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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

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    SturmGuard


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    Post  SturmGuard Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:56 pm

    I suggest reading his post again, going through his posting history and then performing quite a substantial edit of your post or outright deletion. I won't quote you because later you might feel ashamed about what you have written, and after all it is a misunderstanding.

    EDIT: damage control ineffective


    Last edited by SturmGuard on Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
    franco
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    Post  franco Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:58 pm

    If Kiev says so it must be truth, especially if backed by such a genius military mind such us yourself. Of course they didn't back it up with any proof, Western own intelligence has dismissed all of that multiple times (except American intelligence, that great truth seekers), so all we have in the end is a nazi fuck who believes anything that fascist scum says. Kudos for being so open about your sick mind, and hopefully you'll be willing to do something about it. It's time for you to go to Donbass and fight "Putin's military" and put to use your genius.

    Number 1 - what are you talking about?
    Number 2 - please read my post just above this.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:30 pm

    Erk wrote:20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.

    If Kiev knows all this about how and where Russian military forces are, why is there still no decent video proof, and why is Kiev still shelling mainly civilian homes and buildings instead of this alleged Russian force?

    Well after all Kyiv chief of staff admitted that 90% of Ukie intelligence information are bullshit.

    Which explains many things. Cool Cool
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:55 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Erk wrote:20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.

    If Kiev knows all this about how and where Russian military forces are, why is there still no decent video proof, and why is Kiev still shelling mainly civilian homes and buildings instead of this alleged Russian force?

    Well after all Kyiv chief of staff admitted that 90% of Ukie intelligence information are bullshit.

    Which explains many things. Cool Cool
    Yes, but that was referring to last summer before the arrival of what is no doubt a large US SIGINT team in Kiev, with access to what are probably the best intelligence gathering assets in existence. Filtered for local use of course.

    Given that knowledge and still building up their forces in the East, one has to have a deep feeling of concern about the next step. Has Kiev intentionally created a 'sacrificial' army, created in the certain knowledge that it will be slaughtered, designed to be the offering that generates a flow of money into Ukraine that can then be syphoned off for the greater good of the banksters, oligarchs and people on the inside, leaving a destitute Ukraine that can be bought for peanuts? All that is needed is a trigger.
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:04 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Yes, but that was referring to last summer before the arrival of what is no doubt a large US SIGINT team in Kiev, with access to what are probably the best intelligence gathering assets in existence. Filtered for local use of course.

    Given that knowledge and still building up their forces in the East, one has to have a deep feeling of concern about the next step. Has Kiev intentionally created a 'sacrificial' army, created in the certain knowledge that it will be slaughtered, designed to be the offering that generates a flow of money into Ukraine that can then be syphoned off for the greater good of the banksters, oligarchs and people on the inside, leaving a destitute Ukraine that can be bought for peanuts? All that is needed is a trigger.

    Don't forget 2 things. You have to assume that there are plenty of pro-Moscow moles within the ranks of the VSU and if they have or had access to the information that US team is gathering there, they'd have shared it with their sources by now. Second, Russia has several satellite-tracking posts so they'll probably know what kind of spy satellites could be spying above Donbass and adjust NAF's actions accordingly by "maskirovka" or some other method which you and I are not aware of.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 30 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  franco Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:06 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:
    Erk wrote:20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.

    If Kiev knows all this about how and where Russian military forces are, why is there still no decent video proof, and why is Kiev still shelling mainly civilian homes and buildings instead of this alleged Russian force?

    Well after all Kyiv chief of staff admitted that 90% of Ukie intelligence information are bullshit.

    Which explains many things. Cool Cool
    Yes, but that was referring to last summer before the arrival of what is no doubt a large US SIGINT team in Kiev, with access to what are probably the best intelligence gathering assets in existence. Filtered for local use of course.

    Given that knowledge and still building up their forces in the East, one has to have a deep feeling of concern about the next step. Has Kiev intentionally created a 'sacrificial' army, created in the certain knowledge that it will be slaughtered, designed to be the offering that generates a flow of money into Ukraine that can then be syphoned off for the greater good of the banksters, oligarchs and people on the inside, leaving a destitute Ukraine that can be bought for peanuts? All that is needed is a trigger.

    While continuing to play it is the "Russian Army" invading card and there is no Ukrainian opposition to Maiden... only Russian soldiers and a few ethnic Russian Ukrainians that should move back to Russia anyway.
    kvs
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 30 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  kvs Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:07 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:
    Erk wrote:20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.

    If Kiev knows all this about how and where Russian military forces are, why is there still no decent video proof, and why is Kiev still shelling mainly civilian homes and buildings instead of this alleged Russian force?

    Well after all Kyiv chief of staff admitted that 90% of Ukie intelligence information are bullshit.

    Which explains many things. Cool Cool
    Yes, but that was referring to last summer before the arrival of what is no doubt a large US SIGINT team in Kiev, with access to what are probably the best intelligence gathering assets in existence. Filtered for local use of course.

    Given that knowledge and still building up their forces in the East, one has to have a deep feeling of concern about the next step. Has Kiev intentionally created a 'sacrificial' army, created in the certain knowledge that it will be slaughtered, designed to be the offering that generates a flow of money into Ukraine that can then be syphoned off for the greater good of the banksters, oligarchs and people on the inside, leaving a destitute Ukraine that can be bought for peanuts? All that is needed is a trigger.

    I wouldn't hype the US contribution to Kiev regime intelligence too hard. They were getting all that the US could give them as of March 2014.
    They don't need some team to arrive in Ukraine to provide sigint. Providing the regime forces with encrypted comm devices is a different story.

    At the end of the day the situation at the front is what counts. You can't make reluctant soldiers with Right Sector goon battalions at their
    rear shooting them if they flee into a motivated force. For some reason the Right Sector goons are not doing the actual fighting and their
    primary activity is to form very large paramilitary death squads (like Azov) and to act as blocking units. There will be no decisive regime victory
    because of US assistance. This war can last indefinitely. Russia just has to supply the rebels with ammo and equipment and intelligence. It
    is doing that and Uncle Sam can do f*ck all about it.
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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:09 pm

    franco wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:
    Erk wrote:20committee.com is the same site that says Snowden is a fraud.

    If Kiev knows all this about how and where Russian military forces are, why is there still no decent video proof, and why is Kiev still shelling mainly civilian homes and buildings instead of this alleged Russian force?

    Well after all Kyiv chief of staff admitted that 90% of Ukie intelligence information are bullshit.

    Which explains many things. Cool Cool
    Yes, but that was referring to last summer before the arrival of what is no doubt a large US SIGINT team in Kiev, with access to what are probably the best intelligence gathering assets in existence. Filtered for local use of course.

    Given that knowledge and still building up their forces in the East, one has to have a deep feeling of concern about the next step. Has Kiev intentionally created a 'sacrificial' army, created in the certain knowledge that it will be slaughtered, designed to be the offering that generates a flow of money into Ukraine that can then be syphoned off for the greater good of the banksters, oligarchs and people on the inside, leaving a destitute Ukraine that can be bought for peanuts? All that is needed is a trigger.

    While continuing to play it is the "Russian Army" invading card and there is no Ukrainian opposition to Maiden... only Russian soldiers and a few ethnic Russian Ukrainians that should move back to Russia anyway.

    Such a racket can't last. Ukraine's economy is sinking. It is just that you don't hear about from the MSM. But I know for a fact that
    people are starving in Ukraine and many are being kept alive by money transfers from abroad.
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    Post  franco Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:11 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Yes, but that was referring to last summer before the arrival of what is no doubt a large US SIGINT team in Kiev, with access to what are probably the best intelligence gathering assets in existence. Filtered for local use of course.

    Given that knowledge and still building up their forces in the East, one has to have a deep feeling of concern about the next step. Has Kiev intentionally created a 'sacrificial' army, created in the certain knowledge that it will be slaughtered, designed to be the offering that generates a flow of money into Ukraine that can then be syphoned off for the greater good of the banksters, oligarchs and people on the inside, leaving a destitute Ukraine that can be bought for peanuts? All that is needed is a trigger.

    Don't forget 2 things. You have to assume that there are plenty of pro-Moscow moles within the ranks of the VSU and if they have or had access to the information that US team is gathering there, they'd have shared it with their sources by now. Second, Russia has several satellite-tracking posts so they'll probably know what kind of spy satellites could be spying above Donbass and adjust NAF's actions accordingly by "maskirovka" or some other method which you and I are not aware of.

    I say that goes for both sides. NATO or for sure the Americans are feeding intel to the Ukrainians while Russia is feeding intel to the NAF. To quote myself earlier "Both sides have a fairly good grasp on what the other side have. The NAF releasing planned invasion routes and units to be involved was their way of telling the UAF they were on to them. This is the UAF telling the NAF "Yeah!, but we know where you live too!" Old fashion psyops!"
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    Post  gregoire Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:07 pm

    franco wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Yes, but that was referring to last summer before the arrival of what is no doubt a large US SIGINT team in Kiev, with access to what are probably the best intelligence gathering assets in existence. Filtered for local use of course.

    Given that knowledge and still building up their forces in the East, one has to have a deep feeling of concern about the next step. Has Kiev intentionally created a 'sacrificial' army, created in the certain knowledge that it will be slaughtered, designed to be the offering that generates a flow of money into Ukraine that can then be syphoned off for the greater good of the banksters, oligarchs and people on the inside, leaving a destitute Ukraine that can be bought for peanuts? All that is needed is a trigger.

    Don't forget 2 things. You have to assume that there are plenty of pro-Moscow moles within the ranks of the VSU and if they have or had access to the information that US team is gathering there, they'd have shared it with their sources by now. Second, Russia has several satellite-tracking posts so they'll probably know what kind of spy satellites could be spying above Donbass and adjust NAF's actions accordingly by "maskirovka" or some other method which you and I are not aware of.

    I say that goes for both sides. NATO or for sure the Americans are feeding intel to the Ukrainians while Russia is feeding intel to the NAF. To quote myself earlier "Both sides have a fairly good grasp on what the other side have. The NAF releasing planned invasion routes and units to be involved was their way of telling the UAF they were on to them. This is the UAF telling the NAF "Yeah!, but we know where you live too!" Old fashion psyops!"

    The difference is that the US is not nearly as close as Russia and this is Russia's "backyard".
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:48 pm

    Odessa burns. "Gagarin Plaza", a building barely finished and unoccupied. Fire brigade struggle due to not having the correct engines.
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    Post  franco Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:56 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Odessa burns. "Gagarin Plaza", a building barely finished and unoccupied. Fire brigade struggle due to not having the correct engines.

    Read that their ladders only reach up 5 or 7 stories. Would be interesting to know who owns it, perhaps an oligarchy battle?
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:06 pm

    franco wrote:

    Read that their ladders only reach up 5 or 7 stories. Would be interesting to know who owns it, perhaps an oligarchy battle?
    Seems so, and said to be an electrical fault. I said in a post this morning that there was a possible flashpoint in Odessa today. Happened, but not the location I thought.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:14 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nazi government doing its best

    S & P predicts a decline in GDP of Ukraine by 15% in 2015

    I guess those forecaster clowns must have read the news.   They were predicting a 2% GDP drop but then Ukraine's GDP
    crashed by 17.6% as of the first quarter.   But these clowns are actually predicting that Ukraine's GDP will expand by over
    2.6% in the last three quarters of 2015.   In the real world the 2nd quarter is likely to be a net contraction on and any
    recovery will be in the second half.  

    As noted by another poster the world is in a recession (unlike in 2008 China is contributing to pulling it down) so why would
    there be any rebound in Ukraine at all?    So a more realistic forecast is for Ukraine's GDP to shrink by over 20% in 2015.

    You're the only clown here, I keep trying to explain it to you, more for the benefit others than you I guess - what these figures actually mean and how to read them.

    The economy in the first quarter was down 17.6% compared to the same period last year.
    In the 2nd quarter it was something like 14.7%. So what, according to your logic the Ukrainian economy actually grew by 2.9% in the 2nd quarter?

    No, it's just that in the 2nd quarter the Ukrainian economy was only 14.7% smaller than during the 2nd quarter of 2014 (last year); meaning that it didn't decline as fast in the 2nd quarter this year as in the 1st quarter this year; hence why the economy is as of latest figures only 14.7% smaller than it was during this period last year, as opposed to 17.6%.

    So yes, it's very plausible that the Ukrainian economy will *only* decline by 15% this year, or less.

    Oh, and don't bother accusing me of being a Western propagandist or NATO spy or whatever this time 'round. Really don't have the time for it.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:30 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    franco wrote:

    Read that their ladders only reach up 5 or 7 stories. Would be interesting to know who owns it, perhaps an oligarchy battle?
    Seems so, and said to be an electrical fault. I said in a post this morning that there was a possible flashpoint in Odessa today. Happened, but not the location I thought.

    No it didn't, nothing happened, the locals bent over and took it up the ass again. No resistance, no protests, nothing.

    Oh and there was an electrical fire in a building. The end.
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    Post  Neutrality Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:39 pm

    If the people of Odessa didn't rise up a year ago then they won't do it today. Then they shouldn't expect Russia or NAF to do it for them.
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    Post  kvs Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nazi government doing its best

    S & P predicts a decline in GDP of Ukraine by 15% in 2015

    I guess those forecaster clowns must have read the news.   They were predicting a 2% GDP drop but then Ukraine's GDP
    crashed by 17.6% as of the first quarter.   But these clowns are actually predicting that Ukraine's GDP will expand by over
    2.6% in the last three quarters of 2015.   In the real world the 2nd quarter is likely to be a net contraction on and any
    recovery will be in the second half.  

    As noted by another poster the world is in a recession (unlike in 2008 China is contributing to pulling it down) so why would
    there be any rebound in Ukraine at all?    So a more realistic forecast is for Ukraine's GDP to shrink by over 20% in 2015.

    You're the only clown here, I keep trying to explain it to you, more for the benefit others than you I guess - what these figures actually mean and how to read them.

    The economy in the first quarter was down 17.6% compared to the same period last year.
    In the 2nd quarter it was something like 14.7%. So what, according to your logic the Ukrainian economy actually grew by 2.9% in the 2nd quarter?

    No, it's just that in the 2nd quarter the Ukrainian economy was only 14.7% smaller than during the 2nd quarter of 2014 (last year); meaning that it didn't decline as fast in the 2nd quarter this year as in the 1st quarter this year; hence why the economy is as of latest figures only 14.7% smaller than it was during this period last year, as opposed to 17.6%.

    So yes, it's very plausible that the Ukrainian economy will *only* decline by 15% this year, or less.

    Oh, and don't bother accusing me of being a Western propagandist or NATO spy or whatever this time 'round. Really don't have the time for it.


    What a pompous ass you are. Bugger on off to The Mess to be with your kindred spirits.

    You can't understand basic math. The year on year GDP drop is for the full GDP and not 25% of it as you
    have claimed in every freaking post of yours on this issue. In order for Ukraine's economy to only lose 15% for all
    of 2015 it needs to experience year on year growth during the rest of the year (i.e. 3 quarters). The
    full GDP of Ukraine was down 17.6% as of April 1st. If the year on year change in GDP is zero in each of the
    three remaining quarters then as of 2015 Ukraine's GDP decline would be 17.6%/4 = 4.4%. But a year on year change
    in GDP of zero in the second quarter would require a recovery of 17.6% (adjusted for the relative fraction of the GDP
    produced each quarter, for simplicity I will assume the GDP is produce evenly between all four quarters). There is
    no way in hell that Ukraine's GDP can spring back this way.

    Also we have the problem that Ukraine's GDP was crashing in the second half of 2014. So any year on year change
    will be smaller for a trivial baseline reference reason. So let's say the GDP decline year on year is 15% in the 2nd
    quarter, 10% in the 3rd quarter and 5% in the 4th quarter. Then the 2015 GDP drop is about 12%. If the drops are
    15, 15 and 10 then we have 14.4%. Standard and Poor's, the clowns, are clearly assuming that Ukraine will
    experience no further GDP drop in 2015. Each set quarterly numbers that are required to make the 15% forecast come
    true are smaller than the year on year drop as of the end of the 1st quarter. They are clearly pulling this out of
    their biased asses, which you respect so much. Given the progressive nature of the GDP drop seen in the plot I posted
    recently, it is more likely that the year on year drop in the 2nd quarter is 20% or even higher. There is no indication
    of any Ukrainian GDP recovery.

    You can huff and puff your sanctimony till the cows come home, but S&P are making the BS assumption that the
    1st quarter was the nadir of Ukraine's economic drop and there is going to be recovery in the remaining
    three quarters.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:18 pm

    I trust what S&P and Moody's say as much as I trust a hooker with my wallet. They were the ones that helped cause the 2008 market crash, so I would say that whatever predictions they have, it is safe to throw it out into the trashbin.

    Please, don't respond to each other with insults as it doesn't help. You two are far better members here than a lot and I would wager that you two keep calm. Don't be like me, getting all pent up for little reason.
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:43 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    No it didn't, nothing happened, the locals bent over and took it up the ass again. No resistance, no protests, nothing.

    Oh and there was an electrical fire in a building. The end.
    A pity you were not pissing on Odessa when the Trades Union building was blazing as it may have helped put out the flames, but now you piss on their corpses instead.

    And the people of Kursk, Belgorod, Rostov, Krasnodar, Kharkov, Donetsk, Odessa, Kiev, Minsk and countless other occupied cities should not have expected liberation by Red Army as they did not rise up against the nazis......
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    Post  Neutrality Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:00 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    No it didn't, nothing happened, the locals bent over and took it up the ass again. No resistance, no protests, nothing.

    Oh and there was an electrical fire in a building. The end.
    A pity you were not pissing on Odessa when the Trades Union building was blazing as it may have helped put out the flames, but now you piss on their corpses instead.

    And the people of Kursk, Belgorod, Rostov, Krasnodar, Kharkov, Donetsk, Odessa, Kiev, Minsk and countless other occupied cities should not have expected liberation by Red Army as they did not rise up against the nazis......

    Which is exactly why it's a shame on them. So many lives perished just so that modern Odessitans could lay down and bend over to the neo-Nazi regime today. It's them "shitting on the corpses" of their grandparents, not us.
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:09 pm

    Erk wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nazi government doing its best

    S & P predicts a decline in GDP of Ukraine by 15% in 2015

    Economies all around the world are contracting, to get a real comparison you have to look at GDP (PPP) not nominal GDP which people like S&P default to using.

    Here is their per capita GDP (PPP) http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-per-capita-ppp

    It's less than half of what Russians, Belarusians, Polish earn. Ukraine was not doing very well by European standards, even before the junta took over the government. The economy is always being milked by the oligarchs, which holds back economic growth for the whole country. If you don't have the money to invest in plant and production because some oligarch is moving it offshore, then how can you grow?

    No ,using dollars to compare Ukraine economy is perfectly valid for Ukraine ,they will be exporting NOTHING soon ,and Importing everything from American and Europe.. So they are basically turning ukraine into an American/european colony.. you cannot compare Ukraine economy with Russia in any remote way unless you are really ignorant.. Ukraine depends on Russia for energy and its on the middle of a war too.. and as i said their business are all of them shuting down.. the only thing Ukraine will sell in the future to Europe will be land.. Ukraine will be 100% private territory ,and owned by western elite.. this means than a massive depopulation of ukraine will be needed if they want to continue in power.
    from 40 millions citizens ukraine will end with like 10 millions or less after the privatization ends. Ukraine will cease to be a country and will become  to be a western property.

    The former Georgian President told it clearly how bad things are in Ukraine ,when he took
    Odessa.. and he knows what is happening there.. he told that Ukraine will need 20 years..
    to become its economy at the level of 2013 again.. when was about to be bankrupt and was asking Russia for loans.. but at that time all Ukraine business were operating on debt ..but still operating.  So the real economy of Ukraine is at the level of African nations..  It doesn't look like
    that because Americans are Europeans are donating 10 to 15 $billions to them and holding the country so it doesn't collapse.. they are paying the salaries of the Ukraine Army.. But they will be unable to hold Ukraine for long and keep it as one Nation..   The stealing of IMF money y Oligarchs and the opposition friendly to Russia will make it impossible for Ukraine becoming completely taken...

    All that it takes for Ukraine to collapse and disband in parts is that Russia lose the patience ,and
    no longer see kiev that can be pressured into peace by Europe.. using plan B.. and that is creating a new front in other cities , that is new armed insurrection in other cities.. That will force Ukraine to split its army the Kharkiv fron will require a far bigger front line than the one they have in Donetsk and lugansk.. Simply Ukraine cannot survive with armed insurgent that Russia can easily arm.. in many other cites.. in a full scale civil war.  

    A new front in Kharkiv ,another in Mariupol ,another in Odessa and armed insurgents in Kiev too
    will bring down the whole Ukraine Government.. they will flee ,knowing that Russia is officially at war with them.. but in an undeclared war. and that they have no chance to hold retake the cities.   Russia of course will deny any participation ,but they will be forced to bring down Ukraine government if the leadership and United States continues fueling the civil war.

    The the assassination of Poroshenko and any leader in parliament will be very very easy..
    for Russia ,once Ukraine officially declares war against Russia and start shelling their cities.
    No american CIA will save poroshenko , a simple iskander missile will finish him and the CIA thugs defending him.  

    Ukraine is an already Bankrupt nation and thinking it have any economy left and comparing it
    with Russia is complete ignorance of their real economy conditions or how Americans and Europe are using real money , IMF loans and US congress money to keep Ukraine alive. IF americans give up now with Ukraine, Ukraine declare bankrupt tomorrow. but it will be a total
    collapse because they will have no business left . Everyone with something of cash will move to Europe or Russia.

    Again you cannot remotely compare Ukraine with Russia economy ,because Russia is standing with its own economy and Ukraine its being carried by Americans and Europeans for a temporary time.. they receive about $10 to $15 billions per year from the IMF and other help.. with salaries of 100% of Ukraine politicians paid by the west ,remove that help and they will need to layoff everyone in Government.  None of that money Ukraine receive will be paid. Americans knows that.. but it doesn't care.. all it wants is to get Ukraine to fight Russia to have
    a pretext to pressure Europe to cut all economic relations with them. So claiming Ukraine economy is half of Russia is ludicrous and pure idiocy.  try better with African poorest nations.. like Ethipia. Last i hear the Ukraine army was paid ~$100 dollars a month. But they need to buy their food , so most of the money they get is wasted in their own needs. So effectively even third world nations in Africa are better paid their army ,they at least have money left for family food. The Ukrainian army make money stealing property from people...and in bribes from civilians to allow them leave the country or by selling their weapons to the very same side they fighting.  lol   and for civilians is not better ,you have not see the long lines of people for free food in ukraine.. in Short you are completely wrong. You cannot compare Ukraine economy with any nation other than Third world African countries in the middle of a war. like SUdan or somalia..   Is not as Bad as Lybia because at least they have a central Government and Americans using all their resources to keep the nation in one piece .. but it will be like that once Poroshenko removed by force.

    Using GDP for comparisons is perfectly valid when a country stop producing anything locally and ,shut down its local business and becomes mostly an importer of western products including food.

    Ukraine's GDP Dropped by 35% Surpassing Zimbabwe, Central African Republic

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150823/1026104480/ukraine-gdp-economy-decrease-world-bank-independence.html



    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:49 pm; edited 4 times in total
    Khepesh
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 30 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:24 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    No it didn't, nothing happened, the locals bent over and took it up the ass again. No resistance, no protests, nothing.

    Oh and there was an electrical fire in a building. The end.
    A pity you were not pissing on Odessa when the Trades Union building was blazing as it may have helped put out the flames, but now you piss on their corpses instead.

    And the people of Kursk, Belgorod, Rostov, Krasnodar, Kharkov, Donetsk, Odessa, Kiev, Minsk and countless other occupied cities should not have expected liberation by Red Army as they did not rise up against the nazis......

    Which is exactly why it's a shame on them. So many lives perished just so that modern Odessitans could lay down and bend over to the neo-Nazi regime today. It's them "shitting on the corpses" of their grandparents, not us.
    Odessa is a Russian city that has suffered de facto occupation due to the assholes Gorbachev and Yeltsin and should be liberated no matter the actions or inactions of the population. That the citizens of Odessa, after having suffered a massacre and intense pressure from SBU, have not risen is not an excuse to insult them and to let them remain occupied. Again, did the cities of the Soviet Union occupied by the nazis not deserve liberation because they did not rise? Should the western border of Russia be on a line from Saint Petersburg, Voronezh, Volgograd because the cities west of that line did not rise?
    Neutrality
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 30 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Neutrality Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:40 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    No it didn't, nothing happened, the locals bent over and took it up the ass again. No resistance, no protests, nothing.

    Oh and there was an electrical fire in a building. The end.
    A pity you were not pissing on Odessa when the Trades Union building was blazing as it may have helped put out the flames, but now you piss on their corpses instead.

    And the people of Kursk, Belgorod, Rostov, Krasnodar, Kharkov, Donetsk, Odessa, Kiev, Minsk and countless other occupied cities should not have expected liberation by Red Army as they did not rise up against the nazis......

    Which is exactly why it's a shame on them. So many lives perished just so that modern Odessitans could lay down and bend over to the neo-Nazi regime today. It's them "shitting on the corpses" of their grandparents, not us.
    Odessa is a Russian city that has suffered de facto occupation due to the assholes Gorbachev and Yeltsin and should be liberated no matter the actions or inactions of the population. That the citizens of Odessa, after having suffered a massacre and intense pressure from SBU, have not risen is not an excuse to insult them and to let them remain occupied. Again, did the cities of the Soviet Union occupied by the nazis not deserve liberation because they did not rise? Should the western border of Russia be on a line from Saint Petersburg, Voronezh, Volgograd because the cities west of that line did not rise?

    The situation today is entirely different. These cities were captured by a foreign country through military means. War broke out. Today the scenario is different and they could have risen up EASILY against an internal enemy. Ever heard about the will of a single man? Well here the will of many men would have been sufficient, especially after the Trade Union massacre. That moment should have sparked patriotic feelings within every person who considers himself a Russian but they didn't. I'm not insulting the history or the Odessitants here. I'm criticizing their laziness.

    /rant over
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:59 pm


    It's been over a year and not a single UAF, SBU, Azov or some other corpse hit the ground in Odessa. Not one. People were roasted alive and brave people of Odessa did not do jack shit.

    UAF and other Nazis still walk the streets like they own the place and they do.

    NAF should liberate Novorossia but as for Odessa, why should others bleed for them? Maybe if they made an effort to kill at least one Nazi they could at least pretend to deserve liberation.

    Kill just one Nazi, is it too much to ask after more than a year?

    And would NAF even be considered liberator by Odessans? Or by any other city outside Novo? Me thinks not...

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 30 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:09 pm

    Neutrality wrote:

    The situation today is entirely different. These cities were captured by a foreign country through military means. War broke out. Today the scenario is different and they could have risen up EASILY against an internal enemy. Ever heard about the will of a single man? Well here the will of many men would have been sufficient, especially after the Trade Union massacre. That moment should have sparked patriotic feelings within every person who considers himself a Russian but they didn't. I'm not insulting the history or the Odessitants here. I'm criticizing their laziness.

    /rant over
    There was no leadership and they cannot be blamed for that. To create an uprising, a pre-existing structure under a strong leader needs to be in place, or able to move to were needed. There was only one Strelkov with a pre-existing structure around him, yet he, or somebody like him, was needed in Odessa, Kharkov and Mariupol. People simply will not rise without a leader, of if they do it is as a temporary mob that is easily dealt with. Any rising needs some planning, yet there was no warning of what was to come, and then it was too late and potential leaders arrested or fled before the inevitable. The fact that many people thought Russia would directly intervene is also a very important factor, and who will take risks if they think there is no need.

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