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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    BKP
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    Post  BKP on Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:08 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:There is nothing like a good crisis to stress test a nations leadership, its cohesion and unity. Iran has cracked open to show many dangerous holes leadership wise... its elites are split - compromised or useful idiots alike. Iran can not afford to be in that position, even if America shows the same cracks.

    I often disagree with your posts, but I do agree with that. Whoever are the competent leaders in Iran, they will hopefully recognize these weaknesses that have been exposed and act accordingly, and quickly. They have to if they want to survive as a sovereign nation, as they are essentially at war, a war that hasn't (yet) gone fully kinetic.
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    Post  BKP on Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:15 am

    This site is saying that a Tor system acquired by Iran in 2004 is what was used in the accidental downing of the Boeing. It's is one of the less anti-Russia sites out there, so if they're saying it I guess the MSM is probably driving the point home relentlessly for propaganda purposes.

    https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/iran-admits-to-shooting-down-ukrainian-civilian-airliner-what-comes-next
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:01 am

    @ ATLASCLUB

    Agree. But our Cart is being pulled by a lame Horse. And that is the only Horse we have. The present  state  and leadership, has no alternatives. Apart from the Monarchist and MKO, backed by Yanks. If more revolutionary and Democratic forces, had been part of the political structure, then Iran would have a complete different direction. My problem with Iranian political system, is not that they are Muslims or somewhat revolutionary. But that they are not revolutionary enough. If people like myself was in power, then the western enemies would never even dream of putting Iran in this situation.

    It is obvious that the state is opted for a path of appeasement and servitude, as evident recently by signals given at UN  and by FM. While at home the signal to the public, was one of resistance. The influence of liberals in Iranian politics is evident in many ways. From curtailing Democratic rights and  lack of national and social organisation, to curtailing defence by stopping a nuclear Detterent.

    We can not justify this inaction and refuse to establish defense and retaliate militarily against yank, no longer. The Iranian people must know the truth, about this subservient element in their own society. And expand democracy and revolutionise politics in Iran. And by knowing the truth, they will then organise to fight the enemy by necessary war. Instead of lies and false hope of negotitiations, used by the liberals, to drag the country into defeat.

    The Western yank and Anglo enemy, knew that such an open warfare on Iran by assassination and downing of plane, that the people of Iran will be confronted with the reality of the defeatist and collaborationist nature of their state and government. But they were happy about this, thinking that such revelation would weaken their resolve and make them hopeless against revolution. But in reality they have shown their hand and exposed their agents. Iran people, will I believe overcome these problems. And burn the dead corpses of their invading troops.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:36 pm

    The mystery of the death of the Ukrainian side of the Boeing 737-800 in Iran https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2826764.html

    https://ria.ru/20200113/1563339983.html

    https://iz.ru/963756/2020-01-13/v-irane-rasskazali-o-preimushchestvakh-ukhoda-ssha-iz-blizhnego-vostoka


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:54 pm

    So far everything goes according to the initial plan that my resources said. Turkey and Russia settle Libya, then Turkey moves to Iraq and all together push USA out of both Syria and Iraq. Iran via its proxies will apply maximum pressure by harassing USA contractors all the time.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:06 pm

    Journalists covering US embassy rooftop evacuation will earn big $!
    Even w/o them, there r enough cellphone cameras to capture it!
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:01 pm


    I know Danes are as soft as they come but psychologists? For this? Seriously? lol1

    Interview with Danish soldier who was in Al Assad airbase during Iranian missile attack

    https://nyheder.tv2.dk/udland/2020-01-10-dansk-soldat-efter-iransk-angreb-jeg-foelte-mig-magtesloes

    Translation via Google Translate:

    In a bunker in Iraq, Danish sergeant John and the other Danish soldiers waited for several hours for the Iranian attack on the Ain al-Asad military base in Al Anbar province in western Iraq overnight.

    - It was terrible. It cannot be described and it should not be experienced. We could do nothing, we could just accept. So we couldn't use our training in that situation, he tells TV 2.

    Correspondent Rasmus Tantholdt has interviewed him in Kuwait City after most of the 133 soldiers who were on base were evacuated.

    Several sources tell TV 2 that about six hours before Iran sent missiles to two military bases in Iraq, the Danish government and the defense knew of the impending attack. So John and the other soldiers at the base were notified of the attack several hours before it happened, and they waited for hours in the bunker of the attack.

    - We actually sat down for a while and waited for them to finish it so we could return to everyday life again. I don't know how long we waited, but it was several hours, John says.

    But then came the attack.

    - Suddenly the first layer comes, as I call it. Nine rockets a barely a ton each. It cannot be described. I've never experienced anything like it, and I hope to never come to it again, says John.

    Violent attack

    The attack was so severe that the bunker shook and dust penetrated in large quantities.

    - We had to sit with scarves on our faces just to breathe, says John.

    But it was the ignorance and powerlessness that were the worst for the Danish soldiers.

    - The ignorance of how close to the next one is and when it will come. After all, we had no idea down there. We could just sit and take a seat. We couldn't do any of what we're trained for. We could just wait, says John.

    The Danish soldiers reacted differently along the way.

    - Some sit and tell jokes to protect themselves. Some are closing in on themselves, and some are shedding a tear, says the Danish sergeant.

    Surprised

    When the attack was over, the Danish soldiers were surprised that, after all, the destruction was not greater.

    - The first setbacks were so severe that we were sure we were going to a golden desert and nothing was left. We were really surprised it wasn't over our heads. I would estimate that the nearest rocket hit 300 feet from us, and as we walked around afterwards, there were half helicopters and holes so big that you could park a van in them, John says.

    Now that the Danish soldiers have been a few days away from the experience, the mood has changed. It is still crowded, but the soldiers are also relieved and they enjoy themselves in Kuwait, playing cards and talking to the family at home. Psychologists are now on their way to Kuwait to help the Danish soldiers recover from the experience.

    - We really need them. This was a situation we were not trained in, says John.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:16 pm

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ...

    This dickhead should try to imagine how the kids felt in Iraq and Syria and vietnam. ... when his US friends bombed them for no reason with hundreds time more firepower than those ten missiles.

    I hope the psy they are sending will be good at removing propaganda from what is left of his brain.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:55 pm

    Subjects under monarchic & theocratic regimes will always have many things to complain about. France of Louis XIV, British & Spanish colonies in the Americas, Russia of Nicholas II, Ching China, KSA, Bahrain, & Afghanistan r cases in point. Iran is no different.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:19 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Subjects under monarchic & theocratic regimes will always have many things to complain about. France of Louis XIV, British & Spanish colonies in the Americas, Russia of Nicholas II, Ching China, KSA, Bahrain, & Afghanistan r cases in point. Iran is no different.

    Every clown assumes that they will be a millionaire under any other regime. This is the syndrome in the former USSR and Warsaw Pact. Lots of
    welfare bums waiting for the easy money they supposedly were deprived of by the totalitarian regime of oppression. Western capitalism uses
    this defective human psychology by making such morons believe that they are living in a free choice utopia. No system on the planet gives
    proles free choice. It is all managed and decided upon by a tiny clique. It has been this way since humans abandoned hunting and gathering
    to settle in farming. Once they did that, they became instant victims of gangsters who could blackmail them for tribute with threats of destroying
    their crops (burning fields of wheat in August is super easy and winter will not be merciful). That is where all the kings and queens started from,
    as thugs. Of course, they allied with whatever shamans (aka church) were around to make themselves holy.

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:34 am

    I know Danes are as soft as they come but psychologists? For this? Seriously

    Of course they need psychologists in that time being attacked and defenceless with nothing at all they could do except perhaps run away, their whole world view changed... there was no surprise involved, they had plenty of warning, but even with the warning there was nothing at all they could do to protect themselves... their training teaches them what to do and how to react to all sorts of things, but they had no training for this because this is something the enemy isn't supposed to be able to do to them the all powerful NATO... well guess what... the warning proved they didn't want to kill people but the comment about the helicopters suggests that didn't apply to their hardware and they likely would have damaged some very very expensive aircraft.

    These people thought being part of NATO would keep them safe... they have their airforce to protect them from enemy aircraft with SAMs and ABM systems to protect them from ballistic missile attack... they are video game players where one of the bad guys they can't kill reached out from the monitor and put its bloody hand on their shoulder... next time it might reach through their chest and rip out their heart... without warning... of course they need to talk to someone...

    This dickhead should try to imagine how the kids felt in Iraq and Syria and vietnam. ... when his US friends bombed them for no reason with hundreds time more firepower than those ten missiles.

    Yes, he should imagine how ordinary people like his family at home would feel about a violent attack that happens without warning that they are of course not trained for and is intended to kill as many as possible that happens every day around the world with their drones and cruise missiles and the results of their surrogate forces of moderate terrorists...


    I hope the psy they are sending will be good at removing propaganda from what is left of his brain.

    Sadly the people they send will be in the same military they are and will change the propaganda to show why they are there and why they are fighting because we would never do anything like this only Iran does this sort of thing because they are bad...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:44 am

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/middleeast/iran-strike-al-asad-base-iraq-exclusive-intl/index.html

    The USN can't even position its BMD capable ships to defend those inland bases due to azimut ballistics or whatever is the correct term.





    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:30 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:26 am

    American murderer.

    https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202001131078026961-iran-jet-disaster-setup/


    I think Iran should immediately continue it's direct Bombardment of bases of yank, North of PG region. War has started, and Iran looses big time by waiting. Since economy being hammered by sanctions. And enemy already killing important military target and also hitting civilian plane for psy ops. There are reports of force build up. And Iran benefits by striking early. Before this force stationed and deployed.

    The aim is drive Yanks out of important trade routes to China and Russia and to Syria. A living space. SRBM can be used, but only against fixed target. The Yanks will no doubt disperse assets and move them around. So Iran needs to have Army ground forces, that raid yank forces to drive them out.

    These ground units, need not station permanently in foreign country. Simply to inflict loossess and make impossible any retaliatory operations by Yanks.

    For this  reason, they need very fast strike and retreat. Covered by mobile AD, that travel forward with them. And retreat with them. I think only a few offensives needed, to make Yanks leave neighbouring countries. These countries will show less objections also. Since there will be no occupation by Iran of their territory.

    Reliance on irregular forces attacks, to launch limited strikes on yank units, like recent attack against Balad air base or attack against Humvee in Afghanistan, not a quick method. Does not disrupt operations quickly. The enemy able to recover and resupply. Must have greatest force and speed used against them now.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_(military)
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:55 pm

    A certain faction of the Iranian elite need to first sort out how to handle Rouhani and his clan before proceeding any further with an aggressive posture against the Americans. If they can weather their own Gorbachev that would be quite a feat.

    There is correlation when American presidents like certain leaders and when they don't. Obama liked Rouhani, and made everything in U.S power to help him get into office and fuck Ahmadinejad. Reagan loved Gorby, and so did Bush. Clinton loved Yeltsin. That is to say, there is no personal affection involved, but a preference based on the fact that American strategist have made the calculations that those individuals best serve American interest as opposed to their rivals. Putin "likes" Trump - or so is the charge. Well Yes... Trump through his actions is adversely deteriorating the empire more so, in Russia's view, than a liberal like Clinton would, as far as Russian interests are concerned.

    The IRGC is not in tune and in quarrel's with the ruling "president"... a house divided can not stand. Much less in matters so important as "getting the U.S out of Syria/Iraq" or in how to respond to a blatant assassination of a nation's general, hero and icon. Major policy disagreements, as well as quarreling regarding who makes which or what decision(s) is problematic.

    If you're the president you can't have that division with the most important institution guaranteeing the safety of the nation -- which carries the real hands-on muscle of your foreign policy in the region. If you're the IRGC you can't have a president that will not back you up on the decisions taken at the commander level or on the strategy necessary to confront the enemy and the challenges. Operating with your hands tied and unsure of the level of support you enjoy from the president is constraining, paralyzing, and weakening. And I don't want to go out on a limb, but from reading the beefs.... it's clear to me that if it were up to Rouhani and his clan, the IRGC would be slowly disbanded into the dustbin of history - whether by concerted (well calculated) bureaucratic maneuvering or atrophy (same result). That would be devastating for Iran. The nuclear deal was the only saving grace of the Rouhani administration, and that's been dead for quite a while. Outside of that any other competent administration could have ran the country with less internal divisiveness.

    To get rid of the liberals will take significant time (elections) and a lot of political maneuvering since they know how to market themselves very well.  Khomeini has his hands full and he's clearly not as bright as his predecessor..... already lost one of his favorite sons. To his credit, the IRGC has expanded greatly under his watch and has become an immense lever of power and asset for the Iranian nation. He does have an internal political mess in his hands. His lasting legacy will depend a lot on how Iran settles that now and in the near future. He simply can't import Nasrallah to run Iran.

    The empire is taking advantage of this internal chaos to sow internal discord - street protests and the MEK is just a pressure point to keep elite bickering from subsiding - as are sanctions. The assassination of Soleimani raises the tension level within that discord. Internal chaos among the elite is the real prize, and the main goal - for they are the real decision markers - not the common sheep. Internal division = muddy waters = easy fishing for disenchanted traitors and collaborators = further penetration of plants to sow internal chaos. I guess the Iranians have the luck of having a weak U.S president in office - by weak I mean internally with elections coming up. Trump's certainly pushed them out of their comfort zone - by design. If he had a unified house, it could be worse for the Iranians today.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:43 pm

    https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154549/WORLD-WAR-III-Was-Ukrainian-flight-PS752-a-Western-false-flag

    Now that truth coming out about yank involvement, directly in shooting down Iran plane. I like to ask question again from people here with electronic knowledge about claims made in this article. It is important to know, exactly where attack came from, so future attack can be stopped. This guy claim Boeing plane controls and transponder can be jacked remotely. Is this right? I don't believe it, because this makes every plane flying in sky, a disaster waiting to happen. And if yank has such ability, why not use it in Syria, against Russian transports and fighters? Like claim of sattelite observation of TOR, missile strike, made from sattelite, being remote or impossible. I believe it to be a diversion. Superman magic technology does not exist. Because he claim to know also operation of TOR system being in automatic mode, and shooting without operator ! when object approach without transponder code. He says operator not guilty. Does he want operator to go free? He loves Iranians?

    To me for this chain of events to work, a lot of assumptions must be true. The extensive chain of events must follow to give exact result for a precise photo shoot by camera of exact moment of impact. I don't buy it myself. For me the far simpler solution is a special ops team with MANPAD, that shot plane. And this guy is trying to divert attention from real culprit, who may still be hiding in area, awaiting extraction. What you think?
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:18 pm

    nomadski wrote:https://en.mehrnews.com/news/154549/WORLD-WAR-III-Was-Ukrainian-flight-PS752-a-Western-false-flag

    Now that truth coming out about yank involvement, directly in shooting down Iran plane. I like to ask question again from people here with electronic knowledge about claims made in this article. It is important to know, exactly where attack came from, so future attack can be stopped. This guy claim Boeing plane controls and transponder can be jacked remotely. Is this right? I don't believe it, because this makes every plane flying in sky, a disaster waiting  to happen. And if yank has such ability, why not use it in Syria, against Russian transports and fighters? Like claim of sattelite observation of TOR, missile strike, made from sattelite, being remote or impossible. I believe it to be a diversion.  Superman magic technology does not exist. Because he claim to know  also operation of TOR system being in automatic mode, and shooting without operator ! when object approach without transponder code. He says operator not guilty. Does he want operator to go free?  He loves Iranians?

    To me for this chain of events to work, a lot of assumptions must be true. The extensive chain of events must follow to give exact result for a precise photo shoot by camera of exact moment of impact. I don't buy it myself. For me the far simpler solution is a special ops team with MANPAD, that shot plane. And this guy is trying to divert attention from real culprit, who may still be hiding in area, awaiting extraction. What you think?

    I read this and it's garbage, That is all speculation and not one single fact is in this.

    You think it's true because you hate as you put it the 'yanks', so your clear bias drives your thoughts.

    So you to say we made a false flag and cling to whatever half-assed article online says it.

    Btw A Russian government ran news outlet is hardly proof of anything. That's like me quoting a CNN article or FOX.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:17 pm

    Well, the timing of the events point to a set up. This been the US & Israel modus operandi for a long time now.
    If not them, who would benefit from the resulting internal strife in Iran?
    The notion of two Chinese client states dominating the Middle East must induce more than a few headaches in Washington, Tel-Aviv, and Riyadh; therefore the push for regime change in those two states is increasing and the murders of Gen. Soleimani and a planeload of civilians are both parts of that push.
    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/01/12/ps752-shot-down-in-regime-change-attempt/

    Barr and Pompeo shift justification for Iran strike from 'imminent' threat to deterrence



    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:30 pm

    @ SeigSoloyov

    When I was born and I was three years old,  my parents bought me a lone ranger toy hat and six shooter, for my birth day. I have lived most of my life in the west.

    https://youtu.be/fpW_CCrhL_Q

    https://youtu.be/k9Y5DT4oPpc


    Cf :

    https://youtu.be/q0nuhI05QyA

    Has no visible plume!  The night shot of TOR, is like sputnik launch.!

    https://youtu.be/_l7Dkh2pnKM

    Or maybe these are not SAM. They shine like lamp, with solid motor  still ignited well above 6000 feet, or 2 to 3 seconds before they supposedly hit plane.

    @ tsavo

    Look at this video of TOR launch at dusk. The motor burn is bright and visible. In video of Iran plane shoot down, the Rocket motor burn is not visible or bright. Points to smaller motor burn. What you think?

    @ Atlas club

    Iran has a multi - layer political system. I know leadership is old and busy. So simple message is that the power of liberals to be curtailed. Trust in IRGC leadership. Prepare for immediate war. Go to war.


    Last edited by nomadski on Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:25 pm; edited 4 times in total
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:48 pm

    Look at this video of TOR launch at dusk. The motor burn is bright and visible. In video of Iran plane shot down, the Rocket motor burn is not visible or bright. Points to smaller motor burn.
    The cell camera POV has zero angle of the missile + the altitude at which it occurred probably resulted in the illusion of it.

    Ukrainian Boeing: who, how and why will use the massacre
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2829105.html

    Greater Middle East: the perspective of China
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2826939.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:29 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add links)
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:03 am

    "Massacre" is pure propaganda language.   And total abuse of the English language.   Massacre is something that is done with the intent to
    kill.   Only paid yaps and retards would claim that Iran had the intent to shoot down the Ukr jet.   Why then not shoot down every other
    civilian jet if they are so "evil".   Just as with MH17 drivel language for MSM consumer sheep.    Putin can down dozens and dozens of
    civilian aircraft if he gets off on it.   Instead he supposedly "orders" one to be shot down under ridiculous circumstances that serve
    on the agendas of his enemies.   The exact same BS has transpired in Iran with the same western propaganda chorus spewing the
    same intellectually insulting excrement.

    BTW, regnum is one of the Russian liberast 5th column misinformation outfits.

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:26 am

    The article doesn't lay blame squarely on Iran, but semantics aside, innocent people got killed- in a crossfire.
    That EW was involved isn't beyond the means of the US & Israel.
    Boeing planes been involved in 5 crashes/shoot downs under suspicious circumstances- 2 KAL B-707/747, 2 Malaysian B-777s & now 1 Ukrainian B-737. The USSR, Russia, China & Iran suffered as a result- all US rivals.
    It's also the latest manifestation of information warfare in an undeclared hybrid war against Iran, China & Russia.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:51 am; edited 1 time in total
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:41 am

    https://twitter.com/HadiNasrallah/status/1216026438933061632

    Nobody cares when the "good guys" do it deliberately.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:18 am

    As I was saying- this is from last year: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/23/us-launched-cyber-attack-on-iranian-rockets-and-missiles-reports?fbclid=IwAR0DfTZCOKgllNbVV0HVD-0p2lnR0BAPqIZoOSgiKP282UfFjIdyQsjgEVM

    If Afghanistan wasn't invaded in 2001, all those crashes, some with Ukrainian & Russian crew, wouldn't have happened:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan#Contract_aircraft,_non-military_aircraft_losses

    https://tvrain.ru/news/opublikovano_video_predpolagaemogo_popadanija_dvuh_iranskih_raket_v_ukrainskij_samolet-500982/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:37 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    Post  nomadski on Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:45 pm

    @ Tsavo lion

    Even in war, there are rules. The assassination of the Iranian General, who was in Iraq for peace talks is at least a war crime. And if the Yanks had any hand in bringing down the Ukraine plane, then it is also a war crime. So it is important to carry out investigation, to find out what happened. By a court. But unfortunately the black boxes have gone to France. Awaiting a similar fate to flight 17, black boxes, in the hands of the Dutch. Yet there are political interests in Iran, that even before completion of investigation by judges, have apportioned blame. I don't know if comments in this BBC article are reliable. But for Mr. Zarif to state that a lie has been made by IRGC, is certainly uncalled for. Especially when strong indication of set ups and third party actors and infiltration. Plays into the hands of the enemy. They love this type of thing. Iranian officials whose statements are helping the enemies, should be aware of what they say.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51119415

    It seems the resistance against yank bases is carrying on. By longer range missiles. Katushas. Yet no reports on direct attacks on bases in Afghanistan..............

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/01/katyusha-rockets-target-iraqi-taji-military-camp-200114195340384.html


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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

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