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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:41 pm


    This truncated purchases from East and West, is a combined result of a lack of long term and collective geo-political foresight. The arrow of attack, significant and recent and ancient, points to an East / west divide. As well as North / South divide. A resolution of these attacks, or a combination, points to a North West to South East tension. If we plotted, even recent military movements, together with their relative size and direction, we clearly see this. To get stability, we need front line states to be equally well armed. Hence Russia and Iran, become protectors of the East. Against the western expansion. If they form strong alliance. NATO expansion can stop. France, like England and America, share colonial expansionist idea, towards the world, particularly the East . They always support each other.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:50 pm

    France & UK were stopped at Suez Crisis by USA & USSR; France allowed/facilitated Khomeini's return to Iran from exile.
    In short, France is the wild card.

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    crod
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    Post  crod Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:44 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Since EU sucks at diplomacy,

    lol! lol! lol!
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:02 am

    https://news.antiwar.com/2020/09/28/us-threat-to-evacuate-iraq-embassy-raises-fear-of-war/

    The couldn't beat them in Syria & Afghanistan (Iran allegedly offered to pay/paid bounties for dead GIs), so may try that in Iraq.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:50 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:

    The couldn't beat them in Syria & Afghanistan (Iran allegedly offered to pay/paid bounties for dead GIs), so may try that in Iraq.

    The US defence/intelligence establishment debunked the Russian paying bounties story a month or so ago. I have no doubt that if there was any evidence at all that Iran did the same we would have heard it by now.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:11 pm

    I have no doubt that if there was any evidence at all that Iran did the same we would have heard it by now.

    If there's evidence, they won't reveal much lest intel sources, capabilities & methods r compromised.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:09 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    I have no doubt that if there was any evidence at all that Iran did the same we would have heard it by now.

    If there's evidence, they won't reveal much lest intel sources, capabilities & methods r compromised.

    Maybe but I think that you underestimate the need of some in the US to bash the Iranians.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:34 am

    To protect intel sources they just wont list them... they didn't list any intel sources when they claimed it was the Russians offering bounties, why would they think it necessary to expose any to accuse Iran?

    BTW Saudi Arabia does this sort of thing all the time...

    Besides I suspect most of their intel sources are fat retired intel officers in the UK... they give the answers they want to hear... who cares about truth or reality... what if it is not true... that is no use at all...
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:52 pm

    Looks like the Persians have trains cars/conveyor belts with ballistic missiles erect on standby ready to launch underneath hardened mountain bunkers, with likely disguised launch silos dispersed around the mountain ranges.
    "City of missiles": Iran's secret underground base was shown on video
    Iran demonstrated an underground missile base of the aerospace forces of the Islamic revolutionary guard Corps. For the first time, the rail delivery system for medium-range ballistic missiles Emad was shown.




    These weapons are delivered to special halls, from where they are then launched.

    According to the video, these secret objects are real cities hidden deep under the soil and have systems of long tunnels.

    According to military expert Yuri Lyamin, rumors about the placement of Iranian missiles underground began to circulate in the early 2000s.

    In 2011, the Iranians first showed an early version of the Shahab-3 silo launcher.

    However, the first images of "cities" with tunnels for the hidden placement and transfer of mobile installations, as well as storage facilities and launch halls began to appear only about five years ago.

    It can be assumed that such complex and expensive facilities were built in the expectation that the Islamic Republic will have to confront militarily powerful States, such as the United States or Israel. Therefore, everything was done with a large margin. It is not known whether such mines are capable of withstanding a nuclear attack, but they should survive the use of conventional ammunition.

    "As for emads, they are medium-range ballistic missiles with a liquid-fueled rocket engine and a detachable, controlled head. According to the announced tactical and technical characteristics, its maximum flight range is 1,650 km. Weight-17.5 tons. The mass of the warhead is 750 kg. The length is 15.5 m and the diameter is 1.25 m. By the way, they are not the most powerful in the Iranian arsenals, since there are already Khorramshahr missiles that can reach 2000 km, " Lyamin

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/https/rg.ru/2020/11/06/gorod-raket-iranskuiu-sekretnuiu-podzemnuiu-bazu-pokazali-na-video.html

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    crod
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    Post  crod Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:18 am

    Must have cost a fortune to construct, you’d have to think they only have one of those? I wonder was the construction and supply traffic picked up by satellites or informers/spys provided the geo location - so how well could it withstand an attack I wonder. Very impressive all the same.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:48 am

    crod wrote:Must have cost a fortune to construct, you’d have to think they only have one of those? I wonder was the construction and supply traffic picked up by satellites or informers/spys provided the geo location - so how well could it withstand an attack I wonder. Very impressive all the same.

    The Pentagram's main weapon to be used against these bunkers are free fall nuclear bombs, meaning all their ballistic missiles would be launched hours before they get their assuming Persian air defences isn't playing their role to prevent air raids. Which means the Persian ballistic missiles would of completely blitzed all of the Pentagram's strategic bases in the Middle East, Saudi oil facilities, etc. before they even get a chance to bomb the underground facilities.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:05 pm

    @ Magnumcromagnon

    If true Biden elected, then severe blow to Iran progress. Since main weakness in Iran, is no longer defence. But political structure. The country since revolution, dominated by Liberals and Conservatives. Not revolutionary groups.

    Since Trump attack on Iran, ironically things going well. Military sattelite launch. Order by Parliament to stockpile 20% Uranium. Possibly purchase of ICBM  / SLV  engine from North Korea. And 25 year strategic trade with China.

    Now all that Bidet has to do, is throw a bone for traitor Iranian Liberals, invite their Turbans for a meeting. So they can take selfie photo again. And bribe the Liberals, with lowering price of Dollar. So they make more profits. Then they will shit on progress, made already. Pour more concrete into centrifuge. Forget about China. And talk to Bidet. The one who laughed, when Soliemani murdered....... It is not illegal you know.......
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:06 pm

    nomadski wrote:@ Magnumcromagnon

    If true Biden elected, then severe blow to Iran progress. Since main weakness in Iran, is no longer defence. But political structure. The country since revolution, dominated by Liberals and Conservatives. Not revolutionary groups.

    Since Trump attack on Iran, ironically things going well. Military sattelite launch. Order by Parliament to stockpile 20% Uranium. Possibly purchase of ICBM  / SLV  engine from North Korea. And 25 year strategic trade with China.

    Now all that Bidet has to do, is throw a bone for traitor Iranian Liberals, invite their Turbans for a meeting. So they can take selfie photo again. And bribe the Liberals, with lowering price of Dollar. So they make more profits. Then they will shit on progress, made already. Pour more concrete into centrifuge. Forget about China. And talk to Bidet. The one who laughed, when Soliemani murdered....... It is not illegal you know.......

    Hillary also supported pulling out of the deal with Iran, it's likely that the Democrats have 'changed' their position with the 'times'. The problem with the Neo-Liberal Iranians is that their main branch is based in Hollywood, just like the Armenians and just look at how that turned out. The Hollywood stationed Persian Neo-Liberals are reprobates with no moral code, and are financial backers of MEK.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:55 pm


    You see, the main problem is in Iran. The MEK , the armed wing of Liberals , is a known element among Iranian people. And without support. But this Islamist revolution, gave power to the minority. The wealthy and well connected. True Democrats and revolutionaries were eliminated.

    Now " Islam" provides a cover or Camouflage for these groups. It is easy to be a Muslim in Iran. And work against the people and national interest. Grow a beard. Bruise you forehead with a mark of prayer. Carry worry beads. Bend up and down in public. Easy.

    And the people, because they lack political organisation. And because their vanguard has been eliminated or exiled, and because of deep religious belief or dogma, can not distinguish friend from foe.

    A lot of political theatre, by a lot of bad actors. To maintain minority interests. But they have a clever PR department. Believe me, if these groups in power in Iran, were given breathing space by the Yanks, they will soon drop their revolutionary pretentions. Turn away from revolutionary countries. And embrace uncle Sam.

    The reason, they turn to socialist states, is not because they are socialist. They are anti - socialist and reactionary . They have no choice. These states, themselves sanctioned, are the only ones willing to deal with them. A strange marriage indeed.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:14 pm

    Here's a documentary of the shoot down of the American Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk drone.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:55 pm

    Biden will likely go after Iran since he is an attack dog after all. But here is what will make his huffing and puffing no more than hot air:

    1) Iran is not alone. Russia will not lubricate any "international" attack on Iran at the UN. At the same time it will deploy
    military assets to the Caspian like it did to the Mediterranean during 2013. Obummer folded then regardless of yapping about
    red lines and Bidet will fold now.

    2) Iran is not weak. It has enough advanced missile tech to castrate the precious yanqui "air superiority" without which they
    are total military nothings. There will not be any 1999 style Serbia bombing campaign from aircraft carriers and NATzO quisling
    bases. Simply because Iran can shoot down enough of the invincible F-35s and whatnot to make the attempted gang rape
    too painful for the rapists.

    I believe that there is a lot of pent up imperial aggression in the Demorat party and its elite backers since Trump really did not
    pursue their agenda. Like him or hate him. So they, like Killary, assume that they can do whatever they please and everyone
    will roll over. But a new era is dawning where Uncle Swine-shit is limited in what he gets. The poor dear.

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:35 pm

    kvs wrote:
    2) Iran is not weak.   It has enough advanced missile tech to castrate the precious yanqui "air superiority" without which they
    are total military nothings.  There will not be any 1999 style Serbia bombing campaign from aircraft carriers and NATzO quisling
    bases.   Simply because Iran can shoot down enough of the invincible F-35s and whatnot to make the attempted gang rape
    too painful for the rapists.

    You put your finger on it there Smile

    The US absolutely cannot risk exposing their attack strategies and aircraft as being vulnerable to Russian let alone Iranian AD.

    If they attacked and Iran responded in the way that they have said they would then the US military would be responsible for a rather large drop in US MIC sales and a boost to Russian and Iranian MIC sales. This can't be the plan can it?

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:41 pm


    Wow, who saw this coming? Wink

    Trump Reportedly to ‘Flood’ Iran With Sanctions to Make It Harder For Biden to Revive Nuclear Deal

    https://sputniknews.com/us/202011081081096679-trump-reportedly-to-flood-iran-with-sanctions-to-make-it-harder-for-biden-to-revive-nuclear-deal/

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:18 am

    There are those who say that US can not attack Iran anymore. By military aggression. But they ignore the fact that US just killed Iranian top General. Probably attacked Ukraine plane. Attacked nuclear site. Missile site. Refinery. Boats. Plane to Syria.

    The reason, there is no big war, is not Iran strength . But weakness in response. The biggest attack is economic sanction. Destroying lives of Iranians. The weakness in Iran is political. The lack of political leadership. The lack of democratic and socialist and progressive political parties. The monopoly of power in the hands of traders, Liberals, property owners, corrupt Bazzari mullahs, and anti - democratic elements.

    All these weakness in Iran, the lack of nuclear detterent, defeatist Liberal fatwa, chaotic economy of Bazzari class, lack of political progress and freedom, right wing reactionary religious and corrupt monopoly of power,  an illegitimate parliament and government,  mass shooting of demonstrators on the streets....... Can all be solved by only forming a Democratic Republic.

    A Democratic Republic that protects, Iran national interest. Builds a Nuclear detterent. Gives the ordinary people, the workers and farmers a fair share of power. Diminishes the role of capitalist corrupt Bazzari Hezbollah class, eradicates the influence of traitor Western English American educated Liberal, now in power.

    Iranians, through the effort of the workers and Engineers, built an army. One that is strong. But not capable of detterence. Because of the Liberal influence, seeking an external solution to Iranian political problems. Many opportunistic functionaries are guilty of political murder. They must be removed. The socialists and Democrats must form political parties. Change constitution. Only then Iran is safe.


    Last edited by nomadski on Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:24 am

    The obvious problem with Trump imposing extra sanctions is so what... Biden can undo any of them overnight anyway... I would think Biden is looking forward to undoing a lot of things Trump has done while he was in office... wouldn't it be funny if Biden got 50 billion dollars to build the wall between Mexico and America and called it the Hillary Clinton wall or the Joe Biden Wall or the Obama Wall just to piss Trump off...
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    Post  par far Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:28 pm

    If does not matter which puppet wins, the policies towards Russia, Iran and China will not change.

    The US is fucked, even though Biden won in the fake elections, the "minority" trash that is in Congress or high positions, have plans to out Trump supporters(people that have supported Trump) and out them.

    So America is divided.
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    Post  par far Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:36 pm

    nomadski wrote:There are those who say that US can not attack Iran anymore. By military aggression. But they ignore the fact that US just killed Iranian top General. Probably attacked Ukraine plane. Attacked nuclear site. Missile site. Refinery. Boats. Plane to Syria.

    The reason, there is no big war, is not Iran strength . But weakness in response. The biggest attack is economic sanction. Destroying lives of Iranians. The weakness in Iran is political. The lack of political leadership. The lack of democratic and socialist and progressive political parties. The monopoly of power in the hands of traders, Liberals, property owners, corrupt Bazzari mullahs, and anti - democratic elements.

    All these weakness in Iran, the lack of nuclear detterent, defeatist Liberal fatwa, chaotic economy of Bazzari class, lack of political progress and freedom, right wing reactionary religious and corrupt monopoly of power,  an illegitimate parliament and government,  mass shooting of demonstrators on the streets....... Can all be solved by only forming a Democratic Republic.

    A Democratic Republic that protects, Iran national interest. Builds a Nuclear detterent. Gives the ordinary people, the workers and farmers a fair share of power. Diminishes the role of capitalist corrupt Bazzari Hezbollah class, eradicates the influence of traitor Western English American educated Liberal, now in power.

    Iranians, through the effort of the workers and Engineers, built an army. One that is strong. But not capable of detterence. Because of the Liberal influence, seeking an external solution to Iranian political problems. Many opportunistic functionaries are guilty of political murder. They must be removed. The socialists and Democrats must form political parties. Change constitution. Only then Iran is safe.


    There liberals in the Iran but it is no where near the level in the west. When they killed the Iranian General, Iran responded and they responded in a smart way, they did not kill any US soldiers(they are being killed slowly in attacks) but it sent a message that Iran can hit anywhere in the Middle East.

    Go on YouTube and see how people live in Iran and they have more freedom than people in Saudi Arabia and other Saudi vassals. They probably have as much freedom as people in the "beacon of hope(NOT) west.

    Do you really think an army of gays, lesbians, trans genders, blacks that think they should be given everything, white population that is being embarrassed because of their past(is the US army) can beat Iran, Russia or China?
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:32 pm

    @ parfar

    "......... There liberals in the Iran but it is no where near the level in the west........"

    How do we know, how many liberals are there in power ?  They all wear beards and go to Mecca !


    "...... When they killed the Iranian General, Iran responded and they responded in a smart way........ "

    I heard today the foreign ministry spokesman, say that  all those who accuse Iran of giving advance warning to Americans, before attack , are Zionist  conspirators !  If answer was smart , no further attacks would happen. But they did.  And they covered up these attacks also. They are good  telling lies to the people.

    "........ Go on YouTube and see how people live in Iran......."

    I know how most people live . No thanks to sanctions and  failed political system , brought about by right wing  reaction, the Bazzar class and allied Mullahs.

    "........ have more freedom than people in Saudi Arabia and other Saudi vassals.......... "

    Why compare Iran to Saudi?  Or  Somalia ?  Why not compare to Sweden?   There are no  real political freedoms . The socialists and Democrats have no voice. No vote. They were killed or exiled. Like yours truly.  Only right wing  groups or " parties ", have power.

    ".... Do you really think an army of gays, lesbians, trans genders, blacks that think they should be given everything, white population that is being embarrassed because of their past(is the US army) can beat Iran, Russia or China?..... "

    They don't need to beat Iran. Iranians are making  a good job of it themselves. The majority of solutions are within Iran. By improving the political process. But Iranians are primarily concerned about who is in white House. Biden or Trump. What is price of Dollar. We do not have a national currency.

    No, short of a bloody revolution,  that usually brings about turmoil, Iran needs radical change. A peaceful Democratic revolution. A Democratic Republic. With proportional class representation. Freedom of political ideology. Including socialism and capitalism and Islamism ( social reformism) or liberalism.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:04 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Wow, who saw this coming?  Wink

    Trump Reportedly to ‘Flood’ Iran With Sanctions to Make It Harder For Biden to Revive Nuclear Deal

    https://sputniknews.com/us/202011081081096679-trump-reportedly-to-flood-iran-with-sanctions-to-make-it-harder-for-biden-to-revive-nuclear-deal/


    Bidet and Koala aren't reviving anything. During Hilary's 2016 campaign she explicitly said she planned on pulling out of the nuclear deal, meaning Obama was pulling their dick the whole time and the deal was never meant to last.

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    crod
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    Post  crod Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:The obvious problem with Trump imposing extra sanctions is so what... Biden can undo any of them overnight anyway... I would think Biden is looking forward to undoing a lot of things Trump has done while he was in office... wouldn't it be funny if Biden got 50 billion dollars to build the wall between Mexico and America and called it the Hillary Clinton wall or the Joe Biden Wall or the Obama Wall just to piss Trump off...

    The problem for Iran unfortunately is that Biden won’t undo them.

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