As part of being abandoned, the trapped Azov have been elevated to hyper hero status by Kiev and its backers who now definitely will not want to see them live.
Finally, why waste more Russian/DNR/LDR/Chechen etc lives than is really necessary?
If it generates surrenders all over the place so much the better, the Russian Army advance west could be almost unopposed. Only slowed down by the sorting out of the bad guys
These guys are guilty of serious crimes... Russia might not want to let them go no matter what they offer.
Russia already has bio weapons labs and all sorts of information from a lot of different sources... I suspect including within HATO itself...
As far as I can tell they are closing down water sources and ventilation shafts and entrances one by one they are not likely losing a lot of soldiers doing that... it is a waiting game and they can be very patient because they are not losing large numbers of soldiers every day like the Orcs are... and they are not obliged to show western audiences progress and keep them entertained like Kiev does if it wants the support to continue.
At the same time M777 arrived on front in East and marks first time that Ukraine has weapon that is far more modern, precise and with longer range than anything they had ever before...
Without its electronics it is pretty ordinary.
They are dumb to call it a special operation and not doing this war the proper way. That's some dumb propaganda move totally useless to try to not be seen as an agressor when in fact it's just a war.
Like the Police action in Vietnam?
Russian losses are also huge. Manpower and hardware. Thry can't afford to continue this way.
Seems they can.
Also coming to the border will force Russia to keep 20 battalions on their side in order to secure Belgorod and thus will have impact on number of Russian forces deployed in Ukraine too.
The Russians have a large force of soldiers on their own territory... don't you remember western countries complaining about it before the war started?
Even if Russia did seize an M777 and even if they are of limited value, I would say the fact they made it to the front is a failure. Honestly, if each gun kills 10 Russians before its is destroyed or runs out of ammo or breaks, that is 1000 dead. If a large, bulky item like an M777 can get to the front so quickly all I can say is W T F in regards to Russias interterdiction or lack thereoff. I have been harping on this for a while, and now the failure in this vital area is really going to hurt. If they cannot interdict these guns on predictable rails and roads, then I have reduced confidence in their ability to destory them in the field.
They are not just hunting troops in the field, they are also hunting those providing target data which do nothing if nothing makes it to the front line...
Losses are huge for Russia. Just look at the losses of the paratroopers around Kiev. Plenty of deads and vehicles desteoyed. They were their best troops. Tank losses are also big just like their naval losses.
Even if they were 100K... they are necessary. The losses of paratroopers around Kiev were made up... we were told they were encircled and wiped out several times and yet they kept holding that airfield till forces came from Belarus and relieved them.
These forces are VDV and the probing forces that move ahead of Russian tank and motor rifle divisions in normal war... they don't have that many tanks to be realistic, and claims of their losses have been massively exaggerated.
I get what Isos is saying and I've expressed my own opinion on it
But ultimately we don't make decisions
Russian MOD and Leadership do
They feel this is the way to proceed , and they do
The losses from the western front of WWI were shocking because there had not been a war before then where both sides had artillery and machine guns and so the results were devastating... to a degree this should be the same... this is not a super power taking on some third world weakling... this is Russia taking on the west... were you expecting anything different?
To some degree, they keep seeing the state as a whole as the brotherly people
Noone will change the opinion on it
Just the Russians being more human than the west is.
My worry about continuing by the special operation instead of war is that somebody is thinking the "negative" (meaning the sanctions and forcing Russia out of every sphere the west has control over, be it sports or eurovision song contest) effects on Russia could be reversed. That someone is thinking if we go soft they will forgive.
I suspect launching this operation Putin realised all chances of cooperation with the west are over... I suspect these is no expectation of returning to civil... McDonalds is not coming back... Russia needs to look to the rest of the world for trade and growth and development... and there is enormous potential there..
Most of the 5th columnists are gone...
Why don't we see the X-58U missile used in the VKS fr SEAD. It's superior to the X-31, with a speed of mach 4.5 instead of Mach 3 and 250km range instead of 110km.
The Kh-58 is optimised for high altitude launch and as mentioned in that article posted these missiles are being launched from low altitude where the ramjet engine of the Kh-31 is vastly superior to the solid rocket motor of the Kh-58 in any version.
At low altitude the Kh-58 has a much shorter range because it cannot accelerate to as high a speed as it can at altitude... the 250km range is launched from a MiG-31BM or MiG-25 at supersonic speed and high altitude, or an Su-24 above 10km altitude and at speeds above mach 2.
IMO americans are glad that Turkey says no. They pushed too much in Ukraine and Russia will respond to any future move so they must be aware that Russia will nuke those countries even if it says the opposite.
I suspect some are, but many want to isolate and contain Russia... but then they will likely be happy with the fact that they want to join, which is probably enough... and it further isolates Turkey who they seem to have taken a dislike to as well.
I'm not sure if it is a good decision to take whole Ukraine. Better option, imo, would be to incorporate friendly regions in the east and south into Russia and leave rest with some sort of friendly regime. Just clear them up of extremists. New Ukraine would be a 20-25 million country, cut of from Black Sea and with most of natural resources lost.
I agree... trying to take the nazified west of the country which is where the nazis are coming from is a waste of time and effort... when they have the territory they want they can then hammer the political parties they don't like with cruise missiles and take out the existing Rada as well as the current leadership with which no agreements are really possible anyway. Let them vote in their own replacement government with pro Russian parties allowed and pro US parties in prison and let them choose between pro Russia or neutral.
If they think they can suck up to the west when the smoke has cleared then calibrate them... but this time an economic attack on power and sewerage and bridges and rail lines and pipelines and political party HQs.
I wonder how hard will boys in DC start twisting Sultan's elbows and what he will decide in the end...
He has flip flopped before... but I think Putin knows relations with the west are over now so sweden and finland in HATO or sweden and finland just cooperating with HATO without the badge... not a huge amount of difference... still hostile countries.
Whats stopping the russians from jamming control signals of Ukrainian light UAVs? It seems like the russians haven't used absolutely any EW, apart from demining operations. Are they paranoid that NATO will recieve their EW frequencies? Why is it so important that NATO surveillance doesn't recieve Russian EW signals?
I would expect their own drones operate on the same frequency ranges so jamming everything would be a pain in the arse.
First variant of kh-31 which must be the one used in this conflict have a basic range of 110km.
All versions are rocket ramjet powered and are therefore rather more efficient at low altitude and low altitude launches than solid rocket motor missiles like Kh-58.
The thing is if M-777s are getting through, who knows how much light arms, food, thermal imagers, quadcopters and ATGMs are getting to the Frontline?
But then without these things they will just hide behind civilians and be impossible to kill.
The M-777 has good range but is otherwise much worse than any soviet system because it is slow to set up and take down.... in a guerilla situation where the enemy have air superiority who gives a **** how far it will throw a shell if it gets spotted setting up and destroyed.
We haven't had a couple destroyed.... they were captured which meant the Russians attacked them and the troops using it either ran away or were turned into a red mist.
For it to be effective they need to receive target information which means radio communications from multiple locations... observers on the front line, HQs, and the battery itself... all of which can be used to find all three and more...
What are they going to move it around the battlefield with? and what is going to power it... how many electric motor bikes does it take to move a 5 ton gun and ammo?
Also I'm particularly worried about the truck launched brimstone. In the spur of the moment, Ukrainians have Access to a surface to surface missile class that Russians don't have. The Hermes still isn't being used by the Russians, while brimstone salvors are being launched.
A missile that can't see paint and will likely end up hitting **** all.
M777 without ballistic computers, with no Excaliburs, are no better than anything Ukraine already has and it also creates a logistics nightmare for them, I don't see why there is a big wank show regards them. I would be worried about Brimstone and even then it's Wunderwaffe and basically won't shape the battlefield no matter how effective or not it is.
They are important because they are for sale and they are very expensive so they better be amazing.... fortunately for the US MIC and the British MIC reality has nothing to do with it and the Russian forces being destroyed are mostly being destroyed by M777 and Brimstone and Javelin and Cokecola... (they are sponsoring the war too so they have to get a mention).
Ukrainian advances are not coming without the costs and it does expose Ukraine as well, logistics are the king here, Russia at the moment keeps their chain short and controlled, what about UA side?
Ukrainian forces moving forward exposes their logistics to easy attack too...
Why is Russia losing ground to Ukrop NATzO Nazis?
They are not losing ground... the Orcs are not pushing the Russians back... the Russians are moving to different positions and the Orcs are moving forward to the empty places they are leaving... sometimes getting attacked or being counter attacked and sometimes not.
Why is Pukraine still able to resist?
They are a head and torso strapped down on a bed with their arms and legs gone and their eyes missing with HATO whispering in their ears that Russia is almost broken if you can just hang on a few more weeks you will break them... Russia is sitting in the corner with a dressing on their big toe on their left foot wondering why HATO hates Ukraine and Russia so much.
Why is Russia still hesitating to unleash all firepower to turn Pukraine into a sea of fire? Just Kill Everyone! Mission Accomplished.
Because what you suggest is a myth... it is bullshit... it is why the Soviets lost in Afghanistan, and why the west lost in Afghanistan and Vietnam and Cuba etc etc.
We aren't seeing decisive battles or the ukrops getting destroyed there.
Also this month we don't see almost any Russian drone footage of Ukrainian counter battery fire destroying Ukrainian artillery. Why is that.
Maybe they don't want the Orcs and the west to change tactics... imagine if Zelensky suddenly said unconditional surrender we agree to all terms... when the job is only half done...
More likely a glass cup... the glass cup would break on impact and release the grenade with its pin already removed... a few seconds later boom.
Russia doesn't have enough firepower committed to carry out operation of annihilation. I mean, look at how many assets are needed to kill troops that outnumber you?
The Russians have enough troops in place to do what they are currently doing. When that is done then the next phase starts and more troops can be sent in when needed.
So you're calling for genocide?
Russia can't waste money for years, and it can't allow the Ukrainians to calmy bombard and terrorize the Belgorod oblast.
To be fair it is what most Orcs signed up to do to Russians... even the ones that are Ukrainian and live in the Donbass and Lugansk.
There used to be a fear that Russia would march on Berlin shortly.
Stupid Euro sheep... Russia wanting to invade europe is a fairy tale the americans tell you so you will play with them and not with the mean nasty Russians.
But tell me... if those evil Russians want to kill you why were they selling you cheap gas?
Why are the spending money in ice breakers and improving their rail network to improve trade links between Asia and Europe and helping China with other trade routes to Europe to save money and make delivery quicker and safer?
Why has Putin called the Euro leaders partners and talk about cooperation and a shared economic zone from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
They have only tried to be nice and you ass holes pissed all over them.
Well HATO is getting Finland and Sweden for Xmas... and the price of energy is going to skyrocket in europe and plummet in Asia... but Russian gas is about more than just energy and electricity... there are a lot of industries that rely on gas for all sorts of things... Germany is going to be screwed... by the US... but the eurofags will blame Putin.
The loss of the battle of Kharkov indicates Russia is ruled by morons. "It's a feint," they say.
Feints are followed by advances. What was the purpose of the feint around Kiev or Kharkov? Russia gave up a suburb of 100k for a village of 2k? Lol
You don't understand their moves... the Orcs don't either... we will see how it works out shall we?
I agree about the Russian army being humiliated.
Western cocksuckers who thought all Russians are evil and the only good Russian is a dead Russian, now believe the Russians are not very good soldiers because they saw it on Twitter and Face book... let them believe that... that is OK.
If they realised how bad the Orcs were losing they might try to help more or perhaps even try to do things differently...
It seems like china will probably stray away from Russia and follow western demands because they view Russia as a paper tiger for not being able to take a country with the economy of Gambia.
Hahaha... yes western attempts to separate Russia from China continue to fail, and western measures of economy appear to be distorted to the point of being absurd.
This country with the economy of Gambia is supported by the G7... which is the 0.8 trillion a year US and its probably half trillion per year remaining US sychophants... and a small force that is a fraction of the size of the Ukrainian army is carving the country up and rending its armed forces and there is nothing HATO can do except proclaim victory and an endless war...
Salty tears are so salty...
Yeah it's not really more capable than the MSTA save for reduced weight.
And likely more expensive too.
So while social media dissects, disperses, and regurgitates historical Russian "losses", the endless gigabytes of footage that appears daily showing Ukrainian annihilation is quietly swept under the mat.
Not to mention historical footage of losses claimed to be Russian forces later prove to be orc forces instead...
But shout the lies and whisper the corrections later when they no longer matter because it has already been proven that they don't know what they are doing.
Finland and Sweden have proud military histories... not an accident both are rushing to join HATO without referendums or discussions... not very democratic really...
How is it childish to ask how a military with renowned fortress busting weapons can't rapidly obliterate WW1 bunkers and which presents taking villages as massive successes?
Yes... WWI bunkers were easy to defeat... just a childs fire cracker is all that is needed... that four year stalemate for European countries with artillery up the ying yang was just made up... bunkers and trenches are easy peasy...
[quote]You'd expect bunkers to be a trifle to deal with for an army with thermobaric weapons and hundreds of 152mm artillery.[/quoet]
You might want to check out the types of artillery they had in WWI... not the same range or accuracy of 152mm but in terms of HE power...
In 1944, soviets we're destroying bunkers just fine with ISU-152s, yet now some bunkers and some trenches take 4monthsbor more to take while being bombarded with 240mm and 203mm shells and people here are pretending like these fortifications are the Maginot line x100.
The Maginot line was a massive success. ISU-152s did not destroy trenches and bunkers... infantry were used to fight their way through trenches while ISU-152s provided support. You do understand that WWII trenches and bunkers also had artillery and tanks supporting them too.
No, he's just too into his WH40K
Killng Ukrainians in the Ukraine has been accepted and brushed under the carpet for the last 8 years and has been totally acceptable... what has changed?
It is now Russians doing it instead of Kiev, but the results are the same... except they are not... what Russia is doing is necessary... and long overdue... and will be beneficial for both sides.
Ukro regime are propagandists to their last breath. Now they're calling a march of the Azovites into captivity as an 'evacuation'.
That is the perfect term because I can't think of any english term more suitable... a bowel evacuation is exactly what it is in every respect.
They should be very well rescued in prison in DOneck I guess
They retain breathing rights which is more than their victims ever had the chance for...
It has more range then at MSTA, but its not self propelled so its vulnerable to counter battery fire. Its not magic, but a howitzer is a powerful weapon when used well.
It lacks any armour and requires trucks to move it and its ammo and if it opens fire will reveal its location to an enemy that rules the skies and has plenty of artillery itself.
Not quick to set up and not quick to take down so run away and leave it or die...
Looks like the 2s7 hell cannon uses one piece ammo … if these are the empty propellant casings.
No, the projectile is separate and weighs about 120kgs each, while the shell cases can have variable propellent loads depending on the range to the target.
For shorter range work lighter propellent loads lower the velocity of the round so it comes in nearer to vertical for more effective use of the shell fragments.
Ukraine is the enemy so you need to kill their troops but don't label every single Ukrainian has something they aren't
Would Americas meat shields be more appropriate?
This is war.... Russia didn't create this situation and they need to make sure they fix the problem in a way that solves it rather than a band aid solution.
Killing them till they give up is not their first choice... I am sure they would have preferred the Minsk agreements to be followed and respect for human life shown.... but here we are.
I think the BMP-3 needs an upgrade. I saw more than one with its turret blown out. It has no armor and the ammo carousel gets easily detonated.
Of course it could use an upgrade but a still image is not useful... most of the time turrets get blown off it is often after several minutes of the vehicle burning before the flames get hot enough and the crew and troops are normally gone by that stage.
It's a numbers game. There are millions of Ukrainians who can be combat trained and be used in a nearly endless meat grinder, until the Russian economy starts to suffer from constant war expenditure
Because China really had an enormous numbers advantage over both Japan and Vietnam during their conflicts and it didn't really make much difference.
Remind yourself of the Vietnam war. Every day, the US would brag about number of killed viet's, but in the end it was all for nothing because the US forces never cut weapons supplies. Vietnam lost 10% of it's population, but there was never a desire to surrender despite constant Viet losses. The same is happening in Ukraine.
And how many Ukrainians want to die in this war? We understand the countries leadership don't care, but how long will the west allow their best weapons to be shown ineffective?
Maybe when Russia stops making progress their might be issues, but right now everything seems to be going just fine... most weapons seem to be working well and Ukrainian forces are leaving cities and moving out into the open with their new western super weapons...
Except the ones that were bunkered down that could last 1,000 years with food and water and weapons to last forever that are currently surrendering with Zelenskys permission.
Annexation wont solve the NATO encroachment problem, all you are doing is moving your border closer to NATO.
But it does... it makes parts of the Ukraine Russia so HATO can't have them... any alternative HATO will try to get at some stage down the track.
A better solution is to leave Kherson, Zaporozhie, Nikolayev, Odessa, Kharkov regions etc, as independent and neutral.
They can federate, come up with a fancy name, but they need to be a buffer zone between NATO and the Russian Federation.
If they want to but the Baltic States have Belarus as a buffer, but Finland will be HATO so there is going to be a border with HATO no matter what happens...