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    Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Backman
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    Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter - Page 9 Empty Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  Backman Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:04 pm

    A National Interest writer kicked the hornets nest. Very Happy What is the truth ? Nobody knows because China never releases official information on any of this stuff

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/china%E2%80%99s-j-20-stealth-fighter-getting-major-boost-thanks-russia-181006

    China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter is Getting a Major Boost - Thanks to Russia

    In yet another example of Sino-Russian military cooperation, Chinese J-20s will be carried aloft on the backs of Russian engines.

    Here's What You Need to Remember: Ultimately the newest variant of the Chinese-built J-20, the J-20B, is intended to be equipped with powerful Chinese-designed WS-15 engines that would offer increased performance, likely better fuel efficiency, and a higher-altitude flight envelope. But because the production of the newer engine is lagging behind schedule, China has opted for a foreign design made in Russia.

    One of the J-20’s more prominent features are canards, small wing-like control surfaces near the cockpit. Although canards are not necessarily incompatible with stealthy designs, they present radar operators with another surface that can reflect radar away from an airframe and amplify an aircraft’s radar signature. But the potential problems don’t end there—engines are another area that hinders the J-20.

    RupprechtDeino's reaction

    https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1377217186788413449

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    bren_tann
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    Post  bren_tann Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:53 am

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    walle83

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    Post  walle83 Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:16 pm

    Back and forward about the WS-15.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3130340/chinas-j-20-mighty-dragon-fighters-set-get-purpose-built

    The fifth-generation jets were designed to compete with US F-22s but have been using stopgap engines that limited their speed and combat capabilities
    China has spent two decades trying to master the technology behind the WS-15 engine, which a military source says is now almost ready to enter service

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    Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter - Page 9 Empty China’s J-20 ‘Mighty Dragon’ fighters set to get purpose-built engines ‘within next two years’

    Post  Finty Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:09 pm

    Saw this the other day, another article about thrust vectoring...


    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1221492.shtml

    GlobalTimes wrote:The pilot who first flew the J-20 believes that China's most advanced stealth fighter jet will be upgraded with 2D thrust vectoring nozzles for its engines, according to a recent news report.

    This means the warplane will receive enhanced maneuverability and stealth capability and surpass its US counterpart, the F-22, a Chinese military expert said on Monday.

    The J-20 is expected to be equipped with engines with 2D thrust vectoring nozzles, said Li Gang, the pilot of the J-20's first flight, when asked about his expectations on the future development of the J-20's thrust vector control capability in a recent interview with Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV aired on Monday.

    J-20s in service with the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force currently all use circular nozzles with no thrust vector control capability, analysts said.

    Thrust vector control will provide extra maneuverability and 2D nozzles can enhance stealth capabilities of the J-20, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese military aviation expert, told the Global Times on Monday.

    With the flight performance of the J-10B thrust vector control demonstrator at the Airshow China 2018 in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, China displayed its capability to develop and apply 3D thrust vectoring technology on fighter jets.

    Explaining the differences between 2D and 3D thrust vectoring, Fu said that 2D nozzles are rectangular and 3D nozzles are circular, meaning that 2D nozzles have better radar and infrared stealth capabilities than the 3D nozzles.

    The F-22 stealth fighter jet of the US Air Force uses 2D thrust vectoring, analysts noted.

    3D nozzles are often believed to be capable of providing more thrust angles than 2D nozzles, as F-22's 2D nozzles can only move vertically, but this is a common misunderstanding, Fu said, noting that 2D nozzles can also move horizontally to provide horizontal thrust when so designed, but this design could add development costs.

    In the Phoenix TV report, Li also said that he expects the J-20's thrust vectoring nozzles to move only vertically like the F-22, but Fu said that he hopes the J-20's future nozzles will be able to move horizontally, which will make the PLA fighter jet surpass its US counterpart in this aspect.

    It has been long expected that the J-20 will eventually receive thrust vectoring-capable engines.

    When asked about when the J-20 can get thrust vectoring-capable engines at a press conference of Airshow China 2018, shortly after the J-10B thrust vector control demonstrator made its flight performance, Yang Wei, chief designer of the J-20, replied, "You asked about when, but how do you know it hasn't?" This statement is widely interpreted by military observers that the J-20's developers have been testing thrust vector control on the aircraft for a long time.

    2021 marks the 10th year of the J-20's maiden flight, and the stealth fighter jet is seeing many new developments, including domestically made engines, removal of Luneburg lens in exercises, and possible development of a twin-seat variation, according to media reports.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:52 pm

    We should be seeing pics of these 2D nozzles if they are gonna come out anytime soon on a production variant. 2D is better for stealth but there's a 15% power penalty
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    Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter - Page 9 Empty Why two heads would be better than one for China’s ‘Mighty Dragon’ fighter jet

    Post  Finty Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:58 pm

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3131295/why-two-heads-would-be-better-one-chinas-mighty-dragon

    South China Post wrote: A twin-seater version of China’s most advanced fighter jet the J-20 would be able to target enemy electronic equipment and operate in tandem with swarms of drones, according to a defence industry magazine.

    The article, published by Chinese military magazine Ordnance Industry Science Technology, said the fifth-generation fighter would be expected to carry out more tasks as the technology evolved, and a second crew member would be needed to carry out some of those functions.

    “The emergence of a twin-seat version of the J-20 is because the J-20’s mission has diversified and China needs a more capable fighter jet,” the article said.

    The article predicted that the J-20’s twin-seat version would be equipped with more advanced electronic equipment than is found in other Chinese twin-seaters.
    “It’s a piece of cake for the J-20 to perform [electronic interference] duties because of its strong power supply capacity, fire-control radar and integrated avionics system,” the article said.

    “We can imagine that the front pilot will be in charge of flying the aircraft, while the pilot sitting behind is in charge of controlling the electronic inference platform, making the J-20 a nightmare for enemy electronic equipment.”
    The second crew member could also control a supporting fleet of pilotless aircraft. “The drones could be bait to attract enemy aircraft or draw in stealth aircraft … they can also gather intelligence, carry out attacks against air defence systems and gain air superiority,” the article said.

    The article said Chinese engineers had gained experience from making a twin-seat version of the J-10, so it should be technologically feasible to make a twin-seat J-20.
    The J-20, also known as the Mighty Dragon, is an all-weather stealth fighter with precision strike capabilities that entered service in 2017 but has been dogged by engine problems.

    China has never officially disclosed the exact number of J-20s, but according to another article in the same issue of Ordnance Industry Science Technology, around 90 have been made so far. It added that around 400 or 500 would be needed to fulfil the country’s military needs.
    Last week military insiders said purpose-built engines for the fighters, which were initially fitted with Russian-made engines, were expected to be ready within the next two years.

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    Post  George1 Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:03 am

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    Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter - Page 9 Empty New Unit of China’s Elite J-20A Stealth Fighters Deployed to Guard Taiwan Strait and North Korea

    Post  Finty Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:46 am

    https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/j20a-stealth-fighters-guard-taiwan-korea

    New Unit of China’s Elite J-20A Stealth Fighters Deployed to Guard Taiwan Strait and North Korea

    The China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force has reportedly deployed a new unit of J-20 heavyweight stealth fighters under its Northern Theatre Command with the intention of guarding the Taiwan Strait, according to local media reports. The deployment of China's most capable fighters coincided with celebrations for the 100th anniversary of the founding of China’s ruling party. Although the Eastern Theatre Command is usually tasked with security issues pertaining to Taiwan and Japan, the range of the J-20 will reportedly also allow it to contribute to military operations in the Taiwan Strait from bases in Liaoning province. Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie reported to this effect: “The J-20’s new deployment, announced ahead of the Communist Party’s 100th anniversary on July 1, is aimed at telling South Korea and Japan that China is strengthening its air defence along the coastal areas, warning them not to join Washington and intervene in the Taiwan issue.” He explained the rationale for deploying the fighters relatively far from Taiwan as follows: “None of the J-20s will be deployed near the coasts, because of their 2,000km-plus combat range, which is more than enough to cover the mainland coastal provinces and Taiwan.”

    Liaoning notably also borders North Korea, meaning the fighters could be ideally placed to provide air cover to China’s treaty ally in the event of a clash on the Korean Peninsula. J-20s were previously reported to have flown into South Korean airspace as a show of force during a time of high tensions with the north in 2017 as a show of force. The purpose of the new J-20 deployment can only be speculated, but it is clear that the fighter is being deployed in fast growing numbers with production expected to expand as the design is further improved. The latest variant of the jet, the J-20A, uses a new WS-10C engine, while the upcoming J-20B which entered production in 2020 will use engines with thrust vectoring capabilities for improved manoeuvrability. The J-20 is the only fifth generation fighter developed outside the United States which is in service at squadron level strength, and is prized for its stealth capabilities, its advanced AESA radar guided air to air missiles, its long range and its very modern avionics and sensors.

    Both Korea and Taiwan are major hotspots, and represent the only theatres over which the PLA Air Force has ever fought - using MiG-15 and later MiG-17 jets in the 1950s to engage U.S., European, Australian and Taiwanese air units. Both hotspots remain sensitive for Chinese interests, the former because North Korea is a treaty ally with a relatively weak air force, and the latter because Taiwan continues to be recognised by the UN and all UN member states as part of China, but has taken steps towards formally declaring its separation which would likely spark a major war if seen through.



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    Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter - Page 9 Empty Why China's Lethal J-20 Stealth Fighter Will Have a Greater Impact Over the Pacific than America's F-22 Raptor - Part Two

    Post  Finty Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:54 am

    ... And pt.2 of an article from 2018

    https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/why-china-s-lethal-j-20-stealth-fighter-will-have-a-greater-impact-over-the-pacific-than-america-s-f-22-raptor-part-two

    Why China's Lethal J-20 Stealth Fighter Will Have a Greater Impact Over the Pacific than America's F-22 Raptor - Part Two


    The second major constraint on the F-22's ability to influence the balance of power in the Pacific relative to the J-20 is the Raptor's limited room for improvement compared to its Chinese counterpart - or even its lighter counterpart the F-35. The F-22 entered service using specialised but somewhat obtuse software, computer architecture dating back to the early 1990s and a poor core processor speed of just 25MHz. The fighter is as a result extremely difficult to upgrade - with even basic adjustments such as equipping it with more modern munitions including AIM-120D and AIM-9X air to air missiles taking several years to implement. Use of these dated systems were a result of the length of fighter’s development program, which took 24 years in total and well over a decade just to go from design to production. The fighter's avionics were considered dated long before it entered operational service in December 2005. While the U.S. operates a number of dated fighters, many older than the F-22, there are two key reasons why the age of the Raptor's systems could prove an insurmountable obstacle.

    Unlike the F-15, which remains in production to this day, the termination of F-22 production has made it extremely difficult to upgrade and prevented the Air Force from modernising the design as was done with its fourth generation predecessor. While the Raptor's could potentially be improved at great time and expense, regular upgrades needed to keep the fighter at the cutting edge against near peer platforms remain an unlikely prospect. The fighter’s stealth profile and airframe, while formidable, are increasingly surpassed by next generation systems which have been developed since the Raptor's design was finalised. While these could be modified and updated on future variants should production lines still be running, their closure has eliminated such a possibility. As it stands, the Air Force has little room to improve the quality of its F-22 Raptor fleet. The J-20 by contrast, only at the beginning of its production run, has seen its capabilities revolutionised within a year and these continue to be modernised apace - from new ramjet powered air to air missiles to more sophisticated stealth systems and cutting edge new engines. The J-20 is thus set to remain a world leading and highly relevant fighter long after the Raptor has passed its usefulness - very likely integrating sixth generation technologies as the F-35 and Russian Su-57 are also set to do.

    The third major constraint on the Raptor's ability to influence a war in the Pacific is that the fighter's design was heavily influenced by the need to prepare for a potential for a war against Warsaw Pact forces in Europe. The fighter was commissioned and conceptualised in the 1980s with the primary goal of defeating the Soviet fourth generation Su-27 over European battlefields, a role for which the F-15 fell short. The capabilities of the F-22, particularly its range, strongly reflect the needs of the Cold War European theatre more than any other - and the Raptor is until today better suited than any other NATO fighter to a potential war with Russia in Europe. In the Pacific theatre however the United States had never anticipated a near peer threat, with China in the 1980s relying primarily on the Vietnam War era J-7 for aerial warfare against which the F-15 and even the F-4E Phantom were more than adequate to ensure an advantage. While the Raptor has been pressed into service in the Pacific it was never designed for such a theatre - as reflected by its wholly inadequate range and resulting high reliance on aerial refuelling to reach its targets. As noted in a study by the RAND corporation think tank, this reliance on aerial refuelling has made Raptor highly vulnerable to becoming stranded should its non stealthy, bulky and highly vulnerable tankers be destroyed - a likely outcome should they attempt to ferry F-22s anywhere near Chinese territory. This lack of range and reliance on highly vulnerable and tankers which lack radar evading capabilities compromises the potential combat performance of the F-22 in Asia significantly. Indeed according to the study by RAND Cooperation, even if assuming highly unrealistic optimal conditions under which the F-22 were deployed and managed to score a perfect number of kills against Chinese fighters and no combat losses - the fleet would still ultimately be destroyed as remaining Chinese fighters would be able to target tankers and prevent the F-22s from returning to their bases once the American fighters had expended their ammunition. This would force the F-22s either to crash into the sea or land at Chinese bases. The lack of a naval variant of the F-22 meanwhile makes deployment from carriers closer to the Chinese coast, which would reduce or eliminate the need for tankers, impossible.

    The J-20, though currently perhaps slightly less capable as an air superiority platform than the F-22, has been developed specifically for war in the Pacific theatre - retaining a considerably longer range than the Raptor. In its 2011 Annual Report to Congress the Pentagon described the J-20 as "a platform capable of long range, penetrating strikes into complex air defence environments" - reflecting both its formidable survivability as a fast, high flying and stealth jet and its long range and high payload ideally suited to an offensive role in the Pacific - putting U.S. facilities at considerable risk without a considerable need for tanker support. Coming at under a third of the F-22's cost, and based on a comparison of other Chinese jets to their American equivalents also requiring far less maintenance, there will be many times more J-20 jets in the skies over Asia than there will be Raptors in the entire world - with the Chinese fighter set to be built in considerably greater numbers, spend more time in the air for every hour of maintenance on the ground, and see their deployments concentrated to the Pacific theatre where the Raptors are scattered across the world. As a result it is likely that the J-20 fleet will outnumber the Raptors in the Pacific theatre by an order of magnitude if not more. Combined with highly similar capabilities today and applications of new upgrades at a far faster rate, the J-20 is set to be a more capable, more numerous and better specialised fighter to combat in the Pacific theatre - a possibly decisive game changer in the balance of power which the Raptor can never be.
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    Post  Finty Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:04 am

    And a paywalled article making the case for a two-seater...

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3131295/why-two-heads-would-be-better-one-chinas-mighty-dragon
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    Post  walle83 Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:46 pm

    Pictures of the J-20 during the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Communist Party of China in Beijing.

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