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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Tue 25 Aug 2015, 19:39

    Khepesh wrote:Kiev denied that VVS had made an incursion into Ukraine airspace today. But the reports from Schastye originated from an ex Kiev junta minister who is now a "soldier" at the front at Schastye. If the reports from Gorlovka are true, then I would think that perhaps if any aircraft were flying then they were UAF and for some reason they deny it, and Russia is silent. The ex minister, Dmitry Bulatov, was unable to say what type of aircraft he saw, so I doubt that he would have been able to see what markings they had, if they existed.

    World works in odd ways. There was talk of "where is Zakharchenko" then a few hours later he is said to have been in Debaltsevo talking about coal and food production and distribution. Perhaps at the same time Plotnitskiy was a few km along the road in Stakhanov talking about Aleksei Grigorevich.....     Anyway, also talk of "where is Pavel Dremov" and now he appears to talk about possibility of massive provocation by ukrops. So, where is Zhukov? and lets wait to see when he appears, soon.....

    Ukrops testing Donbass' air space to see if they get locked on maybe? Just to be sure whether or not the NAF have AA capability. I guess the Ukrops know they do but perhaps they want to know where precisely.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue 25 Aug 2015, 19:42

    Neutrality wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Kiev denied that VVS had made an incursion into Ukraine airspace today. But the reports from Schastye originated from an ex Kiev junta minister who is now a "soldier" at the front at Schastye. If the reports from Gorlovka are true, then I would think that perhaps if any aircraft were flying then they were UAF and for some reason they deny it, and Russia is silent. The ex minister, Dmitry Bulatov, was unable to say what type of aircraft he saw, so I doubt that he would have been able to see what markings they had, if they existed.

    World works in odd ways. There was talk of "where is Zakharchenko" then a few hours later he is said to have been in Debaltsevo talking about coal and food production and distribution. Perhaps at the same time Plotnitskiy was a few km along the road in Stakhanov talking about Aleksei Grigorevich.....     Anyway, also talk of "where is Pavel Dremov" and now he appears to talk about possibility of massive provocation by ukrops. So, where is Zhukov? and lets wait to see when he appears, soon.....

    Ukrops testing Donbass' air space to see if they get locked on maybe? Just to be sure whether or not the NAF have AA capability. I guess the Ukrops know they do but perhaps they want to know where precisely.

    Probably a recon flight (Su24), probing could be a possibility.
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    Post  Khepesh Tue 25 Aug 2015, 20:12

    Reports of mysterious aircraft were more widespread than I said in my initial post as there were also reports from Pervomaisk and along the front, also photos of obvious contrails over Lugansk. Everybody denies everything of course.
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    Post  Rodinazombie Tue 25 Aug 2015, 20:22

    Khepesh wrote:Reports of mysterious aircraft were more widespread than I said in my initial post as there were also reports from Pervomaisk and along the front, also photos of obvious contrails over Lugansk. Everybody denies everything of course.

    With the amount of cameras around i wont be believing anything until i see ukie aircraft on video
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    Post  medo Tue 25 Aug 2015, 20:37

    One thing is sure, this is not a Russian plane. If it was, you could already see whole hysteria, how Russian air force intrude in Ukrainian air space and Russian aggression, etc. The plane is most probably Ukrainian or maybe from US/NATO. In that case those contrails could be something to worry about, as they could be chemtrails from US planes, which they spread in the sky to make a weather attack on Novorussia with HAARP instalation in Croatia. Unfortunately, Novorussia doesn't have long range SAMs or fighter jets, that they could shot it down. I hope they will take some examples of those trails, when they fall on the ground or after rain, to check the metals inside.
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    Post  sepheronx Tue 25 Aug 2015, 20:39

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:What is funny is that Germany's strongest time, in terms of military and influence, was when it was sanctioned by nearly the world, its economy was in shatters, and they re-orientated towards domestic development and a form of Autarky.  That was Nazi Germany.  Funny, that in its hardest times economically, it was its military and technical strongest.  Seems that is what is happening to Russia.  They are re-orientating their economy.  Expanding Russian companies abroad, building new relations with old partners from Asia, Latin America to Africa.  And now re-orientating its economy to domestic as most are speculating.

    Funny, that you missed that the re-armament was bankrupting Germany or how the Nazis damaged the German science community.

    German science industry was thriving during the war. Maybe just the byproduct. Germany was already bankrupt due to the damages and economic blockade after the first world war. Effectively, they became a successful autarky.
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    Post  zg18 Tue 25 Aug 2015, 20:49

    Armor losses , courtesy of lost.armor.info

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 22 7195205

    VSU (Ukrainian armed forces) lost 1101 pieces of armor , of which 698 were destroyed and 403 captured.

    These are quite serious losses , and all proven by photos from lost.armor.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue 25 Aug 2015, 21:04

    sepheronx wrote:German science industry was thriving during the war. Maybe just the byproduct. Germany was already bankrupt due to the damages and economic blockade after the first world war. Effectively, they became a successful autarky.
    German science industry? What the hell is that?

    Nazis completely crippled German science. The golden age of German science was during the Imperial and Weimar era when German universities were considered the best in the world and produced most (75% or more) of all Noble Prize winners. When Nazis came to power all universities became highly politicized, entire fields of study were banned (quantum mechanics, replaced by pseudoscientifi "Aryan physics") and 1/3 of intellectual elite (Jews) was either killed or fled. Main scientific advancements of Nazis were in arms design - and little besides that.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue 25 Aug 2015, 21:29

    Khepesh wrote:Reports of mysterious aircraft were more widespread than I said in my initial post as there were also reports from Pervomaisk and along the front, also photos of obvious contrails over Lugansk. Everybody denies everything of course.

    Pretty sure RU army and NAF knew about this well in advance. And if by some miracle they didn't, they sure as hell do now.

    If ukrops wanted to do some probing they screwed themselves over by tipping their hand. There goes element of surprise.

    UAF amateur hour continues...
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    Post  sepheronx Tue 25 Aug 2015, 21:46

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:German science industry was thriving during the war. Maybe just the byproduct. Germany was already bankrupt due to the damages and economic blockade after the first world war. Effectively, they became a successful autarky.
    German science industry? What the hell is that?

    Nazis completely crippled German science. The golden age of German science was during the Imperial and Weimar era when German universities were considered the best in the world and produced most (75% or more) of all Noble Prize winners. When Nazis came to power all universities became highly politicized, entire fields of study were banned (quantum mechanics, replaced by pseudoscientifi "Aryan physics") and 1/3 of intellectual elite (Jews) was either killed or fled. Main scientific advancements of Nazis were in arms design - and little besides that.

    So that is why German scientists were so sought after the war? Face it, German science was a powerhouse (more so then than now). Father of US space program, look him up.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue 25 Aug 2015, 22:46

    2,510 Maidan soldiers killed as of August 4
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    Post  Godric Tue 25 Aug 2015, 22:55

    sepheronx wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:German science industry was thriving during the war. Maybe just the byproduct. Germany was already bankrupt due to the damages and economic blockade after the first world war. Effectively, they became a successful autarky.
    German science industry? What the hell is that?

    Nazis completely crippled German science. The golden age of German science was during the Imperial and Weimar era when German universities were considered the best in the world and produced most (75% or more) of all Noble Prize winners. When Nazis came to power all universities became highly politicized, entire fields of study were banned (quantum mechanics, replaced by pseudoscientifi "Aryan physics") and 1/3 of intellectual elite (Jews) was either killed or fled. Main scientific advancements of Nazis were in arms design - and little besides that.

    So that is why German scientists were so sought after the war? Face it, German science was a powerhouse (more so then than now). Father of US space program, look him up.

    you are thinking of Von Braun .... you forgot Fanta ... developed during WW2 by Coca Cola Germany as it could no longer make Coca Cola so they came up with Fanta
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue 25 Aug 2015, 23:03

    Yawn we have to wait until October for Minsk 2 to end. Zacharchenko will never hold election along with the rest of Ukraine in October.
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    Post  Khepesh Wed 26 Aug 2015, 00:28

    Ukrops pushed over the frontline and attacked Belaya Kamenka again. Fighting for two hours. This not the popcorn moment. But when it comes it may not be a dramatic bombardment and tank assault, it may begin small scale to make command think it is yet another minor incursion.

    And this news about Greece beginning to evacuate ethnic Greeks from Mariupol. It's been occupied by ukrops for more than a year, come close to being taken last September, yet only now they evacuate. Does not make sense unless Athens is sure there is going to be a war soon, perhaps started by a massive black flag operation against Mariupol civilians.

    And today Zakharchenko was in Snezhnoe talking about starting a factory there to produce uniforms, and about reducing prices in DNR.

    Video of the damage done to School №14 in Gorlovka. The caption says 16 but that was an error. The shells came from general direction of ukrops held Dzerzhinsk


    Last edited by Khepesh on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 00:56; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed 26 Aug 2015, 00:55

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:the mail online doing its lil' magic.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205754/Blood-oozed-soil-grave-sites-pits-alive-secrets-Ukraine-s-shameful-Holocaust-Bullets-killing-centre-1-6million-Jews-executed.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

    Right on time for Ukropia Galore!
    Interesting article. Conspicuous by its absence is virtually any comment on the activities of the local non Jews in this operation. It didn't take them long to close comments on it!

    A sign of what was to come under the Germans was seen in the Lviv Pogrom of June 1941 immediately after the Nazi entered the city after pushing out the Red Army. A Ukrainian mob, eagerly backed by the new occupiers, stripped and beat Jewish women in the streets who were subjected to public humiliation. This was part of an orgy of anti-Semitic violence that included beatings and killings which led to the deaths of 4,000 Jews in Lviv (also known as Lvov), which is 31 miles south-east of Rava Ruska.

    'The topic of the Holocaust was almost banned in Soviet times,' Mikhail Tyaglyy, historian of the Ukrainian Centre of Holocaust Study, told MailOnline.

    For modern Ukraine the subject is difficult, too, because it means admitting a role for nationalists in colluding the Nazis, in part because some preferred a German occupation to Stalin's as the lesser of two evils. Soviet history neglected the anti-Semitic aspect of the Jewish killings, lumping these deaths together with total losses in the USSR.



    Then there is this, my highlight.


    'It is true that the local population did cooperate with German Nazis in the occupied territories but the majority of them were ethnic Russian.

    'Russia makes a point about Ukrainian nationalists because it is keen to divert suspicion from itself.'

    The notion of Ukrainian nationalists colluding with the Nazis was a vivid horror played on by Soviet propaganda, and now seized on again by the Russian authorities in branding 'fascist' those who currently want to be outside Moscow's sphere of control.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205754/Blood-oozed-soil-grave-sites-pits-alive-secrets-Ukraine-s-shameful-Holocaust-Bullets-killing-centre-1-6million-Jews-executed.html#ixzz3jmA4CZwm




    Yeah that's why i posted the link. they should make up their mind. Majority of Ukrainains are Ethnic Russians or Ukraine is actually Russia.


    We are touching the topic of Ukrainian nationalism here and it is a complicated matter. The situation in Ukraine was not so different to what was going on in other Soviet regions which were occupied by Nazis - everywhere they relied on local nationalists, who often blamed Jews for supporting the "Moscow-Bolshevik regime", as they said at the time. 'Such attitude easily inspired pogroms as we had in Western Ukraine. 'The Nazis did their best to inspire pogroms everywhere they came. But pogroms is one thing, and systematic extermination of the Jewish population which was organised purely by the German Nazis is another. 'It is true that radical nationalists helped Nazis in guarding and performed other tasks. But Nazis did not trust mass killing of Jews to locals.' wrote:

    That's a lie. There are videos online proving otherwise.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed 26 Aug 2015, 01:09

    Maidan gets first batch of coal from Russia in September. Not sure if for free. This is an emergency supply to prevent economic collapse in Ukraine. If Maidan collapses, then fascists would oust Poroshenko.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/centrenergo-to-get-first-batches-of-russian-coal-by-sept-396527.html

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150825/1026178692/ukraine-russia-coal.html
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed 26 Aug 2015, 01:40

    Okay so where is Zackarchenko?
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    Post  JohninMK Wed 26 Aug 2015, 01:40

    Hard to believe this. It is the Dutch criminal investigation and even now, after several months work, they still don't know what shot MH-17 down. Surely they must have samples of the incoming 'bits' that did the damage and can tell what they are? It does however seem to look increasingly like they do not have a slam dunk case against the Buk and that is clearly giving them a bit of a problem.

    Investigators believe that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was most likely hit by a surface-to-air missile, though the possibility of the plane being downed by an air-to-air missile cannot be excluded, a spokesman for the Dutch Public Prosecution Service said Tuesday.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Wim de Bruin told RIA Novosti that the criminal investigation of the crash is very complex as it has to be concluded in a conflict zone, and the crash site was long inaccessible for investigators. "The Joint Investigation team is focusing on several scenarios. The most likely is the one in which the MH17 was downed by a ground-to-air missile. But there are still [other] scenarios that can't be excluded. For example the air-to-air scenario," Wim de Bruin told RIA Novosti.

    Kiev blamed the Donbass independence supporters in eastern Ukraine for shooting down the plane. However, Donbass militia insisted that they did not possess weapons capable of bringing down an aircraft flying at 32,000 feet. Russia has repeatedly stressed the importance of a transparent international investigation into the tragedy.

    The Dutch Safety Board is due to release a final report on the tragedy in October 2015.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20150825/1026173395.html#ixzz3jqwux8VF
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    Post  JohninMK Wed 26 Aug 2015, 01:43

    Flagship Victory wrote:Okay so where is Zackarchenko?
    You ought to read the other posts in the thread.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed 26 Aug 2015, 01:45

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Kiev denied that VVS had made an incursion into Ukraine airspace today. But the reports from Schastye originated from an ex Kiev junta minister who is now a "soldier" at the front at Schastye. If the reports from Gorlovka are true, then I would think that perhaps if any aircraft were flying then they were UAF and for some reason they deny it, and Russia is silent. The ex minister, Dmitry Bulatov, was unable to say what type of aircraft he saw, so I doubt that he would have been able to see what markings they had, if they existed.

    World works in odd ways. There was talk of "where is Zakharchenko" then a few hours later he is said to have been in Debaltsevo talking about coal and food production and distribution. Perhaps at the same time Plotnitskiy was a few km along the road in Stakhanov talking about Aleksei Grigorevich.....     Anyway, also talk of "where is Pavel Dremov" and now he appears to talk about possibility of massive provocation by ukrops. So, where is Zhukov? and lets wait to see when he appears, soon.....

    Ukrops testing Donbass' air space to see if they get locked on maybe? Just to be sure whether or not the NAF have AA capability. I guess the Ukrops know they do but perhaps they want to know where precisely.

    Probably a recon flight (Su24), probing could be a possibility.
    Its clearly ATC in Kiev testing the safety of their airspace prior to releasing their airspace for civilian flights again Smile They need a new MH-17.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed 26 Aug 2015, 02:01

    What, no red lines for Kiev? We have a new phrase as well, 'fake elections'. Still not sure how they threaten Minsk tho'.

    KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Talks between leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine in Berlin on Monday focused on "red lines" Russia must not cross, a senior Ukrainian administration official said on Tuesday. "It is very important that we have discussed red lines that, if crossed, could prompt a resolute reaction from the international community, including the European Union, and this refers not only to sanctions," Konstantin Yeliseyev, deputy head of Ukraine's presidential administration, told a news briefing in Kiev.

    Yeliseyev did not specify what kind of "red lines" had been set. "This information is not yet in the public domain," he said, noting however that "one of these lines" was "holding fake elections" in east Ukraine’s self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia "should exert pressure" on leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics so that "they prevent or cancel such elections", Yeliseyev said. If local elections take place, he added, "they will not be recognized, posing a serious threat to the Minsk process."
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed 26 Aug 2015, 02:15

    JohninMK wrote:What, no red lines for Kiev? We have a new phrase as well, 'fake elections'. Still not sure how they threaten Minsk tho'.

    KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Talks between leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine in Berlin on Monday focused on "red lines" Russia must not cross, a senior Ukrainian administration official said on Tuesday. "It is very important that we have discussed red lines that, if crossed, could prompt a resolute reaction from the international community, including the European Union, and this refers not only to sanctions," Konstantin Yeliseyev, deputy head of Ukraine's presidential administration, told a news briefing in Kiev.

    Yeliseyev did not specify what kind of "red lines" had been set. "This information is not yet in the public domain," he said, noting however that "one of these lines" was "holding fake elections" in east Ukraine’s self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia "should exert pressure" on leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics so that "they prevent or cancel such elections", Yeliseyev said. If local elections take place, he added, "they will not be recognized, posing a serious threat to the Minsk process."

    So in other words, they'll say Zacharkenko's election on October 18 is fake and that ends Minsk 2.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed 26 Aug 2015, 02:42

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:What, no red lines for Kiev? We have a new phrase as well, 'fake elections'. Still not sure how they threaten Minsk tho'.

    KIEV, August 25. /TASS/. Talks between leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine in Berlin on Monday focused on "red lines" Russia must not cross, a senior Ukrainian administration official said on Tuesday. "It is very important that we have discussed red lines that, if crossed, could prompt a resolute reaction from the international community, including the European Union, and this refers not only to sanctions," Konstantin Yeliseyev, deputy head of Ukraine's presidential administration, told a news briefing in Kiev.

    Yeliseyev did not specify what kind of "red lines" had been set. "This information is not yet in the public domain," he said, noting however that "one of these lines" was "holding fake elections" in east Ukraine’s self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. Russia "should exert pressure" on leaders of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics so that "they prevent or cancel such elections", Yeliseyev said. If local elections take place, he added, "they will not be recognized, posing a serious threat to the Minsk process."

    So in other words, they'll say Zacharkenko's election on October 18 is fake and that ends Minsk 2.

    Yes but in actuality what you're hoping for is that Russia cancels these elections so that you can scream B3TRAYAL!! again, just like you did over Russia stopping Novorussia after Debaltsevo (which you only started talking about when it was clear that the offensive stopping is exactly what was about to hapen), and before that over the Minsk agreement.

    Monarchist you're a barrel of laughs mate tongue
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed 26 Aug 2015, 03:12

    flamming_python wrote:Yes but in actuality what you're hoping for is that Russia cancels these elections so that you can scream B3TRAYAL!! again, just like you did over Russia stopping Novorussia after Debaltsevo (which you only started talking about when it was clear that the offensive stopping is exactly what was about to hapen), and before that over the Minsk agreement.

    Monarchist you're a barrel of laughs mate tongue

    I'm Canadian. I want action. Minsk 2 dies in October and fighting will resume.
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    Post  whir Wed 26 Aug 2015, 03:34

    Khepesh wrote:And this news about Greece beginning to evacuate ethnic Greeks from Mariupol. It's been occupied by ukrops for more than a year, come close to being taken last September, yet only now they evacuate. Does not make sense unless Athens is sure there is going to be a war soon, perhaps started by a massive black flag operation against Mariupol civilians.
    Greece rejected alyssum for ethnic Greeks based on sketchy grounds several times before so probably most applicants have all the needed paperwork and comply with even the most absurd demands from Athens.

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