Tsavo Lion wrote: Well, the timing of the events point to a set up. This been the US & Israel modus operandi for a long time now. If not them, who would benefit from the resulting internal strife in Iran? The notion of two Chinese client states dominating the Middle East must induce more than a few headaches in Washington, Tel-Aviv, and Riyadh; therefore the push for regime change in those two states is increasing and the murders of Gen. Soleimani and a planeload of civilians are both parts of that push. https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/01/12/ps752-shot-down-in-regime-change-attempt/
Barr and Pompeo shift justification for Iran strike from 'imminent' threat to deterrence
for me there there is no way this was a mistake by anyone ,but a false flag event.. the alarm for me was raised by the timing of when this happen ,on top that an ukrainian airliner was involved in the incident.. a puppet state of US that was involved in not one but two false flag incident already .. one with a malasyan plane and a previous one in a flight returning from israel to russia... it can't be coincidence ukraine "bad luck" that always is part of a major incident whenever full civilian planes fall from the sky ... and later russia blamed..
the possibility the transponder was setup ,to report the wrong information ,to confuse iranian airspace is not surprising at all... those things can be hacked.. but the ultimate suspicious was that a camera man ,was at the right moment ..right place ,to capture at night when a missile hits a plane, how many times people take their time to look at night in the sky to a supersonic missile.. incredible coincidence.. a tourist? and by an amazing luck ,the guy ,run to his house and send the video to the jew york times? lol... . such things don't happens unless it was a setup... a trap.. that iran fall on it... most likely the plane was prepared to hide its official civilian plane signal and with the flip of a switch show up as an cruise missile.
iran will need to reroute the places civilian planes can travel... so that no longer air defenses operator can be misguided again.
US ,UK and Israel are masters in false flags.. they do it all the time , in all wars ,in all conflicts.. and they even brag about it... from the famous dancing israelis ,that celebrated the towers collapse and turned to be israel intelligence agents.. , that told later ,when back at israel tv, that their mission in america was to document the event ,officially confirming he knew and told nothing .. .. to the famous snipers that always show up in any american financed civil protest as was the arab spring...,ukraine and venezuela, lead by the NED and USAID which receive money from us congress.
i even warned that israel could stage the take down of civilian airliner with hundreds of people aboard and later blame it on syria.. to justify a nato major bombing campaign.. and instead of a civilian plane.. it was a military one.. of the russian airforce.. and russsia explanation of what happened did not convinced me.. had to be shot down by israel in some kind of indirect setup or ambush..
people also forget how the pentagon general during obama admin,warned in public /threatened russia with civilian planes shotdown of russia if don't leave syria and just 4-5 days later , a civilian russian plane was destroyed by "isis" in same week that pentagon warned russia.. with hundreds of russian civilians killed.. all things said.. washington dc ,london and telaviv are terrorist states.. and nothing ,absolutely nothing surpriseme from them. their intelligence agencies have no empathy for humanity ,no integrity or morals.. and will do anything ,including killing millions civilians if that is what it takes to keep their criminal system going.
there is a real war happening.. anglo zionist powers are at war with Russia and its allies already.. the only different between a world war 2 and today cold war.. is that the later is very slow..and undercover, throw a grenade at russia and later hide the hand.. and war is not declared openly... but people die and killed in the hundreds if not more..
Arrow wrote:Mindstorm you are lying. How this attack could show the sensitivity of air defense. This US base was not protected by PAC 3 or THAAD. If PAC 3 and THAADs were there, most of the missiles would be intercept. This is how it looks. Many ballistic missiles were intercepted in Saudi Arabia, which shows that the US missile defense is in good shape.
Arrow there is not chance for me or anyone to lie about the abyshmal-to-not-existing air defense capabilities of US and, most in general, western born military infrastructures and forces around the world:since 1990 up to the latest attack to the Aramco facilities in Saudi Arabia last year US air defense have regularly and shockingly failed to provide even only a semblance of protection in theirs area of deployment often failing to achieve even only a single interception in the course of those attacks.
Raytheon claims that in 2017-2017 Saudi patriot systems intercepted more than 100 tactical ballistic missiles. This is a good result. Of course, unfortunately they were not in many places. they probably were not around during the attack on the Saudi refinery and, obviously, during the recent attack on an American base in Iraq. I agree that many US bases are not protected by anti-aircraft and missile defense systems, but certainly their anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems are at a very high level.
Why do you think the US has no similar systems? It has PAC-2, PAC-3 THAAD. The fire control radar on the S-400 92N6E is also sector-specific as is the MPQ-65.
Are American bases in Western Europe also not protected by any air defense systems? Are Patriot System Batteries Placed There? NATO air defense is largely based on aviation.
Last edited by Arrow on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Arrow wrote:Raytheon claims that in 2017-2017 Saudi patriot systems intercepted more than 100 tactical ballistic missiles. This is a good result. Of course, unfortunately they were not in many places. they probably were not around during the attack on the Saudi refinery and, obviously, during the recent attack on an American base in Iraq. I agree that many US bases are not protected by anti-aircraft and missile defense systems, but certainly their anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems are at a very high level.
Why do you think the US has no similar systems? It has PAC-2, PAC-3 THAAD. The fire control radar on the S-400 92N6E is also sector-specific as is the MPQ-65.
Are American bases in Western Europe also not protected by any air defense systems? Are Patriot System Batteries Placed There?
Rytheon claims have been compromised. Still no one can forbid them to say what they want and so they do
It seems as if every Patriot missile launch is counted as success. As if not one of us has seen footage of Huti hitting targets with ballistic and cruise missiles. It has failed
miserably on number of occasions immediately after which every time the most confident imbue claims penetrate media space. As if they have no shame.
I guess no one should fly again. Hitting passenger plane is so easy. As is taking out a political person or envoy. I bet the guys who did Ukraine plane job, are no older than 19. And the guy who ordered it, is still in nappies, you know, the red one....
https://youtu.be/xC0zUJRT7Ds
Also the whole story about sattelite identification of TOR and transponder jamming by UAV and wind blowing plane off course, is a lot of junk. The story fed to press. Iran accepted it, to stop war, right now. Plane hit from small MANPAD. A lot of false info out there to sell TOR story by bellingcat. From stupid missile head, photos found near crash site. To TOR rocket plume that look like doctored liquid fuel nozzle and flash of photography lighting up a car park! To look like missile strike plane. This could not happen. Light not strong enough. Also car alarm goes off 4 seconds after flash. While plane was at 6000 feet or 2000 meter altitude. So sonic boom way too early, even if plane directly over head.......... They realised their mistake. So put new false video on YouTube later, showing rocket plume.. But too late, I noticed first........
Agree about air defences not working properly against incoming threats. But most attacks against bases are with cheap mortar or rocket. It just is not cost effective to fire million Dollar missile, for 100 Dollar rocket. The Yanks in Iraq have not fired SAM to intercept projectiles, have they? Does anyone know of even single patriot or Iron dome to protect the Jar heads?
Last edited by nomadski on Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
That Iran went to full-scale air defense readiness as it announced it did and as its order to ground planes would suggest, only for cracks to emerge due to inexperience, junior officer inexperience or immature C4I technologies - leading to a shot-down civilian airliner?
Or that there was an elaborate Western plot involving transponders, 5th columns armed with MANPADs, sacrificed Ukrainian airliners, all masterfully coordinated to reach their climax immediately following the Iranian missile strike that they had a few hour warning of but still didn't know when it was coming exactly?
Some rogue or bribed elements in the Iranian military could do it to destabilize the regime. I bet it has been infiltrated by its enemies already, just like some units in the Afghan Army by the Taliban.
You are right python. It is how you tell the story. Here ia joke for you : God gave two sparrows a chance to live each for either one year or a thousand years. They had to choose. The clever sparrow took the message to the stupid sparrow. It said, do you want to live for Oooooooooone year or a thous'nd years? So the stupid sparrow chose to live for Oooooooooone year........
------------------------------------- Now the real entertainment:
Iranian FM Zarif on Britain, France, and Germany:
E3 think they’re living in the 19th Century, when they dictated to countries, lied, & got away with it.
-IRAN triggered the DRM
-IRAN is NOT the one emptying the accord of its substance—the E3 is
Forget about compensating for U.S: fulfill your own obligations.
EVEN JUST ONE.
E3 claims it has kept its obligations under JCPOA.
Reality Check:
Zero imports of Iranian oil
Embargoing of Iranian banks & SWIFT disconnect
Non-implementation of Blocking Statute
Exodus of European firms in Iran
Failure to even sell "exempted" food/medicine
Here's what E3 HAS been busy w/ since the US left JCPOA:
Reality Check 2:
Issued empty statements
Violated its own laws by bowing to US extraterritorial sanctions
Ignored Iran's 3 notifications of DRM activation
Set up INSTEX w/o single transaction
The bitter realization that his career landmark achievement is going down in flames. Iranian liberals have been had. Reminds of the Russians crying about NATO expansion - like really? You really didn't see that coming.
North Koreans got it right. They endured the pain hard at first but they got the bomb already and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Not the Europeans, not the U.S, not Japan, not China or Russia. A big fuck you to all of them.
for me there there is no way this was a mistake by anyone ,but a false flag event.. the alarm for me was raised by the timing of when this happen ,on top that an ukrainian airliner was involved in the incident.. a puppet state of US that was involved in not one but two false flag incident already .. one with a malasyan plane and a previous one in a flight returning from israel to russia... it can't be coincidence ukraine "bad luck" that always is part of a major incident whenever full civilian planes fall from the sky ... and later russia blamed..
the possibility the transponder was setup ,to report the wrong information ,to confuse iranian airspace is not surprising at all... those things can be hacked..
quoting myself for truth.. even when iran initial report was saying they did it.. i could not believe at all this was an accident/mistake.. and instead was promoting the idea of a false flag.. a very well planned event..
guess what? one week later now iran have a new updated version of what happened.. they are accusing US of hacking one of their radars.. as the reason of the shot down of the plane.. is on rt..
Iran blames 'US hackers' for Ukrainian airline tragedy
So now my false flag theory takes force.. it was to suspicious the camera filming at the right moment ,place and time and the filmaker to happen to be anti government ,and email the video to the new york times.. and an ukrainian plane being involved only raised more the bullshit meter.. it had to be a false flag.. and now it looks more and more it was.. iranians are now saying their radars were hacked and this will support the false flag /staged event theory..
however the iranians government are obviously not experts in computers and for sure don't know what is a hack or what is not.. a hack is when you take control of someone else hardware.. in this case i don't think this is what happened.. the iranian radars were not hacked.. but most likely happened is that the bullshit plane.. from ukraine.. had special equipment hidden inside.. special electronics.. perhaps integrated in the transponder.. that by satellite could be controlled..or from the ground.. and with the flip of a switch , disable the transponders.. identifying the plane as civilian airliner.. and turn on an electronic hidden equipment,, that simulate the accurate signal of a tomahawk missile..
if the plane was flying very close to an iranian base when it happens the switch.. it will give little time for iranian air defenses to confirm the target after seeing a cruise missile flying near them..and so they give the order to shot it down.. because they saw it as a missile... even the officer who admit he did.. it .. told it.. "i though it was a missile" ... so how he though that? for sure because that was the signal he saw on radars..
they think their radars were hacked.. but i don't think so.. i really believe the ukraine plane was a key.. for the false flag happening.. and special electronic equipment had to be inside.. and placed there by CIA operative ,in collaboration with ukrainian intelligence agencies.. and their goal was to sink forever the possibility of europe ,doing a nuclear treaty with iran.. but if it was a false flag europe will have to defend iran ,and claim US created a false flag.. and they obviously will not destroy their relations $$ with US for iran.. and choose instead to run with the original western story..
so if i was to bet... 1)the ukraine plane was key piece of the false flag incident.. 2)the plane was setup ,in a few hours by ukraine intelligence to show up as a missile .. using real tomahacks signals.. even a piece of tomahawk circuit turned on the wing ,could trigger an alarm on iranian radars..
images of an iranian missile on the crash scene will not invalidate the false flag theory.. they likely fired on the plane as they claimed.. but they tough it was a missile.. and they told it.. what they don't know yet is how this happened.. how the hack was.. but i think it was not a hack.. but more a plane full of surprises inside... by their american friends.. to cause it ,to be shot down by iran.
Occam's razor is not even a conjecture. It is routinely abused to excuse null-think in the face of complexity. Following the usual misapplication of this dictum one would argue that only one variable is important in a multivariate system. Obvious BS.
The notion that the USA does not play dirty in global affairs is laughable. They even admitted to spending $5 billion on Ukrainian "civil society" double-speak for anti-Russian political elements. Regimes that engage in conspiracy theories are the ones which have MSM orifices that try to claim anyone who does not sing from the official hymn book of narratives is a "tin foil hat conspiracy theorist".
The idea that we live in a world where all actions are spontaneous and basically innocent incompetence is hilariously deluded. In the real world we have cases like the stooge who was in charge of the Russian sports anti-doping agency. He was a crook and was obviously paid off with millions and currently has run off to reside in the USA. This "innocent victim" of Putin's regime is the whole basis of the WADA anti-Russian sports bans. WADA does not even care to produce physical evidence. Does anyone here really think that WADA is just making some mistakes? Using Occam's razor I would argue it is engaged in dirty politics.
i don't know if the claims americans died was true.. im not convinced.. but something it is clear.. that the missiles attack did scared the shit of all of them.. and they had to run to bunkers , and some of them cried.. according to their own reports..
so is a really bizarre video .. watching how the "most powerful military" in the world.. was hopeless vs a small iranian attack.. now iran found a way to remove americans from iraq.. just keep destroying the us bases with a warning before they do it,, to keep their soldiers safe.. but the base completely destroyed, so the pentagon is humiliated and had to rebuild it again..and again and again.. and they will not do this forever.. just another bigger strike could seriously make the pentagon to leave ,because if soldiers are killed ,and air defenses fail.. they will be blamed for not leaving if the base was not safe..and if they deploy patriot air defenses ,and they fail.. it will be another major humiliation.. so it will be a lose /lose.. lose if they stay in the base.. and keep getting destroyed and they defenseless.. and bad publicity for US military as a force that nobody could touch..and lose if they leave..because everyone will say they got scared.. and that iranian force was what forced them to change..
Yes Vann. Initially, the report was of zero injuries. Some claimed that Trump lied. That there were injuries. So I said that this was stupid. If true. Because truth has a habit of sticking it's ugly head out. So now they admit to casualties. Therefore Trump lied. So if he lied small, then he could lie big. Therefore there could be truth to story of this leaked memo. Hundreds dead. Hundreds injured. As we know now, many personnel did not go into shelters. The UAV operators and personnel guarding the perimeter of base from land attack. If so, then this shows that Yanks have no appetite to go to war. Since answer to this attack, was just more sanctions.
https://youtu.be/55uYm8Ve49I
Now Iranian leader said today, Iran is building it's forces. And Iranian people are patient. Meaning no direct war now started by Iran, against Yanks. The assessment of leadership is that Iran getting stronger, and can wait or should wait, before waging war on Yanks.
https://youtu.be/jvyOp1_mFDs
It is their assessment. Not mine. But I don't have access to info on economy or military planning. All I can say, is from what I see, and hear on TV. And this tells me, Iran getting weaker. And must act now.
In any case, sure to see increased indirect attacks on Yanks. With them unable or unwilling to retaliate. Basically their position is getting weaker. In this, there is no doubt. Now shares in Aspirin, are to increase in value. All those yank soldiers, getting headache and shell shock by blast of MRBM attack..........
Vann, the base was not "completely destroyed" parts of it yes but it is massive and most of it was not touched.
Many US military will now be reported dead all over the World. Like the two pilots who died in their sleep in Germany a few days ago. This is the US way.
JohninMK wrote:Vann, the base was not "completely destroyed" parts of it yes but it is massive and most of it was not touched.
Many US military will now be reported dead all over the World. Like the two pilots who died in their sleep in Germany a few days ago. This is the US way.
The very next day of the attack there was a US humvee beig destroyed un afghanistan also with 2 or 3 deads.
Like I said the day after the attack. A accident here, another one there. Ups, a helicopter went down with 15 on board…
The interview with the norwegian soldiers was really telling. In need of psychological care after a small missile attack even while sitting in a bunker.
Hole wrote: The interview with the norwegian soldiers was really telling. In need of psychological care after a small missile attack even while sitting in a bunker.
“In this situation, it cannot be ruled out that the US military and special services took advantage of the riots near the US Embassy in Iraq in their corporate interests and simply framed Donald Trump, who did not fully understand the importance of the figure of Kassem Suleimani, who has the status of a national hero in Iran." http://nvo.ng.ru/spforces/2020-01-17/4_1077_intelligence.html?print=Y
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
Hole wrote: The interview with the norwegian soldiers was really telling. In need of psychological care after a small missile attack even while sitting in a bunker.
Hole wrote: The interview with the norwegian soldiers was really telling. In need of psychological care after a small missile attack even while sitting in a bunker.
Danes not Norgies.
Scandinavians.
Vikings must be ashamed of all of them. They are all pussies specially Sweedtens
Those places plus Iceland are down to the Americans.
Perhaps now it'll be easier to sell Greenland! More discrepancies with that plane shootdown: https://topwar.ru/166688-pjat-strannostej-s-padeniem-ukrainskogo-boinga-v-irane.html
Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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Reality Check:
and an ukrainian plane being involved only raised more the bullshit meter..
