Naval Air Defence systems

I think thats just an ordinary Pantsir-S1 module.

Bunch of details match with normal one, could be just a matter of standardisation but everything I've previously seen including official 22800 display model indicates -M is going to look more like Kashtan

or

Pics of Pantsir-M from Balancer but via Keypublishing forum

Rostec Introduced The Newest Marine Anti-Aircraft Complex "Pantsir-ME"
Here: http://rostec.ru/news/4520583

"One of the key imperatives of the cluster strategy of" armed "state corporation Rostec is the development and creation of new weapons, including the segment of anti-aircraft missile systems. Development of the "Pantsir-ME" complex is a logical element of the strategy. Create virtually every major complex systems require a fundamentally new scientific and technological solutions. As a result, the potential of striking complex "Pantsir-ME" has increased three or four times in comparison with the complex "Kashtan-M", - said General Director of the State Corporation Sergei Chemezov Rostec.

Thus, the affected area surface-to-air missile is increased from 10 to 20 kilometer range and from 3 to 15 km in height. All stages of the combat work - from search target before firing - are carried out in motion. The combined use of radar and optical control system provides all-weather capability and vsesutochnost his work. All processes are automated complex, the crew only provides monitoring and control.

High efficiency defeat PKR achieved through features embedded in SPAR "Pantsir-ME." Saved modular design of the complex: a command module and up to four combat units, depending on the ship class that allows you to build his defense flexibly. Combined Artillery missile arming provides effective engagement of all target types in the entire range of their operational use conditions, means and methods for counteracting from the perspectives of development up to the 2020-2025's.

Use in combat module complex "Pantsir-ME," Multifunction radar with a phased antenna array and the surface-to-air missile with a range of 20 km provides simultaneous firing four goals, as well as the defeat of the new types of small and upgraded ASM means of air attack and surface targets. Combat unit can work both independently and as part of the four modules of the battery. The complex may be placed on vehicles with a displacement of 300 tons.

@Foto: Rostec










...

They already tested a new missile with 40 km range. It's probably for Pantsir-M, the question is if already build pantsirs could fire it ?

Nice picture BTW. I tough the pantsir would take much more place than Tunguska/kashtan on ships, but it seems it fits in the same place.

It gives a true power-up to small ships because the kashtan was more like a double Hard kill system (guns+missiles) while Pantsir is more a medium range system with hard kill capabilities. It can protect an entire fleet from missiles when mounted on a small karakurt while the S-400 and redut equped ships can protect higher altitudes and ranges while being behind the Karakurt. Something like what we see in ground air defences.

A nice thing to do would be to integrate it to submarines in a retractable system (it could fit in a bulava luncher), specially in the north were they could found unprotected P-8 and shoot them from 20 km.

Komar SAM

Heaps of Pantsir-M pics http://bastion-karpenko.ru/pancir-m-imds-2017-1/ & http://bastion-karpenko.ru/pancir-m-imds-2017-2/

I think its got a limited inertial guidance so that might be where the course gets programmed?

Komar SAM

Ghibka with latest Igla version?

hoom wrote:I think its got a limited inertial guidance so that might be where the course gets programmed?

That's what I would think, but is there any way to tell definitively whether it's that or some sort of wire guidance? I tried searching Google images for rear-facing pictures of other Russian torpedoes to compare the connector on the Shkval with the wire guidance connector on them, but I couldn't find any.

Pantsir-M video from IMDS

http://pvo.guns.ru/naval/m11.htm

I'm not a russian speaker please need help with this article

my main question is , was the M-11 Shtorm SAM actually a dual role weapon ? can be used in ASUW role as well ?

thanks

nastle77 wrote:http://pvo.guns.ru/naval/m11.htm

I'm not a russian speaker please need help with this article

my main question is , was the M-11 Shtorm SAM actually a dual role weapon ? can be used in ASUW role as well ?

thanks

The universal shipborne complex M-11 was developed in accordance with the Resolution of the Council of Ministers of Ukraine No. 846-382 of July 25, 1959. The head of the system as a whole was NII-10 GKRE, chief designer GN Volgin. The TsKB-34, the TsNII-173 guidance drives, the NII-48 radio exploders, the NII-6 warhead, the NII-125 engine charges, etc., were engaged in launchers.

Initially, the M-11 complex with the CM-102 launcher was intended for ships of Prospect 1126. But the works on Prospect 1126 were terminated by Resolution No. 565-236 of 21.06.1961, in connection with which work was stopped on the M complex -eleven. But in a short time - on 27.07.1961 the Resolution of the Council of Ministers No. 846-382 issued on the continuation of work on the M-11, but already for the ship pr. 1123.

NII-10 in April 1962 completed the outline design of the M-11 missile complex and handed it over to the customer. In the process of developing a draft design, it was found out that it is impossible to build an SU M-11 on the basis of the M-1 complex because of the requirement of universality (over surface ships), doubling the range and noise immunity.

In May 1962, after the completion of the preliminary design of the project, 0KB-2 fundamentally changed the aerodynamic scheme and dimensions of the V-611 rocket, which required the complete processing of the SM-136 PU, the control loop, etc.

A new draft project was approved only in 1963.

Fire control system "Thunder"

The "Thunder" control system has two radar homing channels for one purpose, working to increase noise immunity in different wave bands and using a single-pulse directing method. At different frequencies, there are two radar channels for remote control of two missiles. This ensures that it is not possible to simultaneously suppress the two target and two missile channels with a single aiming and moving noise interference of high power.


Antenna post of the "Thunder" system on the "Kerch" BCP in Sevastopol in 1985 Nelson Photo
ZRK has an original design of the antenna control system post. The two lower latticed parabolic tracking antennas are mounted on the front surface of large box-shaped containers, in which the radioelectronic equipment of the target and missile channels is located. The two upper missile tracking antennas are installed on top of the containers, and between them is a horn antenna for transmitting commands. In the latest modifications, the horn antenna is replaced with a parabolic antenna and placed between the target antennas.

Anti-aircraft guided missile 4K60


Scheme of anti-aircraft missiles B-611 (4K60) A. Karpenko

The anti-aircraft missile V-611 (4K60), developed at the CB "Fakel", is a single-stage, solid fuel. The maximum flight speed is 1200 m / s, the average flight speed in the affected area is 650-800 m / s. The starting mass of the rocket is 1844 kg. High-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing about 120 kg is equipped with a non-contact fuse. A missile miss is 40 m (that is, the maximum distance at which the target will be struck with the necessary probability.) Missiles are delivered to the ships in running order, ready for launch, and did not require checks during the entire period of storage on the ship. The ready-made pieces of high-strength steel are used in the combat part.

Launcher


Scheme of launcher of M-11 air defense system A. Karpenko

Launcher of the M-11 air defense system on the aircraft carrying cruiser "Minsk"

The PU with the storage, feeding and loading device was developed by the TsKB-34 MOS together with the Bolshevik plant, therefore the UE initially had CM indexes (TsKB-34), and then B (Bolshevik). Chief Designer TD Vilkost.

The PU of the M-11 complex was produced in three versions.

On the cruiser pr.1123 are installed two PU B-189 with a two-tier arrangement of storage, feeding and loading devices. On each level there are 4 drums with 6 rockets each.

The device for storing, feeding and loading PU B-187 of ships pr.1134A is single-stage and is similar to the upper tier of the storage, feeding and loading device of the 1st variant.

Large anti-submarine ships pr.1134B are equipped with two PU B-187A with single-stage arrangement of storage devices in conveyor design.

Principle of combat work

An aerial or surface target, taken along the lines of target designation, is continuously accompanied by a two-channel "Thunder" control system over the signals reflected from the target. According to the tracking data, the corners of the PU guidance and the coordinates of the foreseen point of the missile meeting with the target are generated. After launching each missile on the line of command transmissions, request pulses are transmitted to which the transponder of the on-board missile equipment provides the signals, which are followed by their continuous tracking and the development of instructions for the guidance of two missiles on one target.

Testing

Ship tests of the M-11 missile system were carried out on an experimental vessel OS-24, the former KR Voroshilov pr.26, reworked in 1961 in Prospect 33 for testing various types of missiles.

Adoption

In September-October 1967, two serial M-11 complexes were successfully delivered to the head anti-submarine cruiser Moskva, pr. 1123.

Complex M-11 with a V-611 missile was adopted in 1969 and was named "Storm" . Later they were armed with ships of Prospect 1134A, 1134B and 1143.


Training firing of M-11 air defense missile system with BCP "Kerch"
By the end of the 1980s, the Shtorm was assigned the pseudonym Shkval . In the West, the complex received the designation SA-N-3 "Goblet" (Cup) .

The complex was not supplied for export and did not participate in combat operations.

Modernization

In 1972, the complex underwent a modernization, the task of which was to reduce the lower boundary of the zone of destruction and ensure the possibility of firing at maneuvering targets and after-driving. After modernization, the complex was named "Storm-M" and in the same year was adopted for service.

On ships pr.1134A and 1134B the control system "Grom-M" served not only the SAM, but also the anti-submarine complex "Metel".

In 1980-1986 the complex underwent modernization for firing at low-altitude RCC. SAMs were called "Storm-N" , and the rocket - V-611M (4K65) .

Information sources

A.Shirokorad "Rockets over the sea", journal "Engineering and Weapons" №5, 1996

Petrov AM, Aseev DA, Vasiliev EM, etc. "The Arms of the Russian Fleet of 1696-1996." SPb: Shipbuilding

A.V. Karpenko "Russian Missile Weapons 1943-1993". St. Petersburg, "PIKA", 1993

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

nastle77 wrote:http://pvo.guns.ru/naval/m11.htm

I'm not a russian speaker please need help with this article

my main question is , was the M-11 Shtorm SAM actually a dual role weapon ? can be used in ASUW role as well ?

thanks

The universal shipborne complex M-11 was developed in accordance with the Resolution of the Council of Ministers of Ukraine No. 846-382 of July 25, 1959. The head of the system as a whole was NII-10 GKRE, chief designer GN Volgin. The TsKB-34, the TsNII-173 guidance drives, the NII-48 radio exploders, the NII-6 warhead, the NII-125 engine charges, etc., were engaged in launchers.

Initially, the M-11 complex with the CM-102 launcher was intended for ships of Prospect 1126. But the works on Prospect 1126 were terminated by Resolution No. 565-236 of 21.06.1961, in connection with which work was stopped on the M complex -eleven. But in a short time - on 27.07.1961 the Resolution of the Council of Ministers No. 846-382 issued on the continuation of work on the M-11, but already for the ship pr. 1123.

NII-10 in April 1962 completed the outline design of the M-11 missile complex and handed it over to the customer. In the process of developing a draft design, it was found out that it is impossible to build an SU M-11 on the basis of the M-1 complex because of the requirement of universality (over surface ships), doubling the range and noise immunity.

In May 1962, after the completion of the preliminary design of the project, 0KB-2 fundamentally changed the aerodynamic scheme and dimensions of the V-611 rocket, which required the complete processing of the SM-136 PU, the control loop, etc.

A new draft project was approved only in 1963.

Fire control system "Thunder"

The "Thunder" control system has two radar homing channels for one purpose, working to increase noise immunity in different wave bands and using a single-pulse directing method. At different frequencies, there are two radar channels for remote control of two missiles. This ensures that it is not possible to simultaneously suppress the two target and two missile channels with a single aiming and moving noise interference of high power.


Antenna post of the "Thunder" system on the "Kerch" BCP in Sevastopol in 1985 Nelson Photo
ZRK has an original design of the antenna control system post. The two lower latticed parabolic tracking antennas are mounted on the front surface of large box-shaped containers, in which the radioelectronic equipment of the target and missile channels is located. The two upper missile tracking antennas are installed on top of the containers, and between them is a horn antenna for transmitting commands. In the latest modifications, the horn antenna is replaced with a parabolic antenna and placed between the target antennas.

Anti-aircraft guided missile 4K60


Scheme of anti-aircraft missiles B-611 (4K60) A. Karpenko

The anti-aircraft missile V-611 (4K60), developed at the CB "Fakel", is a single-stage, solid fuel. The maximum flight speed is 1200 m / s, the average flight speed in the affected area is 650-800 m / s. The starting mass of the rocket is 1844 kg. High-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing about 120 kg is equipped with a non-contact fuse. A missile miss is 40 m (that is, the maximum distance at which the target will be struck with the necessary probability.) Missiles are delivered to the ships in running order, ready for launch, and did not require checks during the entire period of storage on the ship. The ready-made pieces of high-strength steel are used in the combat part.

Launcher


Scheme of launcher of M-11 air defense system A. Karpenko

Launcher of the M-11 air defense system on the aircraft carrying cruiser "Minsk"

The PU with the storage, feeding and loading device was developed by the TsKB-34 MOS together with the Bolshevik plant, therefore the UE initially had CM indexes (TsKB-34), and then B (Bolshevik). Chief Designer TD Vilkost.

The PU of the M-11 complex was produced in three versions.

On the cruiser pr.1123 are installed two PU B-189 with a two-tier arrangement of storage, feeding and loading devices. On each level there are 4 drums with 6 rockets each.

The device for storing, feeding and loading PU B-187 of ships pr.1134A is single-stage and is similar to the upper tier of the storage, feeding and loading device of the 1st variant.

Large anti-submarine ships pr.1134B are equipped with two PU B-187A with single-stage arrangement of storage devices in conveyor design.

Principle of combat work

An aerial or surface target, taken along the lines of target designation, is continuously accompanied by a two-channel "Thunder" control system over the signals reflected from the target. According to the tracking data, the corners of the PU guidance and the coordinates of the foreseen point of the missile meeting with the target are generated. After launching each missile on the line of command transmissions, request pulses are transmitted to which the transponder of the on-board missile equipment provides the signals, which are followed by their continuous tracking and the development of instructions for the guidance of two missiles on one target.

Testing

Ship tests of the M-11 missile system were carried out on an experimental vessel OS-24, the former KR Voroshilov pr.26, reworked in 1961 in Prospect 33 for testing various types of missiles.

Adoption

In September-October 1967, two serial M-11 complexes were successfully delivered to the head anti-submarine cruiser Moskva, pr. 1123.

Complex M-11 with a V-611 missile was adopted in 1969 and was named "Storm" . Later they were armed with ships of Prospect 1134A, 1134B and 1143.


Training firing of M-11 air defense missile system with BCP "Kerch"
By the end of the 1980s, the Shtorm was assigned the pseudonym Shkval . In the West, the complex received the designation SA-N-3 "Goblet" (Cup) .

The complex was not supplied for export and did not participate in combat operations.

Modernization

In 1972, the complex underwent a modernization, the task of which was to reduce the lower boundary of the zone of destruction and ensure the possibility of firing at maneuvering targets and after-driving. After modernization, the complex was named "Storm-M" and in the same year was adopted for service.

On ships pr.1134A and 1134B the control system "Grom-M" served not only the SAM, but also the anti-submarine complex "Metel".

In 1980-1986 the complex underwent modernization for firing at low-altitude RCC. SAMs were called "Storm-N" , and the rocket - V-611M (4K65) .

Information sources

A.Shirokorad "Rockets over the sea", journal "Engineering and Weapons" №5, 1996

Petrov AM, Aseev DA, Vasiliev EM, etc. "The Arms of the Russian Fleet of 1696-1996." SPb: Shipbuilding

A.V. Karpenko "Russian Missile Weapons 1943-1993". St. Petersburg, "PIKA", 1993

Thank you I appreciate it, the google translation didnt work well for me
so I guess it was a dual role weapon !

ST. PETERSBURG, December 26. /TASS/. Russia’s latest seaborne Pantsyr-ME air defense missile/gun system will be tested on the land and at sea next year, Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau CEO Alexander Shlyakhtenko told TASS on Tuesday.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/983159

George1 wrote:

ST. PETERSBURG, December 26. /TASS/. Russia’s latest seaborne Pantsyr-ME air defense missile/gun system will be tested on the land and at sea next year, Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau CEO Alexander Shlyakhtenko told TASS on Tuesday.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/983159

Interesting tid bit from the link

The seaborne version can be outfitted with missiles from the land-based variant and also with the promising Germes-K missile, which can be guided by a drone. The Pantsyr-ME is set to replace the Kortik system

More:
http://tass.com/defense/983159

New Naval Tor development officially underway https://flot.com/2019/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B033/

In Russia, work is underway to create a naval version of the Thor anti-aircraft missile system. On this Friday, April 5, in an interviewRIA News Fanil Ziyatdinov, CEO of Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant Kupol (part of the Almaz-Antey aerospace defense concern), said.

According to him, the prototype of the Torah sea modification has already passed a series of tests that showed that the air defense system is highly effective not only on land, but also on water.

"The successful completion of the R & D project in this direction will allow the domestic fleet to be provided with a compact and effective means of air defense,” added Fanil Ziyatdinov.

Quote from https://ria.ru/20190405/1552378803.html

Prototype test mentioned would be the trailer version tested on Grigorovich which I'd understood to be a standard version not navalised.
Still unclear if they're talking about containerised or permanent mounting thats been previously shown concept for.

So job of naval Tor would be to deal with incoming missiles?

Range is too short for aircraft

TORs normal targets in the land model are munitions and missiles like guided bombs and hellfire missiles and similar weapons... they normally operate near the target they are defending... tanks or major SAMs.

They have always had superb radar systems and very cheap simple radio command guided missiles, so it would not break the bank to have enormous numbers of missiles and actually use them...

Palma CIWS delivered to latest russian navy ships and foreign also

Hi-tech firm delivers ten seaborne air defense systems to Russian Navy and foreign fleets

The Palma system is designated to strike air-and sea-launched weapons, including anti-ship missiles flying at low and extremely low altitudes and small-size unmanned fast-speed gunboats

ST. PETERSBURG, July 12. /TASS/. High Precision Systems Group has delivered ten Palma seaborne surface-to-air missile/artillery systems to the Russian Navy and foreign fleets, spokesman for the Nudelman Precision Engineering Design Bureau (part of High Precision Systems within the state hi-tech corporation Rostec) Igor Arkhipov told TASS on Friday.

"The system is installed on 12 Projects of the latest Russian warships and makes part of their inventory. Ten systems have already been delivered to Russian and foreign customers and they have entered service," Arkhipov said.

The Palma shipborne short-range anti-aircraft artillery system is designated to strike air-and sea-launched weapons, including anti-ship missiles flying at low and extremely low altitudes and small-size unmanned fast-speed gunboats.

As a defense component, the Palma is designated to defend both ships and naval bases, coastal infrastructure and aerodromes, and also other vital facilities.

The Palma anti-aircraft artillery system features integrated armament that comprises eight Sosna-R precision surface-to-air missiles with laser beam guidance and two AO-18KDE rapid-fire guns.

https://tass.com/defense/1068346

Odd thing to make a big release about
The 10* are:
1* each on 5* Gepard class (1* Russia, 4* Vietnam) commissioned 2011-2017.
2* each on 2* 22350, only 1 commissioned yet.
1* on 1* Tarantul (not sure when upgraded)

Its not like they suddenly delivered a bunch for some new order
Maybe the news is they've completed Sosna integration now?

Would make sense that now that they have land based systems going into service and presumably the sea based models working properly that now would be a good time to get it out there... they seem to be simple missiles... this sea mount doesn't have auto reloading but these missiles are relatively small and could be hand loaded I am sure, and being rather cheap simple missiles you could carry lots without breaking the bank...

As mentioned they could be used against speed boats... perhaps they should offer to sell some to the US Navy as it was having problems with speed boats and its solution of Hellfire missiles was not exactly cheap...

https://mobile.twitter.com/JivTurky/status/1213983085190103040

Launch of a tor missile from Grigorovitch frigate. Are those the old missile with capacity of only 8 ?

P.S : There is no thread for naval air defence system so it may be good to let this one opened and not mix naval versions inside threads for army and air defence systems.

Maybe, but i doubt it.

Since they are going to be placing them on ships, then it would stand to reason they would use the 16 missile load out, although that's not really necessary during those tests.

They mentioned that there would be two new types of Naval Pantsir developed to replace Kashtan-M, one would be for upgraded ships and one would be for brand new designs... I assumed they meant in terms of stealth the ones for upgraded ships didn't need to be as stealthy as the ones for new ships.

Of course with regard to TOR on new ships their vertical launch method is already pretty stealthy, so there is little need for different versions there... the older model can be replaced by the newer model as soon as practical as the smaller lighter missiles have better performance but are relatively cheap and simple command guided weapons with no seeker or complex onboard electronics.

The externally mounted deck modules seem to suggest they could also be temporarily put on ships that don't normally have such systems like on the deck of an aircraft carrier or cargo ship or cruise ship being used as a troop transport for instance...

Couple of good pics of the new Tor model displayed recently



On the one hand that fire-control unit could be a lot smaller if they put the electronics inside the ship.
On the other its going to be able to be mounted without taking up big internal volume which may be the more useful.

Quad-packed missiles in 4-cell VLS modules, could be what we've been seeing on some of the new models rather than Redut?
They seem to be pretty explicitly 4-cell modules, on the other hand 20380s have 3* 4-cell Redut.
And only the Udaloy model appears to have that fire-control unit.

On the one hand that fire-control unit could be a lot smaller if they put the electronics inside the ship.
On the other its going to be able to be mounted without taking up big internal volume which may be the more useful.

Quad-packed missiles in 4-cell VLS modules, could be what we've been seeing on some of the new models rather than Redut?
They seem to be pretty explicitly 4-cell modules, on the other hand 20380s have 3* 4-cell Redut.
And only the Udaloy model appears to have that fire-control unit.

If you look at the model with the missiles each of the missile quads in that model equates to twin missiles in the original, so effectively in that model there are 16 missiles, while on the original there would be 8 missiles ready to launch.

The naval model was rather different and used an under deck rotary system that spun around and positioned each of the missiles under a missile launch hatch for firing. Replacing those old launchers with these new fixed vertical launch tubes will be a much more efficient use of available space and greatly increase the number of missiles that can be carried... which are smaller and lighter but also faster and longer ranged and of course more accurate...

The missiles are not very tall so you could position them all over the deck...