Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+34
Tsavo Lion
KiloGolf
archangelski
kvs
Khepesh
starman
kristov_ginter
OminousSpudd
Walther von Oldenburg
max steel
SturmGuard
Svyatoslavich
BlackArrow
Regular
flamming_python
Werewolf
KoTeMoRe
Cucumber Khan
higurashihougi
PapaDragon
JohninMK
Odin of Ossetia
Morpheus Eberhardt
Vann7
Cowboy's daughter
AirCargo
HeNeArKrXeRn_
Giulio
DTA
GarryB
TheGeorgian
TR1
magnumcromagnon
Cyberspec
38 posters

    Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29934
    Points : 30460
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:30 am

    The very mention of some of those names and we will shortly hear about war crimes...

    Some of their biggest kills were ships taking people from a trapped off bulge of german forces in the Baltics that were cut off from an escape via land so they had to risk going by ship.

    I seem to remember three ships with a total of something like 30,000 people on board were sunk... at the time they said they were mostly wounded german soldiers, but later they claimed there were women and children... but what german women and children would be in the baltics... these would therefore be the women and children of the baltic states whose sons and fathers helped the nazis guard prisoners in execution camps and feared soviet reprisals...

    To repeat my reply that was moved to another thread...

    Sad your graph is wrong, the Germans did not have over 700 divisions during the war lol.

    You do understand that after a division is effectively destroyed its reminents are used to form new units... a destroyed division does not mean every single man killed or captured... otherwise the number of destroyed divisions for the whole war on all sides would be about 6... even the encircled and captured Soviet divisions in 1941 and 1942 were not totally destroyed... we know numbers of them joined the locals as partizans or snuck back through the lines...

    Though no one is sure what the actual number is war records like that were pretty much destroyed and the USSR just didn't keep track of that well.

    There has never been any question that three quarters of German combat kills... ie soldiers and not old men and old women and children during the strategic bombing, were killed on the eastern front and the eastern front was where all their best soldiers and best generals were sent.

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 10332
    Points : 10479
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  kvs Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:05 am

    So now German invader losses on the eastern front are German women and children murdered by nasty Soviets.  OK.  Good to
    know that the brain rot in the west is terminal.

    BTW, SS keep on pissing on this forum.  You only prove you are an imbecile.

    Finty likes this post

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 5656
    Points : 5650
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:29 pm

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 5656
    Points : 5650
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:51 pm

    https://ria.ru/20201205/vov-1587768488.html

    But there were still a lot of other NKVD troops guarding the GULAG that could be used in combat instead.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 5656
    Points : 5650
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:17 pm

    Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation: The Northern Fleet began hostilities on June 17, 1941 https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3134461.html

    What prevented the Japanese from attacking the USSR in 1941 https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3134762.html



    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:03 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 10332
    Points : 10479
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  kvs Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:54 am



    Even if this amounts to a movie analysis, there is a critical detail in it. Hitler loses his grip when he realizes
    the full picture of failure to muster armies to stop the Red Army advance on Berlin. In the movie they have him
    rant that he should have purged the army ranks like Stalin.

    The revisionist narrative we have on Stalin's purge is that it weakened the Soviet Union's ability to fight the Nazis.
    This narrative is total BS. The Soviet army of the 1930s was infested with spies and actual traitors. You can
    thank Trotsky's Bolshies for that. (Lenin as they say in Russia was a "chuchilo" or straw man.) One of the reasons
    that the Nazis were cocky about taking on the USSR was that they thought that all sorts of dissidents would come
    out of the woodwork to support the invaders. This was actually true in Ukraine and a lot of the USSR borderlands
    but it was never true for Russians. So Hitler may as well have made such a rant since Stalin's purge did clean
    up the Red Army and ensured a functional chain of command.

    Part of the Stalin "the loser" narrative includes claiming he was "surprised" by the German attack. This is total
    rubbish since the USSR was preparing for war full tilt since after 1939. This preparation increased its war capacity
    by 40%. The other part of this revisionism is to claim that Stalin squandered soldiers. This is done by engaging
    in BS accounting. So the 3.3 Soviet POWs who died in the hands of the Nazis are counted as effective KIA.
    At the same time all the German allies such as Hungary, Romania, Italy and many others who lost over 2 million
    on the eastern front are not counted and we have an inane comparison of German losses with Soviet losses.
    About 20% of the German POWs died in Soviet captivity which is nowhere near 3.3 million.

    The initial success of the Nazis on the eastern front is not proof that the USSR was unprepared. The USSR started
    from the conditions of an agrarian state and was industrializing through the 1930s. Germany was much better prepared
    in terms of industrial war and had US and UK financing and direct industrial support from western corporations to
    lubricate their military build up. The fact that the USSR managed to stop the Nazis is a type of miracle. And
    that includes losing 18 million civilians since such enormous losses did not break the country psychologically. Again,
    the USSR did not butcher German civilians on the scale that the Nazis murdered Soviet civilians.

    Another question that begs to be asked is why the western allies did not rush to save German from the Soviets.
    The answer to this includes not coming out of the closet and owning Hitler's failure. But it is also due to the
    fact that in 1945 the Red Army could not be rolled back and so there was no point in trying. It looks a lot like
    the plan was for the "rotten Soviet facade" to collapse but that never worked out so Germany was thrown under
    the bus by its "pals". This smacks of the present day situation where the NATO west acts as if Russia will crumble
    under sanctions and their saber rattling.

    GarryB, markgreven and lancelot like this post

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 5656
    Points : 5650
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:05 am

    1 German said that if Hitler didn't try to take Stalingrad, Germany would have won. Could it really happen?
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1367
    Points : 1410
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Cowboy's daughter Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:17 pm

    Last of the Soviet soldiers who liberated Auschwitz dies at 98

    BERLIN (AP) — David Dushman, the last surviving Soviet soldier involved in the liberation of the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz, has died. He was 98.

    The Jewish Community of Munich and Upper Bavaria said Sunday that Dushman had died at a Munich hospital on Saturday.

    “Every witness to history who passes on is a loss, but saying farewell to David Dushman is particularly painful,” said Charlotte Knobloch, a former head of Germany’s Central Council of Jews. “Dushman was right on the front lines when the National Socialists’ machinery of murder was destroyed.”

    As a young Red Army soldier, Dushman flattened the forbidding electric fence around the notorious Nazi death camp with his T-34 tank on Jan. 27, 1945.

    He admitted that he and his comrades didn’t immediately realize the full magnitude of what had happened in Auschwitz.

    “Skeletons everywhere,” he recalled in a 2015 interview with Munich newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung. “They stumbled out of the barracks, they sat and lay among the dead. Terrible. We threw them all of our canned food and immediately drove on, to hunt fascists.”

    More than a million people, most of them Jews deported there from all over Europe, were murdered by the Nazis at Auschwitz-Birkenau between 1940 and 1945.

    Dushman earlier took part in some of the bloodiest military encounters of World War II, including the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. He was seriously wounded three times but survived the war, one of just 69 soldiers in his 12,000-strong division.


    https://www.bigcountryhomepage.com/news/international-news/last-of-the-soviet-soldiers-who-liberated-auschwitz-dies-at-98/
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29934
    Points : 30460
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:02 am

    1 German said that if Hitler didn't try to take Stalingrad, Germany would have won. Could it really happen?

    Stalingrad was a pivotal location on a critical river... it was also a trap planned early on that slowly fed Soviet troops into the fight to slow German progress to a slow crawl. The trap was not sprung till the very last moment, but if they wanted to they could have fed in troops at a much faster rate and created more of a stalemate with the Soviet troops holding rather more of the city.

    The way they fought was very clever and negated the German skill with combining air power with armour and manouver and prowess and communications advantages. The HATO manual for fighting in urban areas was basically copied directly from Soviet tactics developed in such conflicts.

    The Germans got beaten in Kursk... a one on one conflict in good weather out in the open with freedom of manouver and full air power and their latest most powerful tank toys... it was after Kursk that Germany was retreating ever after on the eastern front... Kursk was going to be their response to losing at Stalingrad and it made everything so much worse because when you are retreating any armour you lose is lost to the enemy, while any armour they lose can be recovered and repaired and put back to work.

    Last of the Soviet soldiers who liberated Auschwitz dies at 98

    European commemorations of the war don't mention the Soviets, it was the allies that won that war and saved those people... they invite Germany but not Russia...

    Perhaps it was a different conflict. cry
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1367
    Points : 1410
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    1 German said that if Hitler didn't try to take Stalingrad, Germany would have won. Could it really happen?

    Stalingrad was a pivotal location on a critical river... it was also a trap planned early on that slowly fed Soviet troops into the fight to slow German progress to a slow crawl. The trap was not sprung till the very last moment, but if they wanted to they could have fed in troops at a much faster rate and created more of a stalemate with the Soviet troops holding rather more of the city.

    The way they fought was very clever and negated the German skill with combining air power with armour and manouver and prowess and communications advantages. The HATO manual for fighting in urban areas was basically copied directly from Soviet tactics developed in such conflicts.

    The Germans got beaten in Kursk... a one on one conflict in good weather out in the open with freedom of manouver and full air power and their latest most powerful tank toys... it was after Kursk that Germany was retreating ever after on the eastern front... Kursk was going to be their response to losing at Stalingrad and it made everything so much worse because when you are retreating any armour you lose is lost to the enemy, while any armour they lose can be recovered and repaired and put back to work.

    Last of the Soviet soldiers who liberated Auschwitz dies at 98

    European commemorations of the war don't mention the Soviets, it was the allies that won that war and saved those people... they invite Germany but not Russia...

    Perhaps it was a different conflict.  cry

    Many Americans who like and read history, are not so biased. They give credit to where credit is due to the Soviets during WW2. The war against Hitler would not have been won without the sacrifice, and blood, and lives, & I don't have words to say, of the men and women of the USSR, who fought.

    This article was posted in local Texas news.

    I don't know how many Russian ethnicity live in Texas in 2021 but the Dallas-Fort Worth area is home to 70,000 immigrants who speak Russian, mostly from the former Soviet Block. This includes Russians, Russian Jews, Uzbek, and Ukrainians.


    Last edited by Cowboy's daughter on Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edited date to 2021)
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter

    Posts : 1367
    Points : 1410
    Join date : 2015-04-24
    Location : Texas

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:29 pm

    Russian Newspaper in Texas

    "Our Texas"

    http://ourtx.com/
    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4667
    Points : 4751
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  flamming_python Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:30 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:Last of the Soviet soldiers who liberated Auschwitz dies at 98

    BERLIN (AP) — David Dushman, the last surviving Soviet soldier involved in the liberation of the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz, has died. He was 98.

    The Jewish Community of Munich and Upper Bavaria said Sunday that Dushman had died at a Munich hospital on Saturday.

    “Every witness to history who passes on is a loss, but saying farewell to David Dushman is particularly painful,” said Charlotte Knobloch, a former head of Germany’s Central Council of Jews. “Dushman was right on the front lines when the National Socialists’ machinery of murder was destroyed.”

    As a young Red Army soldier, Dushman flattened the forbidding electric fence around the notorious Nazi death camp with his T-34 tank on Jan. 27, 1945.

    He admitted that he and his comrades didn’t immediately realize the full magnitude of what had happened in Auschwitz.

    “Skeletons everywhere,” he recalled in a 2015 interview with Munich newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung. “They stumbled out of the barracks, they sat and lay among the dead. Terrible. We threw them all of our canned food and immediately drove on, to hunt fascists.”

    More than a million people, most of them Jews deported there from all over Europe, were murdered by the Nazis at Auschwitz-Birkenau between 1940 and 1945.

    Dushman earlier took part in some of the bloodiest military encounters of World War II, including the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. He was seriously wounded three times but survived the war, one of just 69 soldiers in his 12,000-strong division.


    https://www.bigcountryhomepage.com/news/international-news/last-of-the-soviet-soldiers-who-liberated-auschwitz-dies-at-98/

    Eternal memory!

    kvs and Cowboy's daughter like this post

    higurashihougi
    higurashihougi

    Posts : 2406
    Points : 2497
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  higurashihougi Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:14 pm

    Everybody who have a serious look at WW2 realized who contributed the most in defeating Nazi, and even American history website recognized that magnitude, sophistication, and achievement of Bagration June 1944 makes Normandy looks like just a dwarf.

    But for most of the people history is not their specialization and interest, it is normal as every human have her own unique direction. And the Western propaganda preys on that unfortunate fact.

    Cowboy's daughter likes this post

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 10332
    Points : 10479
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  kvs Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:10 pm

    Auschwitz was built with Soviet POW slave labour and these slaves were the first to be sent to the ovens. This is a fact that is
    systematically omitted in western accounts of Auschwitz. Meanwhile we had Ukr prison guards at Treblinka and elsewhere. Modern
    day NATzO loves the Banderite Ukrs and hates the victims and liberators of Auschwitz. Jews are an exception because they managed
    to not let the revisionist Nazi-apologist narrative delete the Holocaust from history. And the west is more obsessed with hating Russians
    than it is with hating Jews in the last 75 years.

    markgreven and Cowboy's daughter like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29934
    Points : 30460
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:32 am

    I have grown up all my life in the west, and honestly their treatment of Russia tells me nothing I know about history is likely true.

    It is why I don't argue with people who say we never landed on the moon...

    These people don't understand that when you lose credibility then there is nothing but he said she said.

    There was a time when the American way was truth and justice, but these days it sounds like alternatives... you can have truth or justice or you can have the American way.

    Quite sad because what they were selling sounded appealing, but now I have grown up I realise the people in charge don't care.

    It is nice to see some still have respect... Bagration was an amazing operation largely ignored in the west, and it would not have been possible on that scale without lend lease.

    Cowboy's daughter likes this post


    Sponsored content

    Great Patriotic War  (USSR in World War II) - Page 10 Empty Re: Great Patriotic War (USSR in World War II)

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:14 am