Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

ult wrote:So the total order number so far is 78. It is 2+76, right?

We know nothing for sure still.

Probably not.
As it seems to be 2 (first serials/production ongoing)+ 12-15 (12 training and 3 experimental unit/actual SAP)+76 (72 for three operative regiments+ 4 more for training unit /2028 SAP).

Main culprit for it is that you cannot train three regiments using just 2 first serials+ the 4 designated for the training unit in this late contract.

Saying in the "framework of 2028 contract" is the customary generic expression always used in such cases.
It would be used also for an order of a pair of planes for specialistic use.

So a.t.m. we do not know how many of them would be produced on a yearly basis.
It will be a three, five, seven year contract?

Isos wrote:
~38 million $ for su-57.

My calculations give an upper bound of $35.5 million for a Su-57

Bargain.

flamming_python wrote:

Isos wrote:
~38 million $ for su-57.

My calculations give an upper bound of $35.5 million for a Su-57

Bargain.

Damn the yellow journalists at the Drive are about to fall in to a coma!

flamming_python wrote:

Isos wrote:
~38 million $ for su-57.

My calculations give an upper bound of $35.5 million for a Su-57

Bargain.

Shows in part just how undervalued the Russian currency is versus the US$

JohninMK wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Isos wrote:
~38 million $ for su-57.

My calculations give an upper bound of $35.5 million for a Su-57

Bargain.

Shows in part just how undervalued the Russian currency is versus the US$

Correct

Realistically Su-57 price is easily close to Raptor pricetag but once you go through all the market, financial and economic factors you get what seems like small price in dollars

VKS probably told Sukhoi to stop trying to give them export numbers so number went down "out of nowhere"

PapaDragon wrote:

Realistically Su-57 price is easily close to Raptor pricetag but once you go through all the market, financial and economic factors you get what seems like small price in dollars

But of course the important thing is that oil, gas and other raw materials, are still sold in dollars

PapaDragon wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Isos wrote:
~38 million $ for su-57.

My calculations give an upper bound of $35.5 million for a Su-57

Bargain.

Shows in part just how undervalued the Russian currency is versus the US$

Correct

Realistically Su-57 price is easily close to Raptor pricetag but once you go through all the market, financial and economic factors you get what seems like small price in dollars

VKS probably told Sukhoi to stop trying to give them export numbers so number went down "out of nowhere"

The real test will be the cost of maintenance. The F-22 requires 40 hours of maintenance for 1 hour of flight, if the Su-57 isn't a hangar queen it'll be cheaper regardless of currency devaluing. We know the Raptors base cost, but we really don't whats it's costing in maintenance, similarly the B-2 spirit requires specialized air conditioned hangars, and the F-35 will probably need it's own masseuse and it's diaper changed every once in a while.

magnumcromagnon wrote:
The real test will be the cost of maintenance. The F-22 requires  40 hours of maintenance for 1 hour of flight, if the Su-57 isn't a hangar queen it'll be cheaper regardless of currency devaluing. We know the Raptors base cost, but we really don't whats it's costing in maintenance, similarly the B-2 spirit requires specialized air conditioned hangars, and the F-35 will probably need it's own masseuse and it's diaper changed every once in a while.

You say that in jest but it cost the RAF over £150 million just to upgrade RAF Marham to cope with the F-35B.

JohninMK wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
The real test will be the cost of maintenance. The F-22 requires  40 hours of maintenance for 1 hour of flight, if the Su-57 isn't a hangar queen it'll be cheaper regardless of currency devaluing. We know the Raptors base cost, but we really don't whats it's costing in maintenance, similarly the B-2 spirit requires specialized air conditioned hangars, and the F-35 will probably need it's own masseuse and it's diaper changed every once in a while.

You say that in jest but it cost the RAF over £150 million just to upgrade RAF Marham to cope with the F-35B.

£250 million

A £250m investment is being made in buildings, runways and other infrastructure on the Norfolk air base as it prepares for the arrival of the most advanced warplane ever built for UK armed forces.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/operation-anvil-brings-1-200-jobs-to-norfolk-as-raf-marham-upgrade-takes-off-1-5105047

marcellogo wrote:
We know nothing for sure still.

Probably not.
As it seems to be 2 (first serials/production ongoing)+ 12-15 (12 training and 3 experimental unit/actual SAP)+76 (72 for three operative regiments+ 4 more for training unit /2028 SAP).

Main culprit for it is that you cannot train three regiments using just 2 first serials+ the 4 designated for the training unit in this late contract.

Saying in the "framework of 2028 contract" is the customary generic expression always used in such cases.
It would be used also for an order of a pair of planes for specialistic use.

So a.t.m. we do not know how many of them would be produced on a yearly basis.
It will be a three, five, seven year contract?

There was no news about signing a contract for 12-15 airframes. It was all rumors and those plans were later increased to 76.

ult wrote:

marcellogo wrote:
We know nothing for sure still.

Probably not.
As it seems to be 2 (first serials/production ongoing)+ 12-15 (12 training and 3 experimental unit/actual SAP)+76 (72 for three operative regiments+ 4 more for training unit /2028 SAP).

Main culprit for it is that you cannot train three regiments using just 2 first serials+ the 4 designated for the training unit in this late contract.

Saying in the "framework of 2028 contract" is the customary generic expression always used in such cases.
It would be used also for an order of a pair of planes for specialistic use.

So a.t.m. we do not know how many of them would be produced on a yearly basis.
It will be a three, five, seven year contract?

There was no news about signing a contract for 12-15 airframes. It was all rumors and those plans were later increased to 76.

Yeah the 12-15 airframe claim was the work of yellow journalists at the Drive and the National Interest. They made the same claim about the Armata series, which now has an order of 100+ vehicles.

magnumcromagnon wrote:Damn the yellow journalists at the Drive are about to fall in to a coma!

meh since ti is 2,5 times less then F-35 they will write Su-57 is 3times less worth then invisible F-35. Invisible because nobody has ever seen ti flying correctly



I dont think this 76 fighter order is end but rather the beginning.

Deputy commander VKS: the modernization potential of the Su-57 will last for forty years

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/20196261311-6WJaP.html

The fifth-generation fighter Su-57 has a large modernization potential, it will become a platform for the aircraft of the future, said Deputy Commander of the Aerospace Force Andrei Yudin.

But of course the important thing is that oil, gas and other raw materials, are still sold in dollars

Well, calculated in US dollars but paid in euros or rubles or anything but US dollars...

The F-22 requires 40 hours of maintenance for 1 hour of flight

Juhezus

So Russia can inflict significant budget/maintenance pain just by making frequent passes near US F-22 bases with old, cheap-to-run planes forcing US to waste expensive F-22 hours doing intercept/escort

hoom wrote:

The F-22 requires 40 hours of maintenance for 1 hour of flight

Juhezus

So Russia can inflict significant budget/maintenance pain just by making frequent passes near US F-22 bases with old, cheap-to-run planes forcing US to waste expensive F-22 hours doing intercept/escort

Standing bases of F-22 are all in US territory, although usually they are put in peripherical positions (Alaska, Haway, Florida).
Send some money to Cuba and Venezuela AF for doing the trick would be the better option.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

ult wrote:

marcellogo wrote:
We know nothing for sure still.

Probably not.
As it seems to be 2 (first serials/production ongoing)+ 12-15 (12 training and 3 experimental unit/actual SAP)+76 (72 for three operative regiments+ 4 more for training unit /2028 SAP).

Main culprit for it is that you cannot train three regiments using just 2 first serials+ the 4 designated for the training unit in this late contract.

Saying in the "framework of 2028 contract" is the customary generic expression always used in such cases.
It would be used also for an order of a pair of planes for specialistic use.

So a.t.m. we do not know how many of them would be produced on a yearly basis.
It will be a three, five, seven year contract?

There was no news about signing a contract for 12-15 airframes. It was all rumors and those plans were later increased to 76.

Yeah the 12-15 airframe claim was the work of yellow journalists at the Drive and the National Interest. They made the same claim about the Armata series, which now has an order of 100+ vehicles.

Still the count just doesn't pile up.

The plan is to fully equip three operative regiments i.e. (12x2)x3=72 planes.

That would left just 4 planes +2 first serial ones to equip a training and an experimental unit, absolutely too few, given also that Su-57 doesn't got a two seat version and is not a Flanker, so using Su-30 wouldn't help so much.

hoom wrote:

The F-22 requires 40 hours of maintenance for 1 hour of flight

Juhezus

So Russia can inflict significant budget/maintenance pain just by making frequent passes near US F-22 bases with old, cheap-to-run planes forcing US to waste expensive F-22 hours doing intercept/escort

They should release some kerosene in front of the f-22. That destroys their multi million dollar paint.

Maybe one or more of the operative units are for training and development of tactics... keeping in mind these are fully multirole aircraft able to carry out a range of roles like fighter, interceptor, light strike, recon, SEAD, etc etc... they might need more crews working on tactics and testing the envelope.

BTW the hours for operational flight is a problem for both the F-22 and the F-35 because their external surface is covered in a light coating of RAM so when you need to access a panel you get an angle grinder and locate the panel you need to open and find where the tape is around the edges of the panel and the places where the screws are located... expose the tape and peel off exposing the panel screws and the panel lines and then unscrew the screws and remove the panels and make the checks or changes or repairs/replacements. Then you screw the panel back on and tape over the joins and the screw heads and then you spray RAM over it all to stop the supersonic air flow blowing away the tape and exposing the screw heads and joins. You then have to wait for the RAM to cure and harden before you can fly the aircraft and that is what takes so long... it clearly takes days to cure...

I was watching this documentry in english from 2017 about sukhoi and noticed something very interesting.




They are analyzing what seems to be a rafale.



And then they show an image of what seems to be the airflow around the su-57 at cruising regime.

https://tass.com/defense/1067657

Russia offers to India to resume its participation on joint su-57 project.

Isos wrote:https://tass.com/defense/1067657

Russia offers to India to resume its participation on joint su-57 project.

I have a suggestion: India can buy them are the full market price and each hull will be emblazoned with words: "GET BENT!!!"

PapaDragon wrote:

Isos wrote:https://tass.com/defense/1067657

Russia offers to India to resume its participation on joint su-57 project.

I have a suggestion: India can buy them are the full market price and each hull will be emblazoned with words: "GET BENT!!!"

Agreed.

India has been one of the shittiest customers and self gratifying too

Even at full market price they will be a fraction of what western countries are paying for their F-35s... I think it would be better for Russia to let India buy some F-35s first, and after a few years see what they think because we know India likes to haggle and no pay full price for things... it is a cultural thing... in a market trade situation there is no such thing as reccommended retail price... so asking price is just the start of negotiations...

Su-57 fighters will be able to be based on a new aircraft carrier

Fifth generation Su-57 fighters will be able to be based on a new non-nuclear multi-purpose aircraft carrier, the concept of which was developed at the Krylov Center . This was stated by the head of the center Pavel Filippov.

According to Filippov, the basing of the Su-57 on this aircraft carrier is possible under the condition of the adaptation of the aircraft to the ship.

“Theoretically, it is possible to take some of these planes on board, provided they are“ retained ”, he told RIA Novosti in an interview.

Filippov said that he means, in particular, lightening the weight of fighters and changing some elements of the Su-57 design.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/2019710946-68SNv.html

dino00 wrote:Su-57 fighters will be able to be based on a new aircraft carrier

Fifth generation Su-57 fighters will be able to be based on a new non-nuclear multi-purpose aircraft carrier, the concept of which was developed at the Krylov Center . This was stated by the head of the center Pavel Filippov.

According to Filippov, the basing of the Su-57 on this aircraft carrier is possible under the condition of the adaptation of the aircraft to the ship.

“Theoretically, it is possible to take some of these planes on board, provided they are“ retained ”, he told RIA Novosti in an interview.

Filippov said that he means, in particular, lightening the weight of fighters and changing some elements of the Su-57 design.

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/2019710946-68SNv.html

At the same time, he noted that so far this aircraft is not considered as a deck aircraft of the Russian Navy.