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    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:43 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Just to be clear, what exactly are SM2's upgrades?

    Saturn Al-41F1S afterburning turbofan engines and N035 Irbis radar. This package probably includes OLS-35 optoelectronic targeting system.

    And all the computers too.

    They change everything inside the plane with stuff used on su-35.

    So it's essentially a dual seater su-35 at this point.

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:28 am

    The external differences between the Su-30SM2 and the Su-30SM are:

    the presence of an enlarged antenna under the cabin
    the presence of devices for emitting passive jamming at the bottom (similar to the Su-35S) in the parachute container of drag.
    And there were two antennae at the bottom of the tow parachute container.


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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:40 am

    Holy f Garry do you speak Vietnamese or was that image translate???

    I speak only English sadly, that image was posted on this forum during the olympics and was already partially translated to english... I believe it was originally posted on a Vietnamese website.

    The Su-30 and Su-34 are different enough for both of them to be good planes in their own right, but the Su-34 clearly makes more sense for deepstrike for the Air Force, while the Su-30 is popular with the Navy, but was also used by the PVO when it was a thing as an interceptor fighter.

    . and that actually closes the discussion, if the Russians are satisfied with Su-35 performance or not, considering a real war experience.

    Very true, if there was something wrong they would perform a massive improvement of the Su-35 before updating Su-30s to that level if they weren't happy with it.

    @AMCXXL

    Thanks for posting that. Comments like upgrades adding Su-35 equipment into the Su-30 might be correct, but not particularly helpful in distinguishing an upgraded plane from a standard plane... your posts means we can spot the upgraded planes ourselves.... thanks again. Smile

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:28 am

    Su-30SM2 bort "81 blue"

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    Finty
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    Post  Finty Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:24 pm

    Thanks from me too for sharing those images. Shame the Russians won't be sending any to RIAT anytime soon!

    GarryB wrote:
    Holy f Garry do you speak Vietnamese or was that image translate???

    I speak only English sadly, that image was posted on this forum during the olympics and was already partially translated to english... I believe it was originally posted on a Vietnamese website.

    The Su-30 and Su-34 are different enough for both of them to be good planes in their own right, but the Su-34 clearly makes more sense for deepstrike for the Air Force, while the Su-30 is popular with the Navy, but was also used by the PVO when it was a thing as an interceptor fighter.

    . and that actually closes the discussion, if the Russians are satisfied with Su-35 performance or not, considering a real war experience.


    I must admit I can't remember their payloads right now but I have wondered before why they bothered developing the SU-34 when, from an economies of scale view it might have made more sense to develop the SU-30 as the interdictor to replace the SU-24. After all, they have a ground attack capability.

    Of course the SU-34 is still derived from the Flanker so there'll be economies of scale achieved but it's still interesting the route they took.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:06 pm

    these are the first Su-30SM (Su-30SM2) aircraft built by IAP under the contract for the supply of 21 fighters of this type for the Russian Naval Aviation , concluded by the Russian Ministry of Defense with the KLA on August 25, 2020. The delivery of these aircraft marked the resumption of deliveries of Su-30SM family fighters for the Russian Armed Forces, which had been suspended since 2018.

    Judging by the order of the tail numbers (78-81), the four Su-30SM2 fighters delivered by IAP under the state defense order of 2021 are designed to complete the rearmament of the 1st squadron based at the Chernyakhovsk airfield in the Kaliningrad region of the 4th Guards Naval Assault Aviation Regiment of the 34th mixed aviation division Aviation of the Baltic Fleet. Earlier in 2016-2018, the 1st squadron of this regiment (formerly the 72nd air base) was supplied witheight Su-30SM aircraft with blue tail numbers from "70" to "77". The main part of the regiment is still equipped with Su-24M and Su-24MR aircraft.

    In total, under previous contracts from 2012 to 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense received 116 Su-30SM fighters, of which 22 were delivered to the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy. In addition to eight Su-30SM fighters, which are in service with the 4th Guards Naval Assault Aviation Regiment of the 34th Composite Aviation Division of the Baltic Fleet Aviation, another 12 aircraft of this type (blue tail numbers from "35" to "43", "45", "47" and "48") in 2014-2016 entered the 43rd separate naval assault aviation regiment of the Black Sea Fleet in Saki (Crimea), and two more with blue tail numbers "22" and "23".

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    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4471112.html

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    galicije83
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    Post  galicije83 Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:19 pm

    But this planes do not have al 41 engines...they have old ones....
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:33 pm

    From what I understood in the article these have the AL41F1S engines
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:06 am

    I must admit I can't remember their payloads right now but I have wondered before why they bothered developing the SU-34 when, from an economies of scale view it might have made more sense to develop the SU-30 as the interdictor to replace the SU-24. After all, they have a ground attack capability.

    They probably considered doing that but side by side seating was chosen because as a strike aircraft being able to get out of your seat and relieve yourself, and perhaps get a hot drink or light meal, but mostly the communication possible in a side by side seating arrangement was considered worth it.

    The Su-34 design started as a replacement for the Su-24... as shown by its designation, and was intended to be a deep strike aircraft that reduced costs by not being a totally new design.

    The Su-30 was actually just an Su-27UB that was intended for roles where two crew are more use than a single seater.

    The original user of the Su-30 within the Russian AF was the PVO or air defence forces, who used it as a long range but slower MiG-31 with its big radar and ample weapons capacity... the MiG-31 rips out and tries to take down the bombers and attack aircraft at max distance while the Su-30 comes in behind looking for already launched standoff weapons and any enemy fighters.

    The multirole versions of the Su-30 were for export... the Su-30MKI and Su-30MKK were for India and China respectively and were not really used by Russia, so for much of its career it has been a very basic simple two seat Su-27, but of course over time it got updates and upgrades and now it is being turned into a two seat Su-35 which should give it quite decent capability in both the air to air and air to ground role.

    I suspect flying at very low altitude and at high speed the Su-34 would be rather better and able to carry a heavier payload further, but the Su-30 is certainly not a bad aircraft and will be faster than Su-34 at altitude and able to operate at higher altitude and also likely with better acceleration too, but both are able to perform fighter interceptor type functions.

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:43 pm

    Tolmachevo airport, Novosibirsk


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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:05 am

    Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 9 30007710

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:38 am

    Was the IRST upgraded too? Looks different.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:06 am

    Looks pretty much the same to me?

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    Dyslectic this morning! Laughing  

    IRST probably upgraded from 30 to 35 standard?

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:03 am

    Hmm I've been hearing conflicting reports on what the sm2 actually has in its upgrades. I know it will recieve the al-41f1 engine but some have said it isnt installed yet. Is the irbis e installed yet? Only asking because of conflicting reports in media and on web boards.
    medo
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    Post  medo Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:29 am

    Mir wrote:Su-30 for Russian Air Force #2 - Page 9 30007710
    From the picture we could distinguish few differences. It have some additional communication antennas, It have the same HUD as Su-35S and it have the same L-band AESA radar on frontal wing edge as Su-35S. I think this radar is in package with Irbis radar, so it could have Irbis radar in its nose instead of Bars-R.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:31 pm

    Ols-30 and ols-35. Not the same but very close IMO.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:22 pm

    Arrival of four Su-30SM2 fighters at the airfield of naval aviation of the Baltic Fleet

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    galicije83
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    Post  galicije83 Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:05 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:From what I understood in the article these have the AL41F1S engines

    No, they do not have AL-41F1S engines yet...i think they will get AL-41F1S engines maybe next year and probably for ВКС России, and this first batch of SU-30SM2 will be with old engines. made for SM version (it have more power then engines put in MK versions of Su-30).

    I guess also that this plane to not have Irbis E radar and OLS-35...They put new/old HUD same as on Su-35S, small one, not this new western made type made for Su-30SM in past...i do not know why they do that but they do...

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:16 pm

    galicije83 wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:From what I understood in the article these have the AL41F1S engines

    No, they do not have AL-41F1S engines yet...i think they will get AL-41F1S engines maybe next year and probably for ВКС России, and this first batch of SU-30SM2 will be with old engines. made for SM version (it have more power then engines put in MK versions of Su-30).

    I guess also that this plane to not have Irbis E radar and OLS-35...They put new/old HUD same as on Su-35S, small one, not this new western made type made for Su-30SM in past...i do not know why they do that but they do...

    Irbis can't work with su-30's engines. They need the engines from su-35. So if they got irbis then they got the new engines too.

    If I'm not wrong su-30 used to have a french HUD from thales. Su-35 has a russian made ones. They got ride of foreign equipement and replaced it with their own for new aircraft.

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    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:14 pm

    Which is it??
    If they dont have irbis then they can't be considered SM2s.
    Could it be that the russian press are screwing around again?

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:03 pm

    It should have it all - otherwise what's the point.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:13 pm

    Of course they have everyyhing. The engines and the radars/electronics are produced for years for the su-35 and the modernization of su-30 is prepared since long ago. So they bought everything for them including engines.
    galicije83
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    Post  galicije83 Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:12 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Irbis can't work with su-30's engines. They need the engines from su-35. So if they got irbis then they got the new engines too.

    If I'm not wrong su-30 used to have a french HUD from thales. Su-35 has a russian made ones. They got ride of foreign equipement and replaced it with their own for new aircraft.


    You are not wrong about HUD.

    I think that they made their own wide angle HUD similar to the Thales made for SM version, but on this one they put same as they have on all previous model of Su family. So i guess they just stick to the cheaper solution and one who is faster to produced and put this new ones only in Su-57s...

    They do not have AL-41 engines on this new Su-30SM(2) as they call it...all planes made for navy will be the same as this one..Only ВКС will get full SM2 version with Irbis radar and new AL-41 engines...

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:28 pm

    Disappointed but thanks for the updates galicije83!
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:32 pm

    Well they have helmet display making the HUD redundant and useless. I would even remove it if everything is displayed on the helmet glass or at least amovible so that you can retract it and see outside better.

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