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    Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    archangelski
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    Post  archangelski on Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:27 pm

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    Post  archangelski on Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:13 am

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    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:40 pm

    Great vid

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    Post  archangelski on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:31 pm

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    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:03 pm

    archangelski wrote:Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 9 AMEiyNL

    That was a great little plane that the Soviets loved!
    The photos are quite telling on the contribution of Allied kit in helping the USSR sustaining itself during 1941 and 1942.
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    Post  archangelski on Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:41 pm

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:38 am


    That was a great little plane that the Soviets loved!
    The photos are quite telling on the contribution of Allied kit in helping the USSR sustaining itself during 1941 and 1942.

    The Soviets did like the Aircobra but they used it as an air to air interceptor and not a ground attack aircraft like the west thought they did.

    Most of the material supplied in 41-42 was second rate cast offs... the Russians got British Aircobras because the British didn't want them.

    Of course anything is better than nothing but claiming it helped win the war is a joke.

    BTW it is amusing as the pilots that had the best kill records in American planes in the European theatre were Soviet pilots in Aircobras.
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    That was a great little plane that the Soviets loved!
    The photos are quite telling on the contribution of Allied kit in helping the USSR sustaining itself during 1941 and 1942.

    The Soviets did like the Aircobra but they used it as an air to air interceptor and not a ground attack aircraft like the west thought they did.

    Most of the material supplied in 41-42 was second rate cast offs... the Russians got British Aircobras because the British didn't want them.

    Of course anything is better than nothing but claiming it helped win the war is a joke.

    BTW it is amusing as the pilots that had the best kill records in American planes in the European theatre were Soviet pilots in Aircobras.


    I find it curious that often the same persons who claim that the Lend-Lease had some sort of "miraculous" impact on the Eastern Front often downplay the role of the resistance movements in the winning of the Second World War.

    So the Lend-Lease had a huge impact but the efforts of the partisans and other members of the resistance movements did not?

    So why did German troops on the Eastern Front did not receive their Christmas of 1943 gifts until May of 1944? You can read about it in an English-language Western book about the Luftwaffe Field Divisions. Allied aerial bombings? I doubt it, since there were very few of these carried out over Poland and the occupied part of the Soviet Union. Some of these delays could have been actually caused by the Soviet air attacks, but most certainly not all.



    You can check some related links on this matter:


    Polish Partisans

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-ZiemiLubelskiej.html

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-SynowieMazowsza.html

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-ZiemiKieleckiej.html

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-GL.html

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-GL42.html

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-Rablow.html



    Soviet Partisan "Railway Aces"

    http://www.wio.ru/galgrnd/podryvnk.htm


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    Post  archangelski on Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:13 pm

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    Post  archangelski on Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:51 pm

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    Post  archangelski on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:19 pm

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    Post  archangelski on Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:24 pm

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    Post  archangelski on Sun May 27, 2018 4:08 pm

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    Post  archangelski on Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:57 am

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    Post  archangelski on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:36 am

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    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:05 pm

    TASS remembers the largest tank battle in history.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1018342
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    Post  starman on Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:00 pm

    George1 wrote:TASS remembers the largest tank battle in history.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1018342

    In recent years, revisionist works have challenged the standard narrative. IIRC Nipe determined, from records at the National Archives, that Prokhorovka involved only about 300 German tanks, which destroyed 650 Soviet tanks while losing only 70. The offensive was called off because of Soviet attacks elsewhere (Mius?) and the allied landing in Sicily, not because of Prokhorovka.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:57 am

    Well a simple thing called terrain means you can't have a battle where 2,000 tanks face off against 2,000 tanks.

    The offensive was called off at Kursk because the Soviets stopped its forward progress and they (the Germans) had already committed more than 100% of their capacity there... they even delayed the start so other vehicles could be made available for the attack which still was stopped and pushed back.

    The Soviets took the territory and therefore could reclaim and restore armour that was recovered from the battlefield, and the germans had little choice but to retreat, knowing their time was up because it was the first time they had been defeated in a summer offensive with full preparation and no excuses like Hitler screwed it up for us, or it was a little bit cold...

    In the air the Soviet air force was also asserting itself with new aircraft like the La-5FN at least as good as any German equivalent turning the tide...
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    Post  kvs on Sat May 02, 2020 12:51 am



    The video has a recording of Hitler talking about Soviet tanks.   This is a clear instance proving that he was drinking the
    Reich propaganda koolaid like all western leaders always do.  

    1) He claims that 34,000 out of an initial 35,000 Soviet tanks were destroyed on the eastern front.

    2) He assumes that 35,000 tanks were there from the beginning.

    On both counts he is full of shit.   The USSR was producing T-34s and other tanks from 1941 to 1945.   It did not
    have some huge pool of tanks that it depleted.   Here he is dismissing Soviet industrial capacity since he believes
    Russians and other peoples of the USSR were mud hut dwellers.    In this line of BS-think he is surprised that
    the USSR had so many.

    Then we have the claim that the Reich was taking out basically 100% of the Soviet tanks.  This is utter rubbish.
    In no major eastern front battle after 1941 did the Reich completely destroy every Soviet tank.   And there is
    no way they encountered 35,000 tanks in 1941 and 1942.   There were 35,119 T-34 units produced from 1941 to 1945.
    There were 29,430 T-34-85 tanks produced after 1943.   The other models had much smaller numbers.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 02, 2020 3:59 am

    I suspect he means the thousands of light tanks... the T-26s and the BT light tanks of which there were probably 10-20 thousand at the start of the war.

    They had three critical problems at the start of the war... the first was a lack of armour piercing ammo... even for the T-34s which hampered their use, but the most critical problem was the arrangement of crew in their tanks... the commander was also the gunner and the loader in the T-26 light tank which rendered it blind most of the time. The third problem was lack of communication and structure within their forces... a couple of tanks at a time would attack a german armoured force and get wiped out.

    New lets be clear the main success of the German army was not their super tanks or amazing equipment... in most regards their tanks were inferior to Soviet tanks, but they were designed to be used more efficiently... the British and French tanks were no better in most respects... even the few rather well armed and armoured French tanks had poor crew layouts even though most had radios and proper tank structures to control them...

    In recent years, revisionist works have challenged the standard narrative.

    Since day one the western agenda has been to minimise the effect the eastern front had on the German war machine and try to push the idea that strategic bombing, lend lease, cold winters, and of course D Day won WWII in Europe.

    BTW I enjoyed looking at the pictures on this thread again... if you like those old planes I can recommend the computer game Il-2:46 which is pretty much the old Il-2 Shturmovich game with all the Il-2 games compiled into one... the graphics of the ground are not amazing by todays standard, but the aircraft models are excellent and include detailed cockpits. With patches you can pretty much fly any plane or occupy any position within the aircraft including pilot, navigator, gunner, bomb aimer etc etc and there are hundreds of different planes and dozens of variations of many of those to fly. You can set yourself as invulnerable and with unlimited ammo and just fly around and have fun... the controls can be adapted to any hardware you have so if you have an aircraft control stick and a throttle system that allows for 4 or 6 engines then you can manually throttle appropriate aircraft including bombers from all air forces of the period.

    wiki info that includes a link for the home website for the software.

    Actually I see on the game website that it has been totally expanded so you can now play ground vehicles as well as aircraft...

    https://il2sturmovik.com/
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    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2020 11:43 am

    kvs wrote:

    The video has a recording of Hitler talking about Soviet tanks.   This is a clear instance proving that he was drinking the
    Reich propaganda koolaid like all western leaders always do.  

    1) He claims that 34,000 out of an initial 35,000 Soviet tanks were destroyed on the eastern front.

    2) He assumes that 35,000 tanks were there from the beginning.

    On both counts he is full of shit.   The USSR was producing T-34s and other tanks from 1941 to 1945.   It did not
    have some huge pool of tanks that it depleted.
      Here he is dismissing Soviet industrial capacity since he believes
    Russians and other peoples of the USSR were mud hut dwellers.    In this line of BS-think he is surprised that
    the USSR had so many.

    Then we have the claim that the Reich was taking out basically 100% of the Soviet tanks.  This is utter rubbish.
    In no major eastern front battle after 1941 did the Reich completely destroy every Soviet tank.   And there is
    no way they encountered 35,000 tanks in 1941 and 1942.   There were 35,119 T-34 units produced from 1941 to 1945.
    There were 29,430 T-34-85 tanks produced after 1943.   The other models had much smaller numbers.

    It certainly did.

    The numbers are off, but not that far off. From memory the USSR had 20000-22000 tanks when the war started. And about 2000 left by the end of 1941.

    Yes they were mostly BT-5s, BT-7s, T-26s, T-28s, T-38s, various tankettes and training tanks pressed into battle, and so on.
    From memory the T-34 only accounted for 4% of the Soviet tank force at the outbreak of war, and a lot of those were located in the Far East. The KV series accounted for even less; just over 2%.

    By the winter of 1941 their armour reserves were incredibly depleted and Soviet industries had not yet kicked up to enough tank production to begin compensating; although lend-lease did help to supply some Allied tanks. Remaining tanks were stretched out so much that entire tank divisions had only about a batallion's or several companies worth of tanks.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 02, 2020 1:25 pm

    Honestly the T-26s should have been converted into troop transport and artillery towing vehicle, and all focus put on T-34s and KV-1s... and to be honest they should have put 57mm high velocity guns in the KV-1s with a massive turret with a gunner, a loader and a commander.

    The T-34 was fast and useful against most things while the KV-1 could have been the tank killer with a big comfortable turret with better views for the commander and more powerful better quality optics for the gunner... the 85mm AA gun should have been prepared for use in the KV-1 as soon as possible and of course when the Tiger and Panther were revealed they could transfer the 85mm turret to the T-34 and put something bigger on the KV/JS heavy.

    Instead they ended up with a medium and a heavy tank with the same gun... they led the way with a multi purpose main gun instead of separate HE and high velocity guns as used on previous vehicles.
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    Post  kvs on Sat May 02, 2020 9:13 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    The video has a recording of Hitler talking about Soviet tanks.   This is a clear instance proving that he was drinking the
    Reich propaganda koolaid like all western leaders always do.  

    1) He claims that 34,000 out of an initial 35,000 Soviet tanks were destroyed on the eastern front.

    2) He assumes that 35,000 tanks were there from the beginning.

    On both counts he is full of shit.   The USSR was producing T-34s and other tanks from 1941 to 1945.   It did not
    have some huge pool of tanks that it depleted.
      Here he is dismissing Soviet industrial capacity since he believes
    Russians and other peoples of the USSR were mud hut dwellers.    In this line of BS-think he is surprised that
    the USSR had so many.

    Then we have the claim that the Reich was taking out basically 100% of the Soviet tanks.  This is utter rubbish.
    In no major eastern front battle after 1941 did the Reich completely destroy every Soviet tank.   And there is
    no way they encountered 35,000 tanks in 1941 and 1942.   There were 35,119 T-34 units produced from 1941 to 1945.
    There were 29,430 T-34-85 tanks produced after 1943.   The other models had much smaller numbers.

    It certainly did.

    The numbers are off, but not that far off. From memory the USSR had 20000-22000 tanks when the war started. And about 2000 left by the end of 1941.

    Yes they were mostly BT-5s, BT-7s, T-26s, T-28s, T-38s, various tankettes and training tanks pressed into battle, and so on.
    From memory the T-34 only accounted for 4% of the Soviet tank force at the outbreak of war, and a lot of those were located in the Far East. The KV series accounted for even less; just over 2%.

    By the winter of 1941 their armour reserves were incredibly depleted and Soviet industries had not yet kicked up to enough tank production to begin compensating; although lend-lease did help to supply some Allied tanks. Remaining tanks were stretched out so much that entire tank divisions had only about a batallion's or several companies worth of tanks.

    Hitler specifically talks about 35,000 tanks. That is not 22,000. And most of that 22,000 is not real tanks anyway. None that der Fuhrer would
    care about.

    The 35,000 figure clearly refers to the some figure after 1941. Also 34/35 is not equal to 20/22.

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    Post  kvs on Sat May 02, 2020 9:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:Honestly the T-26s should have been converted into troop transport and artillery towing vehicle, and all focus put on T-34s and KV-1s... and to be honest they should have put 57mm high velocity guns in the KV-1s with a massive turret with a gunner, a loader and a commander.

    The T-34 was fast and useful against most things while the KV-1 could have been the tank killer with a big comfortable turret with better views for the commander and more powerful better quality optics for the gunner... the 85mm AA gun should have been prepared for use in the KV-1 as soon as possible and of course when the Tiger and Panther were revealed they could transfer the 85mm turret to the T-34 and put something bigger on the KV/JS heavy.

    Instead they ended up with a medium and a heavy tank with the same gun... they led the way with a multi purpose main gun instead of separate HE and high velocity guns as used on previous vehicles.

    The previous poster is not making any relevant points.   Hitler clearly is talking about T-34s and not T-26s.   If only 2,000 out 22,000 of "whatever tanks"
    were left in 1941, Hitler would not be shocked at the magnitude of the tanks but celebrating the ease with which Reich forces obliterated untermenschen
    hardware.   The audio in the video posted is completely not in line with any of the discussion about T-26s.    The numbers are wrong since 34/35 is 3%
    left intact instead of 20/22 which is 9%.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2020 5:21 am

    Hitler is a dick and most of german intelligence before the conflict was totally wrong.

    I believe Hitler said all they have to do is kick in the front door and the whole rotten ediface would collapse in on itself... he was wrong about that too...

    It is the old case of... if you are a true german you will believe german intel over foreign sources... look at the way the democrats manipulated Trump regarding Russia... by suggesting he was not a true patriot if he believed Putin over western intelligence services regarding this or that lie.

    Neither Trump nor Hitler are concerned with realities... when his air force claims to have shot down 50,000 soviet planes and his tank commanders claim to have destroyed 100,000 enemy tanks why would he question their numbers... especially when it is in his favour...

    Of course more problematic is the numbers from Stalingrad and Leningrad and the invisible divisions he was mobilising for the defence of Berlin.

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