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Mir
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    Αnti-Rogozin thread for tantrums.

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:26 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:......You really must love him Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil  cmon no need to be emotional about Rogozin. His first task is to dry swamp of 25 years ....

    That flat-earther moron IS the swamp



    Speaking of moron check this shit out:

    Russian space chief invites Elon Musk to his home: 'I already set the teakettle on heat'

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/07/business/russia-space-dmitry-rogozin-elon-musk/index.html


    What's the matter? Why would he want to talk to some guy who has to use trampoline to launch things in space?

    Infinite fucking stupidity and humiliation...


    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:45 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:......You really must love him Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil  cmon no need to be emotional about Rogozin. His first task is to dry swamp of 25 years ....

    That flat-earther moron IS the swamp



    Speaking of moron check this shit out:

    Russian space chief invites Elon Musk to his home: 'I already set the teakettle on heat'

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/07/business/russia-space-dmitry-rogozin-elon-musk/index.html


    What's the matter? Why would he want to talk to some guy who has to use trampoline to launch things in space?

    Infinite fucking stupidity and humiliation...



    FFS, you and your trampoline fixation. Rogozin invoked a "trampoline" due to murkan politicians threatening anctions on Rusisan space services and purchades of RD-180s for Delta rockets. In that respect, his response was entirley correct, ie to remind the murkanz that reciprocal sanctions could threaten US access to space. Nothing wrong with what he said. It may even have caused a few of the worst head cases to stop their infantile yabbering and think a little before acting.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:56 am

    Daniel_Admassu wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Daniel_Admassu wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Others keep building and launching

    Russia keeps canceling

    Trampoline Man keeps laughing his ass off

    What a fucking shitshow ... No  lol1


    I am not sure that I concur with the assertion that it is all Rogozin's fault, but it is true that Russia needs to do more in fast tracking its spaceport and launcher development. Deep space exploration and new space station roadmap is also another area it risks falling behind in. The number of satellite launches is not that important in itself but can be an indicator of neglect in the industry as a whole.

    Here is something most lower intellect people don't know

    You can't fall behind in such things.

    You see, China made leaps and bounds and new development. So did India. With very little history or technology base.  To say they will fall behind is rather primitive thought point.  You can't fall behind it. You either don't do it or you do.

    Russia has more things to do and fix before they venture further into deep space.  What is to be gained from it is still questionable and thus such frivolous endeavors are a waste in cost till they sort their shit out.  It doesn't mean they won't do it. They will. Just depends on the date.

    We have no idea what Russia's roadmap is in space development.  They jump through projects then cancel them or shelve them.  Why? Maybe because they realized it wasn't necessary and a waste on limited resources.

    US hasn't been doing shit for a decade till private companies decided to join in. And Elon Musk and the likes will only go so far, till their pocket books and shareholders are no longer interested. Then it's back to the state to do it.

    Russia is facing a different issue - "professionals" all giving their input but no one having a clear idea or path.

    So far, nuclear tug and Angara are the only thing I'm aware of in where they still have that consistent plan.

    India's economy is collapsing and they will eventually put a curb on spending on such endeavors too till they fix their shit.

    Either you have serious trouble articulating your thoughts or you are dumb as hell. I will assume the first.

    We are talking about Russia falling behind. Not China or India.

    Russia was pretty much the first in every space checklist item. First satellite, first human, first space  walk, first space station, first probe to the moon...we really have a long list.

    Leave India or Elon Musk alone for now. China, in the last two decades, started from basically nothing and now maintains a permanent space station. I am not sure if it won't go ahead with its lunar station on its own and beat Russia to it. It has working rovers on both the moon and Mars. It has the largest terrestrial radio telescope. It has its own NavSat system. On top of that it has become second in overall launches.

    Now I know as much as the next person that most of China's progress was the result of technological copying combined with huge expenditure matching its economy. I don't begrudge them that. Not while the west hasn't been fair itself in its own history. And I don't expect Russia to match that kind of spending.

    But I EXPECT Russia to leverage its existing infrastructure and know how to stay on top of its game. Space exploration in particular is an area where the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. Achievement in this area will not be a plus just for science and space tech. It has an effect of inspiring  whole generations. Most Soviet youth grew up with the image of the Venera and Gagarin in their minds.

    The current ones, however, are watching on TV images of space sent by Chinese and NASA rovers. How is that, in any conceivable way,  not falling behind?

    I am not saying that Russia doesn't have a few things to look forward to, like the Angara project, the Federation capsule or the Zeus space thug. But it is frustrating to see endless redesigns and delays whenever you have something to hope for.

    I'll make this short and easy for you to understand.

    You using phrases like "falling behind" in space exploration, especially deep space, doesn't really exist. It isn't me not being able to articulate what I said, it is more like your reading comprehension skills. The India and China mentioning's are examples. The example here is that - they were behind, yet they made endeavors that exceeded those with experience and a strong industry in that same field. India didn't make the smaller steps like we think, they made a large leaps. And they were rather successful. They didn't fall behind, they were technically behind. Yet they made leaps beyond others. China has a history of space but its rather questionable as to quality and development overall. Yet, they proved to us they can do it. They didn't have the same successes and failures of the USSR/Russia/USA. Yet they still made leaps beyond the others and came out on par with the top dogs. What I am getting at is that in modern world, falling behind doesn't necessarily exist because access to the technology for the task at hand can be acquired on the market. I guess you can thank the end of the USSR for that when both sides privatized and sold off major assets that were once state property. Now it gives ability to countries like India, China, Iran, etc to all get involved in space industry and start launching what they want or doing what they want/need. So long as they have the expertise (educated people) at hand. Russia, thankfully still has such people. India has lots of such people. Hence how they proved it with Mars Orbiter program.

    To break it down further - If this theoretical "fall behind" happens for Russia (which many claim already is the case), they will do what they set out to do for the task at hand in a future date when they can. Maybe they will send a rover to Venus before anyone else even if they have not sent one to mars. How? Maybe by then they will be first to access such technology before others. Maybe they built it with existing technology off the shelf they have access to and they figured out various problems that prevented others from getting there. They didn't fall behind, they simply made another stride. Maybe, hell, Iran does it.

    I was more triggered by you using that phrase as if it meant anything. Maybe it did 50 years ago. Doesn't now.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:20 am

    PapaDragon wrote:



    Speaking of moron check this shit out:

    Russian space chief invites Elon Musk to his home: 'I already set the teakettle on heat'

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/07/business/russia-space-dmitry-rogozin-elon-musk/index.html

    Musk answer:

    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    Replying to
    @Rogozin

    Thanks! What is your favorite tea?


    8:28 PM · Sep 7, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1435308889659039748



    What's the matter? Why would he want to talk to some guy who has to use trampoline to launch things in space?


    The different is, Musk knows who Rogozin is and what Roscosmoss is too :-)




    Infinite fucking stupidity and humiliation...  

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:30 am

    Off Topic

    To KVS about journos. RBC:


    3/09 SSJ-100, in headline.

    Passenger SSJ100 returned to Sheremetyevo after signaling a malfunction

    Подробнее на РБК:
    https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/613284709a794750f48740a6?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop



    today again incident yet , no liner mentioned.

    Ria:

    Rossiya Airlines plane makes an emergency landing at Pulkovo


    https://ria.ru/20210915/samolet-1750242704.html

    only in TASS they mentioned that this was A319...

    Are journos minds so much washed in western superiority ?! What a Face What a Face What a Face

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:32 am

    These newspapers are actually digging a hole for themselves. I believe laws do exist or are being pushed to punish journalism for spreading fud.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:38 am

    miketheterrible wrote:These newspapers are actually digging a hole for themselves.  I believe laws do exist or are being pushed to punish journalism for spreading fud.


    But none of above messages were fake. Both were true yet black PR is on Russian jets. AFAIK in China now commies are preparing "cultural revolution" in a sense to prevent westernization of youth.

    Look at Russian journos what happens when you mentally feel worse toward west...
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:38 am

    I guess inviting con-artist Elon Musk over for tea is all that's left now

    Our own projects seem to be stuck in a limbo of ever-shifting goalposts and redesigns

    I am of the opinion though that co-operation with the US in space, or rather a continuation of co-operation as in fact we have been co-operating successfully for the last 30 years - is in Russia's best interests.
    We need to figure out where we can do joint-projects, joint-research and make money. Same goes for every other national space agency.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:44 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:...FFS, you and your trampoline fixation. Rogozin invoked a "trampoline" due to murkan politicians threatening anctions on Rusisan space services and purchades of RD-180s for Delta rockets....

    It was an empty threat, everyone and their grandma knew that there's nothing that Russia can do to harm American space program and that USA has more than enough money, technology and experience to easily arrange access to space for themselves which they promptly did to surprise of absolutely no one



    Big_Gazza wrote:...In that respect, his response was entirley correct, ie to remind the murkanz that reciprocal sanctions could threaten US access to space. ...

    His dumbass response made Russia a running joke and, kickstarted US private space program, massively dropped price of US launches and fully and needlessly exposed Russia's impotence

    US access to space remains unchallenged and absolute



    Big_Gazza wrote:...Nothing wrong with what he said. It may even have caused a few of the worst head cases to stop their infantile yabbering and think a little before acting..

    As we all know none of it happened



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    Replying to
    @Rogozin
    Thanks! What is your favorite tea?...

    If only Rogozin practiced this much dignity with his comments several years ago he wouldn't have to humiliate himself and Russia now with this retarded invitation

    Fucking Elon Musk has more dignity and humility than that fat retarded manbaby FFS...



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:The different is, Musk knows who Rogozin is and what Roscosmoss is too...

    Of course he does, everyone heard about that moron

    He has reached memetic levels long ago



    flamming_python wrote:...I am of the opinion though that co-operation with the US in space, or rather a continuation of co-operation as in fact we have been co-operating successfully for the last 30 years - is in Russia's best interests.
    We need to figure out where we can do joint-projects, joint-research and make money....

    They already figured it out for you: there's an offer to build docking module for lunar station and get a free seat on it, transport included

    But they will not wait forever and the person cockblocking the whole thing due to his bruised little ego is, you guessed it, The Trampoline Man himself



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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:01 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:...FFS, you and your trampoline fixation.  Rogozin invoked a "trampoline" due to murkan politicians threatening anctions on Rusisan space services and purchades of RD-180s for Delta rockets....

    It was an empty threat, everyone and their grandma knew that there's nothing that Russia can do to harm American space program and that USA has more than enough money, technology and experience to easily arrange access to space for themselves which they promptly did to surprise of absolutely no one



    Big_Gazza wrote:...In that respect, his response was entirley correct, ie to remind the murkanz that reciprocal sanctions could threaten US access to space. ...

    His dumbass response made Russia a running joke and, kickstarted US private space program, massively dropped price of US launches and fully and needlessly exposed Russia's impotence

    US access to space remains unchallenged and absolute



    Big_Gazza wrote:...Nothing wrong with what he said. It may even have caused a few of the worst head cases to stop their infantile yabbering and think a little before acting..

    As we all know none of it happened



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    Replying to
    @Rogozin
    Thanks! What is your favorite tea?...

    If only Rogozin practiced this much dignity with his comments several years ago he wouldn't have to humiliate himself and Russia now with this retarded invitation

    Fucking Elon Musk has more dignity and humility than that fat retarded manbaby FFS...



    GunshipDemocracy wrote:The different is, Musk knows who Rogozin is and what Roscosmoss is too...

    Of course he does, everyone heard about that moron

    He has reached memetic levels long ago



    flamming_python wrote:...I am of the opinion though that co-operation with the US in space, or rather a continuation of co-operation as in fact we have been co-operating successfully for the last 30 years - is in Russia's best interests.
    We need to figure out where we can do joint-projects, joint-research and make money....

    They already figured it out for you: there's an offer to build docking module for lunar station and get a free seat on it, transport included

    But they will not wait forever and the person cockblocking the whole thing due to his bruised little ego is, you guessed it, The Trampoline Man himself



    dude, you really should be more knowledgeable about the topic you're discussing. So far, I see a traditional commercial about snake oil about the Western civilization of racially pure superhumans surpassing the crappy Russians.

    Let me remind you of some facts for now.
    1. Commercial programs were launched by NASA back in the mid-noughties, when Rogozin was not even close to the leadership of Roscosmos. How could the phrase said in 2014 be the reason for the programs launched in 2006?

    2 The situation with the endless cancellation of programs has been going on since the collapse of the USSR, and this is not the specifics of the Rogozin administration period. The main questions need to be asked to the comprador financial block of the Russian government, which consistently, year after year, cuts the financing of any programs in the field of cosmonautics.

    3. You overestimate the "inspiring effect" that cosmonautics gives too much. Did the space achievements of the USSR save it from collapse? Any of your successes may be devalued. Are you a leader in all areas of space research? Well, now they'll invent some shitty Moon Race in which you didn't even participate, but suddenly you were among the losers. Are you winning too many medals at the Olympics? Well, your team will simply be banned under a far-fetched pretext.

    4. It was clearly stated that the Russian space program has three main goals in order of priority:
    1. Ensuring national security,
    2. Meeting the needs of the Russian economic sector,
    3. Scientific research
    You can see which parameters are brought to the fore. It is quite strange to demand that Russia should be somewhere ahead of countries whose budget for the space industry is ten times higher than the Russian one. Everyone is talking about this - but only for some reason you demand that Russia meets your expectations based on reading the headlines of newspapers.

    ...if you want Russia to spend a lot of money on space programs in order to meet your expectations, perhaps you should think about what contribution Serbia can make to the budget of the Russian program, instead of insulting my country here.

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    Post  owais.usmani Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:08 am

    I would request GarryB to look at the possibility of implementing thread / section based ignore list option on this forum, so that PapaDragon is on everybody's ignore list for threads related to Russian space industry. thumbsup

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    Post  Scorpius Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:26 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    Interesting that the journo who wrote this piece attributes the pause to consider a methalox alternative to Rogozin.  IIRC it was the Russian Academy of Sciences that was driving the proposed use of methane instead of traditional kerolox.

    you're missing one detail. The Commission of the Russian Academy of Sciences does not have the authority for permissive actions. In this situation, it would be more correct to say that Rogozin listened to the opinion of scientists, suspending work until clarifying the possibilities of improving the project through the use of promising technologies. Once again, positive news is presented as negative.

    ...I am already pretty sure that the decision will depend on whether the Starship orbital flight will be successful. If this concept proves its viability, the Russian space program will face serious changes.

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    Post  Mir Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 am

    I think PD is entitled to his opinion. The Russians/Soviets has a tremendous history in space exploration but unfortunately the 90's happened and everything screeched to a halt. It is only now that the Russians are seriously investing into their space programs and so far it's looking pretty good.

    Naturally there will be hick-ups along the way that will hopefully not end with disastrous results, but I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.

    It will be a costly affair but if I were the Russian I would rather look at countries like China and perhaps even India as space exploration partners.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:58 am

    Scorpius wrote:...I am already pretty sure that the decision will depend on whether the Starship orbital flight will be successful. If this concept proves its viability, the Russian space program will face serious changes.

    Starship is rubbish, Musks attempt at attracting military funding for a rapid reaction sub-orbital delivery system for inserting elite forces anywhere on the globe within a few hours. That absurd wheat silo with engines is never going anywhere near the fecking Moon. I doubt its even capable of getting into orbit and returning intact.

    The education level of murkans has collapsed in recent decades, and the average dumb schmuck pavement ape lacks the cognitive function to recognize a scam when they see one. Their politicians are even more cerebrally challenged.

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    Post  owais.usmani Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:59 am

    Mir wrote:I think PD is entitled to his opinion.

    PD has a right to his opinion regarding Russian space and Rogozin, and everybody else has a right to ignore his opinion.

    Fair enough?

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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    It was an empty threat, everyone and their grandma knew that there's nothing that Russia can do to harm American space program and that USA has more than enough money, technology and experience to easily arrange access to space for themselves which they promptly did to surprise of absolutely no one

    Really? How long do you think NASA will keep ISS flying once the Russians pull out and de-orbit their segments? Or if Russia announces a moratorium on the use of Progress tankers to refuel the ISS attitude control fuel? Heck, for the best part of 10 years the murkans were incapable of getting their people to the ISS... they abandoned the SST without developing an alternative transport system... Twisted Evil


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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:05 pm

    Russia was pretty much the first in every space checklist item. First satellite, first human, first space walk, first space station, first probe to the moon...we really have a long list.

    That was the Soviet Union, and during a cold war where each side was trying to prove its superiority.

    I am not sure if it won't go ahead with its lunar station on its own and beat Russia to it.

    So what if it does?

    t has working rovers on both the moon and Mars. It has the largest terrestrial radio telescope. It has its own NavSat system. On top of that it has become second in overall launches.

    Again... so what? Do they get a cookie or does Russia miss out on that cookie?


    But I EXPECT Russia to leverage its existing infrastructure and know how to stay on top of its game.

    I am sure the expectations of internet fans are at the top of their agenda, but to be honest I really don't think really big rockets have much potential or use.

    There is no type of big rocket we could possibly use to get to Mars and back... it is just too far and too long, so super big rockets only make sense for heavy satellites or going to the moon.

    The fact is that building rockets and interplanetary craft in earth orbit is going to be the future of space travel beyond the moon and using enormous big heavy rockets does not really make sense because whatever they build is going to need to be assembled in pieces so smaller rockets taking up useful sized pieces and contents for pieces makes sense over a much longer period than trying to launch everything in one go.

    Space exploration in particular is an area where the whole is larger than the sum of its parts.

    But you expect Russia to be first at everything still.

    Achievement in this area will not be a plus just for science and space tech. It has an effect of inspiring whole generations.

    And the enormous irony is that the American put the first man on the moon because of the shame of being beaten with Sputnik...

    It is not like Russia does not have other things to do... like raising living standards in their country and securing sanction free commerce with other countries outside the west.

    Most Soviet youth grew up with the image of the Venera and Gagarin in their minds.

    Didn't win the cold war though did it?

    The current ones, however, are watching on TV images of space sent by Chinese and NASA rovers. How is that, in any conceivable way, not falling behind?

    It wouldn't matter if Russia landed people on Mars tomorrow... the western media wouldn't notice and the rest of the world would not care that much either... most people don't even care about the ISS... present company excepted of course.

    I am not saying that Russia doesn't have a few things to look forward to, like the Angara project, the Federation capsule or the Zeus space thug. But it is frustrating to see endless redesigns and delays whenever you have something to hope for.

    Maybe the problem is with your expectations...

    I don't see how pausing development to incorporate technologies developed for Amur in order to make Yenisei cheaper and better to use would be considered falling behind, it in fact ensures competitiveness.

    Exactly... changes to improve something make it better... imagine completing it as is and ignoring any problems or issues and putting it into mass production and then after you build 500 of them you realise you need some serious fundamental changes to the basic design... Russia can't waste money like that.... and they need to get results... they can't just print more money.

    Work on the creation of the super-heavy Yenisei launch vehicle has never stopped, Roscosmos head Dmitry Rogozin told reporters on Wednesday during a visit to NPO Automatics in Yekaterinburg.

    Hmmm...

    Rogozin said something intelligent?

    My God, flaming rocks will be falling out of the sky, take shelter!!!

    Jeez PD you sound like such a hard man till it comes to apologising to your boyfriend Rogozin and then you just turn into a gushing pussy....

    Speaking of moron check this shit out:

    Russian space chief invites Elon Musk to his home: 'I already set the teakettle on heat'

    You think he is a moron for inviting someone to tea?

    I guess inviting con-artist Elon Musk over for tea is all that's left now

    He never conned any Russians out of anything... he is a South African milking the US taxpayer for everything they want to throw at him and they are printing it as fast as they can.

    I am of the opinion though that co-operation with the US in space, or rather a continuation of co-operation as in fact we have been co-operating successfully for the last 30 years - is in Russia's best interests.

    I don't, but there is no need not to be civil.

    When they grow up and can compete commercially without throwing tantrums and imposing sanctions then maybe there is room for talk... until then screw them As far as I am concerned.

    But why not talk to Musk... might be able to sell him some stuff...

    It was an empty threat, everyone and their grandma knew that there's nothing that Russia can do to harm American space program and that USA has more than enough money, technology and experience to easily arrange access to space for themselves which they promptly did to surprise of absolutely no one

    Five years of humiliation...

    His dumbass response made Russia a running joke and, kickstarted US private space program, massively dropped price of US launches and fully and needlessly exposed Russia's impotence

    Bullshit. US prices for launches are higher than ever... the US military just subsidised part of the cost so they lost a hell of a lot of money on that for what?

    So companies could get their payloads to space cheaper on US taxpayers dollars instead of Russia.

    Now the prices are more realistic we see how loyal they are... that last launch were British satellites launched from a Russian rocket weren't they?

    US access to space remains unchallenged and absolute

    Unchallenged? My ass.


    If only Rogozin practiced this much dignity with his comments several years ago he wouldn't have to humiliate himself and Russia now with this retarded invitation

    Fucking Elon Musk has more dignity and humility than that fat retarded manbaby FFS...

    Rogozin offered Elon a tea date and Elon accepted... the humiliation and dignity and humility are all in your head.


    They already figured it out for you: there's an offer to build docking module for lunar station and get a free seat on it, transport included

    Already rejected.

    The US wanted someone to build a docking module that would work but then shut up and take a back seat while daddy did all the driving... **** off.

    That is no cooperation.

    But they will not wait forever and the person cockblocking the whole thing due to his bruised little ego is, you guessed it, The Trampoline Man himself

    They can shove it up their asses and make it themselves if they can... maybe Russia can send them a design and they can spend 5 years trying to make a copy themselves like they did with Rocket engines they have been using for decades.

    1. Commercial programs were launched by NASA back in the mid-noughties, when Rogozin was not even close to the leadership of Roscosmos. How could the phrase said in 2014 be the reason for the programs launched in 2006?

    See now if you demand facts and truth and accuracy be reasonable.

    America was applying all sorts of sanctions against Russia for the successful coup in Kiev by the US and EU, of course Rogozin should have been much nicer and more respectful to those censored censored censored .

    2 The situation with the endless cancellation of programs has been going on since the collapse of the USSR, and this is not the specifics of the Rogozin administration period. The main questions need to be asked to the comprador financial block of the Russian government, which consistently, year after year, cuts the financing of any programs in the field of cosmonautics.

    How many trillion dollars would the US have saved if they stopped programmes when there were issues or problems... Ford, Zumwalt, LCS, F-35... these programmes are so eye wateringly expensive because they were produced... if they had been killed off earlier some serious money could have been saved...

    Really? How long do you think NASA will keep ISS flying once the Russians pull out and de-orbit their segments? Or if Russia announces a moratorium on the use of Progress tankers to refuel the ISS attitude control fuel? Heck, for the best part of 10 years the murkans were incapable of getting their people to the ISS... they abandoned the SST without developing an alternative transport system...

    The bar is set much lower for the US than for everyone else obviously....

    Serious missions to Mars need to wait till nuclear space tugs are perfected and operational and then it will become viable... until then it is like trying to break the sound barrier with propeller driven aircraft... you might stretch the technology and achieve small goals, but nothing practical would come of it...

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:23 pm

    Scorpius wrote:...if you want Russia to spend a lot of money on space programs in order to meet your expectations, perhaps you should think about what contribution Serbia can make to the budget of the Russian program...

    You expect someone to give money for programme headed by retarded flat-earther?

    That money can be burned for heating, at least that way there would be some use out of it



    Scorpius wrote:....instead of insulting my country here.

    Your country appointed certified moron as a head of it's space program, insults are perfectly appropriate

    It's for your own good



    Scorpius wrote:...I am already pretty sure that the decision will depend on whether the Starship orbital flight will be successful. If this concept proves its viability, the Russian space program will face serious changes....

    So you are saying that SpaceX success is required for Roskosmos to get their heads out of their asses?

    Well in that case: Go Elon, go...   No



    Big_Gazza wrote:Starship is rubbish, Musks attempt at attracting military funding for a rapid reaction sub-orbital delivery system for inserting elite forces anywhere on the globe within a few hours.   That absurd wheat silo with engines is never going anywhere near the fecking Moon.  I doubt its even capable of getting into orbit and returning intact....

    And what if it does go? Then what?

    People kept saying that Falcon and Dragon aren't going anywhere and they ended up eating their own shit when they did

    History ain't exactly supporting your hopes and dreams



    Big_Gazza wrote:....Really?  How long do you think NASA will keep ISS flying once the Russians pull out and de-orbit their segments? ...

    As Rogozin admitted couple of days ago Russians can't do shit about ISS

    They will contnue play their bit part



    GarryB\" wrote:....The US wanted someone to build a docking module that would work but then shut up and take a back seat while daddy did all the driving... **** off...

    When all you can build is car door getting a free back seat is a bargain of a century



    GarryB\" wrote:....Five years of humiliation...

    Carrying water for Rogozin again?

    It's not five, it's well over ten years of humiliation for Russia and counting



    GarryB wrote:... and then you just turn into a gushing pussy....

    Nice try Mr. Administrator, not falling for that again   Wink



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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:34 am

    flamming_python wrote:I guess inviting con-artist Elon Musk over for tea is all that's left now

    Our own projects seem to be stuck in a limbo of ever-shifting goalposts and redesigns



    what precisely is stuck? Launching low orbit satellites (making money) is working. Costs are being cut. Rogozin cannot do much beyond budget he got.  Perhaps somebody cloud do better perhaps not. Yet for some reason Putin appointed him.



    4.41 billion rubles were allocated for the creation of the Soyuz rocket with a manned spacecraft

    Funding allocated for the creation of a launch vehicle and a ship until 2024
    https://tass.ru/ekonomika/12423733



    Russia and Kazakhstan signed an agreement on the creation of the Soyuz-5 launch complex

    The parties are proceeding with the reconstruction of the launch and technical complexes of the Zenit rocket for their modernization within the framework of the Baiterek project, said Dmitry Rogozin, General Director of Roscosmos.

    https://tass.ru/kosmos/12425255





    I am of the opinion though that co-operation with the US in space, or rather a continuation of co-operation as in fact we have been co-operating successfully for the last 30 years - is in Russia's best interests.
    We need to figure out where we can do joint-projects, joint-research and make money. Same goes for every other national space agency.


    Musk is not NASA, besides it is better to have good PR contacting Musk as he shows respect to Russian space programme. Unlike Washington's swamp. Cooperation yes, still I believe mid Run china is better partner.

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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:53 am

    Instead of blowing money on gimmicks, which includes the LNG reusable fluff, the orbital assembly and nuclear
    propulsion approach should be pursued. I would say this is more worthwhile than running a space station.
    The ISS has shown that little scientific value comes out of it. Refining the same Mir-era tech (which is
    what the ISS is) is a waste of time.

    Space X is a type of baiting operation. The yanquis decided based on the Buran that Russia will rush to copy
    their crap and sink itself. The methalox reusable project smells of taking the bait. But it does not seem to
    be a development priority so maybe it will be cancelled later. The Yanisei project should be justified by some
    minimum load requirement to deliver components into LEO. Otherwise it is also a sink of money.

    All the yapping about Russia falling behind when it is the clear leader in the development of nuclear propulsion.
    But the timid support for this development as seen in the timelines is disappointing. The bureaucratic mentality
    at Roscosmos shows a lot of fossilization. But the showboating western "success" is not anything better.


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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:21 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:...Yet for some reason Putin appointed him...

    He wasn't appointed, he was demoted

    He used to do Borisov's job but once military development stopped being dead end and became priority again they had to bring aboard someone who is not retarded

    So Roskosmos was sacrificed to keep Rogozin from making noise, apparently he still has some small but measurable cloud among moron segment of Russian population who are unfortunately allowed to vote (one more argument in favor of abandoning the idiotic one person = one vote approach)

    Space program was sacrificed in favor national security, unfortunate but true


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    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:53 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:...Yet for some reason Putin appointed him...

    He wasn't appointed, he was demoted

    He used to do Borisov's job but once military development stopped being dead end and became priority again they had to bring aboard someone who is not retarded

    So Roskosmos was sacrificed to keep Rogozin from making noise, apparently he still has some small but measurable cloud among moron segment of Russian population who are unfortunately allowed to vote (one more argument in favor of abandoning the idiotic one person = one vote approach)

    Space program was sacrificed in favor national security, unfortunate but true



    He's not a true idiot though

    Since the 90s his role has been to act as a spoiler for the elite, heading faux-nationalist political parties to steal votes from real ones

    It's how the guy made his career

    Unfortunately such credentials don't translate into the reserved, professional and diplomatic role of being the head of a national space agency, any more than Zhirinovsky's would
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:47 am

    You expect someone to give money for programme headed by retarded flat-earther?

    Russia is never going to spend an enormous amount on space, they have problems on Earth that need sorting before playing at Star Trek.

    That money can be burned for heating, at least that way there would be some use out of it

    So you recommend defunding the Russian space programme... but Rogozin is the moron?

    Your country appointed certified moron as a head of it's space program, insults are perfectly appropriate

    You see when you make shit up then what you say has less value.

    Did you certify him yourself? Or do you have evidence a professional has certified him insane?

    I am guessing the former... which in internet terms means he annoys you... which has never been a good reason to defund an entire organisation, and makes your insults look silly.

    Like calling the head of their space programme a flat earther...

    It's for your own good

    Serbia has been an occupied country for too long... you are now handing out unsolicited advice like an American politician... can you not understand that such advice is just as unwelcome?


    So you are saying that SpaceX success is required for Roskosmos to get their heads out of their asses?

    If you are going to be using Musk as the example of what Russia needs to be then the things Musk is doing at least need to actually work and be successful... just as a very basic requirement...

    And what if it does go? Then what?

    Who cares?

    Something that size could be shot down using a Panstir or TOR level SAM and kill all the soldiers on board with one missile... I hope they buy a lot of them... the cost will push them over the edge faster to where they realise they need some serious fundamental changes... social changes... or the next colour revolution might be in the US of A.

    People kept saying that Falcon and Dragon aren't going anywhere and they ended up eating their own shit when they did

    Dude... they two Amazing enormous leaps forward in human technology and capacity are basically American Soyuz (Dragon) rockets to transport stuff to the ISS... and Falcon... Falcon is hilarious because when the Soviets were making the N1 we were told that the Saturn V design with four rocket nozzles was vastly better than having lots of little rocket nozzles... safer and evidence of superior rocket technology blah blah blah... but Falcon seems to repeat the large clusters of rocket motors like the Soviets used and not like the Germans used for the Saturn V... big deal... get over yourself.

    SpaceX is something rather more ambitious and complex and prone to failure...

    As Rogozin admitted couple of days ago Russians can't do shit about ISS

    They will contnue play their bit part

    The ISS is going to expire with the next couple of years... it is almost 2022 and they are talking about leaving in 2025 or so... so no... they wont continue to play their part... by 2026 or so the US will likely withdraw from Kabul in Earth Orbit... hope they give the other members warning and don't leave any up there.

    The Russian plans are that when the ISS cooperation ends they will build their own space station... that will be very useful for them to test stuff up there in private, but China might want to join them too... and why not?

    When all you can build is car door getting a free back seat is a bargain of a century

    When the car door is the only part that actually works... stay clear of that back seat...

    Carrying water for Rogozin again?

    5 years of begging for seats on Russian rockets to get to and from the ISS... if the situation was reversed you would go more mental that normal that Rogozin needs to be fired... etc etc.

    It's not five, it's well over ten years of humiliation for Russia and counting

    What are you talking about?

    The ten years of Russian humiliation were called the Yeltsin years and they ended in 2000.

    ISS made sense at the time but it is getting near the end of its lifespan and everyone needs to move on.

    Existing sanctions from the US prove there is no point in cooperating with them on another space station, and it sounds to me like the US military wants a space station of its own to test secret weapons, so it will be good for Russia to have the same of their own.

    Nice try Mr. Administrator, not falling for that again

    Dude... if I wanted to ban you I could do it easily, and a few people might get upset, but a lot of people might not be upset at all.

    I don't do traps.

    If you lose your temper and say something I will ban you for you could even apologise in private and that would be enough most of the time to prevent more serious action.

    Don't piss George off though...

    I understand people get angry and say things they wouldn't normally say just to get a rise or a reaction from the other person, and honestly I really don't like perma banning members... but some times I am given no choice because there has to be order.

    You can continue your rants about Rogozin... I have learned to filter them out and those that object to your crusade against the guy can put you on their ignore list to solve their problem with you, but that just means when you do say something interesting then a lot of members will miss out.

    You could dial back your venom and return to the normal... which is not to say you have to worship him or anything, but perhaps cope with it internally, and maybe return back to earth... you see I am sure the view from that ivory tower was wonderful for you but for the rest of us looking up all you see is bollocks and arse holes.... Tsavo talking about when Putin is gone and the Ukraine joins Russia again, or Van hating on Russia too and thinking Vaccines are made by the devil and are intended as mind control or population control or some such rubbish.

    Up to you.
    Follow the rules and don't piss George off... Smile


    The Soyuz-2.1b carrier rocket was launched from the Baikonur space center in Kazakhstan at 21:07 Moscow time on Tuesday. The launch is to bring the number of British satellites to 322.

    So the British company OneWeb is using French and Russian and Kazakhstan launch facilities to launch their satellites... but no American rockets or launch locations... I thought Musk had defeated the Russians and stolen all their business because his launches are so cheap?

    Musk is not NASA, besides it is better to have good PR contacting Musk as he shows respect to Russian space programme. Unlike Washington's swamp. Cooperation yes, still I believe mid Run china is better partner.

    Totally agree. NASA is bowing to anti Russia bullshit from the Pentagon and Washington and saying nothing at all against it and then when Russia talks about these sanctions and what a pain in the ass they are NASA says everything is great... why is Russia complaining...

    Well they are complaining because sanctions are normally an act of war and not something you do to a country you want to cooperate with.

    Instead of blowing money on gimmicks, which includes the LNG reusable fluff, the orbital assembly and nuclear
    propulsion approach should be pursued. I would say this is more worthwhile than running a space station.

    Making rockets reusable to reduce costs is not a gimmick and certainly not fluff. For missions beyond our own moon orbital assembly and nuclear propulsion will be necessary but reusable rockets will be needed to get off the surface of Mars too... they don't need to be recycled as such but they need to be in a condition where they will work when we need them to work.

    A space station is invaluable... the US didn't subsidise MIR or ISS(MIR2) for nothing there is research and testing in space that needs to be done, and what sort of orbital construction could take place without a space station?

    Once they have a nuclear powered orbital tug that can zip around the place they could remove a lot of the biggest bits of junk... and the tiny bits that make operations in space a bit risky... keeping that nuclear space tug in orbit makes sense so basing it on a space station also makes sense too.

    The ISS has shown that little scientific value comes out of it. Refining the same Mir-era tech (which is
    what the ISS is) is a waste of time.

    It disagree... some sort of station around Earth and around the Moon and even around Mars would be useful stepping stones... oasis's in the desert, where stores can be kept... landing on the surface of Mars might be risky... and landing the entire ship that came from Earth on Mars is totally impractical so putting it in Mars orbit while a lander goes down and perhaps processes local water into hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel to launch back up to the orbital component... perhaps bringing extra water for use as fuel to speed up the return home... it makes sense.

    Space X is a type of baiting operation. The yanquis decided based on the Buran that Russia will rush to copy
    their crap and sink itself.

    Who cares... Russia can take ideas from failed US programmes and benefit from them.... the Su-57 and Checkmate are not failures despite clear obvious copies of the F-22 and F-35 where they made a stealth Su-27/35 and then a light single engined cheaper model Checkmate. Enormous potential for Russian clients... and comments by the Russians that they are funding the programme themselves and therefore some third country wont be controlling who sells to whom suggests the Russians will be in full control of the programme.

    The methalox reusable project smells of taking the bait. But it does not seem to
    be a development priority so maybe it will be cancelled later.

    Who knows... years down the track a methalox liquid rocket motor might prove to be the cheapest way to launch scramjet powered hypersonic aircraft to the altitudes and speeds where they operate most efficiently.... and when they get to their normal flight altitude of 40km plus their water vapour contrails burning slush hydrogen will crystallize and reflect the heat of the sun doing more to reverse CO2 emissions and green house gases than wind farms and solar energy combined.

    The Yanisei project should be justified by some
    minimum load requirement to deliver components into LEO. Otherwise it is also a sink of money.

    It could be a moon launcher but could never be a Mars or Venus launcher, but for carrying material up to a space station for assembly of a space craft... a craft that will only ever operate in space to travel enormous distances designed to allow cooling and radiation protection and all the things you need for space exploration then it might be useful for the heavier blocks.

    Nuclear reactors would essentially have to be launched with enough shielding and protection that if they fall straight back to earth they would be OK... which means lots of weight to be useful and lots more to be safe, so heavy rockets might only be needed for direct trips to the moon or moon orbit or assembly of space craft in orbit... but that would be enough to justify their long term development.

    Building a base on the moon could be the first experience building a space craft to fly from earth orbit to moon orbit and back...

    All the yapping about Russia falling behind when it is the clear leader in the development of nuclear propulsion.
    But the timid support for this development as seen in the timelines is disappointing.

    They need to get it right... no half arsed... she will be good enough methods could be accepted... it has to work but it also has to be safe with levels of redundancy and safety... the western media wont care... it will be the Chernobyl space tug... but who cares what they say?

    Space program was sacrificed in favor national security, unfortunate but true

    If that were the case I would be fine with that...

    America creates all the bullshit Star wars and Star trek and Firefly etc etc... let them pay for it... it does not cost them anything... they can just print more.

    Unfortunately such credentials don't translate into the reserved, professional and diplomatic role of being the head of a national space agency, any more than Zhirinovsky's would

    Most politicians should stay off Twitter, but not a reason to say he is not doing an acceptable job.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I don't do traps.

    If you lose your temper and say something I will ban you for you could even apologise in private and that would be enough most of the time to prevent more serious action.

    Don't piss George off though...

    I understand people get angry and say things they wouldn't normally say just to get a rise or a reaction from the other person, and honestly I really don't like perma banning members... but some times I am given no choice because there has to be order.

    You can continue your rants about Rogozin... I have learned to filter them out and those that object to your crusade against the guy can put you on their ignore list to solve their problem with you, but that just means when you do say something interesting then a lot of members will miss out.

    You could dial back your venom and return to the normal... which is not to say you have to worship him or anything, but perhaps cope with it internally, and maybe return back to earth... you see I am sure the view from that ivory tower was wonderful for you but for the rest of us looking up all you see is bollocks and arse holes.... Tsavo talking about when Putin is gone and the Ukraine joins Russia again, or Van hating on Russia too and thinking Vaccines are made by the devil and are intended as mind control or population control or some such rubbish.

    Up to you.
    Follow the rules and don't piss George off... Smile

    Does Rogozin have you on his payroll Garry? unshaven

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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:34 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    I don't do traps.

    If you lose your temper and say something I will ban you for you could even apologise in private and that would be enough most of the time to prevent more serious action.

    Don't piss George off though...

    I understand people get angry and say things they wouldn't normally say just to get a rise or a reaction from the other person, and honestly I really don't like perma banning members... but some times I am given no choice because there has to be order.

    You can continue your rants about Rogozin... I have learned to filter them out and those that object to your crusade against the guy can put you on their ignore list to solve their problem with you, but that just means when you do say something interesting then a lot of members will miss out.

    You could dial back your venom and return to the normal... which is not to say you have to worship him or anything, but perhaps cope with it internally, and maybe return back to earth... you see I am sure the view from that ivory tower was wonderful for you but for the rest of us looking up all you see is bollocks and arse holes.... Tsavo talking about when Putin is gone and the Ukraine joins Russia again, or Van hating on Russia too and thinking Vaccines are made by the devil and are intended as mind control or population control or some such rubbish.

    Up to you.
    Follow the rules and don't piss George off... Smile

    Does Rogozin have you on his payroll Garry? unshaven

    The mod is warning the Rogozin troll to dial down his pollution of the forum. If PD needs to spew his hater bile somewhere,
    he should take it to any of the multiple pro-NATzO fora and circle jerk to his heart's content there.

    The working for Rogozin smear is so lame it makes Pavlov's dogs look like intellectual giants.



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