US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

@ ISOS

I am not sure about Russia not caring about Usrael attacking Iran . I am sure Russia indicated in the past, how much they want to avoid war in Iran.

Agree that Iran should make a move now and buy Russian fighter jets. Since they do not have a nuclear detterent and they are still far from mass producing domestic fighter jet. The reason they have  not  done  so yet  , maybe more to do with finances right now.

@Parfar

I remember talking to you about the need to replace the Liberals in Iran. You said then that Iranians could not both fight the Americans and displace the Liberals. I disagreed. I was optimistic.

But now, I am saying that the Liberals and Bazzar has upper hand. And you say  ".. It is not that easy." I am now pessimistic. They may have all the levers of power in hand. All executive and judiciary and..


Edit : Iran needs, in the absence of nuclear detterent, to shoot down at least 50 F35 / F22. To deliver a decisive psychological blow to Americans, and hopefully stop further aggression. So any purchase of jets, must have this in mind. Therefore 50 Russian jets ( SU 57), with a 1:1 kill ratio ? At a cool 5 Billion USD. Or many more SU 30........

George1 wrote:USS Nimitz ordered back to Persian Gulf after Iran's supreme leader threatens revenge over slain scientist

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/11/28/nimitz-back-in-persian-gulf-iran-vows-revenge-for-killing-of-nuke-scientist/

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pentagon-orders-uss-nimitz-back-to-persian-gulf-after-irans-supreme-leader-threatens-revenge-over-slain-scientist

US DoD has denied the murder was the reason. The move back took place a couple of days ago when she returned from exercises with the Indian Navy, before the murder, to increase US air assets to help with the US withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan. The Gulf is actually the last place they would want a carrier task force if an action against Iran was to take place. Sitting duck springs to mind.

But still are you expecting them to start telling the truth now?

In a new show of military might, two American bomber aircraft flew from the United States to the Middle East on Thursday, local time, in a round-trip mission that US officials said covered a wide swath of the region and was a direct message of deterrence to Iran...

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/us-b-52-bombers-fly-to-middle-east-in-mission-to-deter-iran-20201211-p56mlb.html

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/167549/Iran-not-worried-about-USS-Georgia-entering-Persian-Gulf

If  these were  civilian ships or cargo ships  and  if  they were not hostile  and  had come at a time of peace ,  then  no problems .  But  since they are military vessels that have come  at a time of extreme  tension  and  they are nuclear  powered or armed  and that  they could be hit and  damaged or sunk  then causing massive pollution in these seas, that all countries use for fishing and  even a source of fresh water ,  then  they should immediately leave .

Therefore there is every concern  for Iran . We should  tell them to leave PG immediately . Both the yank and Usrael nuclear sub. If they do not leave, then their propellers should be wrecked  and they should be taken over and brought to Iranian port . The sailors arrested for  endangering the  environment  and livelihood of PG countries .

Posturing by nuclear subs  or nuclear armed  ships, should not be done at all. Let alone near  coastal and enclosed regions, where they are likely to be engaged by fast attack boats or mines. Now tell the  Yanks and Usraelis to get the fuck out. Or face the music........ ASAP. Using fishing nets in the Hormuz narrow straits is a good idea of capturing vessels without explosions........

If Iran attacks &/ captures any US warship/sub before a direct mil. hostile action on itself, that's an act of war, asking for B-1/2/52 & F-15E/18E/F strikes on it, with Turkey not missing an opportunity to come & take Azerbaijan. 
The Gulf of Tonkin incident was used to justify attacking N. Vietnam leading to a long war in SE Asia with Ms of killed, maimed & displaced. Iran should be careful not to repeat it.

The Americans should be careful.  They could even sabotage one of their own nuclear vessels, by running aground . Polluting PG waters . And  I think it is the Yanks and Usraelis guilty of act of war by bringing this shit, into PG waters, a potential hot zone . So no disagree strongly.

Yankee doodoolee dandy...... get the hell out.  Or Submarine is impounded by Iran. War or otherwise. I think no nuclear powered or armed vessels should be allowed in PG, from any country. Because of potential accident or damage and pollution risk. Putting lives of millions at risk.

The Yanks supposedly treat the sewage discharged from their ships, while in PG waters, so as not to offend the sensibility of Muslims or cause environmental pollution. But plutonium is far more poisonous than American human excrement.........

Trump Threatens Iran Over Iraq Embassy Attack
US Marine Corps General Mackenzie: We're not going to go to war with Iran	US Considering Closing Embassy in Baghdad Over Rocket Attack   Netanyahu Hints Military Action Against Iran Is on the Table   Report: Israel Using Gen. Milley to Pass Messages to Biden About Iran

I suspect that Trump will order a strike as a parting shot- his foreign & domestic policy essentially failed & he'll do anything to make the Biden admin. clean up his mess & fail at that too.

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Trump Threatens Iran Over Iraq Embassy Attack
US Marine Corps General Mackenzie: We're not going to go to war with Iran	US Considering Closing Embassy in Baghdad Over Rocket Attack   Netanyahu Hints Military Action Against Iran Is on the Table   Report: Israel Using Gen. Milley to Pass Messages to Biden About Iran

I suspect that Trump will order a strike as a parting shot- his foreign & domestic policy essentially failed & he'll do anything to make the Biden admin. clean up his mess & fail at that too.

He just sounds like a tbh....terror master this terror mast that.
Also I doubt trump has the support for such. Military will not let it happen. Into the final throes of his leadership. Pardon some people here and there and will attempt to ring fence his homily from prosecution but not much else.

We are getting to the end of Trump's mandat. The attack could come this week or the next one. Some day it will be the 3rd January.


Tony
@Cyberspec1
·
27 déc.
#Iran #Israel #USA
Israeli Sub equipped with Cruise Missiles has reportedly crossed the Suez Canal & is on it's way to the #Persian_Gulf. It could potentially take part in US action against Iran. The Iranians have said they will *sink* the Sub should it arrive near their waters

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theaviationist.com/2018/03/29/heres-why-the-claim-that-two-israeli-f-35-stealth-jets-entered-iranian-airspace-does-not-make-any-sense/amp/

I do not agree. It does make sense to take advantage of existing planes for different missions. The idea that F35 could only be launched from Usrael , is not necessarily true. They could be launched from any territory in ME.

The idea of limited range , does not add up either . Since stealth refueling Tankers , could have been used. However , if we are to believe this claim , then it is an embarrassment for F35. Since sirens were sounded. And aircraft was detected. Next time , it could be shot down. Just imagine !

The USS Nimitz is finally allowed to go home. Tensions dropping hopefully.

Geo_monitor
@colonelhomsi
Pentagon: the US administration is not planning to send any aircraft carrier to replace the USS Nimitz carrier, which withdrew from the gulf waters..

Only 23% of Americans can correctly find Iran on a map.

https://www.russiadefence.net/t6939p775-decline-of-the-western-society#312497

Only 23% of Americans can correctly find Iran on a map.

For which Iran should be truly grateful.

I seem to remember something like 80% of Americans don't have and have never used a passport and that in a lot of states most people have never been across state lines...

GarryB wrote:

Only 23% of Americans can correctly find Iran on a map.

For which Iran should be truly grateful.

I seem to remember something like 80% of Americans don't have and have never used a passport and that in a lot of states most people have never been across state lines...

As the saying goes...."War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." - Ambrose Bierce

I think that we humans have much less freedom than we believe . Would God leave the world in the hands of infants?  Surely that is what humans are. So we are all governed by natural laws. Although we feel that we are the masters of our own destiny.

For this reason , I worry less. Since I know that the world is in the hands of it's keeper. But most people deny this. Since they see war and disease and pain and predation. Yet they wish they could see God or an Angel. But if they saw God , many would hate through ignorance. And if they saw an angel, then the angel would part their body from their sinful souls.

They say that you own what you break. But I say that you become what you break. Kill a man and your children will take his place. Kill an animal, and become the animal.

So they killed our children. And their children have replaced our missing children. And they have to now kill their own. Poetic justice.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/us-politics/woman-shot-capitol-riots-ashli-babbit-b736886.html%3famp

I think that we humans have much less freedom than we believe . Would God leave the world in the hands of infants?

Which is a conflicting way to think.

I really don't think it is healthy to blame all the bad things in the world on a god.

Being an athiest I do not feel bound by the rules of any religion, only the rules of the human society I currently live within. There is a lot of overlap because most ethical rules are based on religious ones.... or is that the other way around?

So we are all governed by natural laws.

Not if you look at the rate at which we break them.

Although we feel that we are the masters of our own destiny.

To a degree we are, though it is easier to ruin our lives than to enrich them... I could go out right now and murder someone in cold blood and ruin my planned future of not being in prison.... but the society and culture I grew up in would teach me not to do that as an easy option because if everyone did that I could be the one getting murdered, so society frowns on this...

For this reason , I worry less. Since I know that the world is in the hands of it's keeper. But most people deny this.

So WWI and WWII was gods plan?

I personally think if there is or are gods then this universe is a testing pit to try souls and to judge them on what they do and why.

Giving us free will and yet expecting blind faith is irrational isn't it?

Free will means it is our fault, and making us not just able to sin but actually prone to sin and then relying on some of these sinners to carry your word to the rest is flawed to say the very least.

With so many sinners about the risk of someone controlling a group of people who can't read and therefore cannot get gods message first hand from any bible, and indeed the fact that any bible is just an interpretation of someones word to start with makes it terribly prone to abuse... we constantly hear people saying they believe something because it is in the bible... which bible and who checks?

Most languages are open to interpretation and after being translated several times by amateurs the chances of the real meanings being lost or distorted is enormous... the people who translated these texts got the job because they wrote pretty, not because they were linguistic experts. In fact from what I have read they often drew pictures of men shoving things up their arses in the margins of the pages like a university joke magazine.

Since they see war and disease and pain and predation.

In the olden days few people lived past their 40th birthday and very few lived much more than 60 years at best, so at most 60 years of suffering and pain as a test for all eternity is probably a very exhaustive test to see what sort of person you are and could be.

Yet they wish they could see God or an Angel. But if they saw God , many would hate through ignorance. And if they saw an angel, then the angel would part their body from their sinful souls.

If god is everywhere and made everything surely a minute to say high and to look after his stuff a bit better would not be too much to ask.

The alternative is that god expects us to not ever actually know the truth but take the word of a lot of other people who are by their own admission sinners.

Just seems to me a lot simpler to appear to everyone... even if he did it in groups of a couple of thousand at a time... sure there would still be people who think it was a mass illusion or the government did it with new technology but for most normal people they could accept it and get some peace.

It seems to me that in practise gods will actually seems to come down to luck.... good or bad... which means there is no way you can be sure there actually was any real intervention or not, which makes god a little unnecessary.

So they killed our children. And their children have replaced our missing children. And they have to now kill their own. Poetic justice.

Which essentially comes down to they are bullying you so you gloat when they get bad luck, like getting caught and told off by their mum in front of everyone...

Now about this Jerusalem Post report about  assassination of Fakhrizadeh. If we are to believe this report to be true, that is a Mossad agent unofficially disclosed that Usrael carried out attack using  a weapon, then we have to wonder why they have made it public?

The gains  could be many, from provoking a response from Iran , leading to justification for a war  by Usrael. Or  trying to put the Iranians off the scent , because  they are getting close to identifying the plot. Or simply to embarrass Iranians and say here is mud in your eye! Or some other reason. For example Biden wanting to wash his hands off this incident, by shifting blame and allowing for............. " talks".

But for this story to be believable, then they have to provide new specific information about the attack, that only they could know about. And prove this to be true by evidence. This is not the case here.

This report is similar to the one earlier about the " assassination" of Mossad agent by " Iran" in a shooting of his car. Again no evidence to support, and seems politically motivated to take the sting out of the situation for Iran and appease the Iranians against a real retaliation and possible war.

It looks like the Usraelis are in two minds about war with Iran.

Wow, double wow if true    

spriters
@neccamc1
·
42m
The United States tells the Security Council to cancel a previous Trump administration request to re-impose UN sanctions on Iran.Washington will accept an invitation from the European Union to hold talks with Iran.

43m
Diplomatic website, according to an American official: It is possible that Biden will announce tomorrow a return to the nuclear deal with Iran


Maybe it is

A senior US official told Reuters Thursday the US was "ready to show up" if the European Union extended an invitation to host talks with Iran.

"The United States would accept an invitation from the European Union High Representative to attend a meeting of the P5+1 and Iran to discuss a diplomatic way forward on Iran’s nuclear program," US State Department spokesperson Ned Price said Thursday.

https://sputniknews.com/world/202102181082120225-us-ready-to-accept-eu-invitation-to-attend-p51-meeting-with-iran-state-department-says/

Video in the link.


60 Minutes
@60Minutes
In January 2020, Iran launched the largest ballistic missile attack ever against Americans. 60 Minutes has obtained unreleased footage of the incoming warheads.

Sunday, David Martin reports on the attack that nearly caused war between the U.S. and Iran

https://mobile.twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1365330714720407557

Biden will demand unreasonable conditions on Iran. It is all BS window dressing designed to paint America as peace loving.
Biden has already attacked "pro-Iranian" militias in Syria. So which is it? Peace or war?

This attack didn´t "nearly cause" war between Iran and the dumbasses in Washington. It was the murder of General Soleiman.

Hole wrote:This attack didn´t "nearly cause" war between Iran and the dumbasses in Washington. It was the murder of General Soleiman.

Hard to tell that to a dumbass unfortunately...