Seems like a Ukr helicopter attack on a fuel depot in Belgorod. What an embarrassment.
What are you talking about?
8 years of a peace treaty, time to talk to break away republics to get a deal and avoid bloodshed, but instead of that you let nazis take over your military and your politics, you whore your country out to the west and abuse your own citizens based on what their relations are with your immediate neighbour, and you end up shelling your own people based on the language they speak by tradition... and you talk about embarassment at an enemy mounting an attack?
Jesus Christ smh...I'm losing hope in Russian leadership, how in the hell is something like this even allowed?
Yes, Putin standing on the border should have immediately detected the attack and repelled it of course... just like the US president in charge in 11/9 stopped those attacks on the Pentagon and world trade centre just on his will alone.
Now they can portray it as huge Russian losses during a withdrawal etc.
Who cares what they portray it as being?
Half measure operation nets you half measure results, with, eventually, a half measure political solution.
Yeah, like Kosovo or Afghanistan or Bosnia.... or any HATO operation of the last decade or two... the difference is Russia had no choice, while HATO was trying to boost the income of the 1% as usual.
What logical physical reason is there for Russian AWACS, over the horizon radar, and constant fighter flights, not have detected ukrainian Mi-24s? Dont say IFF, because if youre gonna claim ukrainian and russian aircraft have the same IFF signals, then either you are retarded or the russian military is retarded.
Could russian air defence detect low flying cruise missiles if they couldnt detect a couple of ukrainian helicopters?
Also what happened to russian SHORADs?
It is a single fuel depot mate... get over it... the amount of air traffic going in and coming out of the Ukraine every hour, a few helicopters flying very low are always going to be a problem for any air defence force.... I suspect the bases they operated from will be triangulated and then calibrated, but nothing is 100% air tight.
Russia would never stop everything coming from HATO forces, but being free to obliterate everything that attacked them would make wearing down HATO rather easier than wearing down a neighbour they have to continue to live with.
Someone from Belgorod reports that fighters were buzzing their city all throughout the campaign and keeping airspace locked down
Apart from the early morning of the strikes.
Strange.
However it's easy to understand how it can be a genuine fk-up. The relief of that area is very hilly, and from Ukrainian lines its only 40km. Fighter jet cover can be assessed by NATO radars. And Russian anti-air may have reservations over shooting as there are plenty of Russian helicopters returning from missions.
The Ukrainians could simply have chosen the right window, sent the helicopters in flying low, and then got out.
The real goal of this attack might be to try and make Russian fighter pilots trigger happy and start shooting down their own helicopters and drones... I am sure those bitching now will be pleased if that happens and will go full retard about how stupid the Russian air defence is...
I was thinking the same. They use the same helicopters as russians and at low altitude IFF systems may have hard times.
If they go weapons free on things near the ground moving at 80km/h and start firing missiles at cars or boats then people will go apeshit about that too...
KREMLIN SAYS UKRAINIAN STRIKE ON RUSSIAN FUEL DEPOT INSIDE RUSSIA DOES NOT CREATE COMFORTABLE CONDITIONS TO CONTINUE PEACE TALKS
That is actually a good negotiation tactic when you don't want an agreement and just want to keep killing nazis and destroying their military.
If Kiev wants a peace agreement... which I actually rather doubt to be honest, it makes sense for Russia to add things like attacking Russian targets or getting support for the EU or HATO countries into the situation to limit those if they want to sign a peace agreement.
Adding such things ties their hands more... I am sure there are plenty in the US who think the Orcs should start terrorist attacks across Russia like the Chechens were encouraged to do when the west supported their mutinous actions...
Stopping talks because of attacks on Russia is a good political way of delaying talks so the job of destroying Orc forces near Donbass and Lugansk and elsewhere in the country can continue.
Turning on themselves?
Possibly generals who are not hard core nazis thinking losing men in an unwinnable war is a waste of men, while politicians who don't give a shit about anything and getting instructions from the west thinking that is unpatriotic for generals to care more about their men than about their political leadership...
Or possibly hard core nazis the politicians are slowly getting rid of so they can get a political solution without nazi generals murdering them for dealing with the Russians...
Who knows.
But you can't trust Zelensky anyway so it doesn't matter.
Then they destroy our fuel depot
"OH but it was civilian"
They didn't destroy anything... a transport boat was set on fire and had ammo on board so it was scuttled to prevent it being destroyed in an explosion... it can have the ammo that is now not burning removed and be refloated and unloaded and sorted out and be back in operation in a couple of months.
With the fuel depot... do you understand how many thousands there probably are on the border between the Ukraine and Russia, and having one damaged with unguided rockets from helicopters is hardly the end of the world.
We're making false equivalence defending this embarassing shit
Imagine they screw your mother, "I am not comfortable with this"
"At least they didn't screw her hard"
Ffs this makes me pissed off , bunch of clowns
You have the nazis by the balls and are in the process of selectively screening them and separating them from the idiots so they can be suitably dealt with but a few lucky hits and you are squealing... and of course it is all Putins fault.
That is the symptom of a fuckwit.... it is all Putins fault.
Honestly... grow up.
You think a war can be fought and only the bad people die and no one else gets hurt... the only way that happens is when the west fights... everyone who dies is a terrorist.... even the unborn children... every death every building destroyed is an enemy terrorist inside a fortress of evil. It is why the west so loves war as a tool because the good guys always win and only bad guys die because they never see the truth, well Putin doesn't pick war as his first option because he has a better understanding of war than idiots in the west.
War is bloody and destructive, and if it isn't then it isn't a war.
Man up or STFU.
Without Putin you would have Medvedev and he would not be doing any better.... by now Kiev would have invaded the Donbass and Crimea and they would have had the first strikes and when Russia responded they would be squealing for international peacekeepers... how would that have worked out?
I doubt it could possibly have been better because they could have targeted Russian ships approaching their coast with anti ship missiles... what if they lost some ships with naval infantry on board?
The west wants Russia dead... this is your only response... live with it.
Did you think you could invade the Ukraine and they would not fight back?
Do you think they could invade the Crimea and Russia would not fight back?
Russia will win the war. But like I said Armenia is lost.
Armenia didn't do shit to help NK and turned to the west, who stabbed them in the back helping the Azeris with AWACS support to attack NK... what the **** could Russia do other than what it has done?
If Armenia wont help Armenians in NK what is Russia supposed to do... and if Armenians want the wests cock to suck, why would Russia do anything at all... if Armenia wants to be raped by Azeribaijan then why should Russia do anything at all?
What the rest of the world will learn is that Georgia and Ukraine and Armenia got screwed when they turned to the west for support... and add Saddam and Libya and Syria and Iran for that matter.
It is not Russias job to protect any country from the west, countries are not children... if Armenia doesn't give a **** about NK and thinks the west will help them more than Russia will then that is their choice... if the people of Armenia don't want that, well vote those bastards out and get politicians who care about them and their needs instead of the foreign bank accounts and the bribes they are likely getting from the CIA.
It is not Russias job to fix them and their problems.
HOW CAN HE SAY HES NOT COMFORTABLE TALKING TO UKRAINIANS
OF COURSE NOT
He can say he is not comfortable talking to Ukrainians when they attack civilian fuel depots in Russian territory... he might not actually care at all, but why give them a free pass to attack civilian stuff in Russia?
You can say it is hypocritical, but I would say in talks with Kiev... this is a charade... nothing Kiev ever signs is worth anything and drawing it out with such smoke screens makes it look like diplomacy is being used when the real job is being done on the front line.
At the moment of course, they are co-operating with Russia. But if Russia doesn't win decisively against the West. Well.. they'll follow their own interests
And why shouldn't they... but let me ask you... if they flip flop to the west because Russia is taking too long in the Ukraine... why go to the west who have openly failed in Afghanistan and Syria and Libya and Iran in the last decade alone.
Kiev's official accused Moscow of trying to reduce Ukraine to a “destroyed territory” in which “no one would be interested”
That ship has sailed.
Dunno why some are so pissed about the fuel depot I'm Belgorod. That's right at the border of Ukraine. The flying low tactic to avoid Sam's is common practice and Russia did the same. At best, awacs and vlow altitude radar would have picked it up (awacs should now be used more often, LA radar has low range for a reason) but otherwise, it's an effective tactic Russia used as well in Ukraine.
If they had done it with Su-25s or Su-24s they would have been detected because of their flight speed making them obviously military aircraft, but helicopters flying at 50-80km/h could be mistaken for civilian cars on a motorway and would not appear on most look down radar... they would be removed as noise otherwise the radar screens would be full of civilian cars on motorways.
Some here seem to think differently, but it is my opinion this war will last a long time, regardless of what happens in Ukraine. Russia was aware of this since day 0 and has reflected this in every stage. Those who have not realised this are in for a rude awakining down the line.
It will take as long as it will take and the nazis will sacrifice any around them... conscript or civilian to live a little longer... if they don't turn on those nazis themselves... well whatever... this job needs to be done... and done properly.
It's nothing to do with over committing - just the political part of the operation failed, setting up an alternative Ukrainian government. Which actually was plan A.
It made sense to give them a chance to just surrender without bloodshed... just like it made sense to give them two terms of office to impliment the agreements made at Minsk... they had a chance and they chose this... which means Russia offered them a way out that did not involve all this bloodshed and this was their choice.... or should I say their leadership chose this option for the people.
Did the west give the Serbs or the Iraqis or Syrians or Libyans a similar option.... don't think so.
But then the west chose war as the first solution rather than the last... they always do.
The hope of scaring Kiev into negotiations failed
Negotiations with Kiev failed long ago... what is happening now is a smokescreen... even if they agreed to everything right now... how could Russia possibly trust them... and the simple answer is they can't... so appear to be negotiating terms while grinding up their military... and making agreements to feed civilians in towns they want to take...
No they tried a multi-prong attack but it failed due to the lack of forces, so they corrected the error by scaling those troops down.
They chose a multipronged attack to pin most of the Ukraine forces in place near Kiev... if they had just attacked the forces opposing the Donbass they could have rushed up troops to support them and block their retreat of their own forces, taking advantage of their massive superiority in numbers, but with prongs heading towards Odessa and Kiev they had to keep forces spread out while the Russians destroyed armour and fuel and ammo depots throughout their territory.
Now that the cauldrons around the bulk of the Uke army is complete they can finish them off along with any forces Kiev sends to help them out in the open... I hope Russian attack helos have lots of missiles left because they are going to be very busy.
I can agree they will annex those areas, It would be dumb to leave west ukraine alone but if they did I understand why they did it, just it will bite them in the ass later on
The western part of the Ukraine is lost intellectually and morally, but they can keep hammering the shit out of it till it agrees to be neutral and not join Poland or Hungary or EU or HATO.
If you want to see him and his bare ass , watch this video
Thank your for following the forum rules and not posting porn on this site.
Ukraine should have been massively penetrated by the Russian intelligence apparatus, but either it was not done, it was done badly, or it was done correctly but the top leadership chose to ignore the intelligence.
Everyone seems to think Russia is the US... undermining other countries to asymilate them and control them... if there were no nazis or bio weapons or talk of nuclear weapons or invasion and and shelling plans regarding Donbass and Lugansk, this operation would never have happened.
In fact if Ukraine had not cut off trade Russia would have been happily buying Ukrainian products from them too so they could make a good living, but that was not to be.
Why can't the russians simply commit more troops instead of retreating from the kiev area?
What do you think more troops will achieve?
More supply convoys would be needed, meaning more targets for Orcs to attack.
The forces they have in place are already enough to get the job done as long as they are properly supported by air power and artillery.
I am 100% patriot, but Ukraine fucked us , and it's our leadership fault for not committing to this war
They blew up some fuel tanks at a civilian fuel depot for goodness sake... get over it... it would be like the Houthies hitting a petrol station in Saudi Arabia... who would care?
The level of risk was enormous, but the results were pathetic.
In comparison the Argentine pilots who flew in low behind teh radar shadow of the falkland islands and bombed UK ships in the harbour and near the islands with iron bombs were also very brave, very talented, and successful in that they sunk several ships and made the Royal Navy look weak.
Numerous advantage was meant to be countered by air force strikes. However the survivability of ukrainian AD and the fact that they were told to not hurt civilians made all that operation impossible.
If those su-34 were free to use 500kg bombs like in Syria it would have ended in 1 week.
Modern Soviet air defence vehicles are immensely capable with an IADS to support them... take that IADS network away and they are still very dangerous... the western equivalent would be to talk about MANPADS... when the enemy has MANPADS it is not reasonable to talk about destroying them all when they have them in sufficient numbers... SA-13 and TOR and BUK and lots of other vehicles are much bigger than MANPADS but can be hidden fairly easily and you wont know where they are till they are brought out and used... and when they are used or being moved to be used you can sometimes spot them and get them, but there will always be situations where they can be brought out of hiding, used and then hidden again before you can deal with them.... meaning these vehicle based systems will remain problems from start of a conflict to the end... as seen in the Kosovo conflict where 3 months of total air supremacy... how many tanks and SAMs did they take out?
This is a reality of modern war against a Soviet state like enemy... ironically conflict against a HATO power would be much much easier because their concentration of air defence comes in the form of air power which is restricted to airfields and is rather much easier to deal with.
Edit: it's not about destroying all of them because a lot are kept in western or central ukraine. It's about securing the front to allow better air support. If they effectively destroy and hunt the ones on the front ukrainians won't send more because they will understand they will be quickly destroyed and not having them protecting the rear would allow russians to use its airforce everywhere
A reality of war... HATO should have realised in Kosovo that modern mobile air defence systems even with a broken IADS remain a serious threat from day one to the last day of conflict and there is nothing you can do about it.
Air power is going to struggle in a peer war with an ex soviet state of any size... especially when Air power is going to take losses on attack and defence which is going to rapidly deplete numbers and with the price of Typhoons and F-35s and Rafales... how many numbers will they have?
Actually, I think Russia will eventually take Kiev. Kiev has been a Russian city for longer than not. In this case, they can easily declare a new state out of Ukraine and Ukraine can be Lviv area at best. But they are giving time for clearing up everything east and south of Kiev till it is Kiev left. And then it will be decided if the government leaves in peace or be dealt with accordingly.
You have to keep in mind they really don't want the Ukraine, they just don't want it to be a HATO base for bio weapons and nukes for the US to attack them from.
No hard feelings Ark, but if you got such emotions. find purpose for them.
But he has a point.... Ukrainian fuel depots destroyed... military and civilian.... 500... Russian civilian fuel depots hit and still operational.... 1...
Fire Putin and Shoigu and everyone else in power and retreat and call this a huge failure and screw everyones mum.... the west wins.
Why is there no panties in a bunch emoji...
Ukraine denies attacking oil depot in Russia
"The Russian military, however, has said the attack on the civilian facility was launched by two Ukrainian helicopters"
This would be hilarious, if not absolutely macabre
Why would Kiev start telling the truth now?
They already claimed it was the Russians doing it as some sort of false flag attack to escalate... like they need a reason to escalate.
It is the west that uses false flag attacks, not Russia.
I'm forced to agree
It's not acceptable
Everything happens in war. But Russia has the best air defense systems. It has fighters. It should be able to shoot all this shit down, whether Tochkas or Mi-24s
Unless that Belgorod strike is a false-flag. Who's to say.
The result was pathetic for enormous risk... I suspect the intent was to get trigger happy Russian pilots to start shooting down Russian drones and Russian attack helicopters...
If you don't want to be banned on social media but still want to use the letter Z, just rotate it 90 degrees and add a line.
Instead of a Z, you now have the flag of the Azov Battalion - the neo-Nazi militia your government is currently supplying weapons to.
Would rather be banned than use that symbol.
I been here rebutting trolls for days and weeks
But you know what, I can't, because I feel that it looks ridiculous for me to rebutt a troll like sieg if he came out with his bs now
Well I'd have to agree with him
Yes, you have made it clear you are a turncoat coward.... war is not your game... it is not my game either, but with a few years under your belt you recognise what is happening...
Biden is merely an empty suit. So is our congress. The real power in America lies with the Oligarchs, and they use the Pentagon, the CIA, and the media to prop themselves up and they use the parties and "social issues" such as race, homosexuality, sexism, and reproductive issues to give us the illusion of choice but where it matters most, the two parties are indistinguishable.
A two party system makes corruption really easy... just bribe both sides so no matter who gets elected, who controls congress or the senate... you get your laws and ammendments pushed through and continue your monopoly that made you rich in the first place and continue to get richer... you make the money you spend in bribes seem like chump change...
Just for clarity, I do not have hate for westerners even when they follow the fake stream media and attack Russians over Ukraine.
But when it comes to the deciders and the agitators, I have nothing but contempt. They are screwing over everyone including their
own side. We have seen this with how the propaganda orifice mass media in the US has become the enemy of the American people
(same goes for the EU).
If the west actually did what it said on the label... truth and justice, then it would actually be something worth defending but it has been corrupted to lies and revenge and it is worse than most of the so called enemies it creates to justify its defence budget and how many other intelligence services... something like 17 in the US alone... most looking for enemies everywhere...
What's going on around Kiev? Russia is retreating west and east of Kiev really fast. Doesn't look like they try to hold the territory!? What kind of tactic is this???
Do they really think to come back and pay the same death toll of soldiers? Why not defending these areas?
Why discuss tactics on an open forum the Orcs can access?
Several unknown projectiles landed and exploded in Russia’s southern region of Belgorod on Friday, damaging a power line and a residential house. The blasts were heard in the region’s capital city of Belgorod, local governor Vyacheslav Gladkov has said.
A power line and a house... for the love of god... they must be using secret new HATO hypersonic weapon technology that we don't know about... it is not enough to fire Putin now... he must be burned at the stake and have his fingernails cut really really short....
People are mad about this , I don't care about what some Canadian is saying, I care about what Russia is saying
And people are PISSED
Well I understand... it is the end of Russian civilisation as we know it... a fuel tank and a power line... my god... you must be afraid sitting in the dark with no chance to fill your car with fuel for the few hours it will take to put that fire out.... now you know what they went through at Stalingrad and Leningrad during the war... you fucking hero.
Public announcement....i give up on this guy.
I tried, its like talking to an wall.....
Like talking to a Ukrainian...
I have the feeling that other they’ve now limited their objectives. And If they haven’t limited their objectives, by pulling back lots of troops to deal with the donbass cauldron they’ve limited their ability to proceed on other fronts.
By now they have hit most fuel and ammo dumps in the country and have created cauldrons around the forward deployed bulk of the Orc army.
I doubt they wanted to attack Kiev in the first place but having forces there kept a lot of the enormous Kiev army back to defend Kiev and the west of the country in case it was needed to stop an attack on Kiev or Odessa.
Now they have probably cleaned up most of the fuel and ammo sites and so they probably want the rest of the available Orc forces to go to the Donbass and try to break out the bulk of their army... they can hammer them with air power and artillery of all types and massacre them together.... much easier on open terrain than trying to get them inside cities.
Limiting objectives means the war won’t drag out.
Keeping maximalist objectives and not having the men or materiel in theatre to achieve them means the war will drag on
They are not going to take on the Ukrainian armed forces one on one with bayonets... the size and power of the Russian forces means the Orcs wanting to attack them will need to form up in sizeable forces, which can be obliterated with artillery and air power much better than sending in more soldiers to grind them down with small arms fire.
Sending in more troops just means more support convoys to be ambushed... and doesn't help at all.
The only problem I see...no regime change! No denazification! The rest of Ukraine will remain as the most anti-russian state in the world, will join NATO and will be armed to teeth. The historical russian land of Kiev for example is lost...the pearl of medieval Rus
Screw Kiev... it was lost years ago... let it go.
If it joins HATO then Russia will attack it for violating its agreement... they could shell it indefinitely the way Kiev shelled the Donbass...
And the signal as a military superpower to the rest of the world is...Russia is weak and not able to seize the capital of a nearly 3. world state.
The west already thinks that, and the rest of the world doesn't understand why the west is going apeshit because Russia is just doing what the west has been doing the last 30 years.
I'm not trolling...I understand fully the tactic (Creating of Novorossija and Kiev is not part of it!) but from my point it's not the smartest move because the areas were in russian hands...why let something go what you have?! Best solution would be complete surrender of Ukraine...creating of Novorossija and Ukraine as client state in Union with RF.
Considering none of us knows what they plan to do you are speculating and trolling with your unfounded speculations.
I could speculate the bio weapons and nuclear weapons talk from the US and UK suggests Russia should be freeing the south and east of Ukraine from the nazis and push the nazis back to the east of the country where they can glass those cities to dust to remove a clear and present danger to Russia... and what is the west going to do about that.
Arkhangelsk should calm down, but he’s also right that the campaign has shown a great degree of incompetence
When the enemy does not do what you expect or hope they might do that is not incompetence, and to claim it is is stupidity and a serious lack of understanding about what war actually is.
Also the longer they dont take ground, the longer NATO advisors can inspect captured russian armor.
Who cares... just good reason to adopt a next generation of equipment in the next 5 years.
Im concerned about retreating. Retreating from such a weak enemy like AFU should never happen.
They are a small mobile force... they are not retreating... the ground they occupied had no significance other than a place for them to operate in and wait.
Their value is their mobility and moving around the battlefield to fight a much larger force... they don't need to take on and destroy the entire orc army, their job is mobility and pinning down forces so artillery and air power can destroy the enemy...
Biggest giveaway Russia wasn't serious about removing the regime was when, fully capable in the first week window, failed or to correctly phrase it, didn't push to take over Kiev to decapitate the political resistance.
What regime in Kiev... the Ukrainian regime is in Washington and always has been... getting rid of Zelensky is like getting rid of the guard at the door of the largest hotel in Kiev....
Zelensky isn't Russias problem... he is so incompetent it is better if he stays in charge as far as Russia is concerned.
The 6D chess boys were the same who were sure this operation was never going to happen at this scale.
The 6D chess boys didn't realise what real scum you have allied yourself with... doing that to civilians and prisoners... not to mention the bio weapons and nukes from the US and UK... and what else don't we know about... America has really hit the bottom of the barrel and started digging... but later on when your new allies start getting rehoused in the west I am sure it will only make the west stronger and whiter...
As for taking out all the Nazi's and bringing all the big time criminals to justice etc.
All? No... the ones in London and the EU and US are out of reach, but they will get plenty enough... to make it all worth it... hell just the bio weapons labs make it worth it... you probably don't understand the concept of self defence anymore...
But he's also not divulging anything to his own people either, while expecting them to accept the war and all its bad consequences.
Think of it as a good murder mystery... if you know who did it at the start it is not worth watching... and he can't tell you anything without letting the bad guys know it too and that can make things problematic when your enemy knows what you plan to do.
How about accept that the guy who fixed your economy and turned you back into a superpower knows what he is doing, and has people in the military who also know what they are doing.
In nearly every conflict the goals are clear as pure glass but in this conflict i hear such things like "freeing Donbass", "denazification", "regime change" etc. and it change nearly every day...if you hear morons like Medinsky you can fear that russians will die for nothing.
Nukes, nazis, bio weapons labs... three good reasons for them to deal with a direct threat to Russia.
One week ago EVERYONE me included posted that Russian Army is just regrouping and not retreating! And now they retreat and this looks much like a huge strategic defeat.
How far should they spread their forces... one man every kilometre? They are not retreating, they are manouvering to where they are needed.
They are a small force taking on a much bigger force, if you want them to dig in and fight hand to hand with the enemy then you are dumber than you look, their advantage is their mobility and coordination and the fact that they have fuel and ammo, and artillery and air support that is not destroyed every time it fires like theirs.
The way I see it is that Russia should have snipped the problem in the bud far far sooner. Early 2000s. Or crushed Banderism soon after 2014. Infact after the initial Donbass/Odessa/Mariupol atrocities... I wonder why Russia didn't crush a weaker Ukraine army back then. Of course keeping control of the Ukraine would have been harder. But its not exactly easy at the moment. So, to me, these are all mysteries.
Russia should have accepted the Ukrainian offer to keep the Soviet Union intact... but they didn't, so **** the Ukraine... the US has turned it into a weapon specifically pointed at Russia... Russia is in the process of pointing it in a safe direction and removing the bolt and ammo and magazines...
Hey guys...I'm sorry I'm a bit emotional today cry To see the retreat just makes me sad. For me peronal it's not a military miscalculation but a political one. Russia should accept just the fact that it is in war with western world...this should be communicated to people of Russia.
The west has made it clear there is no future for Russia with the west as anything but a colonial slave nation, which Navalny might agree to but Putin will not.
**** the west.
Russia didn't want to start a civil war, yet look what it has on its hands now. The Ukraine is going to turn into Afghanistan at this rate.
It was none of Russias business, Russia had the Crimea back... the rest of the Ukraine wasn't their problem till Kiev made it so these 8 years later.
Kiev had two administrations and 8 years to sort this shit out with talking and they chose the artillery piece... well that has bit them on the ass but now the west loves them so they should be over the moon... they have been claiming they were fighting Russians these last 8 years so NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
Yet they squeal like little bitches.
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