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    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:28 am

    Especially for the Navy's Su-24, the Su-30SM was considered their replacement
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:21 pm

    I thought the replacement for the Su-24 in general was the Su-34?
    The Su-30 can also do some of the missions but it depends on pilot training.
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    Post  George1 Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:05 pm

    lancelot wrote:I thought the replacement for the Su-24 in general was the Su-34?
    The Su-30 can also do some of the missions but it depends on pilot training.

    i said for the navy's su-24s. After all only Su-30SMs have been assigned to Naval Aviation not the Su-34

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:22 pm

    ...but yes you're right the Su-34 is set to replace the Su-24.
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    Post  11E Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:19 pm

    Of course it is logic to replace it with a modern platform, but it is one of the last classic cold war fighter bombers. Back in the past they were feared in the west and part of negotiations of Soviet aircraft in East Germany (replacing three Su-24 regiments for MiG-27s).

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:46 pm

    Yes those "Fencers" was quite a shock for the West. By that time the Soviets fielded a number of fearsome weapons like the "Backfires" and the "Sabres". Gorby made way too many concessions back then just to please his new found "friends".

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:31 pm

    George1 wrote:Especially for the Navy's Su-24, the Su-30SM was considered their replacement

    A wise choice I think. The su-24 and Su-34 are designed for strike roles that can carry AAM for self protection. But the Su-30SM is a multirole aircraft, so this gives the navy strike capabilities as well as interceptor capabilities which are better than the Su-24 and Su-34. When you pretty much have one aircraft it's better to have a multirole than a niche aircraft, that way they don't have to have additional aircraft for protection on certain missions and it also allows the navy to carry far more different types of missions.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:40 pm

    The multi-mode radar of the Su-34 can turn this monster into a useful interceptor/fighter as well.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:41 pm

    Slightly off topic. Ha e you ever noticed that the national interest website quite often has a vested interest in western aircraft and quite often in their articles leave out important information, what I have noticed will talk about western aircraft with the newest upgrades, while talking about Soviet or Russian aircraft in there most basic format. One article for example compared the A-10 and Su-25, talked about A-10 and upgrades, but when It came to the Su-25 forgot to mention SM and SM3 upgrades making out the aircraft to be almost obsolete. They also make comparisons which aren't based on what the aircraft was designed for or comparing types of aircraft. So in their wisdom lol! They have written an article comparing the Su-30 against the F-22, so as they put it a 4th gen aircraft (su-30) pitted against a 5th Stealth fighter (F-22) and their conclusion is the Su-30 would get destroyed. Completely dumb article and made to discredit Russian aircraft and the Su-30. I wonder when they will write an article on the Su-57 Vs F-4 or Su-35 Vs F-5 lol!
    Such dumb nonsense.

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/fighter-plane-match-su-30sm-vs-f-22-raptor-199415
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:42 pm

    Mir wrote:The multi-mode radar of the Su-34 can turn this monster into a useful interceptor/fighter as well.

    But it wasn't designed for such, and is more for self defense

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:47 pm

    Yes the Su-34 is not as fast and agile as some of it's other Su-mates but it's quite capable. Smile

    On 28 May 2018, it was reported that Russian Su-34s intercepted two Israeli Air Force F-16s over Tripoli, Lebanon, forcing them to retreat.
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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:18 pm

    Here you can see an in service Su-34 with a hot loadout - including a semi-active R-27 which can hit an air target at substantial range.

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 8 N321d010

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:40 pm

    In air to air combat it would be better to put all the big EW system pods on it and send it with the other sukhois to jamm enemy radars. Very nice for support and its missiles can be used for support too or better put long range r-37M and r-77M to attack and oblige enemy planes to go defensive while other sukhoi get in dogfight.

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:10 pm

    Mir wrote:Here you can see an in service Su-34 with a hot loadout - including a semi-active R-27 which can hit an air target at substantial range.

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 8 N321d010

    Curiois about the radome on that R-27. Anyone have a clue as to why it is like that?
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:24 pm

    For protection only. Look closely then you'll see the difference between the two types.

    Correction that is actually the radome for the semi-active radar variant of the missile in the above picture, but yes that serves the same role as well and its made from radar transparent material.

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 8 Aamr2710

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:14 pm

    I would imagine that one of reasons also for choosing the Su-30SM rather than the Su-34 was that they didn't need an aircraft with an armoured cockpit, naval aircraft most likely won't be getting close to anything that could cause damage from MANPAD, ground fire etc, will be launching missiles at stand off ranges against ships etc. And I would imagine the armoured cockpit would add a fair amount of weight.
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    Post  calripson Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:29 am

    Mir wrote:Yes those "Fencers" was quite a shock for the West. By that time the Soviets fielded a number of fearsome weapons like the "Backfires" and the "Sabres". Gorby made way too many concessions back then just to please his new found "friends".  

    The day Margaret Thatcher said Gorbachev was someone 'they could work with" I knew it was over for the USSR. The fox was in the henhouse. It was Andropov by the way who was Gorbachev's primary sponsor.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:59 am

    The multi-mode radar of the Su-34 can turn this monster into a useful interceptor/fighter as well.

    The Su-34 is very capable and in the air to air role should very much be able to hold its own... it is able to carry any air to air weapon any other advanced Flanker model can carry and it is big and has lots of fuel so could climb and launch its missiles at high speed to maximise their range even though its top speed is lower than other flanker types it has the fuel to utilise speed and altitude.

    Its main fault for the Navy is its price and the fact that it is probably too capable... the Navy just needs something that can engage surface targets and aircraft and the Su-30 does that just fine and is cheaper and simpler.

    The Su-34 is too much plane I suspect and would cost too much for features and capabilities they likely didn't need or want.

    They have written an article comparing the Su-30 against the F-22, so as they put it a 4th gen aircraft (su-30) pitted against a 5th Stealth fighter (F-22) and their conclusion is the Su-30 would get destroyed. Completely dumb article and made to discredit Russian aircraft and the Su-30. I

    Their national newspapers report the olympics in what ever terms makes them higher in the charts... gold medals are all that matters if they lead the gold medal table, but if they don't then add the other medals and see if that puts them on top, and if that doesn't then fake the chart to make it look like they did better even with less medals...

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 8 Americ10

    But in America American gold medals are worth more than Chinese gold medals right?

    In that sort of environment could you expect anything different... I mean it is clearly their national interest to be the best even if it isn't true.

    The exported Su-30s in poorer countries the F-22 would be problematic because the Su-30 was never intended to engage stealth aircraft as targets.

    But Russian Su-30s are going to get all the radar and engine and equipment from the Su-35s which are designed to hunt US Stealth Fighters, so I would expect Russian Su-30s upgraded to kill F-22 butt.... even more so in Russia within the most capable IADS on the planet.

    But it wasn't designed for such, and is more for self defense

    The Su-24 only carried R-60 and later R73 missiles for self defence but the Su-34 is fully capable of carrying all the newest Russian AAMs including the R-37M I suspect because its radar certainly should detect certain targets at suitable ranges for it to be used.

    In air to air combat it would be better to put all the big EW system pods on it and send it with the other sukhois to jamm enemy radars. Very nice for support and its missiles can be used for support too or better put long range r-37M and r-77M to attack and oblige enemy planes to go defensive while other sukhoi get in dogfight.

    Wouldn't want to dogfight in it, but it can certainly turn... but for BVR combat it would be as good as most other aircraft.

    Curiois about the radome on that R-27. Anyone have a clue as to why it is like that?

    SARH dielectric panel with the red protective cover removed... looks quite normal.

    I would imagine that one of reasons also for choosing the Su-30SM rather than the Su-34 was that they didn't need an aircraft with an armoured cockpit, naval aircraft most likely won't be getting close to anything that could cause damage from MANPAD, ground fire etc, will be launching missiles at stand off ranges against ships etc. And I would imagine the armoured cockpit would add a fair amount of weight.

    The Su-34 is rather more expensive too.... the Su-34 is a specialised strike aircraft intended to fly low and fast through all sorts of terrain, and rapidly find targets and engage them as it finds them.

    The Su-30 does not have as good a radar, and is also rather cheaper to buy and operate but can still engage air and surface targets with a variety of weapons that while extensive is not as broad or as heavy a load as the Su-34 can carry.

    The day Margaret Thatcher said Gorbachev was someone 'they could work with" I knew it was over for the USSR. The fox was in the henhouse. It was Andropov by the way who was Gorbachev's primary sponsor.

    My favourite quote about Thatcher was by the late Shaun Lock who said it was quite amusing that at Margaret Thatchers funeral they ran out of coal... Twisted Evil

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    Lennox


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    Post  Lennox Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:52 pm

    Holy f Garry do you speak Vietnamese or was that image translate???

    But yea the problem is also that the Su-34 is too heavy, its gross weight is twice that of the Mig-29 and 10 tons higher than the Su-33's. It also carries too much fuel.

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    Podlodka77


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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:45 pm

    Rostec began deliveries of upgraded Su-30SM2 fighters to the Russian Armed Forces
    MOSCOW, January 20. /TASS/. Modernized Su-30SM2 fighters and Mi-28NM helicopters began to enter the army. This was reported to TASS within the framework of a single day of military acceptance by the state corporation Rostec.

    "The United Aircraft Corporation Rostec has begun deliveries of modernized Su-30SM2 fighters for naval aviation of the Navy," the report says.



    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13478379

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:50 pm

    Just to be clear, what exactly are SM2's upgrades?
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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:00 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Just to be clear, what exactly are SM2's upgrades?

    Saturn Al-41F1S afterburning turbofan engines and N035 Irbis radar. This package probably includes OLS-35 optoelectronic targeting system.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:06 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Just to be clear, what exactly are SM2's upgrades?

    Saturn Al-41F1S afterburning turbofan engines and N035 Irbis radar. This package probably includes OLS-35 optoelectronic targeting system.

    And all the computers too.

    They change everything inside the plane with stuff used on su-35.
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    Post  ALAMO Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 pm

    ... and that actually closes the discussion, if the Russians are satisfied with Su-35 performance or not, considering a real war experience.

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:34 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:Rostec began deliveries of upgraded Su-30SM2 fighters to the Russian Armed Forces
    MOSCOW, January 20. /TASS/. Modernized Su-30SM2 fighters and Mi-28NM helicopters began to enter the army. This was reported to TASS within the framework of a single day of military acceptance by the state corporation Rostec.

    "The United Aircraft Corporation Rostec has begun deliveries of modernized Su-30SM2 fighters for naval aviation of the Navy," the report says.



    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/13478379

    The Su-30SM2 with tail numbers Nº80 and Nº81 are ready to be transferred from Irkut Aviation Plant

    We can assume that the other two are Nº78 and Nº79 and thus complete the Su-30SM squadron of the Baltic Fleet (previous numbers 70 to 77)

    So the total of Su-30SM delivered to the Russian Armed Forces reaches 118 machines (one was lost in Syria)

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/2022120832-OAQYe.html

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 8 8554e110


    https://www.aex.ru/news/2022/1/20/240560/

    January 20, 2022, AviaStat.ru – Four modernized super-maneuverable multifunctional two-seat Su-30SM2 fighters were first produced by the Irkutsk Aviation Plant To Russia Sergey Shoigu, Alexander Veprev, General Director of the Irkutsk Aviation Plant of PJSC Irkut Corporation - Deputy General Director of PJSC Irkut Corporation, reports TASS.

    In 2021, the Irkutsk Aviation Plant for the first time manufactured four modernized super-maneuverable multifunctional two-seat Su-30SM2 fighters in the interests of the naval aviation of the Navy,” Veprev said during a single day of acceptance of military products, which was held on January 20 at the National Defense Control Center of Russia.

    The head of the aircraft plant specified that as part of the modernization of the Su-30SM2 aircraft, imported equipment was replaced with domestic analogues
    The fighter received improved performance characteristics of the optical-electronic sighting and navigation complex, the complex of electronic countermeasures, the radar control system, ensuring an increase in the detection range of air targets. In addition, the range of used air-to-air and air-to-surface guided weapons against air, ground, including radar and sea targets has been expanded with an increase in the range of their application.

    "The re-equipment of a separate naval assault aviation regiment of naval aviation from Su-24M aircraft to Su-30SM2 aircraft will increase its combat potential by 1.5 times," Veprev emphasized.



    Last edited by AMCXXL on Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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