Home
Latest images
Register
Log in
China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter Shows Off New Camouflage
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201610191046516119-j-20-camouflage/
Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201610191046516119-j-20-camouflage/
+49
ALAMO
Podlodka77
lancelot
TMA1
bren_tann
Hole
Finty
JohninMK
Backman
walle83
Tsavo Lion
Cyberspec
Kimppis
MC-21
medo
kvs
OminousSpudd
PapaDragon
ATLASCUB
Isos
Hannibal Barca
miketheterrible
KiloGolf
max steel
berhoum
Tyloe
type055
Sujoy
Mike E
nemrod
magnumcromagnon
Zivo
TR1
KomissarBojanchev
Firebird
SOC
George1
GarryB
Chrisa
Pervius
IronsightSniper
Ogannisyan8887
Admin
lulldapull
nightcrawler
Russian Patriot
Corrosion
Viktor
Austin
53 posters
Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter
George1- Posts : 18338
Points : 18835
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
George1- Posts : 18338
Points : 18835
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
First footage of China's fifth generation fighter
More:
http://tass.com/defense/910013
More:
http://tass.com/defense/910013
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
Stealth Fighter Showdown: China's New J-20 vs. Russia's Super T-50 PAK-FA
Dave Majumdar
November 2, 2016
China’s J-20 stealth fighter is making headlines around the world--and for obvious reasons. While the plane has been seen in various testing phases for some years now, the aircraft just made its official debut at an airshow in China--a symbol of Beijing’s growing military muscle.
Combined with China’s new aircraft carrier (with a second now nearing completion, the first built in a Chinese shipyard, by the way), various types of advanced antiship weapons, multiple versions of advanced submarines and more, Beijing clearly is on a course (many argue already is) to become one of the world’s most dangerous military powers, alongside Russia and America.
But how would China’s new stealth jet do in open warfare? Could it really tangle with the world’s best? Here is a question: What about a matchup against Russia’s new 5th generation fighter, the PAK-FA. Last year, TNI’s Defense Editor, Dave Majumdar, explored this question. So who would win?
...
The J-20, which is powered by engines intended for the Sukhoi Su-27, is at a huge disadvantage. Compared to the PAK-FA, the J-20 is underpowered and wouldn’t have the energy addition to keep up. Moreover, the PAK-FA has three-dimensional thrust vectoring for outstanding low speed handling. That means the Russian aircraft probably has the edge in turn rate, turn radius and high angle of attack performance. But if both sides have high off-boresight missiles and helmet-mounted cueing systems, with a little luck, the J-20 might get a lucky shot—however, the PAK-FA probably still has the edge.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/stealth-fighter-showdown-chinas-new-j-20-vs-russias-super-t-18265
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
Points : 7341
Join date : 2016-11-06
And this is why I cant take what you say with a straight face. The national Interest is probably one of the most pathetic news stories out there. On par with CNN. Onion has far more legitimacy in their articles even if satirical.
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
miketheterrible wrote:And this is why I cant take what you say with a straight face. The national Interest is probably one of the most pathetic news stories out there. On par with CNN. Onion has far more legitimacy in their articles even if satirical.
Well it's not exactly on the level of Sputnik or RT either. And stop making these inspired conclusions of yours out of me posting an article. If you disagree with the content, quote bits and pieces and start a discussion.
GarryB- Posts : 39109
Points : 39605
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
No news agency has any idea about military equipment... their quality largely rests on the experts they choose to quote... they can quote idiots or real experts... most of the western experts chosen in western media are cold war ex military die hard anti Ruskies so their opinions rarely reflect reality.
Perhaps you find a better quality article and we can discuss... until then this stuff is not worth bothering to read.
Perhaps you find a better quality article and we can discuss... until then this stuff is not worth bothering to read.
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
GarryB wrote:Perhaps you find a better quality article and we can discuss... until then this stuff is not worth bothering to read.
Perhaps you have no idea how to read and interpret information? Until then spare me with the tips, I'll pass.
PS. You/me/anyone not liking the source has nothing to do with the quality in sparking a meaningful discussion.
George1- Posts : 18338
Points : 18835
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
The first fighter J-20 made in the People's Liberation Army Air Force
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2315221.html
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2315221.html
GarryB- Posts : 39109
Points : 39605
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
PS. You/me/anyone not liking the source has nothing to do with the quality in sparking a meaningful discussion.
By definition a bad source is a poor basis to start a discussion... they are a bad source because they post crap. If you want to talk about crap... go elsewhere.
I appreciate some people like to post crap material to see it get ripped apart by people who actually know what they are talking about... it is an easy... if lazy way to learn new stuff... but if you keep doing it eventually the article rippers will turn on the messenger for continually posting bullshit.
If you want to talk about a meaningful discussion why don't you start one for a change.
Hannibal Barca- Posts : 1443
Points : 1451
Join date : 2013-12-13
What Chinese did is staggering. They developed a 5th gen plane in 5 years.
George1- Posts : 18338
Points : 18835
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Chinese Stealth J-20 Jet Enters Service With PLA
China has put its new Chengdu J20 stealth fighter jet in service, in efforts to develop a marine corps and a “first class” Navy, while simultaneously narrowing the military gap with US. Beijing’s military is undergoing major upgrades, complete with advanced submarines and anti-satellite missiles, all under the supervision of President Xi Jinping.
Chinese planespotters first saw the J20 in 2010, and the public got its first glimpse of the craft at the Zhuhai airshow in November 2016. The military channel on China’s state television confirmed that the plan had entered service on Thursday.
What remains to be seen is whether the J20 can evade radar with the same aptitude as Lockheed Martin’s F-35 strike jet, or Lockheed’s air-to-air combat jet F-22 Raptor. The development of the new Chinese aircraft began in the late 1990s and had its first flight in 2011.
In November 2016, aviation journalist Andreas Rupprecht wrote in the Aviationist, "The J-20 is a giant leap for the PLAAF both capability-wise and technology-wise. Did anyone of us expect a Chinese stealth fighter to be operational before 2020 when asked in, let’s say, 2010?"
The speed of the craft’s development outpaced that of the F-35, and was specifically built to exploit a weakness in the US Air Force airborne early warning and control aircraft, and unarmed aerial refuelers.
In 2014, while then-US President Barack Obama was attending an Asia-Pacific summit in China, Beijing presented an unfinished J-31 twin-engine jet, a craft meant to compete with the F-35.
https://sputniknews.com/military/201703101051465409-china-stealth-fighter-enters-service/
So first J-20s have been delivered???
GarryB- Posts : 39109
Points : 39605
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
What Chinese did is staggering. They developed a 5th gen plane in 5 years.
Is it actually 5th gen?
Based on what we know about their engines it probably has 4th gen fighter engines... what is the quality of the other systems?
Anyone can take a shell that looks stealthy and fill it with air plane bits and call it a 5th gen fighter... I mean south korea could easily make an F-35 like shell with a better shape and put bits of late model F-16 inside it and call it a 5th gen fighter... it means nothing really.
Not that I am putting down the Chinese... the this generation or that generation number is meaningless. If this aircraft is useful to China and they can make it in sufficient numbers to get that job done because it is not ridiculously expensive like the F-35 is then good on them...
Isos- Posts : 11312
Points : 11282
Join date : 2015-11-06
GarryB wrote:What Chinese did is staggering. They developed a 5th gen plane in 5 years.
Is it actually 5th gen?
Based on what we know about their engines it probably has 4th gen fighter engines... what is the quality of the other systems?
Anyone can take a shell that looks stealthy and fill it with air plane bits and call it a 5th gen fighter... I mean south korea could easily make an F-35 like shell with a better shape and put bits of late model F-16 inside it and call it a 5th gen fighter... it means nothing really.
Not that I am putting down the Chinese... the this generation or that generation number is meaningless. If this aircraft is useful to China and they can make it in sufficient numbers to get that job done because it is not ridiculously expensive like the F-35 is then good on them...
J-31 will be more dangerous I think. They used all the data the hacked from F-35 program. The last prototype was different from the others because they manage to implement US copied tech on it.
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
Points : 7341
Join date : 2016-11-06
Isos wrote:GarryB wrote:What Chinese did is staggering. They developed a 5th gen plane in 5 years.
Is it actually 5th gen?
Based on what we know about their engines it probably has 4th gen fighter engines... what is the quality of the other systems?
Anyone can take a shell that looks stealthy and fill it with air plane bits and call it a 5th gen fighter... I mean south korea could easily make an F-35 like shell with a better shape and put bits of late model F-16 inside it and call it a 5th gen fighter... it means nothing really.
Not that I am putting down the Chinese... the this generation or that generation number is meaningless. If this aircraft is useful to China and they can make it in sufficient numbers to get that job done because it is not ridiculously expensive like the F-35 is then good on them...
J-31 will be more dangerous I think. They used all the data the hacked from F-35 program. The last prototype was different from the others because they manage to implement US copied tech on it.
J-31 is being done by the same company that copies every other jet out their - the one that has done the J-15, etc. Quality assessment of their stuff usually indicates poor quality. Stealing tech from F-35 doesn't guarantee any kind of quality or anything. Guaranteed they just supplimant certain tech with their own to make the J-31 and it will be worst than that of the F-35 is. The J-20 will be a far better jet and GarryB is correct - it may look pretty, may look like it is fifth gen, but is it really? From my understanding, it is using Russian 4th gen engines and Radar will be questionable - same AESA modules used on their supposed AESA radars used on their rip off Su-27's which may sound great, but judging some numbers floating around I have once read, detection rates, etc - gives an indication the modules either do not work as intended or are very low powered which is what I am leading to believe in.
That though, doesn't make it a weak system or poor weapon. It just though means it isn't as efficient. But if it is cheap enough, I don't think China overtly cares and the system is still going to be a major threat to everyone around them.
GarryB- Posts : 39109
Points : 39605
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
They don't need the best in the world super duper killing machine.
They might not be perfect to start with, but over time they will get improvements and addons that fix problems and increase capabilities.
They don't need to be as good as the F-35 or better... if they have the capability to kill enemy aircraft and ships then they will be useful and likely built in numbers to make them rather more effective than a few super capable hangar queens that are really state of the art but too expensive to make and use to keep in the inventory.
They might not be perfect to start with, but over time they will get improvements and addons that fix problems and increase capabilities.
They don't need to be as good as the F-35 or better... if they have the capability to kill enemy aircraft and ships then they will be useful and likely built in numbers to make them rather more effective than a few super capable hangar queens that are really state of the art but too expensive to make and use to keep in the inventory.
George1- Posts : 18338
Points : 18835
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
The Ministry of Defense of the PRC officially announced the adoption of the J-20 fighter into service
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2873137.html
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2873137.html
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
George1 wrote:The Ministry of Defense of the PRC officially announced the adoption of the J-20 fighter into service
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2873137.html
Meanwhile, Russia is still dragging their feet with the PAK FA. It's been about 8 years now since that thing took off publicly for the first time.
China seems to have surpassed them.
ATLASCUB- Posts : 1154
Points : 1158
Join date : 2017-02-13
KiloGolf wrote:George1 wrote:The Ministry of Defense of the PRC officially announced the adoption of the J-20 fighter into service
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2873137.html
Meanwhile, Russia is still dragging their feet with the PAK FA. It's been about 8 years now since that thing took off publicly for the first time.
China seems to have surpassed them.
This statement can only be correct if you go by the "quality in numbers" logic. I do subscribe to this logic for the most part. Russia just can't compete numbers wise - both the U.S/China have much more $$$$$ for larger procurements.
Last edited by ATLASCUB on Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total
PapaDragon- Posts : 13292
Points : 13334
Join date : 2015-04-26
Location : Fort Evil, Serbia
This is tweaked MiG 1.44 with some stealth parts and shitty engines
Looks cool but I'll wait for next thing
ATLASCUB- Posts : 1154
Points : 1158
Join date : 2017-02-13
PapaDragon wrote:
This is tweaked MiG 1.44 with some stealth parts and shitty engines
Looks cool but I'll wait for next thing
The Chinesse borrowed from everyone with this plane.
GarryB- Posts : 39109
Points : 39605
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Everyone borrows from everyone... no aircraft is a from scratch build where everything is brand new.
It is not new.... the Americans claimed that the Polikarpov I-16 was a copy of an American GeeBee racer.... it was not because the I-16 was superior in many respects including retractable undercarriage and lack of wire bracing for the wings.
If someone spent a lot of time and money testing shapes and designs why waste time thinking you can do better?
It is not new.... the Americans claimed that the Polikarpov I-16 was a copy of an American GeeBee racer.... it was not because the I-16 was superior in many respects including retractable undercarriage and lack of wire bracing for the wings.
If someone spent a lot of time and money testing shapes and designs why waste time thinking you can do better?
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
ATLASCUB wrote:PapaDragon wrote:
This is tweaked MiG 1.44 with some stealth parts and shitty engines
Looks cool but I'll wait for next thing
The Chinesse borrowed from everyone with this plane.
Everybody borrowed from everyone with most (if not all) of their military aircraft. The Chinese have basically caught up with the US and Russia in terms of 3rd and 4th Gen air-frames and avionics. 5th Gen they're pushing ahead of Russia, right now. But high performance engine materials and metallurgy is their weak spot and it take another decade till they come out on top.
Russia can thank their "Ukrainian partners" and themselves (90s and 00s) for whoring out most of USSR and 90s Russian tech to the PRC. Israel also worked with the PRC in the 90s and France too, till the late 80s. So the PRC through the late 80s till the late 00s, had access to a plethora of technologies that lead them where they are now.
It wasn't just stealing/hacking and reverse engineering.
KiloGolf- Posts : 2481
Points : 2461
Join date : 2015-09-01
Location : Macedonia, Hellas
A great shot of this beauty.
This is what being surpassed looks like (watching you Russia/UAC).
This is what being surpassed looks like (watching you Russia/UAC).
miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
Points : 7341
Join date : 2016-11-06
how are they being surpassed, please explain. We know less about about this jet than we do of the Su-57. Not to mention, we don't even know of material design or even the sensors.
We know for a fact China faces critical issues building jet engines. Who knows about the rest?
Canards on the side are the major issue if one wants to call it a stealth aircraft. Something that Russia went with Lerx rather than canards for the very reason.
We know for a fact China faces critical issues building jet engines. Who knows about the rest?
Canards on the side are the major issue if one wants to call it a stealth aircraft. Something that Russia went with Lerx rather than canards for the very reason.
|
|
|