US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

kvs wrote:The Americans threw a tantrum when Russia demanded no sneaky sanctions on Iran because of the war
in Ukria.   Naturally, the western fake stream media is trying to paint this as Russia trying to use Iran
to reduce the sanctions pressure.   But the retards never explain how Iran can be used by Russia this
way (i.e. the trade volume is not there and Iran does not supply Russia with critical products.)

Even when this attack is supposedly retaliation for some Israeli airstrike in Syria days ago, I am pretty sure Russia did align with Iran and other countries in the flurry of consultations that took place end of last year. Now US will need to put their attention on that theater too, and hear the wailing of Israelis which were certainly hit in this attack and their demands to nuke Iran, maybe someone else wants to join the party? To think that US were spending their time thinking about how to overstretch Russia

False Flag?
The RAGE X - Conflict News -:
@theragex
·
1 Std.
Another video from Iranian Tabriz, from where Fatah-110 missiles were launched at U.S. and International Coalition facilities in Iraqi Erbil.

#Iraq #Iran #USA

https://twitter.com/i/status/1502788530879275008

Biden's potentially reversing Trump's 2019 designation of the elite Iranian military group as a Foreign Terrorist Organization is being seen as a final huge concession toward Tehran, with the immediate effect of providing energy markets relief as additional oil supplies are badly needed for Europe.

Ohhh poor America making all these concessions to recover a deal they broke and Iran continued to follow even after the US and European members broke several fundamental aspects of the deal, yet still wanted Iran to comply with their part of the deal.

Amazing.

Of course . The Americans or others will try to take advantage of the recent turmoil . But whose fault is this ? In Syria , there were reports of government troops planting small arms among the corpses of the protesters , to justify their killing . I think I saw this myself on BBC . Did the Syrian government fire the first shot ? Whoever fired the first shot is guilty . whoever drew first blood . The person who responds in defence , is not guilty . It does not matter , if he fired back with a sling shot made in Japan , or a harpoon made in Sweden or an M16 made in USA or an AK47 made in Soviet union . He has to defend himself , in any way he can .

So if we have to blame anyone , we have to blame the instigators and aggressors and those that reject peace and democracy . And are the Kurds , this time , doing that ? Or are they , like other Iranians shouting for an end to dictatorship and for freedom , on the street ? And are Iranians in all corners of Iran , not subject to attacks ? Who fired the first shot ?

The Kurds have always had their personal firearms , even under the Shah . They were allowed this . The problem , is one of lack of political development of democracy . A democratic system is capable of addressing the nationalities and minorities question , without bloodshed . I do not dislike the Kurds , because they wish for separate homeland , they have a right to voice this . But in a democratic system , any addition or subtraction to territory , is a matter for a national vote .

In a democratic national vote , also involving the Iraqi and Turkish nations , the Kurds do not carry enough votes for a separate homeland . But this time , they have not even been voicing a wish for separatism . Only a slogan common to all other Iranians . I do not dislike the Kurds , because some are communists , it is their right under a democratic system , to have free political affiliations . They could dance around a fire , and worship the moon God , It is their right .

I do not dislike the Kurds , because they want to speak their language in their region . But they will not understand others , if their neighbours speak Persian or Arabic or Turkish . Then they must speak those languages too . Do in Rome , as the Romans do !  In fact I do not dislike the Kurds in any way .The problem is a lack of a democratic central government . The Kurds in this case , only responded to the first shot fired by security services . The fault tests with them . Iran military should withdraw troops from all the streets of Iran . Unless there is a need to respond to armed gangs . They should leave peaceful protests alone .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VZqVJVR9IBc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=831LvHXLXx8

But whose fault is this ? In Syria , there were reports of government troops planting small arms among the corpses of the protesters , to justify their killing . I think I saw this myself on BBC .

That is hilarious because wasn't it the British that used to plant weapons on Irish nationals they shot to prove they were IRA and the shooting was justified?

Don't believe BBC.

The British planted weapons on dead Irish ,they shot ? I did not know that , but seems like clever tactic , used by many . I do remember this being reported in Syria . But the following video shows clearly that protesters were shot , and they had no weapons on them . The result ? A civil war , extremism and yanks pumping weapons into area to turn protests into civil war . So both internal and external  factors contributed to the disaster . But if there was no killing in the first place , then the Americans could not have taken advantage . Exactly similar situation to Iran now . Protests , however large and prolonged , can be managed without using guns or killing . In Iran the security force elements , seem deliberately to kill kids  to provoke a civil war . Today a paper called democracy ( mardom salari ) was the only one mentioning the role of plain clothes ( security ) in shootings . So we are facing a plot by elements inside and outside , to cause a war , create a crisis situation . The right wing are to blame . The Bazaar is closed ! I wonder why ?


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qu64L74LC1k

At the start in Daraa, we see no guns in the crowd , only a few throwing stones . But we do see " plain clothes " either security or provocateur or security provocateur ! Shooting at unarmed crowd . This crowd could be controlled easily by a line of long shields .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I7n8Myvw3T4

The British planted weapons on dead Irish ,they shot ? I did not know that , but seems like clever tactic , used by many .

It worked both ways... often a group of IRA would attack something and if there was a chance of one getting away they might take all the weapons so they could pretend the evil Brits are killing unarmed civilians again... but equally when dealing with the IRA it was expected to be a quick draw and if you weren't fast enough you were dead so shooting early was therefore the best policy... except when the intel is wrong.... carry a spare gun with no prints and no serial numbers you get out of the police lockup and if you shoot someone and can't find what you thought was a gun drop your spare nearby... after wrapping his or her fingers around it.

The west don't care about freedom or democracy... what they do care about is access to resources and markets and control and they are happy to kill any and every one in their way.

If you really do believe in human rights and peace and democracy... don't have anything at all to do with the west... don't accept their money or their support... don't even talk to them.

Most people who want to bring peace and democracy to their own country want to do so for the benefit of the people... the west will bring democracy and peace to the Ukraine till everyone there is dead and not bat an eyelid about that.

It is truly dealing with the devil.

Some in Iran are talking about a referendum , a peaceful resolution , and formation of a democracy . They see protests as a means of pushing the clergy and their backers to agree to this . The numbers on the street in different cities , are in order of hundreds to a few thousand , but not millions . However looking at some statistics on support for new Republic , and against the present Republic , is about 70% . The Iranians abroad , who do not fear persecution , have shown through protests  that a majority are indeed against the Islamic Republic . The reason we do not see protests in their millions in Iran , I believe is fear ! Since protesters are being shot in some numbers . However , some are calling for a big show of numbers , in a sense a practical referendum in itself . If the people put aside fear and come out in big numbers , then there is a small chance , that the right wing establishment , will agree to a referendum . But I doubt it , seeing that only a couple of days ago , the order was given to  fire with machine guns in some towns , against unarmed protesters . Therefore out of the possible outcomes of this impasse , an armed conflict seems the most probable . Of course there will be all sorts of players in this , the outcome unknown . Perhaps the true democracy , only comes out of a gun . Perhaps the right to have guns , as in America , is the only true way for a level playing field . They called a Colt sidearm , the " peacemaker " for a reason ! The fastest gun , rules the roost !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8XkHsinz7oU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwb3P0fuM1c

LOL .

Any truth to this? It seems as if the protests are slowly morphing into something more dangerous. The authorities in Teheran will have to adapt and anticipate, hoping for things to quietly fizzle out whilst they keep a to a certain extent a lid on the fire ain't working.

Also, what's the deal with the support network of commie Kurds/ foreign Intel agencies in the border areas of Iraq? True or overblown for propaganda purposes?

Dont trust it one bit. Kurds largely in the pocket of western NGOs, nonprofits and intel agencies. the whole movement for change of Iranian government whether peaceful or violent is backed by globohomo. Of all the powers on this earth they serve the most wicked of interests. They do not believe in nations, ethnicities or religion. They are literal globalists who work for the annihilation of christian, nationalist, patriarchal west. If this is the case then how would they ever ultimately support egyptian, arabic, persian, pashtun and indian islam? They see these "constructs" as obstacles in their desire for the ultimate homogenization of everything religious people hold dear. This includes hindu and buddhist societies.

So this is why I see any protest against the Islamic republic of Iran as evil and connected to the neocon/neolib plans. This is why I personally would never support it, for whatever that is worth. I'm just a random forum poster. I sympathize with the simple kernel of truth behind the protests, and I do believe the current Iranian Islamic republic needs to atone for cruelty and hardened heart against it's own people. The issue right now is that any kind of protest against the Islamic republic of Iran is an existential evil and ruin to Islam and the Persian people.

Again this is just the opinion of a humble rando on a defense forum, but I hope it makes sense.

Yes , you like " Frank" , I heard he is a good guy  , and does other things too ! I heard the tough kids on the block love him , but not the Iranian kids .....


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqTfBysL0wE


kian heard Frank's name , and saw him ?And ....


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvc_fahGMmQ

FP wrote " Ignore the CIA-sponsored twitter commentary . " Indeed ignore everybody's commentary , because everybody has their own interests and will put a different spin on events , to justify their actions / inaction . When I watch these YouTube clips , I turn the volume off , and just watch the pictures , because it is difficult to fabricate the video , and it gives much more info . Now , in no place , have I seen protests coming to an end ,or protesters displaying separatist slogans or being supported by Pakistan . All that I see , are protesters , all without weapons , shouting in the street , and Army and security opening fire . This is a fact . Now if armed opposition formed in more than one spot in Iran , then the days of IR , is at an end .

https://t.me/Cultures_of_Resistance/12756

There is not too much video material coming out from places in Iran, but what does seep through is pointing towards escalation.

Above is a link to a video showing the IRGC/Basij fighting street battles with Kurdish protestors/rebels in Javanrud.

Also nomadski what's the deal with the wardrums sounding over Iraq Kurdistan? 10 day ultimatum sounds weak, and missile strikes are for the domestic public front.

The right wing got the war , they wanted . They were desperate to somehow ignite a fight , to achieve their reactionary aims to suppress the protests , through violence . They tried against R . Azer , and also tried against " ISIS" , but this one seemed the easier battle . Fixed targets , little diplomatic or international fallout , unlike " ISIS" the hidden " enemy " , this one is in plain sight . Now they hope that attention will be diverted towards the Kurdish enemy , and national unity will be broken . A lesson or justification to use heavier lethal force also in Baloch region or Caspian coast . But I doubt they will succeed . The Kurds have every right to defend themselves , in unprovoked attack by state terror apparatus . " ultimatum " , means using planes and Tanks to attack towns and villages ......

Who is attacking who ? Who is sending troops into whose territory ? Are the Kurds sending pishmarge into Tehran ? Are they sending helicopters or APC ? Are their fighters advancing into Azeri or Farsi villages ? Are they surrounding them with troops ? Are they cutting electricity to them ? Are they using machine gun in their city ? No they are not ? They are defending own towns from attack . These are the facts . Not suppositions . Argue from facts . Iranians should not allow the Mullah right wing regime to start ethnic conflict or the yanks to do the same . Same objective , different clothes . Anti-socialist and anti-democratic elements both .

FP wrote " With such reductionist reasoning as yours it's possible to level the same accusations against Russia in the Ukraine, yet we know that reality is more complicated. Sometimes you have to act preemptively, or your neighbours are in bed with your enemies and are plotting against you, or there has been some previous conflict that has never gone away and its resumption is inevitable.

Iran is not some land mass with a collection of different ethnic communities. It is before anything else a state, and a government, with its own set of laws. The Kurdish protestors are doing a lot more than what it took for the Yellow Vests in France to get a baton over the head for. Namely they are challenging the Iranian government, breaking the law, hinting at separatism and fighting with the police. That sort of thing is grounds for the usage of force to restore law & order in any country.

And I'm not making a judgement about the protesters' grievances here, I'm simply saying that every state will try and preserve itself and will try to put down insurrections that challenge their authority - this is inevitable. I'd also point out that the Iranian government itself is legitimate, fundamentally. Not necessarily in the Kurdish-populated regions, where it asserted itself with violence in the first place not long after the Islamic revolution; but generally, in wider Iran it was and is legitimate, it had enough of the population's support to overthrow the Shah, and enough support to have withstood Western attempts at pressure and isolation since then. It also has elections, a parliament and other organs, through which laws can be challenged and modified to some extent; more than in many of its neighbors at any rate.

This will not end with a new 'revolution', this will end, if it starts, as a new Yugoslavia or Syria. There is no groundwork for a new revolution. No new political theories, no popular political parties or charismatic leaders. What there is is a Western/Israeli objective to destabilize Iran and to this end they will support minority nationalists, corrupt politicians and armed groups.

Ideally the Kurdish groups and the Iranian authorities will sit down at the table and agree to address some popular grievances, while dismissing further outside attempts to inflame the situation towards armed conflict. "


Well point by point : Reasoning wrongly exists , but you have not pointed at any specifics as to why my reasoning is faulty . The only parallel with Ukraine is that there exited also an extremist and unpopular right wing apparatus , chose to stage ethnic war , despite all constructive efforts by the Russian side . However in Iran , everybody as well as the Kurds and others are subject to an undemocratic system . They are all rising up , unlike Ukraine . You can not use pre-emptive strike to justify ethnic genocide . If Kurd groups had actually crossed into Iran in massive numbers , then you could justify intercepting them . But here this is not the case . They were attacking unarmed protesters .The Iranian state is not legitimate . In the past election the voter turnout was not enough to form government , only 25% in places . The Kurds are not doing anything that other Iranians were not doing . Until the military started to bring APC into battle ! Then apparently , some defended by small arms ! The only unusual activity they did was hinting at separatism ! WOW , we better send Tanks into Glasgow and open fire with machine guns , against those pesky Scottish ! After all and any government would do this ? You mistake insurrection with revolution . What you describe as Israeli / western apparatus following it's own agenda and fomenting unrest is what is happening now , they are in power now ( or have you not been paying attention ) through this illegitimate right wing liberal apparatus and very compromised security , things can only get better . Ideally we get a democratic republic .

Nomadski I can tell you have skin in the game. I feel bad as I can tell this isnt just geopolitics discussion for you. I can say one thing for sure though. All those protesting against Iran are being aided thru intel and funds by globohomo. I'd be more sympathetic if it was any other outsider other than globohomo. Why? Because the luciferian bastards are horrific for one, and for two of all those cliques who hold waaaaay too much power it is them. They are fighting against Russia because between them and China they are logically the weaker target. Less homogeneous and more western with larger countercultural bases from which to foment revolution or regime change and from this to balkanize Russia into smaller petty republics.

The cliques in power here in the west do not believe in nation or extended kin or God or patriotism. They are amoral, machine minded "world citizens". Working with them to overthrow your regime is like working with the devil, and like with the devil there is always a price to pay. The new Persian leaders will be absolute puppets. Try to find a way to clean them out? Look at Pakistan with Imran Khan. Your courts will rule against you even when it is clearly against law. Say he succeeds somehow? The military will assassinate him.

If you truly believe in sovereignty and long term health of your society you would resist any revolution aided by the west.

True , it is for me more than just the fact that Iran admin is now hand in glove with Russia or China , so I turn a blind eye and say nothing , because it suits Russia or China  or that I say something because Iran admin is not hand in glove with America or Europe . And the present Iranian admin , is an illegitimate and extremist right wing apparatus , that did not and can not serve the best interests of Iranian society . The situation in Iran strangely is very similar to Myanmar . A security / military right wing apparatus , aided by the Buddhist clergy , that sanctified their anti-social democratic rule and violent suppression of pro-democracy movement . Yet China , supposedly the largest workers democracy , aids their military , because it " suits" it's national interests .

The impression that the removal of present admin in Iran , through a revolution , will automatically lead to establishment of a pro-western canton , a right wing and overtly liberal / dictatorial and anti-Russian / Chinese admin , is in my view not warranted . This view , I think relies on impressions gained by media reporting of protests by Iranian diaspora in Europe / America , and not on the rather scarce footage of actual protests by Iranians in Iran . They carry very different messages . The former is much more monarchist / liberal right wing and hence not entirely democratic . The latter is much more democratic , relies on local population of students and teachers and workers , asking for democracy .

So the democratic forces , although less systematically organised , and free to voiced their views publicly in Iran , are much more numerous , and have in the longer term , if not subject to brutal suppression , much more chance of forming a true democratic republic . A revolution is like an onion , unfolding with different forces . Also even if these Iranians are pro-West or anti-East , it is their right to voice this , but unlike now that many of them hold power , rather awkwardly and cryptic / hidden  , after the revolution , they can show their faces openly without any religious mask , openly . So can others . Russia and China , while maintaining their relationship with present admin , should at least not alienate the Iranian people by their anti- revolution stance . Iranian people will remember .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3yveXZ-DTxk


Here we see the brutal nature of the right wing Mullahs Hezbo-lies in action against unarmed protests . Some in the left , are calling for mass strikes as well as  protests . However mass protests only works in cases , where the ruling authority is subject to some form of democratic thinking . Here we seem not to  have such a situation ? The right wing Hezbo- lies have agreed among themselves to kill and lie about these killings . Some say this tactic of imposed war on the public , leaves no choice for the public , but to react , and this is true .  So the outcome initially will be a collapse of central authority ( brought on by the public ) with the right wing in an organised and armed state , and the left wing in a disorganised and unarmed state . Some now in the left wing say that they should arm , but wait and use armed forces  until after mass protests , when they will take the final violent and necessary step . During the previous Iranian revolution , the people raided Army weapon stores and obtained guns and defeated the Shah . They won . The revolutionaries and left wing , only lost , when they disarmed , and members of Army together with religious right wing then massacred them . Will they give up their guns , this time ?


The solution as I have said previously :

( 1 ) Building and displaying a nuclear deterrence , unlike the policy adopted by the defeatist liberals , which needs a democratic revolution .

( 2 ) The transfer of power from minority to majority , to solve economic and social problems , which needs a democratic revolution .

( 3 ) Establishment of self - sufficient economy , not dependant on trade and mainly in food production , and agricultural reform , which needs a democratic revolution .

A democratic revolution needs at least a nascent organised body of political parties , for the workers and farmers and teachers ( middle class ) . Removal of present regime , without an organised body of political parties , will lead to a power vacuum , that only an enemy will take advantage of , by territorial aggression or a puppet regime of dictatorship .