Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+57
Airbornewolf
auslander
PhSt
owais.usmani
TMA1
ATLASCUB
Odin of Ossetia
Krepost
George1
Singular_Transform
Hannibal Barca
sundoesntrise
andalusia
Azi
mr_hd
wilhelm
Finty
headshot69
Rodion_Romanovic
Scorpius
nomadski
littlerabbit
jhelb
Karl Haushofer
Sujoy
Firebird
zorobabel
Tsavo Lion
franco
Backman
Nemo
lancelot
SeigSoloyvov
AZ-5
d_taddei2
calripson
RTN
bitcointrader70
Urluber
Hole
Godric
LMFS
miketheterrible
kvs
JohninMK
thegopnik
Arkanghelsk
Arrow
PapaDragon
GarryB
lyle6
flamming_python
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
VARGR198
medo
ALAMO
dino00
61 posters

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 12987
    Points : 13134
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Kanada

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  kvs Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:44 pm

    NATzO knows that Russia is not going to invade the abortion called Ukria. It is just whipping up hysteria in its credulous
    sheeple that this is going to happen to adopt an aggressive military posture against Russia. NATzO is engaged in war
    propaganda. History is going on the trajectory of the last 1000 years. Once again we have a new drang nach osten
    by western crusaders. U-rope always "unifies" to attack.

    par far likes this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3309
    Points : 3554
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  par far Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:20 pm

    This is a documentary that was made in September but its worth watching in full.



    Airbornewolf likes this post

    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  dino00 Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:24 am

    Russian officials keep repeating that Russia is not going to invade anywhere. At the same time, they make it clear that they will not leave unanswered a possible offensive by the Ukrainian armed forces in Donbass or a provocation against the civilian population of the unrecognized republics of Donetsk and Lugansk.

    Kommersant's interlocutors in the state structures of the Russian Federation say that various ideas are being discussed, including, for example, the recognition of the independence of these entities with the official introduction of the Russian armed forces there. However, more radical ideas are being discussed behind closed doors.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5154624

    russia paratrooper

    AlfaT8, par far, kvs, littlerabbit and Hole like this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3309
    Points : 3554
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  par far Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pm

    The Americans have just thrown the Europeans and the Ukrainians under the bus. And the Americans will negotiate with Russia directly leaving out the Europeans and Ukrainians. Europeans and Ukrainians will be bought in the 2nd meeting and the 3rd meeting respectively.

    January 9-11 - The Big Boys, the Big Super Powers, Russia and the USA will negotiate in Geneva.

    January 12- The "EU NATO Allies" will be brought in and told what the Big Boys have talked about/Decided. This is in Brussels. The Americans and Russians will be here.

    January 13- Ukrainians will be bought in and told what to do. This is in Brussels. The Americans and Russians will be here.

    AlfaT8, kvs, littlerabbit and Arkanghelsk like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 9568
    Points : 9554
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  Isos Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:42 am

    My opinion : Russia asked guarantees it knows very well US would never accept and they said they won't negociate. So they are very likely going to take ovee Ukraine or bomb the shit out of them to make it of no use for NATO.

    miketheterrible likes this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3309
    Points : 3554
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  par far Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:42 am


    kvs and miketheterrible like this post

    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible


    Posts : 7403
    Points : 7377
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  miketheterrible Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:11 am

    Thanks Par Far. I haven't seen a video from him in a long time.

    par far likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33549
    Points : 34063
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:44 am

    Russia does not want the Ukraine, not if the population is hostile to them being there.

    If they wanted to seize Ukraine and bomb them they could have also taken Georgia too in a similar manner which would have solved problems with Armenias isolation from them.

    Russia was overjoyed at saakashvilis stupidity, and they will be just as happy if Zelensky is stupid enough to attack too because then the solution is easy... beat back the aggressor, set up peace keeping forces while the locals have a referendum on what they want to do and I would say most of the time they will want independence from the country that just tried to murder them... it is just a given.

    Russia then allows the locals to form all the entities they need to operate as an independent region... provide security guarantees and then withdraw most of the forces leaving a token force to assure the locals if the dickheads try anything again they wont be abandoned.

    Open border for trade and let the small new region trade and grow and develop on its own... if they work they improve their lot... if they expect handouts they will shrivel up.

    Russia does not need to financial burden of having to fix all of the Ukraine and if they invaded they would feel obligated to do so. The west could care less their proxy cannon fodder front line meat shield is dying... they are there to justify perpetual sanctions against Russia.

    dino00, par far, kvs, Isos and miketheterrible like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 1924
    Points : 1926
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:33 am

    Isos wrote:My opinion : Russia asked guarantees it knows very well US would never accept and they said they won't negociate. So they are very likely going to take ovee Ukraine or bomb the shit out of them to make it of no use for NATO.

    They won't.
    As I said, Ukraine presents no asset for them other than human resources.
    Those are already heavily depleted.
    I know that some of you may not believe just hearing that, because it is something unbelievable to be honest, but they REALLY lost 1/3rd of the population in the just 7 years.
    Everybody who has two hands and a head, and wants to work & live a normal life, is gone.
    Even the eastern part of Ukr, the most pro-Russian, is still split in half. That was the situation when they pretended the 2014 referendums&votings, and that only deepened.
    Even when Putin is addressing the closing of NATO to Moscow ... well, he has clue, but the clue is irrelevant.
    It is all flexing the muscles, and a try to catch as much as they can, as long they have an obvious military edge.
    Owning the Kaliningrad, they have the possibility to deploy striking means 1.5 min from Warsaw, 3 minutes from Berlin, and 5 minutes from London and Paris.
    Iskanders are already there, who would forbid them to build "USKS Ashore" and fill it up with Cirkons?
    The only real difference to them is the fact, that it won't change the potential of striking targets in the CONUS.
    But they can keep in a safe distance a routine patrol of 885M soon enough not to bother.

    GarryB, Arrow and JohninMK like this post

    medo
    medo


    Posts : 4367
    Points : 4449
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  medo Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:06 pm



    Ukrainian TV reporting about hunger in Ukraine.

    kvs likes this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 12987
    Points : 13134
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Kanada

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  kvs Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:42 pm

    It's called karma. They have been spewing blood libel about the Holodomor and now have managed to bring hunger
    on themselves thanks to the same syndrome of hate against Russia. Ukrian nazionalists are truly the scum of the Earth.


    flamming_python and dino00 like this post

    VARGR198
    VARGR198


    Posts : 383
    Points : 387
    Join date : 2015-08-09

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  VARGR198 Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:09 pm

    medo wrote:

    Ukrainian TV reporting about hunger in Ukraine.

    No auto translate on this video. Anyone know exactly what is said?
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 1924
    Points : 1926
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:12 pm

    What is to be expected.
    The girl starts with a Kievian restaurant, where the NY Eve menu is caviar&French champagne. The average cost for a table - $1000.
    Then she visits some "milionnik", that is a million citizens city. If you ask me, it is Charkow.
    Some statistics, that 9 MILLION of Ukr citizens are hungry, according to UNICEF data, and 1 MILLION are starving.
    Pensions in a range od 2600-3500 UAH, that is $100-150.
    The enormous cost of living, including communal payments & heating.
    Out of 3200UAH pension (6:30) 2600UAH is the cost of app only.
    3500UAH pensions and 2500UAH of app costs (7:00).
    The "3D" concept of living - "dojedajem, dozywajem, donaszajem", what translates to eating what is possible to get, living waiting for the end of life, and wearing the clothes you owned for years. No hope.
    They can afford eating potatoes, bread and kasha. No meat in diet, too expensive. Some of them claim that forgot the taste already.
    One of babushkas is telling, that for Xmas she will be visited by her friends that live in a village, so the will bring some food, maybe even a hen for a soup.
    The food they get, need to be divided for smaller portions and feed them for several days.
    In general, it is the picture of Russian Federation in the early 90s, with just the same stories.


    flamming_python, kvs, VARGR198, miketheterrible, LMFS and Finty like this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 12987
    Points : 13134
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Kanada

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  kvs Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:46 pm

    Zelensky is shown boasting that the Ukr GDP has increased to a level higher than before "independence".
    He must mean 2014 and his claim is a total lie.   The Ukrian GDP crashed by 30% between 2013 and 2015.
    We have discussed this on this board already and some dismissed it.   Well, the Donbass was 25% of Ukria's
    GDP and Ukria lost its Russian export market which accounted for about 30% of its exports.   The GDP is
    not homogeneously distributed in a country.   So it cannot be scaled by the fractional population of Ukria
    without the Donbass and Crimea.  

    The World Bank is running propaganda cover for Ukria.   Rather obvious considering it is a NATzO dominated
    institution.   Ukria's GDP is likely 50% of what it was in 2013.   The systematic contraction of rump Ukria's
    industries since 2014 is ongoing.   Ukria now has to import food even though its claim to fame was being
    a bread basket.   Video game development and internet economics are not saving it.   So the UNICEF
    numbers are highly dubious.   They rely on Kiev regime statistics which are clearly fake.

    There was a window in 2014 when the Ukrian statistics agency was still reporting real numbers (giving us
    a good source for the 30% GDP drop) but then magically from late 2015 everything got rosy.   Total faking
    of the numbers.   The Kiev regime requires such faking to stay in power and anyone who doubts this is
    an idiot.

    par far, VARGR198, LMFS and Hole like this post

    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 257
    Points : 265
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:00 pm

    Isos wrote:My opinion : Russia asked guarantees it knows very well US would never accept and they said they won't negociate. So they are very likely going to take ovee Ukraine or bomb the shit out of them to make it of no use for NATO.

    Today is different from 2008. Georgia was far enough away. Remember Putin's words: "We know the state of your (US) development on supersonic missiles. We know when you will have them. You will not deploy them tomorrow. No, but they will give them to the fascists in Ukraine on their behalf. They will then be only 4 minutes away from Moscow. We can no longer withdraw. "What does that mean? Well, that he either gets credible full guarantees and that quickly (day X is already fixed today) or he will have to make an occupation on day X with all the consequences. Means to Poland 25km buffer zone, lake and air blockade until there are guarantees and if not he will regulate it militarily. Better isolation and sanctions instead of fascists in 2035 with hypersonic missiles and CIA weapons control officers who then wipe out Moscow in 4 minutes. No thank you!

    kvs, VARGR198 and Hole like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 6852
    Points : 6930
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:41 pm

    kvs wrote:Zelensky is shown boasting that the Ukr GDP has increased to a level higher than before "independence".
    He must mean 2014 and his claim is a total lie.   The Ukrian GDP crashed by 30% between 2013 and 2015.
    We have discussed this on this board already and some dismissed it.   Well, the Donbass was 25% of Ukria's
    GDP and Ukria lost its Russian export market which accounted for about 30% of its exports.   The GDP is
    not homogeneously distributed in a country.   So it cannot be scaled by the fractional population of Ukria
    without the Donbass and Crimea.  

    The World Bank is running propaganda cover for Ukria.   Rather obvious considering it is a NATzO dominated
    institution.   Ukria's GDP is likely 50% of what it was in 2013.   The systematic contraction of rump Ukria's
    industries since 2014 is ongoing.   Ukria now has to import food even though its claim to fame was being
    a bread basket.   Video game development and internet economics are not saving it.   So the UNICEF
    numbers are highly dubious.   They rely on Kiev regime statistics which are clearly fake.

    There was a window in 2014 when the Ukrian statistics agency was still reporting real numbers (giving us
    a good source for the 30% GDP drop) but then magically from late 2015 everything got rosy.   Total faking
    of the numbers.   The Kiev regime requires such faking to stay in power and anyone who doubts this is
    an idiot.

    Well it's all pretty obvious even by the statistics

    kvs and VARGR198 like this post

    Krepost
    Krepost


    Posts : 474
    Points : 474
    Join date : 2021-12-07

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  Krepost Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:08 pm

    From Tale of Bygone Years, the chronicle of Kievan Rus:

    Around the year 882:
    Disguised as a merchantman and together with Rurik's still young son Igor, Knyaz Oleg of Novgorod sailed on the Dniepr and docked into the pier in Kiev. Eager to trade, the city's self-proclaimed princes Askold and Dir who had seized the power there years ago came to meet the boat at the dock.
    "You are no Prince" said Oleg upon disembarking. "Here is the son of Rurik, he is the real prince of this land"... He slayed both Askold and Dir.
    By doing so, Knyaz Oleg laid the foundation of the powerful state of Kievan Rus with Kiev as its capital for centuries to come...

    History will repeat itself.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 1924
    Points : 1926
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:21 pm

    I feel personally ashamed, if any of you find that funny.
    It is not.
    We are talking millions of decent citizens and humans, living in a miserable state, because someone found it funny,
    Dont be "someone".
    Those people worked hard, for years, for its country.
    We should respect them, first of all.

    miketheterrible likes this post

    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 34
    Location : portugal

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  dino00 Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:28 pm

    ALAMO wrote:I feel personally ashamed, if any of you find that funny.
    It is not.
    We are talking millions of decent citizens and humans, living in a miserable state, because someone found it funny,
    Dont be "someone".
    Those people worked hard, for years, for its country.
    We should respect them, first of all.

    What are you talking about?
    Where are the laughs?
    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 745
    Points : 751
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  thegopnik Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:14 am

    despite being more poor than Kosovo and suffering from hunger, I am more upset hoping that escort costs would be cheaper from what I am looking at and the services I want in case I was to visit the country and help out other ways financially Sad  https://kievescort.club/ atleast they have covid and hiv medical results of them

    EDIT: never mind https://vip-popki.net/prostitutka-kiev/ there actually is something worth invading Ukraine for.......Cheaper prices over there than back at home Very Happy
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 12331
    Points : 12391
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:18 am

    thegopnik wrote:...EDIT: never mind https://vip-popki.net/prostitutka-kiev/ there actually is something worth invading Ukraine for.......Cheaper prices over there than back at home Very Happy

    In this case you want to go with most expensive option available, hygiene is important and usually comes with far superior looking product

    thegopnik likes this post

    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 1223
    Points : 1223
    Join date : 2020-09-13
    Location : Philippines

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  lyle6 Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:11 am

    Or better yet, just go with the Russian Army when they conduct their long overdue health and safety inspection, and even bag yourself a war bride or two.

    thegopnik likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 33549
    Points : 34063
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:34 am

    The problem is that the people who created the situation are not the ones who are suffering its consequences, so it is the same old same old...

    The US puts harsh sanctions on Cuba to punish the government there and it is the people who suffer and struggle because of it... same in Venzuela and North Korea and Iran.

    For Russia the suffering of the people from western sanctions were limited and short lived and the results have been greater independence and more Russian products on offer for Russian customers instead of just foreign crap.

    It is hard not to feel sorry for these people in the Ukraine, but then we know of one old babushka that worked for the Ukrainians in the Crimea and was caught... I wont feel sorry for her if they sent her "home".

    Hannibal Barca, kvs and Finty like this post

    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 1429
    Points : 1423
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  Arrow Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:25 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    The only real difference to them is the fact, that it won't change the potential of striking targets in the CONUS.
    But they can keep in a safe distance a routine patrol of 885M soon enough not to bother.

    They can also deploy missile weapons in Chukotka or Kamchatka. Thanks to hypersonic weapons, they can hit ABM installations in Alaska very quickly. Additionally, it is about 4000 km to the West Coast of the USA, so they can put some IRBM or even a GLCM like Calibr M. CONUS there, is very poorly protected against cruise missiles. An IRBM can be built, the final stage of which will be the Cirkon missile Very Happy
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 1924
    Points : 1926
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  ALAMO Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:26 am

    GarryB wrote:The problem is that the people who created the situation are not the ones who are suffering its consequences, so it is the same old same old...
    The US puts harsh sanctions on Cuba to punish the government there and it is the people who suffer and struggle because of it... same in Venzuela and North Korea and Iran.
    For Russia the suffering of the people from western sanctions were limited and short lived and the results have been greater independence and more Russian products on offer for Russian customers instead of just foreign crap.
    It is hard not to feel sorry for these people in the Ukraine, but then we know of one old babushka that worked for the Ukrainians in the Crimea and was caught... I wont feel sorry for her if they sent her "home".

    Because it is a real goal of sanctions. To make the population starve, leading to unrests and revolts against it's rulers.
    It is a mainstay of the theory.

    flamming_python, Hannibal Barca, kvs and JohninMK like this post


    Sponsored content


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:27 am