Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+68
xeno
Dr.Snufflebug
Serberus
walle83
crod
Broski
ludovicense
11E
ALAMO
Azi
Sprut-B
psg
PhSt
Krepost
Scorpius
OminousSpudd
franco
Singular_Transform
billybatts91
calripson
pavi
ATLASCUB
zorobabel
owais.usmani
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
DerWolf
d_taddei2
Ned86
Odin of Ossetia
Stealthflanker
Sujoy
Airbornewolf
Backman
sepheronx
mnztr
SolidarityWithRussia
VARGR198
Erk
thegopnik
Arrow
SeigSoloyvov
nomadski
LMFS
limb
dionis
Firebird
ucmvulcan
AlfaT8
TMA1
GunshipDemocracy
Werewolf
Isos
PapaDragon
Ispan
Hole
Regular
ArgentinaGuard
Belisarius
Mir
Kiko
caveat emptor
Big_Gazza
GarryB
Arkanghelsk
lyle6
JohninMK
flamming_python
kvs
72 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Werewolf
    Werewolf


    Posts : 5913
    Points : 6102
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Werewolf Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:24 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    I agree. I hope that war won't take longer than a year or, at most, 18 months. They can put that money to better use.

    Time is relative but victory is certain.

    The slower it goes the more time Russia has to kill all those who want to fight against Russia, more time where pro-western ukrops are voluntary leaving to the West, which will make referendums to join Russia even more glorious.

    More time to carry out denazification in the civilian population as there are still to many Nazis who did not pick up arms, but are dangerous to our society. Denazification needs to be carried out until the Ukropian mindset its gone.

    GarryB, psg, kvs, PapaDragon, Sprut-B, LMFS, Hole and like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3570
    Points : 3576
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:03 pm

    Quick Analysis of the Russian attack on the ammunition depot in Nikolaev, last night — as claimed by Russia.

    According to the trajectory that we’re seeing, it appears that Russia used the 9M542 high-precision 300-mm rocket-propelled munition for the Tornado-S MLRS. The 9M542 corrects its own flight path mid flight and sports a range of 120 kilometres. The 9M542 missile as well as the 549 & 544 versions— are direct analogues to Ukraine’s HIMARS with accuracy while delivering more explosive power.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Img_2142

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, PapaDragon, zardof, Sprut-B, Mir and like this post

    ucmvulcan
    ucmvulcan


    Posts : 1061
    Points : 1061
    Join date : 2022-02-26

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  ucmvulcan Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:26 pm

    limb wrote:Whydid the Russian MOD habe no problems with license producing an Israeli drone, but theyre so apprehensive qbout using iranian drones? Is there a jew lobby trying to firce russian soldiers not to use Iranian weapons?

    Why was the Russian MoD also ok with buying canon cameras for the orlan?

    Diplomacy/chess/poker. The SMO is but one very small part of a global game. Yeah, the Ukrainian proxy war is nothing but the newest chapter in the Great Game. Part of the great game is influencing or attempting to influence potential partners in other fronts so you visit your allies and people who are not entirely against you. Sometimes you see the same people as your opponent. Its why when Biden was in Saudi Arabia Putin was meeting with Erdogan and the Ayatollahs. Its why Lavrov dropped in to the G20 summit. Ukraine is but a smaller piece of a much larger game that is very nuanced and complex.

    GarryB, kvs, Hole, Broski and Urluber like this post

    avatar
    limb


    Posts : 1550
    Points : 1576
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  limb Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:46 pm

    ucmvulcan wrote:
    limb wrote:Whydid the Russian MOD habe no problems with license producing an Israeli drone, but theyre so apprehensive qbout using iranian drones? Is there a jew lobby trying to firce russian soldiers not to use Iranian weapons?

    Why was the Russian MoD also ok with buying canon cameras for the orlan?

    Diplomacy/chess/poker.  The SMO is but one very small part of a global game.  Yeah, the Ukrainian proxy war is nothing but the newest chapter in the Great Game.  Part of the great game is influencing or attempting to influence potential partners in other fronts so you visit your allies and people who are not entirely against you.  Sometimes you see the same people as your opponent.  Its why when Biden was in Saudi Arabia Putin was meeting with Erdogan and the Ayatollahs.  Its why Lavrov dropped in to the G20 summit.  Ukraine is but a smaller piece of a much larger game that is very nuanced and complex.

    Bottom line is that russians need moreMALE UCAVs RIGHT THIS MOMENT

    Russian industry can't produce enough MALE UCAVs

    Iran CAN provide MALE UCAVs in large quantities

    Russian lives CAN be saved by having MALE UCAVs right this moment

    More ukrainian equipment can be destroyed with MALE UCAVs, but they dont exist in enough quantity

    Therfore if the MoD refuses to buy more MALE UCAVs even when they're available, the MoD are traitors endangering russian lives and impeding the performance of russian recon.

    nomadski likes this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3570
    Points : 3576
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:48 pm

    There are more than 50 Orions in service

    Where is there a drone shortage

    GarryB likes this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:53 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:There are more than 50 Orions in service

    Where is there a drone shortage
    If that was correct we would see a daily footage of strikes.
    I don't even care that much about strike component but about long range recon. It would help immensely with liquidation of MLRS and SPGs. You solve those and war is over.


    Last edited by caveat emptor on Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3570
    Points : 3576
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:56 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:There are more than 50 Orions in service

    Where is there a drone shortage
    If that was correct we would see a daily footage of strikes.
    I don't even care that much about strike component but about long range recon. It would help immensely with liquidation of MLRS and SPGs. You solved those and war is over.

    There are daily footage of strikes

    Wtf are you watching? And as papadragon said

    It's obvious now, noone in MOD is focused on speed

    They are killing every hohol, that's how it ends

    To kill every last Ukrainian

    A hohol that runs is a nazi hohol

    A hohol who stands is a well disciplined nazi hohol

    This is a body count war , simply

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, Hole, Broski and Belisarius like this post

    avatar
    limb


    Posts : 1550
    Points : 1576
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  limb Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:09 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:There are more than 50 Orions in service

    Where is there a drone shortage

    50 isnt enough for a 1400km frontline with extremely intricate fortifications, optically guided SAMs and mobile rocket launchers shooting and scooting. Russia needs at least 400 MALE UCAVs
    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:10 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    There are daily footage of strikes

    Wtf are you watching? And as papadragon said

    It's obvious now, noone in MOD is focused on speed

    They are killing every hohol, that's how it ends

    To kill every last Ukrainian

    A hohol that runs is a nazi hohol

    A hohol who stands is a well disciplined nazi hohol

    This is a body count war , simply

    Drone strikes. Don't play dumb with me.
    By destroying Ukrainian arty faster, you've destroyed, by far, best component of their army.
    And you reduce further losses of your soldiers and civilians. It's pretty simple.

    limb likes this post

    avatar
    limb


    Posts : 1550
    Points : 1576
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  limb Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:20 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    There are daily footage of strikes

    Wtf are you watching? And as papadragon said

    It's obvious now, noone in MOD is focused on speed

    They are killing every hohol, that's how it ends

    To kill every last Ukrainian

    A hohol that runs is a nazi hohol

    A hohol who stands is a well disciplined nazi hohol

    This is a body count war , simply

    Drone strikes. Don't play dumb with me.
    By destroying Ukrainian arty faster, you've destroyed, by far, best component of their army.
    And you reduce further losses of your soldiers and civilians. It's pretty simple.
    Yes. 500 dead terrbats are worth less than one ploinked krab or pzh2000
    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:23 pm

    limb wrote:
    Yes. 500 dead terrbats are worth less than one ploinked krab or pzh2000

    No, of course not. You need to do both. And thats the whole idea. A lot of equipment gets destroyed in those strikes.

    GarryB likes this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3570
    Points : 3576
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:25 pm

    Ukrainian manpower and artillery are on the line , where MLRS and artillery that Russian army has in thousands combined with Orlan 10 are superior to wasting a MALE drone on a frontline target

    For the rear, the cruise missiles of the VMF and army are much better to deal with those targets that are hundreds of KM away

    Especially the speed of arrival , a kalibr travels 1000km/hr

    No drone can conduct this speed of strike and is easy for Ukrainian AD to shoot down

    Also satellites are better than sending drones to get shot down to recon the rear

    Russian army knows what it's doing , some drones change nothing

    GarryB, Hole, Mir, Broski, Belisarius and ucmvulcan like this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:39 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Ukrainian manpower and artillery are on the line , where MLRS and artillery that Russian army has in thousands combined with Orlan 10 are superior to wasting a MALE drone on a frontline target
    According to your logic they don't even need MALE drones, as it is too risky to use them. I would use them primarily for observation purposes in any case.

    For the rear, the cruise missiles of the VMF and army are much better to deal with those targets that are hundreds of KM away

    I was talking about SPGs and MLRS. Satellites will not help you with those as they are constantly changing positions. More eyes on the battlefield means better results. You can eliminate them via regular arty or MLRS fire.

    Especially the speed of arrival , a kalibr travels 1000km/hr
    That doesn't make any sense in counter-battery fight.

    No drone can conduct this speed of strike and is easy for Ukrainian AD to shoot down
    Another use case where superior recon would do good things. Elimination of BUKs and other AA systems

    Also satellites are better than sending drones to get shot down to recon the rear
    No they are not. And Russia need far more observation satellites, in any case  

    Russian army knows what it's doing , some drones change nothing
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3570
    Points : 3576
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:56 pm

    Again you make no sense, a MALE drone worth millions for counter battery is not economic

    Orlan 10 is better for that role, Ukrainian artillery are not more than 15 km from the front

    In sections where Russian artillery are not present, drones are already used

    You say it would "speed things up"

    But right now it's not about that, is about killing them by the thousands



    GarryB, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Hole, Mir, Broski and Belisarius like this post

    Backman
    Backman


    Posts : 2601
    Points : 2613
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Backman Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:17 am

    caveat emptor wrote:I've expected good news on Iranian drones, but it seems that some people in Russian MIC and MOD really go out of their way to stop that. Pity, as several hundred drones would speed up operation.

    I understand why. Iran is never a good business partner with Russian MiC. They'd rather make copies of the great satan's jets and fly the great satan's old F-14's than hash out a deal with Russia.

    They used Ukraine and Belarus to service their Russian stuff. Always avoiding Russia.

    As soon as the Iran deal passed , they stiffed Russia on the SSJ order and ran as quickly as they could to fill the order books with the great satan and allies. Like buying ATR's instead of SSJ's. They could have bought some SSJ's to just get a business relationship going. But nope.

    To say it's "costing lives" because Iran isn't selling drones to Russia is sensationalist tripe.

    sepheronx, GarryB, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole, Mir, Broski and Arkanghelsk like this post

    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2


    Posts : 2921
    Points : 3095
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland Alba

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:19 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:https://t.me/zastavnyii/926

    Apparently Lavrovs word prompted some followers to suggest that the yellow area will be absorbed

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Img_2141

    Take all of it and get Moldovia on top. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

    Let's test PONOS countries willingness to be the human shield for the US.

    The more Russia takes the weaker NATO gets and the better it's position against China it will be.

    The people of Transnistria and gaugzia have waited decades to be reunited with Russia it will happen. Even if Transnistria troops need to enter Odessa they will. These are large regions in southern Ukraine their time will come. Once Donbass is liberated it pretty much easy pickings for Russia. The only serious threat with be any dirty tactics/ criminal acts by Ukrainian troops.

    GarryB, flamming_python, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, LMFS and like this post

    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2


    Posts : 2921
    Points : 3095
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland Alba

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:22 am

    VARGR198 wrote:

    And while they are at it they might as well include Lugansk, Kherson, and south Ossetia and Abkhazia. Especially while Russia has maximum sanctions it's not as if the west can apply any further sanctions really. Just an added bonus to piss off the west.

    GarryB, flamming_python, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole and like this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:22 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    You say it would "speed things up"

    But right now it's not about that, is about killing them by the thousands

    Why? You can't do both at the same time? You're ok with losing more Russian soldiers than it is needed?
    Every single one Russian military correspondent on the ground says that there's no enough drones. As i said before, these people don't talk out of their ass. They talk with officers every day and are given information to show what shortcomings are. Sladkov and Poddubny didn't meet with Putin without a reason. Some people noticed where the problem lies. But, you know that already. You read Russian tg channels.
    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:26 am

    Backman wrote:
    I understand why. Iran is never a good business partner with Russian MiC. They'd rather make copies of the great satan's jets and fly the great satan's old F-14's than hash out a deal with Russia.

    They used Ukraine and Belarus to service their Russian stuff. Always avoiding Russia.

    As soon as the Iran deal passed , they stiffed Russia on the SSJ order and ran as quickly as they could to fill the order books with the great satan and allies. Like buying ATR's instead of SSJ's. They could have bought some SSJ's to just get a business relationship going. But nope.

    To say it's "costing lives" because Iran isn't selling drones to Russia is sensationalist tripe.
    It's not like Russia didn't vote for and upheld UN's weapons embargo. Directions are obviously changing and new winds are blowing.
    I wouldn't be for purchase of Iranian drones if there was no war. Let Russian MIC figure it out. But, these are extraordinary times. There's war going on.

    Broski likes this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13262
    Points : 13304
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:38 am


    https://argumenti.ru/army/2022/07/781392

    ...The Russian army regularly strikes targets in Ukraine with quasi-ballistic, aeroballistic or cruise missiles of operational-tactical, medium and long range, sea, land and air based. The enemy is still waiting for them to run out, but this will never happen - the industry has already reached such a rate of production that it covered the mass consumption of missiles and various guided munitions since the first days of the SMO. Now their production exceeds the daily consumption. That is, the stocks of these weapons, on the contrary, are growing....



    http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/a-short-note-about-mobilization-and-math.html

    ...The astonishing number of cruise missiles Russia expended since the start of SMO, which started to circulate recently in Western media, of around 2,500 is already more than the number of Tomahawks the United States spent in all of her military campaigns combined in the 20th and 21st centuries...



    GarryB, flamming_python, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, Sprut-B, LMFS, owais.usmani and like this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1776
    Points : 1776
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:41 am

    They hired more workers in Saturn and work in three shifts. Just keep them coming.

    Werewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, LMFS, owais.usmani, Broski and like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14610
    Points : 14745
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  JohninMK Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:42 am

    On the receiving end

    GarryB, Firebird, Big_Gazza, kvs, VARGR198, Sprut-B, LMFS and like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14610
    Points : 14745
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  JohninMK Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:52 am

    Quite some "humanitarian aid warehouse according to Kiev that got hit last night.

    GarryB, Firebird, flamming_python, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs and like this post

    avatar
    DerWolf


    Posts : 204
    Points : 204
    Join date : 2015-12-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  DerWolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:57 am

    What is difficult in producing drones (assuming Russia is struggling in this area), they don’t look too complicated to be produced.

    GarryB likes this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15089
    Points : 15226
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  kvs Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:05 am

    DerWolf wrote:What is difficult in producing drones (assuming Russia is struggling in this area), they don’t look too complicated to be produced.

    The original delay was because Russian government decided that all components should be manufactured in Russia. This is very different
    from most of the other drones including the overhyped Bayraktar which is full of imported components (from Canada, etc.). But this delay
    has not been an issue for years and all the drivel about Russia lacking drones is the same BS as HIMARS, M777, Stingers, etc. being "game
    changers".

    sepheronx, GarryB, psg, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, Sprut-B, LMFS and like this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 10 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:39 am