Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:The TB2 flies according to the display and optical height assessment around the 150 to 200m. An S-400, we say at 45km to 80km distance will not see anything. Physikalic not possible.Vann7 wrote:Take a look at this..
the losses of russian army to baykatar drones can't be denied , and this is army that claimed
"air superiority" total control in the first day and that "disable ukraine air defenses" just in the first day.
The images confirm what many have been saying , but ignored by fanboys in the forum ,
and is that the Russia army is not yet prepared to fight a modern war against an enemy with
strong air support . Because if the Russian military can't properly defend their own army ,
right next to the russian borders ,where Russia have access to the entire air power.. then imagine
how much worse it will be for Russia military if it had to fight far from its borders, or perhaps if the country it had to invade was fully armed by NATO and Israel.
-Zero electronic warfare used to blind the remote controlled baycatar drones.
-Zero mobile air defenses protecting their major troops formations.
-Zero anti air artillery taking down those drones .
- Those drones need to take off from airports runways.. why those airports don't properly destroyed?
And this is ukraine a third world nation ,that is only armed by another third country like turkey ,that their drones they manufacture with NATO parts.
Imagine how much worse this will have been , if Russia was fighting in Serbia ,under attack by NATO ,that have NATO airbases near? if it was fighting in Israel?
Russia is a second grade military today ,when it comes to modern warfare ,
i have no doubts today , that had Russia had no nuclear weapons , and had no way to deter enemies from attacking them directly, it will have been completely destroyed its military in ukraine by any NATO major power with US unlimited aid of drones and modern weapons. All those stupid era soviet artillery duels tactics ,that russia love to show all the time " as how powerful they are" will have been
totally useless ,if Russia can't properly defend its airspace.
Only russia nuclear deterrence is what prevents NATO from destroying Russia military bases, ,because all those s-400s ,that supposedly cover ukraine airspace performance vs baykatar drones have been mediocre to say the least. since the russian army convoys are taking a lot of hits right next to belarus border ,which russia s-300s and s-400 can reach easily.
So far hopefully this war will show the incompetent Russia government and russian army ,that they are not well prepared at all , not even close to fight a real war ,against a much more stronger army ,
as it will be japan for example , or israel , or UK , France or US. so keep celebrating those s-400s junk , not good enough.. Russia is losing buks defenses like there is no tomorrow. and will lose those s-400s too , if they were located in ukraine , no question about it.
Lets see what will happen to russian army, once those israeli drones start showing up targeting
russian convoys , i can forsee a major disaster for russia in ukraine. if the russian military don't start
properly providing air cover to the russian army. Because so far , doesn't look at all ,that Russia after 2 weeks of fights ,have complete control of ukraine airspace. not even close.. it can be hammered
from time to time its military , with the very weak defense capabilities of russia vs drone attacks in ukraine and s-400s and s-300s deployed near the battles zones in russian border.
i think is time for russian military to start moving to lethal energy weapons that fry electronics in combination with modern anti air artillery like the ones germany have.
Ukraine airspace is on russian borders, and is fully under reach of russia s-300s and s-400s,
and buks defense.. why those shitty airdefenses not stopping those drones from flying?
what is the excuses now for russian army? 8 years preparations for war against ukraine was not
good enough? they knew ,the high possibility that russian army will had to invade ukraine.
they knew how dangerous were those baykatar drones of turkey, and how many russian hardware
Russia military lost in syria, then later in armenian war , so what is the excuse now?
so far is showing major weakness ,pretty poor performance vs modern warfare.
Russia is strong only vs stalingrad like world war 2 battles , that wars are won by armor
and artillery and tanks and soldiers on foot fighting . but in modern warfare , when enemy airforce
and drones capability ,is very capable , russia military performance downgrade to the level of iran.
This is very serious , because NATO is watching this , is paying attention to this , the west now knows Russia is very weak ,vs drones attacks and loitering munition, not well prepared for a sustained defense against it. and now there is no excuse people that used in the forum , as they did in the armenian conflict.. "russian army not there fighting"
Now is the russian army fighting . stop defending what can't be defended..
russian army was sent to ukraine ill prepared ,fact , to properly defend its military from a modern air war. now all those that told "russian army is not there fighting" in the armenian conflict ,will need to eat their words.. now is the russian army being smashed ,just like turkey did it in armenia with their drones. and i don't think ,that this major problems can be fixed by just sending more buks to ukraine.. the tactics are simply wrong.. Russia needs to go back to the drawing board and develop something new for a sustained air protection and defenses for the russian military. Because those shitty s-400s, and s-300s that covers all ukraine airspace don't work at all. and neither those mobile air defenses working that well either.
if there is something positive in all this ,is that now everyone will stop worshipping those obsolete russian airdefenses s-400s ,s-300s , buks ,tors, not providing proper air cover to the russian convoys near belarus borders. and russia military will need to radically change its tactics ,to protect its military convoys and military defended bases too ,when facing a modern war.
There is no point in russia building any surface warship if it can't even protect its own soldiers in land , right next to its borders in a modern war.. they need to invest heavily instead 10x times more in modernizing its airforce and military for future modern wars, that will rarely use tanks or artillery and will focus more in air space domination using either energy weapons and saturation attacks with cheap drones warfare.
The documented destroved TB2 Drohne near a Torm2 was also very low height and distance. Maybe 200m above reason.
Apparently, two drones always operate, a light mark (TB2) and an armed drone.
As a result of this threat is:
Always active 24/7 im standing and in driving!
But that costs: Each vehicle costs 25 million US dollars. Inside prices ~ 15 million US dollars.
We know that there is no TB2 drone where there is a active TorM2.
We know as soon as the TorM2E of the Armenians were pulled south, they were immediately attacked as long as the gates were inactive (I say only inactive in the Garange, boy who makes such a bullshit ???!).
But as soon as the active TorM2, not TB2 Drohne and activity has returned behind the border from Aserbaidschan. . The drone game was over. Just like here in Ukraine. Yes, the TB2 drones still find victims, too many, but they have no effect, no demoral singing, no military effect. They are annoying and cost a lot but the advance Attack will not stop or undermine not morality.
Means for the future:
Torm3, more range, better range for targeting and better and more missiles and reaction speeds!
NATO has nothing in the countryside. If the army against such an armed drones would have to operate and against such an old but effective AD with S-300, SA-8, BUKM1, etc., however, their Air Force would be something in the ass and the enemy would break everything by drone. All! Because NATO has nothing comparable like Buk, Panzir or even TorM! Zero Air Defense in 10km Range. Please refer Saudi Arbaien, Irak (US Airbase) other all Basesd, zero Defence!
We have Panzir systems. The ukrainians captured 3 so far. I guess they will be studied very well.