US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

Isos wrote:The other weired thing with this story is that the plane was taking off from Teheran near the supposed tor emplacement. So they had it on their radar from the begining and there was like 7 or 8 other take offs the hours before the accident with the same flight path. So it wasn't a surprise for them.

And another weired thing is that at take off the plane is full of fuel. A missile would have make it explode in the air at the moment it intercepted it. Civilian plane's fuel tanks are not protected likesu-25's to not allow their explosion if I'm not wrong.

A very nice observation and statement.

Iran has some nice russian and chinese made radars. They monitor the air situation around their country anytime. They knew exactly how many planes and drones the ami had in the air in Iraq. They know exactly from where to expect an attack. It is highly unlikely that some iranian officer would launch an short-range air defence missile against a plane directly above Teheran without warning of an attack from the radar stations at the borders of the country.

Most probable cause of the accident: it was a Boeing 737.

Next likely scenario: a bomb, brought by the plane from Kiev. Some sort of dark operation to blame Iran (as now happened) with a little help from the western Nazi friends in Kiev.

Some years ago there was a operation from the german BND (on order from the CIA) to frame Russia in a certain light. Plutonium was found on a plane from Moscow to Munich. Large press conference. Evil russians can´t look after their nuclear material... bla, bla, bla. Later it turned out that the Plutonium was from Spain and was brought onboard the plane by the BND in Munich. It flew to Moscow and back and was then "found".

Do not apply rationality to the US dirty tricks. They are banking on irrational hate. Of course Iran has no motive
to shoot down some airliner. The only "motive" is the hate propaganda that the USA is smearing Iran with, that Iranians
are evil and spooge themselves killing innocent civilians. This is exactly the BS narrative that they applied to MH17
and Russia. Putin sent a Buk system to take out one civilian plane over Ukraine and then come back. No other motive
than pure evil.

Note the pattern: Putin offs his "critics" (e.g. Litvinenko) with bizarre boutique weapons (Polonium) to leave an
"indisputable" finger print for the NATzO Sherlocks to discover. He does the same bizarre mass murder of MH17
passengers with a ludicrous deployment of a Buk system. "Because he is evil". The key is that he is not hiding
his "evil" and is leaving the precious NATzO west "clear" evidence. The NATzO west is pulling the same smear job
on Iran.

BTW, the chances of the 737 crashing at such a precise time window are very low, even if it is a crap aircraft.
Recall the crash rate in all the previous cases: there is a gap of months between crashes and not hours. Thus
having coincident crashing with Iranian missile launches has vanishing probability. The probability that this is
a psy-op is vastly greater and is underscored by pure US motive to play dirty tricks.

Hole wrote:Iran has some nice russian and chinese made radars. They monitor the air situation around their country anytime. They knew exactly how many planes and drones the ami had in the air in Iraq. They know exactly from where to expect an attack. It is highly unlikely that some iranian officer would launch an short-range air defence missile against a plane directly above Teheran without warning of an attack from the radar stations at the borders of the country.

Most probable cause of the accident: it was a Boeing 737.

Next likely scenario: a bomb, brought by the plane from Kiev. Some sort of dark operation to blame Iran (as now happened) with a little help from the western Nazi friends in Kiev.

Some years ago there was a operation from the german BND (on order from the CIA) to frame Russia in a certain light. Plutonium was found on a plane from Moscow to Munich. Large press conference. Evil russians can´t look after their nuclear material... bla, bla, bla. Later it turned out that the Plutonium was from Spain and was brought onboard the plane by the BND in Munich. It flew to Moscow and back and was then "found".

NATzO and other mass media consumers ignore such details. The mind of a typical poorly educated sap is really something. To them
2 + 2 = 5 can make sense. Reality is only fuzzy at the quantum scale and even there it is rational. Ignoring the clear motive
and pattern of US and minion psy-ops is not an option. No matter how much one believes that NATzO is just and holy.

BTW, the jet to Moscow shtick was used in the Litvinenko case as well. NATzO Sherlocks "discovered" Polonium traces on some Moscow
to London flight, thereby "proving" that the Polonium originated in Russia. Utter retardation and not proof.

The Iranians are playing right into the hands of Western propaganda machine, by running this fake story about supposedly Iranian missile bringing down a commercial plane. This is a perfect diversion from the real story of the murder of  General Soliemani. The press is suddenly full of news about all this rubbish. With only one or two pages devoted to this main story. I think the Liberal media in Iran are complicit in trying to cover this and Bury this story. Together with calling the missile strike a retaliation for his murder by foreign minister. And conclusion of this chapter. Another traitor Liberal ploy by the Iranian liberals. And it does not end there. The Iranian UN rep, tells Yanks that provided they don't attack, then Iran won't attack. This means they have  capitulated to the Yanks. And have left unanswered a big crime. The entire state is involved. Or almost the entire state. There is absolutely no proof of any casualties on yank side. And they ignore the fact that Iraq prime minister said on TV, that Iraq was warned in advance. You tell me, they did not tell the Yanks to evacuate? And that the Yanks did not jump on the chance to retaliate the supposed death of personnel at bases hit by missiles?

Yet the aftermath of the strike is an organised effort by Iranian state to cover up this murder. And carry out a theatre for the population at home to appease them. While capitulation and servitude is their high skill. I think this is a national disgrace. One from a deeply compromised state and government. However even if individuals are making brave statements. I fear nothing will be done to save Iran from complete defeat. The liberals in power will make sure of that. Yet more sanctions follow. And the yank bases stay. Together with brave statements. People will soon forget..........

Seems like a top head US guy is in Baghdad. Or maybe a fake to see if Iran will target him. Some also say a militia chef was arrested.

ELINT News
@ELINTNews
·
1h
#UPDATE: Iraq: Al-Mayadeen correspondent: Baghdad airport sees movement of U.S. military convoy expected to carry guest

Neither US nor Iran want an all out war. For that, if it comes, we'll have to wait after the 2020 election, no matter who wins.

Iran invited France to investigate this event.

But if Iran shot down the aircraft why would they even consider outside investigators that might be interested in the truth instead of making Iran look good?

Some years ago there was a operation from the german BND (on order from the CIA) to frame Russia in a certain light. Plutonium was found on a plane from Moscow to Munich. Large press conference. Evil russians can´t look after their nuclear material... bla, bla, bla. Later it turned out that the Plutonium was from Spain and was brought onboard the plane by the BND in Munich. It flew to Moscow and back and was then "found".

Well in the same vein... are the nationalities of the people on the plane based on their passport or their birth certificate... it wasn't that long ago New Zealand had a hissy fight with Israel over Israeli assassins using New Zealand passports to gain entry to places where israelis would not be welcome... there fore putting New Zealanders at risk... who knows who these people were, though they don't normally do suicide bombing... is there a full passenger list including people who did not actually board the plane... that would be interesting.

From a pilots perspective a fire on board or a missile attack... most of the time they would not have any idea of what is going on at the time except they see fire on the wing or smell smoke or lose engine power or whatever... but normal procedure would be to contact control and tell them what was happening.

To them
2 + 2 = 5 can make sense.

To be fair that is a common human thing... 2 plus 2 is what we can see but we know the answer is 42, so the other 38 must be dark matter and dark energy... Putin is the dark lord and has a lot of energy which really matters a lot so he is the missing 38 and none of the other western media outlets contradict them... in fact they repeat the same message so a lazy mind is happy to accept it as being true because the alternative is that it is really something else and it might be worse to realise you are a slave to an evil empire yourself with nothing you can do about it... they want to stay in the Matrix...

BTW, the jet to Moscow shtick was used in the Litvinenko case as well. NATzO Sherlocks "discovered" Polonium traces on some Moscow
to London flight, thereby "proving" that the Polonium originated in Russia. Utter retardation and not proof.

Well the stuff is so damn valuable I always suspected it wasn't an assassination attempt... it was smuggling that went wrong because the container was clearly leaking and the smuggler died because he was carrying this material and was contaminated with it. Never once saw that even suggested by any western media.

Seems pretty much more logical to me than Putin did it.

Big_Gazza wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:5. No MH17 was Shot down by the rebels but Ukraine did knowingly send the plane to their deaths hoping the rebels would shoot it down. So I will agree and say the ultimate blame rests on Kiev.

Bullshit.  Putting the Iran crash aside for a minute, this MH17 crap is a propaganda claim and there is plenty of evidence to show that its just another of a long line of US/NATOista lies.  Ukropi BUK were active in the area and the missile debris recovered is from a missile that has been stored in Ukro warehouse since manufacture.  The Russians don't use this model anymore so the idea of a Russian BUK TEL trundling across the border, firing a single shot, and then trundling back again is FUCKING NONSENSE, despite what fabricated photo "evidence" the Banderites choose to concoct.

Ukros shot down MH17 and these lies are a pathetic attempt at diverting blame on to Russia & Ukr rebels.  Add it to the long list of agitprop BS concocted by the West and pointed at Russias way (like the Skripal affair, "state sponsored" sports doping and CW use in Syria).

This MH-17 regurgitated propaganda is getting tiresome,

Allow me to clear the air here.....

We Dutchies send our 11th airborne troops to the crash site under an U.N mission to Ukraine right after the incident under an U.N mandate, where we where greeted by our new Nato Allies at the Kharkov airfield sporting a certain runic symbol in their flags and on their tanks that was popular in Germany in world war 2.

While we where asking our government this where the guys that where our new allies, The "rebels" had the common human decency to put our perished civilians into refrigerated trains in the middle of the summer.

The answer of our goverment was to board the aircraft back to the Netherlands as we could not be seen with our new "allies" holding some questionable ideologies.
while we left, here came the salvage unit from the American Airforce from Rammstein airbase to make sure to clean up the Ukie mess.

They actually mistook MH-17 for Putin's presidential plane returning from South America. We dont know how either, they just bare general simmilarities and Putin would never fly over an warzone. but after the ukrainian Su-25 hit MH-17 with an air to air missile MH-17 began identifiying itself as having an emergency and started to make a turn back to the Kiev Airport and in panic the SU-25 pilot switched to its autocannon and wrecked the cockpit in automatic fire.

The original black box had the audio recordings to prove it. Boeing technicians confirmed it themselves to us that MH-17's recordings where intact and turned back to the airport after the initial hit.
nobody here even wonder's why nobody ever saw even a moment of those black boxes?.
Some suicidal german copilot of germanwings 9525 crashes his aircraft in the ground and a few days later everyone hears the audio recordings. and MH-17 recordings just dissapear. Nobody sees here the quantum leap in logic?.

Maybe ask van der vlist transport, an heavy transport civilian transport contractor that works for the Dutch Government what secrecy contracts they had to sign to bring under 50% of MH-17 home and never tell what they saw there. Most  notably all the americans going trough the wreckage to make sure that not Air to Air missile fragments are present or any irrefutable proof of 30 MM cannon shells.

how i know?, i was in charge of handling aerial logistics for our Dutch troops in mission zones. i left the service at the end of 2015. You know the Americans are full of shit when you enquire about their aircraft cargo and they are transporting "miscellaneous" back to Rammstein on their C-17's and C-5's From Ukraine.

Pick a moderator on here, and ill gladly send proof of my service in the millitary to them if you still doubt my claims and they can verify.

That means tough the one questioning me get's the same treatment and gets asked to prove their service themselves to an moderator.

This forum got great members from multiple backgrounds, but some of this Role-playing level posting is just downright childish and not worth my time. Hell, it is not worth any other people's time either.

Why would the rebels allow a US salvage team (under any guise) on their territory?!
Didn't they turn over the black boxes to Malaysians?

Iran's Foreign Minister Javad Zarif has admitted the facts on tweeter


"profound regrets, apologies, and condolences" to the families of the victims.

"A sad day," he wrote. "Preliminary conclusions of internal investigation by Armed Forces: Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster. Our profound regrets, apologies and condolences to our people, to the families of all victims, and to other affected nations."

https://twitter.com/JZarif?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1215847283381755914&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Flive-updates%2Firan-plane-crash-iranians-deny-us-claims-missile-shot-down-ukrainian-plane-today-2020-01-10-live-updates%2F


So just has I said the sam crew thought it was a bomber and took it down. Facts are facts. You all let your hatred blind your reasoning, it's sad really.

Iran admitted the fault and took the blame, that's respectable.

Tsavo Lion wrote:Why would the rebels allow a US salvage team (under any guise) on their territory?!
Didn't they turn over the black boxes to Malaysians?

The rebels where not unreasonable. they allowed NATO to salvage MH-17 remains and told us they loaded this refrigerator train with the body's.
I am an Dutch airborne specialist, when the american's ask us "jump" we just ask "how high?" in a stereotypical example.
Also the Malasyians just handed over the black boxes over the the Netherlands without any arguement.
Lets just agree my government has not one shred of autonomy or independence.
Handing any evidence to them is handing evidence over to the U.S.A's personal opinion.

it is clear they sold out their own citizens in the shooting down to blame the russians for shooting down MH-17.

Our national newspaper's where already screaming "russia shot down our airliner" before MH-17's burning debri's hit the ground.

Our government even disavowed our troops set ever foot on Ukraine. while we where at Kharkov but where ordered to return immediately.



Lets just say i i rather wish to be on the receiving end of an firing squad than be part of this new "ukrainian democracy".

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Iran's Foreign Minister Javad Zarif has admitted the facts on tweeter


"profound regrets, apologies, and condolences" to the families of the victims.

"A sad day," he wrote. "Preliminary conclusions of internal investigation by Armed Forces: Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster. Our profound regrets, apologies and condolences to our people, to the families of all victims, and to other affected nations."

https://twitter.com/JZarif?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1215847283381755914&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Flive-updates%2Firan-plane-crash-iranians-deny-us-claims-missile-shot-down-ukrainian-plane-today-2020-01-10-live-updates%2F


So just has I said the sam crew thought it was a bomber and took it down. Facts are facts. You all let your hatred blind your reasoning, it's sad really.

Iran admitted the fault and took the blame, that's respectable.

You were right Seig, I apologize if I said anything bad to you about this incident.

The Iranians should just give the control of their airspace to Russia, how the fuck do you don't know what is a civilian aircraft? We're the responders off? Total fucking morons. There is still more to come out but this is a big fuck up.

They can kiss goodbye to money that would have come from civilian airlines using their air space and it opens them upto to legal lawsuits.

The Iranians should just go to Russia, with hat in hand, sign off the newly discovered oil fields to Russia and get high tech air defence system from Russia and ask Russia to help them with controlling their airspace.

@Par

No problem, it takes guts for someone to admit when they are wrong and I respect that.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:@Par

No problem, it takes guts to admit when they are wrong and I respect that.

What happens now? More US Tomahawks flying at Iran?

par far wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:@Par

No problem, it takes guts to admit when they are wrong and I respect that.

What happens now? More US Tomahawks flying at Iran?

I was going to add this onto my post.

"Like I said they are a number of issues that transponders won't work, despite what the "experts" here claim.

I do not know the exact reasoning, of course, only Iran would know at this point".




No we will not attack Iran over this, it was an accident. A sad one but still an accident, as for what happens. I imagine Iran will be getting hard times from civilian markets over this but that is on them.

I do not expect any Military action over this.

Airbornewolf wrote:

This MH-17 regurgitated propaganda is getting tiresome,

Allow me to clear the air here.....

We Dutchies send our 11th airborne troops to the crash site under an U.N mission to Ukraine right after the incident under an U.N mandate, where we where greeted by our new Nato Allies at the Kharkov airfield sporting a certain runic symbol in their flags and on their tanks that was popular in Germany in world war 2.

While we where asking our government this where the guys that where our new allies, The "rebels" had the common human decency to put our perished civilians into refrigerated trains in the middle of the summer.

The answer of our goverment was to board the aircraft back to the Netherlands as we could not be seen with our new "allies" holding some questionable ideologies.
while we left, here came the salvage unit from the American Airforce from Rammstein airbase to make sure to clean up the Ukie mess.

They actually mistook MH-17 for Putin's presidential plane returning from South America. We dont know how either, they just bare general simmilarities and Putin would never fly over an warzone. but after the ukrainian Su-25 hit MH-17 with an air to air missile MH-17 began identifiying itself as having an emergency and started to make a turn back to the Kiev Airport and in panic the SU-25 pilot switched to its autocannon and wrecked the cockpit in automatic fire.

The original black box had the audio recordings to prove it. Boeing technicians confirmed it themselves to us that MH-17's recordings where intact and turned back to the airport after the initial hit.
nobody here even wonder's why nobody ever saw even a moment of those black boxes?.
Some suicidal german copilot of germanwings 9525 crashes his aircraft in the ground and a few days later everyone hears the audio recordings. and MH-17 recordings just dissapear. Nobody sees here the quantum leap in logic?.

Maybe ask van der vlist transport, an heavy transport civilian transport contractor that works for the Dutch Government what secrecy contracts they had to sign to bring under 50% of MH-17 home and never tell what they saw there. Most  notably all the americans going trough the wreckage to make sure that not Air to Air missile fragments are present or any irrefutable proof of 30 MM cannon shells.

how i know?, i was in charge of handling aerial logistics for our Dutch troops in mission zones. i left the service at the end of 2015. You know the Americans are full of shit when you enquire about their aircraft cargo and they are transporting "miscellaneous" back to Rammstein on their C-17's and C-5's From Ukraine.

Pick a moderator on here, and ill gladly send proof of my service in the millitary to them if you still doubt my claims and they can verify.

That means tough the one questioning me get's the same treatment and gets asked to prove their service themselves to an moderator.

This forum got great members from multiple backgrounds, but some of this Role-playing level posting is just downright childish and not worth my time. Hell, it is not worth any other people's time either.

Finally, someone with a lick of sense. One thing that has always bothered me was a vid on VK or something similar during the event. The first DNR unit on the scene was a I think Lutanant and three EM's. The wreckage was still burning hard. My wife is Russian and being born and raised in Russia she well knows the various accents and speech foibles of different areas of Russia. She says the three soldiers visible in the vid were speaking the east Ukraine Russian dialect with accent.

The officer asked one EM "Who shot this one down?"

EM. "They did."

Officer. "Who shot the other one down?"

EM. "We did."

Officer. "Shit."

I've never seen any official record of a Dry being lost that day, but by that time the Ukes were regularly being shot down at low altitudes, by what, who knows and who cares, operative being 'low altitudes'. However (sometimes my memory is slow), one local witness told some news folks, I think the next day, that a 'small plane' followed the 'big plane' as it came down.

Anyone who has seen the wreckage of the left side cockpit panel knows there are entrance and exit holes in that panel. This was never 'officially' explained. Airborne, you know and I know how thoroughly the crash site was cleaned and you know and I know why, this is SOP. You know and I know, and half the world knows, who shot that plane down and how. The senseless verbal vomiting of the likes of 'seig soloyvov' or whatever that 'mommy's basement' sitting troll calls itself is just that, verbal bovine scatology by a false idiot.

End of argument. The ukes shot that plane down. As for the Iran plane, Iran now says they accidentally shot it down. We'll see as the dust settles. I saw no evidence of a shoot down on the two vids I saw as the plane went down.

That plane was mistaken for a UAV or CM as it was flying over a mil. base. https://ria.ru/20200111/1563279027.html


Merkel flies to Moscow for help. Urgent help
https://ria.ru/20200111/1563261125.html

Civilian planes can be used as spy tools, flying low on sensetive area. Ukraine is yank tool. Good for Iran SAM crew to be alert. They should be congratulated. Error or deviation from flight path by pilot of plane. Compensation to be paid by Ukraine to all victims. Iran has SAM and will use them. Shame not full of yank. Now back to war.........

If Iranian forces actually shot down the Ukr plane, then they need better trained personnel operating their equipment. The notion that it
was "mistaken" for an UAV because it flew over an Iranian base is breathtakingly inane. Tehran air traffic control is what sets the flight
path. Target tracking is essential under any conditions, knee jerk reaction to objects above magical geographic points is beyond retarded.
Following this brain dead reaction the Iranians would be shooting down their own civilian jets as well.

The only way that the Iranians really did shoot it down is if they were

1) sabotaged by compromised missile operators.

2) got hoaxed effectively by western intelligence agencies to think that prime assets were aboard the Ukr jet.

The first option is probable, but the second one is dubious since it passenger list is dominated by Iranians. There
was no reason to fly any assets on this jet.

nomadski wrote:
Civilian planes can be used as spy tools, flying low on sensetive area. Ukraine is yank tool.  Good for Iran SAM  crew to be alert. They should be congratulated. Error or deviation from flight path by pilot of plane. Compensation to be paid by Ukraine to all victims. Iran has SAM and will use them. Shame not full of yank. Now back to war.........

There is nothing this sort of "spying" would get that is worth the bad optics of reacting to it with a shoot down. The USA managed to fool the
USSR in the case of the Korean airliner by flying one of its spy planes in a coordinated fashion to confuse which is which. In that case the
massive deviation of the Korean jet from its rational flight path is evidence in itself that it was one big psy op. I do not see how the yanquis
could fool Iranian forces using the Ukr jet. If it really did deviate from its flight path (I have yet to see anything on this point), then much
more effort and noise can be made to turn it back. I suppose the yanquis could have sent over a UAV, but proper tracking would have
blown this ploy apart.

-Irrelevant-

Regular wrote:Plane being shot down by Iranians is really far fetched story.
I don't believe even single bullshit tweet and so should you.

Until international investigation team doesn't check interior of the plane for explosive residue, then there's no need to speculate.

I would rather look at so called victims and especially Ukrainian ones and try to trace their connections with Ukrainian paramilitary organisations

Problem with that is the Iranians have just admitted responsibility...

crod wrote:

Problem with that is the Iranians have just admitted responsibility...

Only through the tweet. Haha, let's be sceptical about it until they come though proper channels.

Also, even if they did it, they should never admit it.

Regular wrote:

crod wrote:

Problem with that is the Iranians have just admitted responsibility...

Only through the tweet. Haha, let's be sceptical about it until they come though proper channels.

Also, even if they did it, they should never admit it.

A guy like Zarif who holds a high ranking place in the government is and has held his position for seven years would not make an admission of responsibility UNLESS he got permission to do so first. This isn't some newbie this guy is a major mouthpiece for Iran, so if he said it yeah it happened end of story.

and considering this was over four hours ago and Iran hasn't said "He is lying" yeah buddy take off the tin foil har Iran bought the Jet down by accident.

But hey if that isn't enough for you how about their president saying the same thing or is that bullshit to.

"Armed Forces’ internal investigation has concluded that regrettably missiles fired due to human error caused the horrific crash of the Ukrainian plane & death of 176 innocent people. Investigations continue to identify & prosecute this great tragedy & unforgivable mistake".

https://twitter.com/hassanrouhani?lang=en