Russian special military operation in Ukraine #11

flamming_python wrote:...Now there will be another month of "Russky Korabl idi naxuj!" instead of surrendering like a sensible person would

Only idiot would want them to surrender

When they surrender you have to babysit them (because pussyfooting is still order of the day) and eventually release them which creates fuel for another war/insurgency immediately afterwards and sends a message of weakness

What you want is for them to sit where they are and get fucked into extinction and if this Moskva fuckup makes that happen then it was worth losing one half a century old ship

Work smarter not harder

So , all this time the UA could not hit ships with Neptun ? All of a sudden , and just after Boris threatened with anti-ship missile supplies to UA , and just before operation in Donbas , the UA , suddenly makes technological leap ? So , I worry too much and ask too many questions ? And they are all the wrong questions ? Let's prey that it was a UA missile , which I doubt . More like submarine launched Harpoon ? In either case await an overt for ( Ukraine ) or covert for ( USA ) retaliation .

Half measure campaign gets you half measure results.

"Please don't strike Russia proper or we might actually do what any competent invading force should do and that is to strike at the leadership and command and control of the enemy force"....

This is 2022 Russia. The heirs of greats... not so great anymore.

It indeed was the end of history when the Soviet Union fell, seemingly, with all that was left of functional brain power in Russia   .The Roman empire never recovered, neither did the Spanish, the British replaced by the Americans etc... it's almost destined.

For an existential fight there sure are a lot of if and buts.....the we mean it but not really. Meanwhile the other side clearly means it and you can tell by deeds and words and much more.

Since London appears to be off-limits, and Cyprus is also clamping down.... it appears Israel is the new favorite destination of Russians.  

It's unfortunate and sad but at the same time sort of funny to see an ethnic group struggle and fumble so much with their professed enemies. I guess from a psychological point of view since this fight was more or less imposed on Russia you could rationalize something of inconsequence. Take enough cracks at it slowly, but continuously and eventually it will crack... the anglo's have been working Russia well for quite a century + now. They've achieved much more progress than in previous centuries combined.

What's clear is that Russia has a long way to go before they bury and put the anglo's to rest, much less create an alternative world order that ensures Russia's survival and prosperity.

What is also clear is that people will never get tired of damage controlling, and creating false narratives to suit their bubble. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch for sure - everyone fights it.

Everything is going according to plan. So much so Dear Leader just admitted that what was agreed to in Istanbul was broken apart by Kiev as soon as the words vanished from thin air. There is a definition for any man that takes pride in espousing often how he's cheated and toyed with by his enemies - a masochist with stockholm syndrome. "We had a deal, next thing you know, the next day, Yanukovich is out of power" "Not an inch East".... "we had a deal in Istanbul but now everything is deadlocked"....     Never send a Russian to do a deal, you'll regret it for eternity. Anybody else, anyone, but not a Russian. Outsource deal making.

With that said, Russians obviously have to believe that all of this is BS, for if it were true, the pessimism would be so big, depression will set it. So the brain will do what it does... turn on that defense mechanism to protect itself.

Screw it

There's still a war to win

The loss will have to be taken in stride. Carry on working

Agreed. It is an embarrassing blow and heads should roll. Sorry to you ruskies out there I hope this just firms up your resolve. I just heard that essentially the Ukrainian military is controlled top down by US military and has been for awhile. Anyone with eyes to see must see that this cannot stand.

Edit: phone posting I hate it

There is only one fast solution in terms of large surface ships for Russia and that is to forget about pride and to order Chinese Type 052D destroyers.

It took them this long to fire off Neptune missiles? Does not make sense. The MOD story is more likely and it was
a detonation of munitions on the ship. Maybe there was a sabotage unit that managed to get onboard the ship.

It seems (Z)elensky is getting cocky with the showering of trash from his owners. Watch for NATzO to start bleating
about negotiations soon.

ATLASCUB wrote:Half measure campaign gets you half measure results.

"Please don't strike Russia proper or we might actually do what any competent invading force should do and that is to strike at the leadership and command and control of the enemy force"....

This is 2022 Russia. The heirs of greats... not so great anymore.

It indeed was the end of history when the Soviet Union fell, seemingly, with all that was left of functional brain power in Russia   .

For an existential fight there sure is a lot of if and buts.....the we mean it but not really....

Meanwhile the other side clearly means it.

It's unfortunate and sad but at the same time sort of funny to see an ethnic group struggle and fumble so much with their professed enemies. I guess from a psychological point of view since this fight was more or less imposed on Russia you could rationalize something of inconsequence.

What's clear is that they have a long way to go before they bury and put the anglo's to rest, much less create an alternative world order that ensures Russia's survival and prosperity.

What is also clear is that people will never get tired of damage controlling, and creating false narratives to suit their bubble. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch for sure.

Everything is going according to plan. So much so Dear Leader just admitted that what was agreed to in Istanbul was broken apart by Kiev as soon as the words vanished from thin air. There is a definition for any man that takes pride in espousing often how he's cheated and toyed with by his enemies - a masochist with stockholm syndrome. "We had a deal, next thing you know, Yanukovich is out of power" "Not an inch East".... "we had a deal in Istanbul but now everything is deadlocked"....    

With that said, Russians obviously have to believe that all of this is BS, for if it were true, the pessimism would be so big, depression will set it. So the brain will do what it does... turn on that defense mechanism to protect itself.

If there is depression then it's only due a lack of understanding of our leadership. Not yet a lack of faith outright. A lack of understanding.

They've bungled all this far further than reasonable. And if they don't say something and explain the situation - then one can only conclude they're way in over their heads. But that's not an acceptable position at a time when Western newspapers are openly gloating around photos of our dead and call for our death. We're in a serious war and it's time for a serious attitude to it. When they're talking about bringing the war to the Crimea - Western governments, not just Kiev - it's time to take it seriously.

And it's out of anyone's hands but Moscow's. Only they can fix it.
The population is behind them I think. But they do have to come up with a better plan. Or are they going to keep pretending that this whole thing is like some limited peacekeeping deployment to Timbuktu or something?

All this encirclement of the Donbass, Mariupol operation is fine. But with the loss of this flagship - it's as if all the lives spent so far are wasted. It's all undone, the last 6 weeks of the war.
And with an escalation on our hands. But one the leadership should have anticipated ahead of time, the enemy even publically made statements. How was this not anticipated. No matter. What next then?

If it was indeed an anti-ship missile, then Russia just got the justification it needed to conquer the whole Ukrainian coastline including Odessa.
They cannot allow Ukraine to be able to take potshots at ships in the Black Sea.
Still, I hope they continue to focus on Donbass operation. This can wait for later.

Stealthflanker wrote:It's a screenshot of a vid here.



and yeah.. Hope this time whoever up there finally got their act together.  It can be anything like storm  or maybe some mines but still a morale boost for Ukraine.

That video is from late January 2019 where 2 Tanzanian ships near Crimea were transferring fuel and a fire broke out.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/21/europe/crimea-ships-kerch-strait-fire-scli-intl/index.html

lancelot wrote:If it was indeed an anti-ship missile, then Russia just got the justification it needed to conquer the whole Ukrainian coastline including Odessa.
They cannot allow Ukraine to be able to take potshots at ships in the Black Sea.
Still, I hope they continue to focus on Donbass operation. This can wait for later.

NATO will be emboldened. Just as they have flooded Ukraine with 10,000+ ATGMs, and as they have been slowly providing heavier and heavier weapons, they will now see this as a reason to provide anti-ship missiles. The UK already said they are sending Harpoons, and Norway is considering sending NSM missiles.

Why shouldn't you be emboldened when you see weakness. Russia is their enemy after all. Destruction or capitulation is their destined fate in their eyes - as it should be.

Just cause the other side says it's not weakness but 5D chess masterful restrain, strategic patience of Sun Tzu or whatever else their creative little loser minds come up with doesn't make it true. It's just spin, for their home crowd and captive audiences and anyone else willing to believe them. Certainly not in the halls of power of their enemy... why should it? It's easy to see through it.

The Americans, the Brits, and the whole EU should make it as bloody and as destructive as humanly possible for Russia. It's competence to do so.

Russia is the one that has to rise to the occasion to all of it and meet them punch for punch. Clearly not happening. Crying about it doesn't solve it now does it. And as is human and animal nature, only the strong survives, doesn't matter if the strong are the worst criminals around... it's what it's. The pack will follow the strong.

zorobabel wrote:

lancelot wrote:If it was indeed an anti-ship missile, then Russia just got the justification it needed to conquer the whole Ukrainian coastline including Odessa.
They cannot allow Ukraine to be able to take potshots at ships in the Black Sea.
Still, I hope they continue to focus on Donbass operation. This can wait for later.

NATO will be emboldened. Just as they have flooded Ukraine with 10,000+ ATGMs, and as they have been slowly providing heavier and heavier weapons, they will now see this as a reason to provide anti-ship missiles. The UK already said they are sending Harpoons, and Norway is considering sending NSM missiles.

Russia needs to be emboldened too to fire a couple of nukes to de-escalate

Ugh
This news about the Moskva really does dampen the mood

And to think I was just enjoying the new nasheed from Kadyrov earlier

The 2014 ISIS vibe you never realized you missed

flamming_python wrote:

PhSt wrote:I propose a massive Kaliber strike on Kiev and major infrastructures housing the Nazi Ukro leadership as punishment for the loss of Moskva.

No, you let your guard down and took a good straight to the face - doesn't mean you lose your composure and exhaust all your energy with a bunch of wild swings and charges.

Put your guard back up, and learn the lesson, quickly, and counter-attack when the opportunity arises.

I do not think so. A massive strike on Kiev annihilating several top NAZI NATzO proxies will send a clear message that Russia is prepared to escalate to the point of NATzO PIG EXTERMINATION and this is the only kind of message that NATzO PIGS understand.

PhSt wrote:

zorobabel wrote:

lancelot wrote:If it was indeed an anti-ship missile, then Russia just got the justification it needed to conquer the whole Ukrainian coastline including Odessa.
They cannot allow Ukraine to be able to take potshots at ships in the Black Sea.
Still, I hope they continue to focus on Donbass operation. This can wait for later.

NATO will be emboldened. Just as they have flooded Ukraine with 10,000+ ATGMs, and as they have been slowly providing heavier and heavier weapons, they will now see this as a reason to provide anti-ship missiles. The UK already said they are sending Harpoons, and Norway is considering sending NSM missiles.

Russia needs to be emboldened too to fire a couple of nukes to de-escalate

It won't

But Lavrov WILL express concern

How do you like that one eh, Zelensky, Johnson?

Another thing is that mobilization exists only on paper here

In practice no reservists get called up for exercises. I haven't been called up once since finishing service, neither anybody else I know.

Don't know how it will actually be implemented in practice.

One would think if we were gearing up to this big confrontation with NATO, that the procedure would be practiced a little bit.

flamming_python wrote:Ugh
This news about the Moskva really does dampen the mood

Unfortunately, you will have to get used to more incidents like this until Russia decides to escalate this noble struggle to NATzO PIG EXTERMINATION. This is the only way to secure a peaceful future for Russia.

PhSt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

PhSt wrote:I propose a massive Kaliber strike on Kiev and major infrastructures housing the Nazi Ukro leadership as punishment for the loss of Moskva.

No, you let your guard down and took a good straight to the face - doesn't mean you lose your composure and exhaust all your energy with a bunch of wild swings and charges.

Put your guard back up, and learn the lesson, quickly, and counter-attack when the opportunity arises.

I do not think so. A massive strike on Kiev annihilating several top NAZI NATzO proxies will send a clear message that Russia is prepared to escalate to the point of NATzO PIG EXTERMINATION and this is the only kind of message that NATzO PIGS understand.

It's ultimately meant to throw off the Donbass offensive

But it can't go unanswered. I guess it's out of our hands anyway. Higher ups will decide whatever obscure calculation suits them as a reaction.

Information apparently first appeared on a Ukrainian channel that NATO aircraft had noticed that the Moskva is on fire, and relayed that info to the Ukraine. Only then did Kiev release the version where it hit the ship with Neptun missiles

So yeah, could be a drifting mine. Which is still a Ukrainian strike technically. Who knew they'd get this lucky.

zorobabel wrote:I have no idea what Russia is doing at this point.

Than I suggest you listen to Scott Ritter, just put the name Scott Ritter in YouTube.

Scott, like the Saker, The Duran, Pepe, Moon of Germany and the rest of clown car network is letting you hear what you want to hear. Merely filling the void open to be taken to disaffected westerners. Market demand getting satisfied.

Would be very unfortunate and unpleasant for the sheep to find out some of them are assets of MI6/CIA..   . for sure some of the them are SVR assets. The nature of sheeple tho make it possible.. the need to be spoon fed for lack of critical thinking skills about complex geopolitical matters. Thinking for yourself is well... too hard. Mind you since billions upon billions are sheep, it's not anyone's fault.

ATLASCUB wrote:Scott, like the Saker, The Duran, Pepe, Moon of Germany and the rest of clown car network is letting you hear what you want to hear. Merely filling the void open to be taken to disaffected westerners.

Would be very unfortunate and unpleasant for the sheep to find out some of them are assets of MI6/CIA..   . for sure some of the them are SVR assets. The nature of sheeple tho make it possible.. the need to be spoon fed for lack of critical thinking skills about complex geopolitical matters. Thinking for yourself is well... too hard. Mind you since billions upon billions are sheep, it's not anyone's fault.

It's people like that who teach you to think for yourself, and it doesn't matter whose assets they are

By bringing up different arguements and arriving to different conclusions, and in general going into more detail and reasoning than your typical MSM rag or channel.

The more points of view you are exposed to, the more you learn to develop your own

flamming_python wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:Scott, like the Saker, The Duran, Pepe, Moon of Germany and the rest of clown car network is letting you hear what you want to hear. Merely filling the void open to be taken to disaffected westerners.

Would be very unfortunate and unpleasant for the sheep to find out some of them are assets of MI6/CIA..   . for sure some of the them are SVR assets. The nature of sheeple tho make it possible.. the need to be spoon fed for lack of critical thinking skills about complex geopolitical matters. Thinking for yourself is well... too hard. Mind you since billions upon billions are sheep, it's not anyone's fault.

It's people like that who teach you to think for yourself, and it doesn't matter whose assets they are

By bringing up different arguements and arriving to different conclusions, and in general going into more detail and reasoning than your typical MSM rag or channel.

The more points of view you are exposed to, the more you learn to develop your own

I listen to everyone, the western media, alternate media and than I look at the situation on the ground to best I can and than come to conclusions. In Ukraine it is easier because the internet is working and people can upload videos.

The big thing I learned, going back to the 9/11 events and the start of the war on terror, is that the western media is not honest.

Are people like Scott Ritter, The Duran and Pepe honest, not always but in my experience, they are more honest than the western media. They really don't have any incentive to being dishonest, they don't gain anything from being honest. If they wanted to make more money, get a  bigger platform, they can parrot what the western media is saying and they will gain more viewers.

What I learned is that people like Scott Ritter, The Duran and Pepe post analysis that are close to what is happening on the ground.

They are also not CIA/M16 assets because they get censored, Scott Ritter just got banned from Twitter. So when some idiot says that they are CIA/M16 assets, you know that person is a idiot.

Not in disagreement. As I said, they fill a market void.

Those who seek narratives that are not along the more common find refugee in these "analysts". They fit the definition of influencers (propagandists) much more than analysts. At the bottom rung of sheeple kingdom some will undoubtedly "learn from them".... although I would say overwhelming majority are just consumers of info, that is, not necessarily learners. Just drones of a different pov, consuming it, adopting it, thus shaped to think in the manner intended by them. Not really different than those that consume the common garbage - same exploitation of the same human traits. Techniques are still the same more or less, sometimes even more crude and archaic. Highly reactionary too.

Books, history and a trickle of common sense are much much better than what these peddlers offer. But sheep don't got the time, many don't have the means.