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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:19 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    More discrepancies with that plane shootdown: https://topwar.ru/166688-pjat-strannostej-s-padeniem-ukrainskogo-boinga-v-irane.html

    The investigation into the circumstances of the strike on the Ukrainian "Boeing" in the sky over Iran continues. Despite the recognition of the Iranian authorities in an accidental missile attack on the plane, this version also raises very big doubts, even among experts.

    Recall that on January 8, 2020, the plane of "International airlines of Ukraine" crashed about 3 minutes after departure from the Tehran airport. All 167 passengers and 9 crew members on Board were killed. Almost immediately, representatives of Ukraine issued a statement in which they ruled out the possibility of a version of a terrorist attack. However, Kiev soon rejected the initial words and said that the plane could have been shot down by a missile.



    Sensational was the recognition of the Iranian authorities that the Ukrainian airliner was indeed shot down by an Iranian missile by mistake, and this happened "because of the aggressive actions of the United States" in neighboring Iraq, in connection with which the Iranian air defense promptly responded to any air object. But it is this recognition that allows us to draw attention to a number of oddities associated with the disaster.

    Iran's swift repentance

    History knows many examples when countries in similar situations did not admit for years that they shot down a plane. For example, it is still unknown who shot down the Malaysian "Boeing" in the sky over the Donbass. Iran should not have refused to be involved in the crash of the airliner, especially since no one initially blamed Tehran for the incident. Too quick an admission of guilt, which is not at all in the tradition of relations between the East and the West, makes one think that Iran could have specifically taken responsibility – perhaps to avoid big problems, or perhaps for some other purpose.

    Video is too clear

    A video posted by a certain Nariman Gharib, an activist of Iranian origin, appeared on Twitter. The world's media immediately eagerly picked up the video and replicated it. The footage shows the flight of the plane, a bright flash and the sound of an explosion. Everything was taken very clearly, as if specifically in order to then present the recording as proof of Iran's guilt. But it is the moment of the shooting and the amazing composure of the host, who was actually emotionless and almost not surprised by the hit of the rocket in the plane, and makes you think about the oddities.

    Strange behavior of the canadian intelligence services

    The version that the airliner was shot down by a rocket was voiced by Canada, which does not have space intelligence facilities and, consequently, the ability to determine the exact causes of the disaster. Especially since canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau first started talking about a technical malfunction as the main reason for what happened. But the next day, the canadian security services abruptly "changed their shoes", and it was after Donald trump started talking about disbelief in the technical reasons for the crash. All, without exception, the canadian media that wrote about the "technical error" in one voice said about the "downed plane" with the usual addition of "with a high probability".

    January 12 rally

    Four days after the tragedy, on January 12, several hundred Iranian students gather outside the building of the Amir Kabir University in Tehran. They hold a rally in memory of the dead passengers of the Ukrainian airliner and at the same time defiantly burn a portrait of General Qasem Suleimani, who was killed by the Americans. Where the logic is, it is not very clear. Suleimani was already in another world by the time the ship fell. There are calls for the resignation of the government and even for the "rejection of the Ayatollah regime". Of course, such a rally is far from the Ukrainian Maidan, but its very fact is very significant.

    Black box

    "Black boxes" from the fallen plane are sent to France for decoding. As a reason, they said that Iran "does not have the ability to decrypt the flight recorders of American Airliners." Not to invite French specialists, but to hand over the "black boxes" to France. The strange thing is that if the recognition of an unintended strike took place, then why is such attention paid to the decoding of flight recorders, when much more attention should be paid to the actions of the calculation of the air defense system and its coordination with the services of the Imam Khomeini airport.

    Naturally, the position of Ukraine is also "impressive", where they immediately began to look for a Russian trace in the tragedy. In particular, Kiev accused Russia of arming the Iranian regime and, accordingly, being involved in the crash.

    In General, there are more inconsistencies than clarity in the strange case. And most importantly, although the airliner could indeed have been shot down by Iranian air defenses, it is possible that some external forces affected the air defense system of the Islamic Republic. The United States has the technical capabilities for such an impact, and the General information background of the event leaves no doubt that the death of the airliner was the least beneficial to the Iranian leadership.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:45 pm

    Revenge served very cold and for a very long time.


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    Iraqi parliament approves the building of a huge statue of Al-Muhandis, Qassem Soleimani at the place where they were murdered, so everybody who comes to Baghdad, especially the US terrorists,will have to look in the eyes of the Resistance leaders and be ashamed for their murder
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:01 pm

    The Iranians also plan museums and art work. While Yanks announce the establishment of four new bases in Iraq Kurdistan and yank Rob Syrian oil in the East and sell to Turkey. And yank want to keep troops in West  Iraq, near land crossing to Syria. So I wish I could be upbeat about this. But I can not.

    If we had to solely rely on national forces to evict Yanks, we could be waiting long time. Like occupied Japan. Since national forces take long time to form and group and exert enough force to evict the Liberal machine. If we relied on external help being given to national forces, to evict Yanks, then this time scale will be shorter. Instead of decades, we are then talking maybe five to ten years. But if these occupiers and colonialists were expelled directly, then we are talking about two years.

    But to help nationalist forces, we need nationalist forces from elsewhere to do this. In Iran, the liberals are strong and they wish and wait for the arrival of their master the Yanks. To establish formal relations. Without  the inconvenience of any religious or revolutionary ideology. They use political subterfuge, appeasement and political subservience as their mode of operation. The Iranian nationalists are in a state of atrophy, paralysis and confusion and the Iranian revolutionary left is defeated and dispersed a long time ago. Iran is hardly in a state of national liberation. Let alone helping national liberation in other states.

    So it is for revolutionary and national groups that remain intact and active, rather than states, that must unite and help each other. This means at best low level war against Yanks and collaborators. This war then takes longer to win. Remains to be seen if nation like Iran will survive this war. Who is getting weaker more quickly? It is not a question of Iran getting stronger and yank getting weaker, as was said.  But who is getting weaker more quickly and  weakening their bite on the kill.........
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:08 pm

    The Strategic Implications of Chinese-Iranian-Russian Naval Drills in the Indian Ocean

    Russia: Iran was spooked by reports of U.S. F-35s when it downed airliner
    “There were at least six (U.S.) F-35 fighters in the air in the Iranian border area (at the time). This information has yet to be verified, but I’d like to underline the edginess that always accompanies such situations,” Lavrov said.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:35 pm

    This relationship with China must develop further. China instead of relying on big navy to protect sea routes and direct confrontation with Yanks, then investing in land routes to Asia and Europe. Iran using allies in region to expell yank military and economic interests from silk road areas. This means China respecting international borders and national governments in Syria and Iraq. And possibly replacing Yanks in Afghanistan, together with India.

    Yank oil companies must be targeted in Iraq and Syria and driven out by Iran and allied national forces. If not at national level, then at local level, by local resistance groups. China then replacing Yanks in Iraq and Syria also.

    Iranians need to clear out the west loving ruling groups from power, and allow greater democracy at home. They also need to change the fatwa against nukes. As this law is contradictory and unworkable.  Good to see Iran joining the Euroasian and Shanghai trading group. China must now take seriously buying oil and trading with Iran. Left alone Iran may not be strong enough to fight the Yanks and Europeans.

    Iran may at some stage mount raids into Iraqi or Syrian Kurdistan. To break up the separatists there, supported by Yanks, that will prove to be an obstacle to national unity in the region and free trade and travel and a source of insecurity. Turkish involvement against separatist kurdish elements, should not be opposed. Since it is better to allow a weaker and less hostile force, replace a stronger and more adverserial yank force in region. Turkey will eventually abandon NATO, since this alliance does not serve Turkey national interests in long run.


    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/01/18/2184566/iran-exports-to-eaeu-more-than-double-official


    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154685/Russia-supports-Iran-joining-SCO-Lavrov

    Iran to support Iraq nationalists against yank occupation and break up. Militarily. No kisses this time or Aspirin.

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154686/Iraq-s-al-Halbousi-rejects-any-plan-to-divide-country

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:29 pm

    They also need to change the fatwa against nukes.
    It's still useful & allows Iran to divide the EU from the US on that issue.
    Besides, it needs at least a year to build a nuke- if the fatwa is rescinded, the US will have more reasons to bomb Iran before it has a single nuke. The only thing that will stop it would be if the RF, PRC, Pakistan &/ India place Iran under their nuclear umbrella & declare that any attack, much less an air war, on Iran by US, UK &/ Israel or further attempts of regime change there will be considered as an attack on them.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:45 am

    There is no Warsaw pact type situation in ME region. Where nuclear umbrella provided by Soviets, dettered attack by NATO. The dynamics are very different. The Soviet Union was a unitary state, together with Warsaw pact countries. Now we have nation States, exerting their own influence. Based on national interest or group interest. So there are shifting alliances, that change. In this sense Iran can not rely on another state providing a nuclear umbrella. I am sure if a couple of yank ships were sunk by Iran, then Yanks would threaten use of nukes. And no other country will go to Defcon 4, over Iran, with Yanks. So Iran needs own detterent. I know that anxiety exists, over this, even in Russia. But alternative, maybe yank bases on their southern coast. Or direct war, with yank, that they will avoid for obvious reason, like Syria. So best outcome is for independent detterent. Regarding the Fatwa, what can publicly be said, is that : Nukes are not the present Iran defence policy. This will allow development of detterent, while at same time not giving excuse for yank attack. It needs to be driven away from religious doctrine. Since it is not rational.

    The Europeans, left to own devices, without yank pressure, can breakaway and act more independently. But I think some European groups and power brokers, have a hatred and vandetta against Iran. All of their own.

    As an example the Nord stream 2, project was not abandoned by Europe. It is still going on. Because Europe sees Russia differently. It is not that Russian oil or economy is much more important than Iran. Or pressure by yank against them against trade with Iran is greater. I may be wrong, but it has something to do with  latent dislike, based on colonial history........... Iran best forget Europe. Stop counting on them for support. Here Iran showing sattelite launch capability. Based on this, Iran can be counted as nuclear armed capable state. But they still need to put some ICBM on display........

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/01/19/2184965/iran-to-launch-new-satellites
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:05 pm

    Interesting.

    Tehran Analyses Downed Boeing Recorders, No Decision on Sending Them to Ukraine Yet - Iranian Media


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    Middle East
    13:56 19.01.2020(updated 14:25 19.01.2020) Get short URL
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    On Saturday, the Tasnim News Agency quoted the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry as saying that the black boxes from the downed jetliner were to be sent to Ukraine for examination.

    Iran is decoding the flight recorders from the Boeing 737 that was accidentally downed earlier in January and has not taken a definitive decision to send them for analysis abroad, Hassan Rezaeifar, an aircraft safety inspector at the Civil Aviation Authority, stated on Sunday, as quoted by IRNA.

       "We are trying to read the black boxes here in Iran. Otherwise, our options are Ukraine and France, but no decision has been taken so far to send them to another country”, Rezaeifar said.

    The statement contradicts previous reports suggesting that Iran had authorised Ukrainian specialists to conduct the analysis of the black boxes. The decoding of the recorders has also been a contentious issue over the past few days, as the parties involved in the tragedy cannot agree whose specialists should carry out the analysis.

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau previously urged Iran to send the black boxes to France. Kiev, in turn, requested that Tehran transfer the flight recorders to Ukraine.

    Ukraine International Airlines flight PS752 crashed on 8 January near Tehran's Imam Khomeini International Airport, killing all 176 people on board. According to official data, 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainians, 10 Swedes, four Afghans, three Germans, and three UK nationals were among the victims.

    The Iranian military subsequently admitted to unintentionally shooting down the jetliner, having confused it with a hostile cruise missile in anticipation of US retaliation for Iran's attack against Iraqi bases housing US military personnel. The Iranian leadership expressed deep regret, describing the tragedy as an "unforgivable mistake".

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/202001191078077441-tehran-analyses-downed-boeing-recorders-no-decision-on-sending-them-to-ukraine-yet---iranian-media/
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:57 pm

    I am sure if a couple of yank ships were sunk by Iran, then Yanks would threaten use of nukes.
    If they know that Iran is under protection by any nuclear power, their actions in the region will become less provocative to prevent any naval losses.
    I agree that having its own deterrent is better, but it'll take time. Until then, Iran better make alliances & allow foreign troops on its bases.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:31 pm

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/false-flag-fmr-cia-officer-suggests-us-hacked-ukrainian-plane-transponder-provoke-iran

    This is more consistent than any theory about an accidental shoot down. The fact that it was a Ukr jet amplifies the improbability
    of an "accident".

    Russia and others need to learn a lesson from this case. Do not trust western products. Russia needs to gut all the transponders
    from its western model jets and replace them with Russian ones immune to US dirty tricks.

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    Post  Regular on Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:00 pm

    Even then, Russian AD system is layered so much that this wouldn't happen even if US tried.
    When it comes to implementing rules of engagement and target designation i'd probably say that Russia is leading in the world. I really doubt you can fuck about with Russian AD in any way.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:21 pm

    Regular wrote:Even then, Russian AD system is layered so much that this wouldn't happen even if US tried.
    When it comes to implementing rules of engagement and target designation i'd probably say that Russia is leading in the world. I really doubt you can fuck about with Russian AD in any way.

    I was thinking more along the lines of false flags in other contexts. In terms of AD, Russia is indeed much better organized than Iran.

    But having anything in Russia prone to control from Washington's maggots should not be tolerated. Better safe than sorry and also you
    have GDP growth through expenditure on upgrades.

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    Post  nomadski on Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:27 pm

    @ Tsavo

    You have mentioned this a couple of times. As you know Iran law does not allow foreign troops on it's soil. But first we must ask, why foreign troops needed ? As an example if China builds a road, from China to Mashhad to Baghdad to Damascus to Med sea. That is a lot of investment. What if this road is blocked or destroyed by foreign troops? Then all this investment lost. Same for China owned factory. What if enemy plane hit it ? All is lost.

    So a way around this law, may be to rebrand foreign troops, as military trainers or advisers or security force. The same type of security force you get for any major modern installation, similar to private security. But this time, it is much bigger. And may include military aircraft to protect road or rail or port facility.

    This security force, need not be just Chinese. But be made up of multi - national force of all those countries engaged in construction and use of silk roads or rail or port facility.

    And to stop this legal difficulty, the land on which this road is built, can be leased for 99 years to China. In return for legal undertaking of China not imposing any US sanction on Iran. And selling and buying all goods in free trade.

    The same plan can be done for Russia. A Russia road and rail and canal system through Iran to Persian Gulf. With same rules for both.

    Similar mutual leasehold agreements can be done for Iran, to allow use of Russian and Chinese road or port, for trade with Europe and south east Asia. This type of thing may be workable.

    The advantage to this system, is that no country is then dragged into local conflicts in third nations. While having a right to defend legitimate right to protect leased territory from attack by own forces.

    Of course the size of this security force is limited, to be only sufficient to protect the said property. And not exceed any level, that can pose a threat to host country security, with undertakings not to meddle in internal politics of country and respect it 's territorial integrity and national laws.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:35 pm

    Russia/PRC can also send AD troops to train/operate S-300/500 or the HQ-9. Conducting training & exercises with other militaries in Iran wouldn't be against their laws. If Japan can stretch her pacifist laws to carry favor with US & prepare for future conflicts, so can Iran.
    Just like in Syria, where the US/Israel r careful not to kill any Russian soldiers (not Wagner mercenaries), if they r dispersed across Iranian bases, nuclear sites, & transportation network, that could prevent them from being bombed.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:40 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add text)
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:22 am

    Agree with AD systems operated by Russia or PRC. But the geographical locations are too sensitive for any troops of any foreign country. They could at once strike and destroy such facility. Then send invasion force to occupy Iran.

    No, they are limited to border areas, to protect road and rail and port. By defensive capability only. Such as AD  or if planes, then only air to air capability and strict flight plan over port or factory or rail link in border area.


    I had this idea about Afghanistan. Of course such plan must be approved by their society and Government. Say China invest in Lithium ore extraction for mobile phone technology. Then facility and workers there may come under attack by bandits or yank special forces sabotage. And Afghan security forces, may not be upto the job. So China can station security forces around installation, together with Afghans, or other states like India or Iran, who have invested in joint venture. AD can be put there by Iran or China.

    Economic installations, direct investments, can be protected in this way. Limited in scope, but effective in maintaining trade and commerce, under difficult conditions. Military or nuclear sites of national interest should be out of bounds. Strictly I would say, such forces best limited to border area only. Iran needs to protect nuclear sites to create a detterent against all States.

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154742/Human-error-confirmed-as-cause-of-Ukrainian-flight-crash-senior

    Here, the Iranians have claimed human error, on part of SAM operator as definitive cause of incident. Also rejecting any jamming of plane system. Saying huge personal error involved. And all this, even before they examined plane black box.

    I knew, this would be their most probable answer. To avoid war, they have covered up the incident. And that is why the Yanks took video of incident. Since they knew Iranians will deny this incident, to avoid going to war. And when Iranians denied the incident, as being an own goal, they displayed the evidence of an actual shoot down, carried out by themselves in Iran.

    The problem with an enemy, who wants to go to war, is that, you can not forever avoid this imposed war. And nor should you. They will now carry out more murders and sabotage, no doubt. I am still of the opinion that Iran is getting weaker, and can not afford to wait. It must respond. Directly.


    Last edited by nomadski on Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:13 am

    They could at once strike and destroy such facility. Then send invasion force to occupy Iran.

    I highly doubt they could. Iran has a population of 80 million people. They have shittons of manpads, ATGMs and man-carried artilleries.

    Nothing similar to previous wars. US would suffer tramandous casualities if they try to occupy Iran.
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:25 am

    I am not talking about Yanks occupying Iranian bases. But potentially Russian or Chinese troops stationed nearby for purpose of " defending" such sites. When push comes to shove, and if they feel threatened, they would like to feel that, they can push through Iran, with their forces, to reach PG region. Against any Iranian opposition against occupation. But if Iran has nukes, then they can not occupy or run over Iran, to reach PG or occupy. The answer for them is to be satisfied with a limited defensive capability along Iran southern coast. This should alleviate their anxiety of geopolitical  isolation from PG region. And  no foreign bases in Iran proper. This is not Syria. The Russians have similar anxiety over Ukraine having nukes. For same reason. The need for ports and access to sea. Again I think they should not be against Ukraine or any other state, having nukes. But at same time have agreements about access to ports for trade or in defensive role. Same in Greece.........
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:09 pm

    No need to occupy Iran. Yugoslavia was broken up w/o ground invasion. The US hawks want to dismember Iran so it'll never become another Pakistan. Khuzestan & Azerbaijan r the prime targets. If they succeed & rest of Iran still defies the US dictat/causes problems, those 2 areas would become bulwarks &/ launching pads for further attacks. Just like S. Korea & Mongolia were for the US & USSR respectively.
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:59 pm

    You may be right about their plans of dismemberment for Iran. But Russia or China or any other power will also take part in this dismemberment. It is not because of any hostility on their part. It is just the way the cookie crumbles. The history of weaker nations, being invaded by more powerful ones, always leads to the same old conclusion of partition.

    But I don't think the yank planners know Iran very well. To be honest I don't think they could organise a storm in a teacup. Or then again, that is all they can do. Pompeo, likes to think of himself as the champion of the Liberal order or disorder, as the case is. But in reality the American Empire is dying. Sure, they have aspirations for greatness. Make America great again. But their political culture is informed by an earlier age. They should be thought of as settler colonialists. But in the age of the nation state. It is an outdated idea. They can simply not compete with these modern ideas and aspirations. Apart from absolute exceptions. Where they deal with very disorganised environments.

    I suggest you travel to Iran. And talk to people in Azerbaijan or Baluchistan or Khuzestan. And see if they are any the less nationalist than rest of Iran. The Imperialist planners are a bunch of dreamers. I have said before to you that this dream is empty. Iranians are united. Did you not see 25 million people on streets for Soliemani ?

    So in total, no way for standing foreign army on Iran soil. And Iran will not break up. And in fact Iran getting bigger by attracting allies in region. And Iran can have ICBM. And Iran can have nukes, if it wanted. So relax. Iran will prepare nice answer for America. Hopefully not leaving it too late. The sooner the better.

    https://youtu.be/V1RPi2MYptM

    Here is relaxation sound for the world. When Iran leave NPT. Relax and learn to love the bomb........ LOL.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:17 pm

    nomadski wrote:But Russia or China or any other power will also take part in this dismemberment.
    in the worst case, they'll support the parts that manage to stay together.

    I suggest you travel to Iran.
    to get arrested on false charges like the others so I can be exchanged for Iranians now in American jails? Besides, I have better use for my $ & won't risk flying in/out of there. Maybe later, in better times.

    Iranians are united. Did you not see 25 million people on streets for Soliemani?
    there were many protests as well in the last few years, with live ammo. used to kill dozens- to me, it looks like they r disunited on domestic/foreign policy. R Iranian Kurds as loyal as the other minorities?

    So in total, no way for standing foreign army on Iran soil.
    it happened before in WWII & can happen again. It won't be permanent stationing of troops- just rotations. Russian Bombers, fighters, transports, tankers & CMs overflew Iran on their way to/from Syria. If naval exercises/visits can be held off/in Iran, land/AF exercises can be next.
    https://eurasianet.org/azerbaijani-navy-visits-iran-for-first-time-amid-warming-ties
    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/15/c_136446531.htm

    https://caspiannews.com/news-detail/iran-russia-ink-agreement-on-naval-cooperation-2019-7-31-2/

    https://www.pravdareport.com/world/144226-usa_iran/
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:25 am

    @ Tsavo lion

    You are confusing domestic disturbances with Iran national unity. The disturbances were over sudden fuel price rises. Some turned to burning property and were shot. Not great number. This was not about foreign policy of standing up to yank. So Iranians may have internal disagreement or riot, but they are united in face of war.

    The parrallel with WW2, I don't think accurate. Balance of forces different. Politics different. The only parrallel that exist, is increasing number of states having economic problems and lack of democratic developments. Leading to territorial disputes. There may be WW3, but it will look different.

    As far as Azerbaijan Republic. Really it is part of Iran. Although the demographics changed during soviet times by mass expulsions to central Asia Gulags. And non - Iranians being settled to change demography. My own uncle refusing to give up Iranian passport and identity, being sent to cental Asian Gulag by Russians. There he died. Iran will reclaim this territory. Drive out Yank bases and Zionist.......
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:43 am

    nomadski wrote:@ Tsavo lion

    You are confusing domestic disturbances with Iran national unity. The disturbances were over sudden fuel price rises. Some turned to burning property and were shot. Not great number. This was not about foreign policy of standing up to yank. So Iranians may have internal disagreement or riot, but they are united in face of war.

    The parrallel with WW2, I don't think accurate. Balance of forces different. Politics different. The only parrallel that exist, is increasing number of states having economic problems and lack of democratic developments. Leading to territorial disputes. There may be WW3, but it will look different.

    As far as Azerbaijan Republic. Really it is part of Iran. Although the demographics changed during soviet times by mass expulsions to central Asia Gulags. And non - Iranians being settled to change demography. My own uncle refusing to give up Iranian passport and identity, being sent to cental Asian Gulag by Russians. There he died. Iran will reclaim this territory. Drive out Yank bases and Zionist.......

    I believe they are talking about the Iranian region called Azerbaijan

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan_(Iran)


    that, by the way, borders Azerbaijan (the state and former soviet republic)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:22 pm

    @ Rodion

    No, Iranian Azerbaijan is merely a region or county. The Republic of Azerbaijan, was the former soviet Republic. That now has a " Navy". This territory together with Dagestan was lost by Iran in war with Tsarist Russia, some hundred years ago. Previous to this date, these territories have always been Iranian. Part of Iranian heartland. Now this territory can join Iran to conform to natural border or boundary. This will make sure that it does not fall into Western or Zionist sphere of influence. There are area in Afghanistan that can also join, at right time. Like Herat, to start with. Some in central Asia............. PG region......we claim these territories.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:00 pm

    nomadski wrote:@ Rodion

    No, Iranian Azerbaijan is merely a region or county. The Republic of Azerbaijan, was the former soviet Republic. That now has a " Navy". This territory together with Dagestan was lost by Iran in war with Tsarist Russia, some hundred years ago. Previous to this date, these territories have always been Iranian. Part of Iranian heartland. Now this territory can join Iran to conform to natural border or boundary. This will make sure that it does not fall into Western or Zionist sphere of influence. There are area in Afghanistan that can also join, at right time. Like Herat, to start with. Some in central Asia............. PG region......we claim these territories.

    Maybe it is just me, but I believe that the chance that the former soviet republic of Azerbaijan becomes part of Iran are even less than it coming back into Russian control...

    Btw there was a period in which the Soviets were controlling Iranian Azerbaijan as well...
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:45 pm

    Yes, this idea  does not sit well  with  some.  Hurts  false pride and national ego. Lenin needlessly soiled his index finger with tobbaco stain, worrying about the nationalities question. The great Bear, does not own the world ! And can like others be guilty of expansionism  and ethnic cleansing! Terrible really. But I told you, When I first joined forum. I am only slightly pro - Russian! But no worries, Iranians want to keep our Russian friends safe in Azerbaijan. They can stay and keep their passports. So can any other nationals or Turks. Azerbaijan best interest is still not to become a launch pad for NATO and Zionist military. Iran and Russia offering military assistance and security guarantee. Here new report of possible electronic tampering with Ukraine plane, before shoot down. I am starting to think, if plane even had pilots on board!  Or was it remote piloted. Like drone. Explains why no radio contact with air traffic control. What you think?

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/01/21/2186758/iran-s-2nd-report-on-crashed-plane-reveals-detailed-technical-info

    US refusing to provide decoding equipment for Black boxes. Something fishy going on. Iranians want to get info themselves. Maybe Trump afraid to admit that they killed Ukraine and Canadians, for own military adventurism.....

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