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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:06 am

    That is interesting... is that some sort of pod on an under engine nacelle on the aircraft top left?

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    Post  Kiko Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:08 pm

    "Product 30": what is the uniqueness of the new engine for the Russian Su-57 aircraft, by Alexey Zakvasin for RT News in Russian. 11/11/2021.

    On November 11, 2016, the first ground launch of the Product 30 demonstrator engine took place. The power plant is designed to equip the Russian fifth generation fighter Su-57. Now this aircraft flies on the AL-41F1 intermediate unit. According to the developers' estimates, the "Product 30" will significantly surpass modern engines in power and fuel efficiency. Experts believe that the carrier of the new power plant will be able to strike much faster and evade enemy attacks.

    Five years ago, on the basis of the Lytkarinsky Machine-Building Plant (LM3), the first ground launch of the “Product 30” demonstrator engine, intended for the Russian fifth generation Su-57 fighter, took place .

    On December 5, 2017, an aircraft with a new power plant made its debut flight, which lasted 17 minutes. It was run by the Hero of the Russian Federation, the chief pilot of the Sukhoi company, Sergei Bogdan.

    Russian Industry and Trade Minister Denis Manturov said that the successful maiden flight of the Su-57 with the new engine would give an additional impetus to the fifth generation fighter program.

    “This is proof of the high potential of the Russian aircraft industry, capable of creating highly intelligent advanced systems: a unique airframe, innovative digital filling, the latest engines,” Manturov emphasized.

    LMZ is a subdivision of the A. Lyulka Experimental Design Bureau, which is part of the United Engine Corporation (UEC). The main task of LMZ is assembly, testing and fine-tuning of aircraft gas turbine engines and their units.

    In non after-burning mode

    "Product 30" is the designation of the so-called second stage engine of the fifth generation aircraft. Now the Su-57 flies on the AL-41F1 intermediate power unit ("Product 117"), which is also called the first stage engine. Its developer is the A. Lyulka Design Bureau.

    Specialists of the enterprise attribute super-maneuverability, thrust-to-weight ratio, low visibility to enemy radars to the key characteristics of the AL-41F1.

    The "Product 117" has an integrated oxygen-free plasma ignition system for the main and afterburner combustion chambers. It allows you to start the engine during flight without oxygen make-up. As experts interviewed by RT explained, providing an aircraft with oxygen requires the availability of appropriate infrastructure at the airfield and the placement of a certain set of equipment on board a combat vehicle.

    In addition, the AL-41F1 became the first Russian aircraft engine to use a fully digital control system based on a domestic element base. The modification of the device will be integrated into the second stage engine as well.

    “The AL-41F1 is the engine on which the Su-35S , the most modern Russian fourth-generation fighter jet, now flies . The power unit really has high performance, but it still belongs to the previous generation of aircraft engines, ”Dmitry Kornev, founder of the Military Russia portal, told RT.

    As the expert explained, the AL-41F1, like other motors, “glows” quite strongly in the radar and infrared spectra. In addition, this engine is not able to provide cruising (normal) flight at supersonic speed in non-afterburner mode.

    “Currently, supersonic flight leads to a significant increase in fuel consumption. As a rule, an aircraft is able to withstand supersonic sound for several minutes, and then, if it continues to fly at supersonic speed, it risks running into a fuel shortage. "Product 30" practically removes such a problem from the agenda, "Kornev emphasized.

    According to the expert, cruising supersonic is becoming an important advantage in the modern theater of operations. In particular, it significantly improves the flight performance of the carrier.

    “Such an aircraft is capable of avoiding enemy attacks much more rapidly, reaching the position of striking the enemy faster and safer, and intercepting and escorting foreign aircraft more quickly,” said Kornev.

    According to the analyst's forecast, the second stage engine will increase the cruising speed of the Su-57 to about 1.5 Mach number. At the same time, in the RT commentary, Honored Pilot of Russia Major General Vladimir Popov estimated this figure at almost Mach 2.

    "Special offer"

    Little is known about the characteristics of Product 30. Earlier on the air of Sputnik radio, UEC representative Anton Chechukov said that in comparison with the AL-41F1, the thrust of the second stage engine would be increased to 17.5-19.5 tons. The engine would also be distinguished by increased fuel efficiency and a reduced life cycle cost.

    In 2018, in an interview with the Zvezda TV channel, General Designer - Director of the A. Lyulka Design Bureau Evgeny Marchukov said that in terms of specific thrust, the Product 30 would surpass all foreign analogues. As a result, the carrier will be able to take off faster, gain altitude, and perform maneuvers with a large overload during air combat.

    In March 2020, an article was published on the website of the Science and Technology journal with an analysis of the technical solutions implemented in Product 30. It reported that the oxygen-free ignition system is installed on modernized nozzles, which ensure the ignition of the fuel immediately after it enters the combustion chamber.

    Thanks to this approach, the optimal combustion mode is maintained and the so-called torching is excluded - the ejection of a column of fire from the nozzle due to excess fuel in the combustion chamber. Also, the second stage engine is equipped with a new nozzle with thrust vector control function.

    The article noted that the electronic-digital control system "Product 30" significantly simplifies the work of the pilot and facilitates the process of tuning the engine. She receives a command from the pilot, and then executes it "taking into account the current parameters and various factors."

    Vladimir Popov stated that Russian designers have significantly changed the thermodynamic process used in previous generations of jet engines.

    “This is due to the special ionization of the air flow, the air-fuel mixture. The afterburner is located in a traditional combustion chamber. In "Product 30" there will be no afterburner as such. Instead, a ring system appeared, which will create the combustion of fuel without its additional supply through pumping systems, which will be more economical. It is planned to increase the efficiency from fuel combustion by 1.2—1.5 times, ”the expert said.

    Also, as Popov noted, the engine of the second stage provides for a complex of new fuel automation, which will regulate the flight mode due to thrust. According to him, in the non-afterburning mode, the thrust of the "Product 30" will be 1.5 times more than that of today's engines.

    “In addition, technological and operational characteristics have been improved in the new engine. Now the testing process is underway. Upon their completion, I think, our industry will cope with setting up the production of the unit. The design office and manufacturing plants work simultaneously, so there should be no problems with production, ”Popov explained.

    Answering a question from RT about the prospects for exporting "Product 30", the major general said that with the deployment of serial production, it is reasonable to focus on equipping the second stage of the Russian aircraft fleet with engines. In the future, as Popov argues, Russia can export the power unit to China, India, Turkey, Argentina and Brazil.

    “There are too many technological positions that are inappropriate to give abroad. For now, it is in the interests of the Russian Federation to use "Product 30" to ensure our defense capability and combat readiness of the Aerospace Forces. Export is possible in five years after the start of production of this unit. Now we will continue to offer other countries deeply modernized samples of the previous generation, ”Popov said.

    Dmitry Kornev adheres to a different point of view. In his opinion, Moscow can start exporting "Product 30" and aircraft with it to the most reliable partners in the area of ​​military-technical cooperation. The expert is confident that such products will be very popular in the global arms market.

    The interlocutor of RT recalled that Russia is actively promoting its fighters on the international market, so the aircraft flying on the "Product 30" will definitely become a "unique offer." According to Kornev, the new unit can be installed not only on the Su-57. With minor modifications, the second stage engine will most likely be mounted on the Su-35 and Su-34 as part of their modernization programs.

    “Creation of jet engines for combat aviation is a most difficult technological task for any state. In my opinion, testing and work on the "Product 30" will continue for several more years. All these gains are not in vain. Our country is close to getting the first power unit since the 1990s, practically devoid of Soviet ancestry. "Product 30" will serve for at least 40 years and will certainly become a platform for the development of various modifications, "summed up Kornev.

    https://russian.rt.com/russia/article/926444-su-57-dvigatel-izdelie-30

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:That is interesting... is that some sort of pod on an under engine nacelle on the aircraft top left?

    I noticed that too.  Could be this one? Air combat training pod?

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 FB6LeUbXsAgU_zj?format=jpg&name=medium
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    Post  kvs Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:37 pm



    Serial production has started.

    Use of VR assembly aids is now part of the assembly line and will keep on expanding in scope.

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    Post  Hole Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:58 am

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Screen53
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Screen54
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Screen55
    A few shots from the video

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    Post  Hole Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:59 am

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Screen56
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Screen57
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Screen58

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    Post  LMFS Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:16 pm

    4 units in production clearly visible in the video, I don't know how old is it. If it is recent, the delivery to VKS this year seems complicated, which is at the end of the day uncritical, if in exchange the production line is optimized and while the second stage design is not ready. All that is produced until 2024-25 will need to be retrofitted and we know the differences in approach between Russian and US MIC and how the early "low rate production" of dozens and dozens of F-35 resulted in the end...
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    Post  dino00 Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:49 pm

    The Aerospace Forces will receive four Su-57 fighters in December, a source said.

    MOSCOW, November 12 - RIA Novosti. The Aerospace Forces ( VKS ) will soon receive new serial fifth-generation fighters, a source in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

    "In December, four production Su-57 fighters are to be transferred to the Russian Aerospace Forces from the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant," he said.

    https://ria.ru/20211112/su-57-1758677189.html

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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:56 am

    Interesting the way the wings fit to the fuselage... would make folding wings for a carrier version easier to design if the wing folding parts were inside the fuselage where there is more room than inside the wing as on most carrier based aircraft... that might allow them to make the fold stronger so there is no reduction in manouver performance to 8g that most folding wing aircraft are limited to.

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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:02 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 997nj-10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Fc5zy310
    Don´t know if this is real or someone playing with photoshop Very Happy

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:27 pm

    Is that iran's color scheme or Egypt?
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:46 pm

    Broski wrote:Is that iran's color scheme or Egypt?
    If for real (strange large empty space behind it in the top piccy) maybe a random desert camo (or UAE) to suit the exhibition its going to in the Gulf.
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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:06 pm

    It is an obvious photoshop. The shadows on the mountains in the background are not consistent with the shadow beneath the jet
    which is also way too dark. Russia has not sold a single copy of the Su-57 to other countries. So no reason for such a paint job.

    But it looks nice with this paint job.



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    Post  LMFS Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:45 pm

    Veeery old PS
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:20 am

    I noticed that too. Could be this one? Air combat training pod?

    It looks like an enlarged weapon pylon that extends well forward under the engine nacelle, but is not fitted to both sides... a bit of a mystery...

    Actually, is it just me or does the right hand side in the photo weapon missile position appear to be open with a dark area on the fuselage side of the aircraft with the enlarge pylon? The other two aircraft in comparison seem to have normal wing missile positions but the upper left plane the wing mounted missile position (internal bay) seems to be for want of a better word slightly open with a leading edge and a dark open area to the right of the projection of the weapon bay...

    That image you posted the central image is interesting of the Su-35 with what appears to be 6 pods simulating the optics of a guided weapon... considering they are captive systems used to simulate optical missile or bomb type weapons for attacks the only reason to carry 6 would be to practise attacking 6 different separate targets in one attack run which is interesting. (If they wanted to engage only three targets per attack run but for say a total of 9 targets they therefore have three attack runs they would only need three pods as they remain on the aircraft and can be reused in flight for finding and locking targets...)


    Is that iran's color scheme or Egypt?

    The red star suggests a Russian example perhaps heading to Syria or a military show in the ME for display... like the UAE show coming up soon.

    It is an obvious photoshop. The shadows on the mountains in the background are not consistent with the shadow beneath the jet
    which is also way too dark. Russia has not sold a single copy of the Su-57 to other countries. So no reason for such a paint job.

    The mountains in the distance would be subject to haze and light refraction.... plus I would think if they are going to fly an example at an airshow in the ME sometime soon as they said this would be an appropriate scheme to fly it in... note the red star... it is not pretending to be any airforce other than the Russian one... but I am sure a few Egyptians and indeed Iranians and Iraqis and maybe even a few Syrians would love to see it in local colours...

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    Post  Mir Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:13 pm

    Not bad but very clearly PS.

    In the top picture you can see how the clone brush was used in the background - repeating the same features in several areas in the background throughout the pic.

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 Ps-1-c10


    In the bottom picture the the artist made a bit of a hash with the tarmac next to the right hand undercarriage (left in the picture).

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    Post  franco Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:23 pm

    affraid

    What are you trying to do man dunno

    Start the "weld wars" all over again pale

    Suspect

    thumbsup

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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:25 am

    Not bad but very clearly PS.

    In the top picture you can see how the clone brush was used in the background - repeating the same features in several areas in the background throughout the pic.

    Interesting observation, but why put such features there at all?

    What are they covering?

    You could argue the slopes of the hills coming down at about a 30 degree angle are also fake, but that is a natural geological feature.

    Evidence of a photoshop would be the lighting on the aircraft being different from the lighting in the local terrain and the colour range being different with the aircraft and the background because the two images were taken at different locations at different times under different lighting conditions.

    Also evidence the plane was "cut out" is evidence too but smoothing tools make that hard.

    Franco is right though... the only way to be actually sure is to find the two images that were combined to make this image and that is normally difficult.
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    Post  Mir Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:43 am

    I would guess that the artist used the clone tool in the mountains to hide features like a city scape or something that doesn't fit in with the desert look. Even in the slopes you can see repetitive brush strokes typical of when you use a clone tool if you look carefully. There are also other repetitive features visible throughout the bottom of the mountain range. I do a lot of PS which makes it easy for me to spot these things. Sometimes it's blatantly obvious but sometimes you have to look a bit harder.
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    Post  Cheetah Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:32 pm

    Mir is correct.

    The apron that the T-50 is parked on is definitely some Russian airbase. So the artist has just taken a picture of the T-50 in Russia, imposed it on a backdrop of desert mountains, and made some careless errors in blending the two. Another place to look is the canopy in the first image. It's hard to properly blend transparent surfaces into a new background, and in this image it really shows. The drab-grey of the typical Russian sky is still baked into the canopy reflection, despite the clear skies in the image.

    But all of that is secondary to the reality that I (and, I imagine, many of you) have definitely seen the sources of both these images, and they were not remotely close to the desert. I'll try to find them.

    EDIT:
    Found the first of the two:
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 123467

    And also the second (Corrected):
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #8 - Page 2 194909_orig

    I also rescind my comments on the drab-grey Russian sky.  Both of the real images have pretty clear skys.


    Last edited by Cheetah on Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:59 am

    I agree with your arguments Cheetah, and that first image looks very much like the one used for the potential composite image... it would be pretty easy to use the replace colour functions to change the camouflage from whites and blues to the desert camo colours.

    But the comments about editing the desert and hills because there is repetition... just pick a better photo... why edit out features... just take a photo from the place you want to imply the actual photo was taken (or should I say get a photo).

    I have been playing with photoshop as an amateur for a good 25 years... many a university lecturer felt my wrath with their heads placed in famous photos...
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    Post  Scorpius Yesterday at 7:35 pm

    LMFS wrote:4 units in production clearly visible in the video, I don't know how old is it. If it is recent, the delivery to VKS this year seems complicated, which is at the end of the day uncritical, if in exchange the production line is optimized and while the second stage design is not ready. All that is produced until 2024-25 will need to be retrofitted and we know the differences in approach between Russian and US MIC and how the early "low rate production" of dozens and dozens of F-35 resulted in the end...

    1. This video was most likely shot in the summer.
    2. No one can say that these are exactly the 4 aircraft that are planned to be transferred to the VKS this year.
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    Post  LMFS Yesterday at 8:29 pm

    Scorpius wrote:1. This video was most likely shot in the summer.
    2. No one can say that these are exactly the 4 aircraft that are planned to be transferred to the VKS this year.

    Yes, the same day I wrote that, MoD confirmed they would receive 4 units in December, so the video was probably not fresh shot when published.

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