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    Russia's National Defense Strategy issues

    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible


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    Post  miketheterrible Mon May 31, 2021 2:25 pm

    I'm not sure what I just read. And there really isn't a conclusion either.

    It seems to paint that Russia is split between westerners and Easterners but that seems to be very wrong.  Simply because as evidence shows from elections and popularity ratings, Russia has become centrist to its own needs and goals. Yes, loud minorities exist (bloggers and journalists whom are foreign funded) but no one takes them seriously.  Their bs is easily debated and destroyed.

    But what exactly is he saying here?  Because Russia going the route of self determination and not allying with anyone besides itself and the people who wish to, is the best method.  They don't have any alliance with China but China knows they need Russia and somewhat vise versa.

    Russia has nukes and that is the ultimate guarantee.  No amount of large modern force right at the borders would stop Chinese or US invasion. Instead, having troops more centralized is giving Russia an option to move troops fast to where they must go.  Putin made mention of a need to expand the air fleet significantly for this reason.

    I think some of these "experts" rely on playing video games to get their knowledge on military.

    I cant see any evidence Russia leaned on anyone ever.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon May 31, 2021 2:59 pm

    Washington is unhappy that China and Russia are getting closer and not in a small way. China even openly broadcasts that the combination
    of Russia and China is more powerful than the USSR and the Warsaw Pact. This must make the NATzO deciders stain their undies. So
    they are deploying all their "soft power" assets to try to disrupt this dawning reality. This includes spreading FUD about China's relations
    with Russia inside Russia itself. Riling up useful idiots is a key element of the effort to derail the Russia-China de fact alliance.



    Long but worth watching.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Mon May 31, 2021 3:05 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I'm not sure what I just read. And there really isn't a conclusion either.

    It seems to paint that Russia is split between westerners and Easterners but that seems to be very wrong.  Simply because as evidence shows from elections and popularity ratings, Russia has become centrist to its own needs and goals. Yes, loud minorities exist (bloggers and journalists whom are foreign funded) but no one takes them seriously.  Their bs is easily debated and destroyed.

    But what exactly is he saying here?  Because Russia going the route of self determination and not allying with anyone besides itself and the people who wish to, is the best method.  They don't have any alliance with China but China knows they need Russia and somewhat vise versa.

    Russia has nukes and that is the ultimate guarantee.  No amount of large modern force right at the borders would stop Chinese or US invasion. Instead, having troops more centralized is giving Russia an option to move troops fast to where they must go.  Putin made mention of a need to expand the air fleet significantly for this reason.

    I think some of these "experts" rely on playing video games to get their knowledge on military.

    I cant see any evidence Russia leaned on anyone ever.

    My take is that the writer is cautioning against getting too close to either side and is against those who want to be part of the West and warning against becoming too dependent upon China... Russia needs to be it's own entity.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon May 31, 2021 3:10 pm

    The article that Franco posted seems to be more centrist Idea as I stated. He wants Russia to greatly expand its military not just west but east to counter both.

    But what a lot of these people fail to realize is a few things:
    - Russia isn't west or east leaning contrary to what they say. Neither do they provide proof of their statements, there are no statistics to back them up.
    - Russia's main enemy now is the west. All disputes are with them and any Russia and Chinese disputes have been resolved. So placing more troops west than east is most ideal because of that. You can't just magically have millions of troops ready at the whim.
    - Where will the money come from?

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon May 31, 2021 3:12 pm

    franco wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:I'm not sure what I just read. And there really isn't a conclusion either.

    It seems to paint that Russia is split between westerners and Easterners but that seems to be very wrong.  Simply because as evidence shows from elections and popularity ratings, Russia has become centrist to its own needs and goals. Yes, loud minorities exist (bloggers and journalists whom are foreign funded) but no one takes them seriously.  Their bs is easily debated and destroyed.

    But what exactly is he saying here?  Because Russia going the route of self determination and not allying with anyone besides itself and the people who wish to, is the best method.  They don't have any alliance with China but China knows they need Russia and somewhat vise versa.

    Russia has nukes and that is the ultimate guarantee.  No amount of large modern force right at the borders would stop Chinese or US invasion. Instead, having troops more centralized is giving Russia an option to move troops fast to where they must go.  Putin made mention of a need to expand the air fleet significantly for this reason.

    I think some of these "experts" rely on playing video games to get their knowledge on military.

    I cant see any evidence Russia leaned on anyone ever.

    My take is that the writer is cautioning against getting too close to either side and is against those who want to be part of the West and warning against becoming too dependent upon China... Russia needs to be it's own entity.

    Yes, but Russia is already like this. There is no evidence to stage otherwise. Russia has military exercises with China but they have with everyone.

    What exactly is his evidence of anything he said anyway? I read the article twice and found nothing.
    franco
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    Post  franco Mon May 31, 2021 3:27 pm

    The China opinion is obviously a fear of his and maybe he believes that too many Russians are leaning towards China in rejection of the West... maybe he is getting this sense internally in Russia for which we are not exposed to or maybe he is just a Chinaphobe dunno

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon May 31, 2021 8:15 pm

    franco wrote:The China opinion is obviously a fear of his and maybe he believes that too many Russians are leaning towards China in rejection of the West... maybe he is getting this sense internally in Russia for which we are not exposed to or maybe he is just a Chinaphobe dunno  

    I think it all has to do with the words of the Russian government.  For a bit now they been talking a lot about close relations with China and even helping China with their IADS which China lacked in.  But at the same time, I think some people are overblowing it and not realizing that, while yes, Russia is hedging its bet on China - that it is simply looking for close relations and new developments.  I mean, Russia could say screw them all and just rely on itself 100% but that is a long and expensive process that may cause internal problems.  Instead, it can keep channels open and still make good money in trade and relations.  But it isn't like Russia is integrating itself in any means to China.  Actually, on the contrary, I see that Russia is insistent there is no alliance with China.

    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon May 31, 2021 10:20 pm

    I think the author is right. The west is power hungry and mad. The Chinese don't event attempt to hide their thirst for hegemony either and I don't understand the admiration for Xi's China. It's weird I have seen this admiration for China manifest differently among neocon/neolib types and the "America is the great devil" types.

    The author is awesome. Glad I read it.
    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Mon May 31, 2021 10:24 pm

    kvs wrote:Washington is unhappy that China and Russia are getting closer and not in a small way.    China even openly broadcasts that the combination
    of Russia and China is more powerful than the USSR and the Warsaw Pact.    This must make the NATzO deciders stain their undies.    So
    they are deploying all their "soft power" assets to try to disrupt this dawning reality.   This includes spreading FUD about China's relations
    with Russia inside Russia itself.   Riling up useful idiots is a key element of the effort to derail the Russia-China de fact alliance.    



    Long but worth watching.  


    Frankly China seems to nakedly use Russia as a tool. They don't even much pretend to be allies. The way China has acted concerning Russia and the former Warsaw Pact states. The way they have acted with Syria. The author is right. There is just something so unseemly in how flagrant Xi's China is in it's grasps for power. The Chinese make it quite clear in dealing with them that you are always being used somehow.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon May 31, 2021 11:46 pm

    If China is using Russia as a tool, then the west is attempting to ass rape Russia and already raped it in the 1990s from which it is still recovering.
    The Russian leadership is rather competent and its engagement with China is rational and in Russia's interests. Meanwhile all that Russia
    gets from the precious west is hate spew consisting of demands for regime change and revision of history to blame the crimes of Hitler
    on Russians. Russia does not need any sort of engagement or detente with the west.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:13 am

    Putting more troops on the border with China is completely unnecessary because unlike HATO and the west China is not a threat or danger to Russia at all.

    This person is rather smarter than the average 5th columnist and realises pushing better relations with the west and rejecting China and the rest of the world is not going to happen, so they just talk up the threat of China not just to Russia but to the whole world, which is like the threat to the whole world from Russia... it is made up.

    World control is a western goal... no one else is even applying for the job.

    Russia is cooperating with China just like it would be cooperating with the EU and the US if they weren't so rabidly Russophobic.

    Russia is not integrating itself into China or becoming Chinas bitch... they are just cooperating where it is mutually useful and selling things and buying things... just normal commerce.

    Russia has invested in and developed some very capable new weapons and other technology and China will likely want to buy some... the west certainly wont.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:30 am

    If China wanted to attack Russia they would be investing way more in the ground forces.
    Instead they are putting nearly all their money on the air force and navy.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:41 pm

    lancelot wrote:If China wanted to attack Russia they would be investing way more in the ground forces.
    Instead they are putting nearly all their money on the air force and navy.

    Way more on navy than air-force and Russia is gladly helping them with both because in any war with Russia navy would be completely useless

    To say nothing of how much money navy is sucking up simply by existing, just look at proportion of defence budget that USA spends on Navy, it's no different for China and with more aircraft carries around the corner it will be even more money

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:18 am

    If you want to remain or become a global power then you need a decent navy... which is hilarious because the once great global power of Britain is disappearing despite them having two fixed wing aircraft carriers... because they are pissing money away on billions of pounds more Trident missiles that do nothing for their day to day security, or income or world wide presence, so there is no money for ships to support their carriers... making their carriers useless.

    A carrier on its own is vulnerable... like any ship on its own.

    What they should have done was develop a cruiser based on a shortened carrier hull and instead of building two carriers, they should have built four carrier hull bases and made one a carrier and the other three shortened Cruiser hulls.

    In many situations a cruiser might just be enough to get a job done with a few smaller ships in support, but for more difficult jobs two cruisers and a carrier plus other smaller ships is a powerful naval grouping that would be potent and capable of taking on 80% of the non HATO and not Russia or China navies or land based air forces on the planet.

    Of course the Royal Navys biggest problem is that they don't really have SAMs and land attack cruise missiles and anti ship and anti sub weapons of their own to properly arm such ships anyway.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:45 pm

    Russia to host SCO anti-terror drills in September

    The SCO maneuvers were scheduled to take place in Russia in 2020 but were postponed to 2021 over the coronavirus pandemic

    YEKATERINBURG, June 1. /TASS/. The Peace Mission 2021 anti-terror command and staff drills of member states of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) will run on the territory of Russia’s Central Military District in September, Central Military District Commander Colonel General Aleksandr Lapin said on Tuesday.

    "In the summer training period, we will hold nine joint international drills on the territory of Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. The Peace Mission 2021 anti-terror exercise that will take place in September will be the main event of the troop’s joint training," the commander said.

    The SCO maneuvers were scheduled to take place in Russia in 2020 but were postponed to 2021 over the coronavirus pandemic.

    "Overall, more than 100 tactical-level exercises will take place in the troops of the Central Military District in the course of the summer training period or 20% more compared to the same period of 2020," the general added.

    The SCO member states have been holding regular anti-terror bilateral and multilateral drills since 2002 as part of cooperation in the security sphere. Peace Mission drills are the largest and are held every two years.

    https://tass.com/defense/1296507
    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:45 pm

    Preparations in full swing for Russia-Belarus strategic drills, says defense chief

    The Zapad-2021 maneuvers are a scheduled exercise and will be held by decision of the presidents of Russia and Belarus and are solely of defensive nature, Sergey Shoigu stressed

    MOSCOW, May 31. /TASS/. The preparations for the Zapad-2021 (West-2021) joint Russia-Belarus strategic military exercise scheduled for September have entered the active phase, Russian Defense Minister Army General Sergey Shoigu said at the ministry’s board meeting on Monday.

    "The preparations for the Russian-Belarusian joint strategic exercise Zapad-2021 that will run at practice ranges of Belarus and the Western Military District have entered the active phase. A series of command and staff drills involving the staffs of various levels have already been held," the defense chief said.

    Beginning from June, the Defense Ministries of Russia and Belarus will start "accomplishing a set of tasks as part of the joint drills of special operations forces," Shoigu said.

    The Zapad-2021 maneuvers are a scheduled exercise and will be held by decision of the presidents of Russia and Belarus and are solely of defensive nature, the Russian defense minister stressed.

    "Our partners will be informed within the time limits stipulated in international treaties about the parameters of the exercise while international observers and journalists will be able to attend it," Shoigu said.

    https://tass.com/defense/1296093
    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:50 pm

    Putin signs law on ratifying military cooperation deal with Kazakhstan

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:54 pm

    Military servicemen from seven countries arrive in Russia for Zapad-2021 drills

    The Russian Aerospace Forces’ military cargo planes delivered about 500 troops from Armenia, India, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Pakistan and Sri Lanka to a training camp in the Western Military District

    https://tass.com/defense/1334645

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:22 pm

    More on ZAPAD

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    10h
    Zapad has begun at the Kirilovsky, Strugi Krasnye, Mulino, Pogonovo, Khmelevka, Pravdinsky, Dobrovolsky, Dorogobuzh, and Volsky ranges in Russia; in the Baltic Sea; and Obuz-Lesnovsky, Brestsky, Chepelevo, Domanovsky, and Ruzhansky ranges in Belarus.


    Russia's National Defense Strategy issues - Page 16 E-6B97yWUAEScn1?format=jpg&name=medium

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    · 10h
    Russian officials have said that ~200k servicemen will take part in Zapad but only 12,800 in Belarus (including 2.5k Russian servicemen). They claim that <6,400 troops will take part in Russia under a single operational command subject to the OSCE 2011 Vienna Document.


    Russia's National Defense Strategy issues - Page 16 E-6Fad2WQAIogYH?format=jpg&name=medium


    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    10h
    For the 1st time, Russia will air drop a full BMD-4M battalion from the VDV’s 137th Airborne Regiment with >30 BMD-4M and 300 paratroopers from 15 Il-76 aircraft at the Zhitovo LZ. They are being loaded at the Dyagilevo airfield.33/


    Russia's National Defense Strategy issues - Page 16 E-6RnL8XsAsmtyp?format=jpg&name=360x360

    Video at link https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1436242292109717508

    Konrad Muzyka - Rochan Consulting
    @konrad_muzyka
    ·
    10h
    Yesterday situational maps of the defensive phase of Zapad was released by the Belarusian press. In his guest post, @Obronny2
    was kind enough to analyse them on the blog. https://rochan-consulting.com/zapad-2021-str

    Russia's National Defense Strategy issues - Page 16 E-6WbnSXEAEU0DP?format=jpg&name=small

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    zepia
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    Russia's National Defense Strategy issues - Page 16 Empty This video gave a good overview about the ZAPAD-2021 exercise.

    Post  zepia Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:02 am

    This video gave a good overview about the ZAPAD-2021 exercise.

    Just ignore that heavily clickbait title, and expect a mild anti-russian tone since the "analysis" in this video came from a Polish company (Rochan Consulting).





    Am I posting in the right thread. Is Belarus really a foreign country to Russia. Laughing
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:51 am

    The far eastern district is more focused on South Korea and Japan and other US controlled puppet states than against China, with which Russia has fairly good and stable relations.

    Amusing that they conclude that the chances of this exercise turning into an actual war are low... the level of brilliance is amazing...

    They did manage to show the video footage of the T-14 being stalled during a parade... that has nothing to do with this exercise... is it an accident that that video is the screen shot for the video?

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:55 am

    Russia just finished up a pipeline for Germany. The f*ck are they going to war when that thing's not even paid off yet.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:58 am

    I will be surprised if they don't show the stalled T-14 on Red Square in any footage!
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    Post  ALAMO Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:12 am

    You guys should have witnessed the scale of absurd build around that here in Eastern Europe.
    An audience is treated daily basis for a week now with following :
    There is a possibility, that Russian/Belarusian forces will try to infiltrate the borders of Baltic states and/or Poland/Ukraine, for several kilometers only.
    The maneuvers can be used as a starting platform for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
    There can be "little green men" infiltrating the borders, with unknown targets.
    All all the crap with the same narration, daily basis, 24/7.
    The level of idiocy is mind-blowing.


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    Post  Broski Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:24 pm

    ALAMO wrote:You guys should have witnessed the scale of absurd build around that here in Eastern Europe.
    An audience is treated daily basis for a week now with following :
    There is a possibility, that Russian/Belarusian forces will try to infiltrate the borders of Baltic states and/or Poland/Ukraine, for several kilometers only.
    The maneuvers can be used as a starting platform for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
    There can be "little green men" infiltrating the borders, with unknown targets.
    All all the crap with the same narration, daily basis, 24/7.
    The level of idiocy is mind-blowing.


    They know their target audience is mostly naive and heavily indoctrinated, just like US mainstream media.

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