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    Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Sprut-B
    Sprut-B


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    Post  Sprut-B Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:07 pm

    The majority of Soviets killed during WW2 were civilians.
    In Leningrad alone, a lot of civilians died.
    And the actual losses suffered by the Red Army were equal to, if not lower than those of the Germans.

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:11 pm

    And the actual losses suffered by the Red Army were equal to, if not lower than those of the Germans. wrote:

    If you add Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, Slovaks, Finns to the Germans, the losses of the Axis countries were greater than those of the Soviets.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:14 pm

    NATzO revisionists always count the 3.3 million Soviet POWs who died in German captivity as KIA. So they can yap like rabid chihuahuas
    about "human waves". They also systematically exclude German allied forces KIA as if that somehow does not count. I guess we can
    subtract non-Russian Soviet citizens who died, then. NATzO is swimming in a sea of hater shit.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:17 pm

    @Sprut-B,

    It was not lower, which is just a fact and historical observation.
    If we apply to it the perspective, it turns out to be equal.
    But that would hamper the whole of ideologically driven western pseudo-histology.
    Only to start with, most of the western agenda claims that Hitler was forced to attack the SU, because otherwise it would have been vice versa.
    Back in the 90-00s, the most reputable Russian historian was a guy who published under the nickname of Victor Suvorow.
    Vladimir Bogdanowitch Rezun was his real name.
    His of the "history line" are pure fiction.
    Stalin was supposed to attack the Third Reich, and was outspeeded by at most two weeks!
    Like ... really? Laughing
    With about half of manpower assembled on the frontline by the OpForce back then?
    Gee!

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:43 pm


    Can we go back to the war at hand please, pretty please with sugar on top?



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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:48 am

    As for Finland the talk about meat wave tactics is pretty much bullshit as well. What happened is that Soviet troops had to follow fairly narrow roads across the ice, and this made them and their logistics vulnerable to be ambushed. The Soviets still won.

    Not to mention conscripts armed with bolt action rifles vs a nation of hunters and fishermen with SMGs.

    The Soviets already had SMGs but they didn't issue them in significant numbers because of the potential logistics issues of supplying that much ammo.

    Ironically it was their widespread use of SMGs that led the Germans to introduce their assault rifles because the fire power of PPSh-41 is amazing at close range.

    Mistaken. The Germans had better technology but not to the point of giving them an advantage on the battlefield. Even German military tactics had already been developed by Russian militaries. The Germans underestimated the Russians. Just look at the T34.

    The better German technology didn't matter enough to make a difference. They are still digging T-34s out of swamps and with a bit of cleaning and replacing fuel and lubricants and the damn things start. German tanks often wouldn't start on the Eastern front when they were brand new.

    Some might argue that not a lot has changed.

    The Germans copied the mechanisms of Soviet rifles to finally achieve a semi automatic rifle worth a damn, and they directly copied the 120mm mortars the Soviets had. They would pick up and use Russian PPSh-41 SMGs too.

    The only area the Germans were superior was with anti tank rockets but Soviet tanks were better for the anti armour role anyway.

    In terms of machine guns the SG-43 was not a bad weapon and the DP-27 weapons were decent weapons too, while the Maxim machine gun was heavy they also have heavy machine guns which the Germans lacked. In terms of aircraft mounted weapons the Shkas was an outstanding rifle calibre machine gun as was its replacement UltraShKAS...

    The Soviets started the war with obsolete T-26 tanks and Polikarpov I-16s, but much better platforms were actually in production when the Germans attacked in 1941.

    Yak-1s and MiG-3s and LaGGs were not a lot worse than what the western air forces had at the time and the Yak-3s and La-5FN and La-7s and Yak-9s were some of the best fighters anywhere.

    Hitler ignored the intelligence reports. I thought the Russians had much less than they did. The poor performance of the Russians in Finland gave a misleading impression of Soviet power.
    And to make matters worse, the idiot declares war on the United States on two fronts.

    Hitler knew that if he was going to take on the British and the Americans that he needed the resources of the Soviet Union, and if he could take it all he could join up with the Japanese in the far east.

    The Japs beat the Russians in 1905 but the Soviets beat the Japs in 1939 and they weren't that bad in the Spanish civil war either.

    Hitler had a low opinion of the Soviets because he was a nazi fool who thought all other races were genetically inferior to Germans... the sort of thing that is common in the west regarding the Russians and Chinese and other nations around the world.

    If Hitler had been so anti-Russian and paranoid, today Germany would dominate the world because it would not have had a conflict with Stalin, and if they went to war it would be in a safer scenario for the Germans. He could have even left the Soviets alone and stayed with the Wes, but hey, he was a good domestic politician but very stupid in geopolitics.

    If he was smart he would have claimed to love the Russian people and that Stalin and communism was what he was fighting and that he would invade the Soviet Union to liberate the country from evil, but he was no smart, he was evil and couldn't help himself...

    The irony is that it wasn't Russia that made Germany suffer before during or after WWI, it was the western allies, but he seemed to have gotten it into his head that the Soviet Union was the problem and he had to destroy it... hence the genocide of 25+ million dead Soviet citizens... how could they be nice to nazis after that?

    The western allies lost a tiny fraction of that number in the conflict so they let nazis run their moon rocket programme and allowed nazis into HATO and western pharmaceutical companies.

    The real advantage in that area was that every German tank had a radio.

    Very true, but ignores the fact that communication is more than just having radio, you need radio discipline and also the enemy can listen or jam radio traffic too.

    When you train with radios and communication and that doesn't work in the field you can have problems going to flags and operating in formations.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:59 am

    Would add that if the Soviets used meat wave attacks they would have lost signficantly more men... the current conflict in Ukraine shows the difference between a professional force that is well trained and equipped fighting another well equipped but poorly led side that is happy to send troops to die for political reasons.

    The death ratio is enormously skewed because one side doesn't mind meat wave attacks and the other is trying to minimise losses in their own troops and civilian bystanders... leading to figures for civilian deaths to be quite frankly astounding.

    It is almost like the Russians don't want to kill civilians at all... something western military experts probably wont understand.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:04 am

    The meat wave racism uses manipulated casualty figures and even then is absurd. Taking the 12 million dead Soviet soldiers claim at face
    value and then using the German-only KIA of 4 million we have a ratio of about 3:1. That does not conform to human wave attacks since
    they are more similar to Zulus rushing maxim gun nests. Supposedly the Kiev regime is not using human wave tactics, but is still losing
    over 8 times more men than the Russian forces. Using meat waves would increase this ratio and not reduce it.

    Of course the ratio of 3:1 is BS since the minimal German and German allied force losses were 6.5 million and the Soviet losses were about 9 million.
    This gives us 1.4:1. The skew in the ratio is because of early stage Soviet losses. The initial blitzkrieg was the main German achievement.
    The number of POWs that they captured is due to the problems with the Soviet forces and logistics in 1941 and 1942. At no stage did the
    USSR use human wave attacks.

    Hater retards cannot grasp how conventional wars are fought. They are fought with logistics and military industry including effective weapon
    design. Throwing meat at the enemy will only result in a very short slaughter war and total loss. Clearly the USSR outproduced the whole of
    Nazi controlled U-rope. Russia is also outproducing NATzO today and in a vastly greater proportion.

    NATzO haters are compensating for their own inferiority by projecting it onto others.



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    ArgentinaGuard


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    Post  ArgentinaGuard Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:55 am

    Absolutely Garry. That is why you can see positive things about National Socialism in domestic politics, even its criticism of sectors of Judaism. But hatred of Russians seems absurd to me when they are peoples with common points. Germans are closer to Russian spiritualism and conservatism than to Western liberalism. Who wanted to destroy Germany were the Westerners, especially the French who were resentful of the Franco-Prussian War. And it was Stalin himself who saved the Germans from Roosevelt's Morgantheu plan. More or less the same thing they want to do now with Russia.
    Germans are very stupid, they are only good for work, but they lack independence, if not, they would know how to recognize that Russia has always wanted to be their guardian angel.

    What a paradox. The only Europeans concerned about the defense of white peoples (at least the Slavs) and the preservation of the family is Russia when the current Nazis seem to ask for the opposite (globalism, woke LGBT ideology).

    My question about the Nazis is this: why do they serve their past enemies (the Jewish globalist elites) or were they always at their service? Because we must remember that the defeat of Germany, expected due to Hitler's mistakes, resulted in the strengthening of the Jews with the creation of Israel and international organizations. And Hitler in his attack on the Jews never touched the bankers and the great powers, despite his speech.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:36 pm

    What a paradox. The only Europeans concerned about the defense of white peoples (at least the Slavs) and the preservation of the family is Russia when the current Nazis seem to ask for the opposite (globalism, woke LGBT ideology).

    When the nazis were trying to defend white people they did so by trying to kill everyone else and steal their land and resources.

    Russia is dominated by conservatives at the moment but that can change, Putin is not someone who would tolerate hate crimes like the alphabet people being killed, he accepts their mental state is something they are happy with, he just doesn't want them to try to impose rules on all society that demand everyone respects them and worships them.

    You can't help who you fall in love with and you can't help what you like and don't like, but you do have to control yourself around others because while they might not care what you want and think and do, they might object to you demanding acceptance and even cooperation.

    The Germans and Russians could have been amazing... a bit of respect and cooperation and they could have made amazing things and done amazing things, but after Germany killed 30 million Soviets any cooperation is going to get coloured by that and there is going to be hostility and mistrust.

    The Americans and Russians could have been amazing too, but America turned into Europe... another colonial power focused on enriching itself and keeping everyone else down and under the thumb so they are no threat.

    Combining the potential of America and Russia and we could have all sorts of things we want... space travel, cures for most diseases, poverty could have been dealt with, affordable clean energy, but greed and hubris got in the way, and colonialism too.

    It is simply not going to happen, which is fine because Russia can look to China and the rest of the world while the west stews in its own juices and laments what it had and lost.

    My question about the Nazis is this: why do they serve their past enemies (the Jewish globalist elites) or were they always at their service?

    The jews are not a natural enemy to the nazis... the jews were just an easy target for Adolf to target... instead of the jews it could just as easily have been oligarchs... the rich people... the super rich people... when the majority of the people are suffering in a depression caused by rich people and their wars to get slightly richer and slightly more influence, it is easy to point to small groups of people who seem to be still doing rather well or at least better than everyone else.

    Jews are not much different from Jehovahs witnesses and catholics and other groups... they stick together... of course there will be factions that don't get along but generally they will help their brethren more than they would help others, and that can lead to issues when some have money or power or both.

    Because we must remember that the defeat of Germany, expected due to Hitler's mistakes, resulted in the strengthening of the Jews with the creation of Israel and international organizations.

    It created a lot of sympathy that the state of Israel today proves was misplaced and has been abused.

    Walking through deserts and killed by Germans... they are very much a group of martyrs in many ways.

    You don't see Russians talking about 30 million dead from Germany and her allies and x number dead from various leaders they have had through the centuries... they just keep going on and are not surprised when their so called allies from WWII forget or revise or ignore their contribution to the outcome.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jun 06, 2024 6:43 pm

    A heated dispute between historians and writers Leonid Mlechin and Viktor Suvorov, which happened on the air of RS 15 years ago, on June 22, 2006.
    https://youtu.be/V0uaATMmJ8U
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 14, 2024 2:54 am

    ‘Miracle in the East’: New WWII history book hits the shelves
               The publication is based on the work of Western war correspondents covering the Eastern front

    ©  Sputnik / Georgy Zelma

    The Russian History Perspective Fund has released a new history book covering the events on the Eastern Front and battles between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

    The book, titled ‘Miracle in the East. Western war correspondents report. 1941–1945.’, is based on wartime publications by Western war correspondents.

    The book has been published in both Russian and English, with the latter featuring additional multimedia materials. The English version was released by the Fund on Friday and is available on its website.

    “The emphasis is on telling a consistent story, because in the modern world the idea of the role of the Red Army and the Soviet people in the victory over fascism has been lost. Moreover, the entire history of World War II is being revised and distorted,” the NGO said in a statement.
    EU state removing Soviet soldiers’ war graves – media  READ MORE: EU state removing Soviet soldiers’ war graves – media

    The publication is expected to spark particular interest in the West, given that it is based on the first-hand experience of Western war correspondents who were working in the field at the time. The view provided by these witnesses to the dramatic wartime events sharply contrasts with the revisionist take on World War II that has spread in the West over the past decades, the Fund noted.

    “This English version of the book is particularly relevant, as it addresses readers both in the US and in Europe. These are original articles from leading newspapers and magazines in the Western world: Time, Newsweek, The New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, The Washington Post and others,” it noted.


    Click on the link above (available) to download the pdf file... free and in English.

    Source:  https://www.rt.com/russia/600947-eastern-front-history-book/

    Note you can right click the link above and choose "save link", or just left click the link and it will open a pdf, which you can then save as a pdf.

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