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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:42 pm

    Erk wrote:It's the howitzers and tanks etc. which are the real targets, because unless they find some sugar daddy like the US or EU to give them more hardware, they will eventually run low. But they can conscript more crews to man them.


    Can Maidan build artillery? I thought they could.
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    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:15 pm

    Conventional wars depend on economic capacity. As long as Russia helps the Donbas, they can last indefinitely. Meanwhile the
    economy of Ukraine is slowly collapsing. Unless NATO wants to prop up the whole of Ukraine, it will be supporting the losing side.

    The current sanctions war against Russia is an obvious link to what I state above. But Russia is too big to fail with such lame
    attacks. The official GDP figures do not properly convey Russia's strength. Germany and Japan would fold with such attacks
    but supposedly they are more economically powerful.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:19 pm

    Erk wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    Harsh?

    You should have seen the post that I nearly made, about giving the NAF chemical munitions for its artillery.

    Now that was harsh.

    I think the trick with this kind of WWII style land battle, which is going on in Donbass, is to destroy the other sides military equipment not so much the soldiers, many of which don't even want to be there. So chemical weapons would not help much when it comes to preventing artillery units from shelling you 24/7, you kill a crew they send in another and keep shelling. It's the howitzers and tanks etc. which are the real targets, because unless they find some sugar daddy like the US or EU to give them more hardware, they will eventually run low. But they can conscript more crews to man them.

    They are still there.

    They all know full well who they do the dirty work for. This is the age of internet and that excuse ''I did not know'' doesn't fly anymore.

    Era of that excuse ended sometime in late 2010's...
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:58 pm

    Anyone know where Zackarchenko is?
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    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:00 pm

    European map... in the eyes of the Poles

    http://news-mail.by/2015/02/10/polskie-smi-obnarodovali-kartu-razdela-ukrainy/

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 21 543216524-672x372
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:01 pm

    kvs wrote:Conventional wars depend on economic capacity.   As long as Russia helps the Donbas, they can last indefinitely.   Meanwhile the
    economy of Ukraine is slowly collapsing.   Unless NATO wants to prop up the whole of Ukraine, it will be supporting the losing side.

    The current sanctions war against Russia is an obvious link to what I state above.   But Russia is too big to fail with such lame
    attacks.   The official GDP figures do not properly convey Russia's strength.   Germany and Japan would fold with such attacks
    but supposedly they are more economically powerful.

    What is funny is that Germany's strongest time, in terms of military and influence, was when it was sanctioned by nearly the world, its economy was in shatters, and they re-orientated towards domestic development and a form of Autarky. That was Nazi Germany. Funny, that in its hardest times economically, it was its military and technical strongest. Seems that is what is happening to Russia. They are re-orientating their economy. Expanding Russian companies abroad, building new relations with old partners from Asia, Latin America to Africa. And now re-orientating its economy to domestic as most are speculating.
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    Post  Guest on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:14 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:

    Some nice ukrainian democratic patriots espousing european values again by fending off another attack by the russian hordes.

    Translation: scumbag ukie patriots beating up a man just because he is wearing a shirt with 'USSR' on it.

    Btw, why the hell is it so difficult to post on this site? Im fed up of writing posts to find that the 'send' button doesnt work.

    3 battles for Kharkov in WW2, hundreds of thousands of Red Army dead.

    And now some fascist apes run around the city and beat people wearing Soviet symbology. They don't even speak Russian, they are imported banderovite scum.

    The city has been overtaken by the Unclean, and should be purged with fire.

    But on second thoughts, why bother.

    I don't blame the Nazis, they're just doing what Nazis do best, can't blame an animal, even a banderovite one, for acting according to its instincts.
    Who I really blame are the Kharkov population, the same ones whose ancestors died to free the city from the Nazis.
    If their ancestors saw them now, if they could only see them now - they would spit on them; and so would I.
    Cowards, the lot of them. Working at the factories, building T-64s for the Great Hohol Army, probably being forced to scream 'Slava Ukraine!' so much now that they've accepted the slogan as their very own. They've willingly become brainwashed into Ukr propaganda by now, justifying their collaboration with their new found faux patriotism and artifical hatred against their 'sep' neighbours in the Donbass who had the balls to stand up and fight while they didn't. In their hearts they know it is a lie, but they cling to it anyway; the alternative is to face the truth - that they are cowards, and a disgrace to their forebears. They can't face it, the mirror stares back at them, and it shames them.

    And some people think that the VSN should sacrifice their men to liberate someone. They made their choice - let them rot
    Quite a harsh thing to say. I do agree with you on some points however. Kharkov has and still is a Russian city, that won't change soon (unless concentration camps start popping up and I would not be surprised if they did now). Don't think that all the residents shouting "Heil Hitler" "Slava Ukrainia" are all locals now brainwashed. Many residents are now in positions where they can't get out without endangering their families and friends. Life there is still hard and if they do something out of the party line it could get a lot worse for them personally.

    Harsh?

    You should have seen the post that I nearly made, about giving the NAF chemical munitions for its artillery.

    Now that was harsh.
    But I can't in good conscience recommend it - not so much out of any feelings of compassion for the Hohol shit army (although I don't think they all deserve it), but more because they can do the same thing back, and against cities too.
    Now that isn't harsh and a rather good idea in my opinion. The residents of Kharkov, Mariupol and other Hohol occupied towns don't deserve to burn. I can't say the same for the Ukrop forces, at this point they deserve the harshest way to go. Thankfully, chemical munitions do that to you and it be an excellent way to get rid of Russia's chemical stocks.
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    Post  Erk on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:19 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    What is funny is that Germany's strongest time, in terms of military and influence, was when it was sanctioned by nearly the world, its economy was in shatters, and they re-orientated towards domestic development and a form of Autarky.  That was Nazi Germany.  Funny, that in its hardest times economically, it was its military and technical strongest.  Seems that is what is happening to Russia.  They are re-orientating their economy.  Expanding Russian companies abroad, building new relations with old partners from Asia, Latin America to Africa.  And now re-orientating its economy to domestic as most are speculating.

    Globalization is not what it's advertised to be, local production avoids the energy consuming international freight. Fortunately for Russia is that most of their imports don't have to travel far, mainly China and Germany. I think the sanctions have done Russia the world of good in promoting local production, you get soft when you are addicted to imports.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:41 pm

    Basically the Poles mocked the Maidanists by shouting "Slava Putin!" in a parade

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201508220955-yefa.htm
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    Post  Guest on Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:02 am

    higurashihougi wrote:Basically the Poles mocked the Maidanists by shouting "Slava Putin!" in a parade

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201508220955-yefa.htm
    Now that is ironic... and edgy haha!
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:38 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:

    Some nice ukrainian democratic patriots espousing european values again by fending off another attack by the russian hordes.

    Translation: scumbag ukie patriots beating up a man just because he is wearing a shirt with 'USSR' on it.

    Btw, why the hell is it so difficult to post on this site? Im fed up of writing posts to find that the 'send' button doesnt work.

    3 battles for Kharkov in WW2, hundreds of thousands of Red Army dead.

    And now some fascist apes run around the city and beat people wearing Soviet symbology. They don't even speak Russian, they are imported banderovite scum.

    The city has been overtaken by the Unclean, and should be purged with fire.

    But on second thoughts, why bother.

    I don't blame the Nazis, they're just doing what Nazis do best, can't blame an animal, even a banderovite one, for acting according to its instincts.
    Who I really blame are the Kharkov population, the same ones whose ancestors died to free the city from the Nazis.
    If their ancestors saw them now, if they could only see them now - they would spit on them; and so would I.
    Cowards, the lot of them. Working at the factories, building T-64s for the Great Hohol Army, probably being forced to scream 'Slava Ukraine!' so much now that they've accepted the slogan as their very own. They've willingly become brainwashed into Ukr propaganda by now, justifying their collaboration with their new found faux patriotism and artifical hatred against their 'sep' neighbours in the Donbass who had the balls to stand up and fight while they didn't. In their hearts they know it is a lie, but they cling to it anyway; the alternative is to face the truth - that they are cowards, and a disgrace to their forebears. They can't face it, the mirror stares back at them, and it shames them.

    And some people think that the VSN should sacrifice their men to liberate someone. They made their choice - let them rot
    Quite a harsh thing to say. I do agree with you on some points however. Kharkov has and still is a Russian city, that won't change soon (unless concentration camps start popping up and I would not be surprised if they did now). Don't think that all the residents shouting "Heil Hitler" "Slava Ukrainia" are all locals now brainwashed. Many residents are now in positions where they can't get out without endangering their families and friends. Life there is still hard and if they do something out of the party line it could get a lot worse for them personally.

    Harsh?

    You should have seen the post that I nearly made, about giving the NAF chemical munitions for its artillery.

    Now that was harsh.
    But I can't in good conscience recommend it - not so much out of any feelings of compassion for the Hohol shit army (although I don't think they all deserve it), but more because they can do the same thing back, and against cities too.
    Now that isn't harsh and a rather good idea in my opinion. The residents of Kharkov, Mariupol and other Hohol occupied towns don't deserve to burn. I can't say the same for the Ukrop forces, at this point they deserve the harshest way to go. Thankfully, chemical munitions do that to you and it be an excellent way to get rid of Russia's chemical stocks.

    I'm not saying they deserve to burn, I'm saying they deserve the government they have. If they're not willing to resist against even the most blatant oppression, who can help them and why should anyone?
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:01 am

    sepheronx wrote:What is funny is that Germany's strongest time, in terms of military and influence, was when it was sanctioned by nearly the world, its economy was in shatters, and they re-orientated towards domestic development and a form of Autarky.  That was Nazi Germany.  Funny, that in its hardest times economically, it was its military and technical strongest.  Seems that is what is happening to Russia.  They are re-orientating their economy.  Expanding Russian companies abroad, building new relations with old partners from Asia, Latin America to Africa.  And now re-orientating its economy to domestic as most are speculating.

    Funny, that you missed that the re-armament was bankrupting Germany or how the Nazis damaged the German science community.
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    Post  Guest on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:12 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:

    Some nice ukrainian democratic patriots espousing european values again by fending off another attack by the russian hordes.

    Translation: scumbag ukie patriots beating up a man just because he is wearing a shirt with 'USSR' on it.

    Btw, why the hell is it so difficult to post on this site? Im fed up of writing posts to find that the 'send' button doesnt work.

    3 battles for Kharkov in WW2, hundreds of thousands of Red Army dead.

    And now some fascist apes run around the city and beat people wearing Soviet symbology. They don't even speak Russian, they are imported banderovite scum.

    The city has been overtaken by the Unclean, and should be purged with fire.

    But on second thoughts, why bother.

    I don't blame the Nazis, they're just doing what Nazis do best, can't blame an animal, even a banderovite one, for acting according to its instincts.
    Who I really blame are the Kharkov population, the same ones whose ancestors died to free the city from the Nazis.
    If their ancestors saw them now, if they could only see them now - they would spit on them; and so would I.
    Cowards, the lot of them. Working at the factories, building T-64s for the Great Hohol Army, probably being forced to scream 'Slava Ukraine!' so much now that they've accepted the slogan as their very own. They've willingly become brainwashed into Ukr propaganda by now, justifying their collaboration with their new found faux patriotism and artifical hatred against their 'sep' neighbours in the Donbass who had the balls to stand up and fight while they didn't. In their hearts they know it is a lie, but they cling to it anyway; the alternative is to face the truth - that they are cowards, and a disgrace to their forebears. They can't face it, the mirror stares back at them, and it shames them.

    And some people think that the VSN should sacrifice their men to liberate someone. They made their choice - let them rot
    Quite a harsh thing to say. I do agree with you on some points however. Kharkov has and still is a Russian city, that won't change soon (unless concentration camps start popping up and I would not be surprised if they did now). Don't think that all the residents shouting "Heil Hitler" "Slava Ukrainia" are all locals now brainwashed. Many residents are now in positions where they can't get out without endangering their families and friends. Life there is still hard and if they do something out of the party line it could get a lot worse for them personally.

    Harsh?

    You should have seen the post that I nearly made, about giving the NAF chemical munitions for its artillery.

    Now that was harsh.
    But I can't in good conscience recommend it - not so much out of any feelings of compassion for the Hohol shit army (although I don't think they all deserve it), but more because they can do the same thing back, and against cities too.
    Now that isn't harsh and a rather good idea in my opinion. The residents of Kharkov, Mariupol and other Hohol occupied towns don't deserve to burn. I can't say the same for the Ukrop forces, at this point they deserve the harshest way to go. Thankfully, chemical munitions do that to you and it be an excellent way to get rid of Russia's chemical stocks.

    I'm not saying they deserve to burn, I'm saying they deserve the government they have. If they're not willing to resist against even the most blatant oppression, who can help them and why should anyone?
    Fair point, but what if their and our ancestors were to say the same thing 70 years ago? No, we won't liberate (insert Soviet city under occupation here) because not enough people are resisting. Bear in mind that there are still Partizan groups running around in this war too. Therefore, they must like the Nazis despite heinous crimes committed against the local populace. Those heinous crimes are likely being repeated. For example, plenty of Eastern Ukraine residents suspect that Kiev is behind those mass graves in Slaviansk. While it is not a blatant invasion like it was all those years ago, it still was an invasion. I hope you read the PM I sent you. The people there are under occupation from a government they never elected and that government brought people from far away to keep the locals in check (especially after Odessa). Those locals are being robbed of their way of life and the locals are trying to preserve it as best they can and at the same time trying to not get killed. Anybody who has who doesn't bend over to the new laws enacted by the Maidan puts his/her and their loved ones lives in danger. Just like 70 years ago, many people are in no position to resist but they will leap for joy once their people come to help.
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    Post  Khepesh on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:40 am

    Here are the huge crowds in Kharkov last night celebrating "Independance Day", so many it is like counting grains of sand on a beach, and the brightness of the mood shines out of the photo so happy is the vast multitude.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 21 E0120a855c63

    Here are a few disgruntled people, clearly a tiny minority of the population, at a concert for the so called "Victory Day" a few years back in Kharkov. See how these very few people are forced to join in singing about some evil fantasy entity called the "USSR".
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    Post  Khepesh on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:23 am

    Longer video of all the ukrops equipment that rolled out of Chuguev a few days back
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    Post  Godric on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:33 am

    Khepesh wrote:Longer video of all the ukrops equipment that rolled out of Chuguev a few days back

    holy f**k did you see the nick of that first T-72B1 I thought it was going to conk out ... it was really struggling
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    Post  Khepesh on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:43 am

    Curious news. Donbass Media Group had posted photos of what appears to be contrails over Gorlovka and asked for residents for furhter info on sitings and if anybody could confirm they have seen jets or missile. To me it is possible they are contrails, but could easily just be a cloud pattern. That was a few hours ago and I ignored it. But now it is reported that five Russian fighters have flown over Schastye. I have no idea if this is true and would not report either incident in isolation, but together on the same morning causes more attention to be paid.
    https://vk.com/donbass.media?w=wall-90561387_14579
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    Post  Erk on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:36 am

    Khepesh wrote:Curious news. Donbass Media Group had posted photos of what appears to be contrails over Gorlovka and asked for residents for furhter info on sitings and if anybody could confirm they have seen jets or missile. To me it is possible they are contrails, but could easily just be a cloud pattern. That was a few hours ago and I ignored it. But now it is reported that five Russian fighters have flown over Schastye. I have no idea if this is true and would not report either incident in isolation, but together on the same morning causes more attention to be paid.
    https://vk.com/donbass.media?w=wall-90561387_14579

    You would know if it were Russian as they would have taken out the air defenses first.

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    Post  whir on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:54 am

    Khepesh wrote:Curious news. Donbass Media Group had posted photos of what appears to be contrails over Gorlovka and asked for residents for furhter info on sitings and if anybody could confirm they have seen jets or missile. To me it is possible they are contrails, but could easily just be a cloud pattern. That was a few hours ago and I ignored it. But now it is reported that five Russian fighters have flown over Schastye. I have no idea if this is true and would not report either incident in isolation, but together on the same morning causes more attention to be paid.
    Both, the brightly rectilinear ones are clearly contrails while the dimmed formations in the background are decaying clouds.
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    Post  Dforce on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:11 am

    Any news about the upcoming Ukrainian offensive? It probably starts any day now, right?
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    Post  Neutrality on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:29 am

    Dforce wrote:Any news about the upcoming Ukrainian offensive? It probably starts any day now, right?

    I'm also curious about the next weeks. What exactly is going to happen to the massive Ukrainian force on the frontline. They are there for something and there are probably many nationalists among them. Poroshenko postponing or cancelling the offensive is not going to be a popular move with the army IMHO.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:56 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    Dforce wrote:Any news about the upcoming Ukrainian offensive? It probably starts any day now, right?

    I'm also curious about the next weeks. What exactly is going to happen to the massive Ukrainian force on the frontline. They are there for something and there are probably many nationalists among them. Poroshenko postponing or cancelling the offensive is not going to be a popular move with the army IMHO.

    Order of decay. Time isn't on Ukraine's side here.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:39 am

    2 Maidan soldiers KIA and 9 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday cheers
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    Post  Khepesh on Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:13 am

    Kiev denied that VVS had made an incursion into Ukraine airspace today. But the reports from Schastye originated from an ex Kiev junta minister who is now a "soldier" at the front at Schastye. If the reports from Gorlovka are true, then I would think that perhaps if any aircraft were flying then they were UAF and for some reason they deny it, and Russia is silent. The ex minister, Dmitry Bulatov, was unable to say what type of aircraft he saw, so I doubt that he would have been able to see what markings they had, if they existed.

    World works in odd ways. There was talk of "where is Zakharchenko" then a few hours later he is said to have been in Debaltsevo talking about coal and food production and distribution. Perhaps at the same time Plotnitskiy was a few km along the road in Stakhanov talking about Aleksei Grigorevich..... Anyway, also talk of "where is Pavel Dremov" and now he appears to talk about possibility of massive provocation by ukrops. So, where is Zhukov? and lets wait to see when he appears, soon.....
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:35 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    Dforce wrote:Any news about the upcoming Ukrainian offensive? It probably starts any day now, right?

    I'm also curious about the next weeks. What exactly is going to happen to the massive Ukrainian force on the frontline. They are there for something and there are probably many nationalists among them. Poroshenko postponing or cancelling the offensive is not going to be a popular move with the army IMHO.

    Lots of people, lots of hardware and it all costs a lot of money... September is several days away...

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