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    Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

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    George1

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:31 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Is there any plans for a Russian replacement of the highly successful An-2??? The aircraft was successful both military and civilian service. I know some upgrades were done and antonov wanted to produce a similar aircraft but with Russian and ukrainian bad relationship no purchase or sale would be made. An-2 still have plenty of life (younger versions) but won't be in service forever

    they presented this at MAKS-2017. TVS-2DTS



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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:21 am

    George1 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Is there any plans for a Russian replacement of the highly successful An-2??? The aircraft was successful both military and civilian service. I know some upgrades were done and antonov wanted to produce a similar aircraft but with Russian and ukrainian bad relationship no purchase or sale would be made. An-2 still have plenty of life (younger versions) but won't be in service forever

    they presented this at MAKS-2017. TVS-2DTS





    I had heard of plans but didn't see anything but isn't this aircraft for a specific civilian role? Or will it be used as military and other roles? Honeywell engine I would imagine russian military would use something russian built engine
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:47 am

    New sanctions pretty much stop all exports from US to Russia, so I suspect unless they have local production then they will really need a Russian engine...

    The An-2 is an amazing plane and this new model seems to be even better... the problem is that they have been showing aircraft to replace the An-2 for 40+ years now and nothing has managed to replace it... normally cost is the issue.

    What would really boost civilian sales would be a military contract to subsidise production and to Russianise it with all Russian engine, prop, and avionics...

    My understanding is the upgrade was done by a Siberian company, so it should handle the cold weather... which is critical.

    I remember reading an article filled with butthurt... it was by a Ukrainian who was upset that the Ukraine didn't make a similar upgrade of their own aircraft to sell on the international market... salty tears...

    He wasn't anti Russian, but he wanted better for the Ukraine, which I can understand.

    From what I have read it is lighter but able to operate at higher weights over greater ranges with heavier payloads...

    I just wish they would adopt a simpler designation... Sib-2 or something.

    In a free market, this would sell very well in Alaska and Canada and many nordic countries as well as Russia.

    It would probably also sell rather well in the Pacific Islands in a float plane model...
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:25 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:I had heard of plans but didn't see anything but isn't this aircraft for a specific civilian role? Or will it be used as military and other roles? Honeywell engine I would imagine russian military would use something russian built engine

    The orders of An-2 after 1970 were minimal. The Russian Armed Forces keep like 3 active and 4 reserve aircrafts produced after 1970. The production of An-2 between 1971 and 1991 was almost totally for civilian purposes and export.

    Many designs wanted to be the successor of the An-2, but failed both for military and civil purposes. The concept is outdated.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:38 am

    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:I had heard of plans but didn't see anything but isn't this aircraft for a specific civilian role? Or will it be used as military and other roles? Honeywell engine I would imagine russian military would use something russian built engine

    The orders of An-2 after 1970 were minimal. The Russian Armed Forces keep like 3 active and 4 reserve aircrafts produced after 1970. The production of An-2 between 1971 and 1991 was almost totally for civilian purposes and export.

    Many designs wanted to be the successor of the An-2, but failed both for military and civil purposes. The concept is outdated.


    I disagree on the comment on out dated that would totally depend on what you wanted to use it for the An-2 was used in many roles. And not many planes have such a low stalling speed. I remember reading that the soviets use to fly low and slow and troops would jump out into snow drifts (no parachute) this the officer who was being interviewed stated this was only possible without causing injury due to the low stalling speed of around 30mph which is very low he even stated that they could turn the engine off and glide the plane into landing from slow speeds which would reduce noise when landing special forces also has a very short take off and landing distance of about 170m take off and around 200m landing. All pretty impressive if you want to landing special forces or even as a civilian aircraft operating in small rough airfields etc. In fact north Korean doctrine for its special forces was to use many An-2 to deliver troops via parachute and landing they even went to the extent of replacing parts of the plane with wood to reduce radar signature loool. So I believe that they still have role and they could also be used to drop off personnel supplies or paradrop supplies into hard to reach outposts
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:40 am

    For military purposes the An-2 has too low service ceiling. 4500m means the aircraft can not fly avoiding manpads.
    In the role of transport aircraft, the An-2 and the current aircrafts of its size cathegory lack the payload necessary to be useful today.
    In the role of airliner aircraft, the An-2 lacks the capacity to make its use profitable today.
    In overall terms this concept is outdated today.

    All it is reflected in the low number of orders of the successors of the An-2 in the last decades.

    Of course the units in service still are used, but in the refered to the Russian Armed Forces very likely are under exhaustion in the mid-term and will not have replacement with aircrafts of its size cathegory. In this aircraft cathegory helicopters dominate.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:39 pm

    eehnie wrote:For military purposes the An-2 has too low service ceiling. 4500m means the aircraft can not fly avoiding manpads.
    In the role of transport aircraft, the An-2 and the current aircrafts of its size cathegory lack the payload necessary to be useful today.
    In the role of airliner aircraft, the An-2 lacks the capacity to make its use profitable today.
    In overall terms this concept is outdated today.

    All it is reflected in the low number of orders of the successors of the An-2 in the last decades.

    Of course the units in service still are used, but in the refered to the Russian Armed Forces very likely are under exhaustion in the mid-term and will not have replacement with aircrafts of its size cathegory. In this aircraft cathegory helicopters dominate.


    Yet again your argument fails to see that it all depends on requirements to say it's ceiling height capacity of payload and passengers. In fact no helicopters such as ansat mi-17 ka-60 can beat upgraded An-2 in range and if you look at what is being touted as replacement no helicopter comes even close. As for ceiling height you wouldn't be flying it within range of manpads unless you're mad. Just like you wouldn't fly an Il-76 within range of enemy air defence.

    But obviously Rostec don't share the same views as you. February this year they stated that the TVS 2DTS a direct replacement for the An-2 has not only been signed off by them but various Russian ministries and Russian helicopter holding company so even they see the need for a replacement. The An-2 long service history proves just how useful it is since 1947. And reason for lack of sales for such newer aircraft is that there hasn't been any serious development of such an aircraft to spur sales in til now. The TVS 2DTS is an all weather all composite aircraft requiring no real runway and has a cruising speed of 350km/h (much faster than cruising speed of q helicopter) carry 3.5tons and a range of 4,500km (greater than any helicopter) the company has stated manufacturing facilities will built by 2019 and 2021-2025 200 are to be built. Yet you believe this sort of aircraft to be useless hmmmmmmm.

    If there's a need to transport troops or supplies in smaller quantities to a rugged area or very small runway over a fairly medium range when a helicopter doesn't have the range and using a il-76 would be a waste of money carrying a smaller payload or a runway to small to handle a il-76 that is exactly where this type of aircraft fits in. And I have no doubt Russian military will purchase some of these parachute training to transport of supplies passengers and medical evac.


    https://rostec.ru/en/news/rostec-to-launch-manufacturing-of-tvs-2dts-light-aircraft/
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:16 pm

    eehnie wrote:For military purposes the An-2 has too low service ceiling. 4500m means the aircraft can not fly avoiding manpads.
    In the role of transport aircraft, the An-2 and the current aircrafts of its size cathegory lack the payload necessary to be useful today.
    In the role of airliner aircraft, the An-2 lacks the capacity to make its use profitable today.
    In overall terms this concept is outdated today.

    All it is reflected in the low number of orders of the successors of the An-2 in the last decades.

    Of course the units in service still are used, but in the refered to the Russian Armed Forces very likely are under exhaustion in the mid-term and will not have replacement with aircrafts of its size cathegory. In this aircraft cathegory helicopters dominate.

    It is only $1.5m per unit, that is the selling point. There are many countries that cannot afford more but still need this capability.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:19 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:For military purposes the An-2 has too low service ceiling. 4500m means the aircraft can not fly avoiding manpads.
    In the role of transport aircraft, the An-2 and the current aircrafts of its size cathegory lack the payload necessary to be useful today.
    In the role of airliner aircraft, the An-2 lacks the capacity to make its use profitable today.
    In overall terms this concept is outdated today.

    All it is reflected in the low number of orders of the successors of the An-2 in the last decades.

    Of course the units in service still are used, but in the refered to the Russian Armed Forces very likely are under exhaustion in the mid-term and will not have replacement with aircrafts of its size cathegory. In this aircraft cathegory helicopters dominate.


    Yet again your argument fails to see that it all depends on requirements to say it's ceiling height capacity of payload and passengers. In fact no helicopters such as ansat mi-17 ka-60 can beat upgraded An-2 in range and if you look at what is being touted as replacement no helicopter comes even close. As for ceiling height you wouldn't be flying it within range of manpads unless you're mad. Just like you wouldn't fly an Il-76 within range of enemy air defence.

    But obviously Rostec don't share the same views as you. February this year they stated that the TVS 2DTS a direct replacement for the An-2 has not only been signed off by them but various Russian ministries and Russian helicopter holding company so even they see the need for a replacement. The An-2 long service history proves just how useful it is since 1947. And reason for lack of sales for such newer aircraft is that there hasn't been any serious development of such an aircraft to spur sales in til now. The TVS 2DTS is an all weather all composite aircraft requiring no real runway and has a cruising speed of 350km/h  (much faster than cruising speed of q helicopter) carry 3.5tons and a range of 4,500km  (greater than any helicopter) the company has stated manufacturing facilities will built by 2019 and 2021-2025 200 are to be built. Yet you believe this sort of aircraft to be useless hmmmmmmm.

    If there's a need to transport troops or supplies in smaller quantities to a rugged area or very small runway over a fairly medium range when a helicopter doesn't have the range and using a il-76 would be a waste of money carrying a smaller payload or a runway to small to handle a il-76 that is exactly where this type of aircraft fits in. And I have no doubt Russian military will purchase some of these parachute training to transport of supplies passengers and medical evac.


    https://rostec.ru/en/news/rostec-to-launch-manufacturing-of-tvs-2dts-light-aircraft/

    The range of the An-2 like in all the rest of the aircrafts is related to the payload. Longer fly, smaller payload, until a point that is not useful except for the transport of the pilot and little more.

    You may think this new bid is the first bid to create a successor of the An-2. But the list is long, and you can check the success of the previous bids of the last decades:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t4312p75-russian-transport-aircraft-fleet-vta#189143

    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: T-101/130/210 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/craft/t101.html http://www.airwar.ru/enc/la/t130.html http://www.airwar.ru/enc/la/t210.html
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: T-207 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/la/t207.html
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: M-102 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/aliner/m102.html
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: Rysachok http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Technoavia/Rysachyok
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: MiG-125 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/aliner/mig125.html
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: T-115 Niva http://www.airwar.ru/enc/la/t115.html
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: T-440 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/la/t440.html

    They are not synonim of success.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:41 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:For military purposes the An-2 has too low service ceiling. 4500m means the aircraft can not fly avoiding manpads.
    In the role of transport aircraft, the An-2 and the current aircrafts of its size cathegory lack the payload necessary to be useful today.
    In the role of airliner aircraft, the An-2 lacks the capacity to make its use profitable today.
    In overall terms this concept is outdated today.

    All it is reflected in the low number of orders of the successors of the An-2 in the last decades.

    Of course the units in service still are used, but in the refered to the Russian Armed Forces very likely are under exhaustion in the mid-term and will not have replacement with aircrafts of its size cathegory. In this aircraft cathegory helicopters dominate.

    It is only $1.5m per unit, that is the selling point.  There are many countries that cannot afford more but still need this capability.  

    Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:01 am

    eehnie wrote:

    Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62

    The An-2 stopped production in 2001 with over 18,000 units produced.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:05 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:For military purposes the An-2 has too low service ceiling. 4500m means the aircraft can not fly avoiding manpads.
    In the role of transport aircraft, the An-2 and the current aircrafts of its size cathegory lack the payload necessary to be useful today.
    In the role of airliner aircraft, the An-2 lacks the capacity to make its use profitable today.
    In overall terms this concept is outdated today.

    All it is reflected in the low number of orders of the successors of the An-2 in the last decades.

    Of course the units in service still are used, but in the refered to the Russian Armed Forces very likely are under exhaustion in the mid-term and will not have replacement with aircrafts of its size cathegory. In this aircraft cathegory helicopters dominate.

    It is only $1.5m per unit, that is the selling point.  There are many countries that cannot afford more but still need this capability.  

    Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62

    None of those helicopters have the range of An-2 and nowhere near the TVS 2DTS. When TVS 2DTS comes into production and start selling I will be there to remind you to eat your words lol
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:33 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:

    Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62

    The An-2 stopped production in 2001 with over 18,000 units produced.  

    What production are you counting between 1991 and 2001?
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:13 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62

    None of those helicopters have the range of An-2 and nowhere near the TVS 2DTS. When TVS 2DTS comes into production and start selling I will be there to remind you to eat your words lol

    The range and other features of the veteran An-2 are perfectly matched by modern helicopters, that aditionally can avoid manpads. Then, if someone must begin eating own words, you can begin first.

    Specifications (An-2)
    Antonov An-2
    Data from Biplanes, Triplanes, and Seaplanes[1]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: 12 passengers
    Length: 12.4 m (40 ft 8 in)
    Wingspan:
    Upper wing: 18.2 m (59 ft 8 in)
    Lower wing: 14.2 m (46 ft 7 in)
    Height: 4.1 m (13 ft)
    Wing area: 71.52 m² (769.8 ft²)
    Empty weight: 3,300 kg (7,300 lb)
    Useful load: 2,140 kg (4,700 lb)
    Loaded weight: 5,440 kg (12,000 lb)
    Powerplant: 1 × Shvetsov ASh-62IR 9-cylinder supercharged radial engine, 750 kW (1,000 hp)
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 258 km/h (139 kn, 160 mph)
    Cruise speed: 190 km/h (100 kn, 120 mph)
    Stall speed: ~50 km/h (26 knots, 30 mph)
    Range: 845 km (456 nmi, 525 mi)
    Service ceiling: 4,500 m (14,750 ft)
    Rate of climb: 3.5 m/s (700 ft/min)
    Power/mass: 0.136 kW/kg (0.083 hp/lb)

    Specifications
    Profile Kamov Ka-60 Kasatka.png
    Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 2003–2004,[1] Russian Helicopters[8]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: ** 12–15 passengers (Ka-62)
    14 infantry troops or 6 stretchers
    Internal 2,000 kg (4,400 lb)
    External 2,500 kg (5,500 lb)
    Length: 15.60 m (51.2 ft)
    Rotor diameter: 13.50 m (44.3 ft)
    Height: 4.60 m (15.1 ft)
    Disc area: 143.10 m² (1,540.3 sq ft)
    Max. takeoff weight: 6,500 kg (14,300 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Turbomeca Ardiden 3G turboshaft, 1,776 shp (1,324 kW) each
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 308 km/h (191 mph; 166 kn)
    Cruise speed: 290 km/h (180 mph; 160 kn)
    Range: 770 km (480 mi; 420 nmi) with main tanks
    Service ceiling: 5,700 m (18,700 ft) operational, 3,300 m (10,800 ft) hover
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:06 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    What production are you counting between 1991 and 2001?

    China
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:12 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62

    None of those helicopters have the range of An-2 and nowhere near the TVS 2DTS. When TVS 2DTS comes into production and start selling I will be there to remind you to eat your words lol

    The range and other features of the veteran An-2 are perfectly matched by modern helicopters, that aditionally can avoid manpads. Then, if someone must begin eating own words, you can begin first.

    Specifications (An-2)
    Antonov An-2
    Data from Biplanes, Triplanes, and Seaplanes[1]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: 12 passengers
    Length: 12.4 m (40 ft 8 in)
    Wingspan:
    Upper wing: 18.2 m (59 ft 8 in)
    Lower wing: 14.2 m (46 ft 7 in)
    Height: 4.1 m (13 ft)
    Wing area: 71.52 m² (769.8 ft²)
    Empty weight: 3,300 kg (7,300 lb)
    Useful load: 2,140 kg (4,700 lb)
    Loaded weight: 5,440 kg (12,000 lb)
    Powerplant: 1 × Shvetsov ASh-62IR 9-cylinder supercharged radial engine, 750 kW (1,000 hp)
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 258 km/h (139 kn, 160 mph)
    Cruise speed: 190 km/h (100 kn, 120 mph)
    Stall speed: ~50 km/h (26 knots, 30 mph)
    Range: 845 km (456 nmi, 525 mi)
    Service ceiling: 4,500 m (14,750 ft)
    Rate of climb: 3.5 m/s (700 ft/min)
    Power/mass: 0.136 kW/kg (0.083 hp/lb)

    Specifications
    Profile Kamov Ka-60 Kasatka.png
    Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 2003–2004,[1] Russian Helicopters[8]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: ** 12–15 passengers (Ka-62)
    14 infantry troops or 6 stretchers
    Internal 2,000 kg (4,400 lb)
    External 2,500 kg (5,500 lb)
    Length: 15.60 m (51.2 ft)
    Rotor diameter: 13.50 m (44.3 ft)
    Height: 4.60 m (15.1 ft)
    Disc area: 143.10 m² (1,540.3 sq ft)
    Max. takeoff weight: 6,500 kg (14,300 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Turbomeca Ardiden 3G turboshaft, 1,776 shp (1,324 kW) each
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 308 km/h (191 mph; 166 kn)
    Cruise speed: 290 km/h (180 mph; 160 kn)
    Range: 770 km (480 mi; 420 nmi) with main tanks
    Service ceiling: 5,700 m (18,700 ft) operational, 3,300 m (10,800 ft) hover

    You choose the firzt ever model stats but what about upgraded models many have had upgrades and change of fuel type. What about the other helicopters you mentioned eehnie? Compare there stats and You choose a helicopter that isn't even fully in production how many ka-60 are in service but seeing as you're choosing such a helicopter in its current stage of production then why don't you compare it with the TVS 2DTS and see how it compares I think you'll find it doesn't come close so you will be doing the eating. And of course eehnie you know better than the designers and Rostec who see the need for this type of aircraft as they are planning on putting it into production maybe just maybe they know the market better than you or I.
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:59 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    What production are you counting between 1991 and 2001?

    China  

    This seems to be the production of the An-2.

    https://russianplanes.net/planelist/Antonov/An-2

    Serial production of the An-2 aircraft was conducted
    1949-1963 - at the Aviation Plant No. 473 in Kiev, 3339 vehicles were produced.
    1959-2002 - at the aircraft factory WSK PZL-Mielec in Poland, produced 11 915 cars.
    1965-1971 - at Dolgoprudnensk Machine-Building Plant (Dolgoprudny, MO.), 506 An-2M modification machines were produced.
    1956-1968 - at the aircraft plant No. 320 in Nanchang (now NAMC - Nanhang Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation) in China, 727 machines were launched under the name "Fong Shu-2".
    1970 - 2013 - more than 300 machines under the name "Yunshu-zhi-5" (Y-5) were produced at the aircraft factory in Shijiazhuang (now SAMC-Shijiazhuang Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation) in China.

    The production of the An-2 in the Soviet Union was stopped in 1971, it is coincident with the very low number of units of An-2 present in the Russian Armed Forces produced since 1971. Since this data the aircraft has not been of the interest of the Russian Armed Forces for new purchases.

    The main production of the aircraft seems done in Poland. The production since 1991 would be very low.
    Also the production in China branded like Y-5 seems low, and it has been stopped in 2013. The demand of the Chinese aircraft has been low also in the last decades.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:21 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62

    None of those helicopters have the range of An-2 and nowhere near the TVS 2DTS. When TVS 2DTS comes into production and start selling I will be there to remind you to eat your words lol

    The range and other features of the veteran An-2 are perfectly matched by modern helicopters, that aditionally can avoid manpads. Then, if someone must begin eating own words, you can begin first.

    Specifications (An-2)
    Antonov An-2
    Data from Biplanes, Triplanes, and Seaplanes[1]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: 12 passengers
    Length: 12.4 m (40 ft 8 in)
    Wingspan:
    Upper wing: 18.2 m (59 ft 8 in)
    Lower wing: 14.2 m (46 ft 7 in)
    Height: 4.1 m (13 ft)
    Wing area: 71.52 m² (769.8 ft²)
    Empty weight: 3,300 kg (7,300 lb)
    Useful load: 2,140 kg (4,700 lb)
    Loaded weight: 5,440 kg (12,000 lb)
    Powerplant: 1 × Shvetsov ASh-62IR 9-cylinder supercharged radial engine, 750 kW (1,000 hp)
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 258 km/h (139 kn, 160 mph)
    Cruise speed: 190 km/h (100 kn, 120 mph)
    Stall speed: ~50 km/h (26 knots, 30 mph)
    Range: 845 km (456 nmi, 525 mi)
    Service ceiling: 4,500 m (14,750 ft)
    Rate of climb: 3.5 m/s (700 ft/min)
    Power/mass: 0.136 kW/kg (0.083 hp/lb)

    Specifications
    Profile Kamov Ka-60 Kasatka.png
    Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 2003–2004,[1] Russian Helicopters[8]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: ** 12–15 passengers (Ka-62)
    14 infantry troops or 6 stretchers
    Internal 2,000 kg (4,400 lb)
    External 2,500 kg (5,500 lb)
    Length: 15.60 m (51.2 ft)
    Rotor diameter: 13.50 m (44.3 ft)
    Height: 4.60 m (15.1 ft)
    Disc area: 143.10 m² (1,540.3 sq ft)
    Max. takeoff weight: 6,500 kg (14,300 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Turbomeca Ardiden 3G turboshaft, 1,776 shp (1,324 kW) each
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 308 km/h (191 mph; 166 kn)
    Cruise speed: 290 km/h (180 mph; 160 kn)
    Range: 770 km (480 mi; 420 nmi) with main tanks
    Service ceiling: 5,700 m (18,700 ft) operational, 3,300 m (10,800 ft) hover

    You choose the firzt ever model stats but what about upgraded models many have had upgrades and change of fuel type. What about the other helicopters you mentioned eehnie? Compare there stats and You choose a helicopter that isn't even fully in production how many ka-60 are in service but seeing as you're choosing such a helicopter in its current stage of production then why don't you compare it with the TVS 2DTS and see how it compares I think you'll find it doesn't come close so you will be doing the eating. And of course eehnie you know better than the designers and Rostec who see the need for this type of aircraft as they are planning on putting it into production maybe just maybe they know the market better than you or I.

    Another one:

    Specifications (Mil-17-1A2)
    Data from [135]
    General characteristics
    Crew: Three: two pilots and one engineer
    Capacity: 24 troops or 12 stretchers or 4,000 kg (8,820 lb) cargo internally /5,000 kg (11,023 lb) externally slung.
    Length: 18.465 m (60 ft 7 in)
    Rotor diameter: 21.25 m (69 ft 10½ in)
    Height: 4.76 m (15 ft 7¼ in)
    Disc area: 356 m² (3,834 ft²)
    Empty weight: 7,489 kg (16,510 lb)
    Loaded weight: 11,100 kg (24,470 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 13,000 kg (28,660 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Klimov VK-2500PS-03 turboshaft, 2,400 hp () each
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 280 km/h (151 knots, 174 mph)
    Cruise speed: 260 km/h
    Range: 800 km (431 nmi, 497 mi) (with main fuel tanks)
    Service ceiling: 6,000 m (19,690 ft)
    Rate of climb: 8 m/s[citation needed] (1,575 ft/min)
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1358
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:29 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Taking into account the size of most of the countries, they are not tempted by the opton of longer range with really minimal payload.

    These countries tend to order helicopters. Russia prepared a good range of models to offer in the size cathegories around the size of the An-2:

    Ka-27 + Mi-8 families
    Ka-60/62
    Mi-Ansat
    Ka-226

    All them more successful than the aircrafts of the list of my previous comment, or with better prospect (in the case of the Ka-60/62

    None of those helicopters have the range of An-2 and nowhere near the TVS 2DTS. When TVS 2DTS comes into production and start selling I will be there to remind you to eat your words lol

    The range and other features of the veteran An-2 are perfectly matched by modern helicopters, that aditionally can avoid manpads. Then, if someone must begin eating own words, you can begin first.

    Specifications (An-2)
    Antonov An-2
    Data from Biplanes, Triplanes, and Seaplanes[1]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: 12 passengers
    Length: 12.4 m (40 ft 8 in)
    Wingspan:
    Upper wing: 18.2 m (59 ft 8 in)
    Lower wing: 14.2 m (46 ft 7 in)
    Height: 4.1 m (13 ft)
    Wing area: 71.52 m² (769.8 ft²)
    Empty weight: 3,300 kg (7,300 lb)
    Useful load: 2,140 kg (4,700 lb)
    Loaded weight: 5,440 kg (12,000 lb)
    Powerplant: 1 × Shvetsov ASh-62IR 9-cylinder supercharged radial engine, 750 kW (1,000 hp)
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 258 km/h (139 kn, 160 mph)
    Cruise speed: 190 km/h (100 kn, 120 mph)
    Stall speed: ~50 km/h (26 knots, 30 mph)
    Range: 845 km (456 nmi, 525 mi)
    Service ceiling: 4,500 m (14,750 ft)
    Rate of climb: 3.5 m/s (700 ft/min)
    Power/mass: 0.136 kW/kg (0.083 hp/lb)

    Specifications
    Profile Kamov Ka-60 Kasatka.png
    Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 2003–2004,[1] Russian Helicopters[8]
    General characteristics
    Crew: 1–2
    Capacity: ** 12–15 passengers (Ka-62)
    14 infantry troops or 6 stretchers
    Internal 2,000 kg (4,400 lb)
    External 2,500 kg (5,500 lb)
    Length: 15.60 m (51.2 ft)
    Rotor diameter: 13.50 m (44.3 ft)
    Height: 4.60 m (15.1 ft)
    Disc area: 143.10 m² (1,540.3 sq ft)
    Max. takeoff weight: 6,500 kg (14,300 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Turbomeca Ardiden 3G turboshaft, 1,776 shp (1,324 kW) each
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 308 km/h (191 mph; 166 kn)
    Cruise speed: 290 km/h (180 mph; 160 kn)
    Range: 770 km (480 mi; 420 nmi) with main tanks
    Service ceiling: 5,700 m (18,700 ft) operational, 3,300 m (10,800 ft) hover

    You choose the firzt ever model stats but what about upgraded models many have had upgrades and change of fuel type. What about the other helicopters you mentioned eehnie? Compare there stats and You choose a helicopter that isn't even fully in production how many ka-60 are in service but seeing as you're choosing such a helicopter in its current stage of production then why don't you compare it with the TVS 2DTS and see how it compares I think you'll find it doesn't come close so you will be doing the eating. And of course eehnie you know better than the designers and Rostec who see the need for this type of aircraft as they are planning on putting it into production maybe just maybe they know the market better than you or I.

    Another one:

    Specifications (Mil-17-1A2)
    Data from [135]
    General characteristics
    Crew: Three: two pilots and one engineer
    Capacity: 24 troops or 12 stretchers or 4,000 kg (8,820 lb) cargo internally /5,000 kg (11,023 lb) externally slung.
    Length: 18.465 m (60 ft 7 in)
    Rotor diameter: 21.25 m (69 ft 10½ in)
    Height: 4.76 m (15 ft 7¼ in)
    Disc area: 356 m² (3,834 ft²)
    Empty weight: 7,489 kg (16,510 lb)
    Loaded weight: 11,100 kg (24,470 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 13,000 kg (28,660 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Klimov VK-2500PS-03 turboshaft, 2,400 hp () each
    Performance
    Maximum speed: 280 km/h (151 knots, 174 mph)
    Cruise speed: 260 km/h
    Range: 800 km (431 nmi, 497 mi) (with main fuel tanks)
    Service ceiling: 6,000 m (19,690 ft)
    Rate of climb: 8 m/s[citation needed] (1,575 ft/min)


    Forgot the Ansat and ka-226. Still mi-17 doesn't have the range of TVS 2DTS. This is the new replacement and my original post did state is their a replacement and this is it. You still fail to see that there's a market for this type of aircraft. But like I said eehnie the Oracle knows best. Better than Rostec.
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2263
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:09 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Forgot the Ansat and ka-226. Still mi-17 doesn't have the range of TVS 2DTS. This is the new replacement and my original post did state is their a replacement and this is it. You still fail to see that there's a market for this type of aircraft. But like I said eehnie the Oracle knows best. Better than Rostec.

    No, I do not fail. There are not data, real data, from the markets that allow to think in a success of this new variant(?). Neither in Russia, neither outside of Russia. Successful regional aircrafts in the last decades are at least of he size cathegory of the Su-Superjet. This is the reality.

    With the time I had here similar discussions about the following aircrafts:

    Rysachok
    Be-200
    SR-10
    Il-112 (pending solution)

    And I did not fail. It is about to apply correctly the knowledge gained in the Engineering School. Only that.

    If the things go by logical terms:

    Diamond DA42: Seems likely to fail to be adopted by the Russian Armed Forces.
    L-410: Seems likely to have not a successful return to production in Russia.
    TVS 2DTS variant of the An-2: Seems likely to repeat not the success of the previous variants neither for military nor civil purposes.
    avatar
    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:22 pm

    eehnie wrote:

    The main production of the aircraft seems done in Poland. The production since 1991 would be very low.
    Also the production in China branded like Y-5 seems low, and it has been stopped in 2013. The demand of the Chinese aircraft has been low also in the last decades.

    China built a thousand Y-5 of varying types.  I didn't know Poland made them so long.  There is still a market for this aircraft with over 700 being flown.  A new and improved model could sell well. The aircraft is popular for crop dusting, bush pilots and parachuting thanks to it's slow speed characteristics. The DOSAFF and VVD would have an order book for 300 of a new aircraft.  I did most of my training jumps from the legendary An-2.  My uncle still owns one used for crop dusting  The farms need it for its high capacity and slow speed.  I could see the market go into the thousands.  It is not a competitor of helicopters which comes at a much higher price.  It is not ordered heavily today because it has outdated parts, this will fix that.
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1358
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    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:09 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Forgot the Ansat and ka-226. Still mi-17 doesn't have the range of TVS 2DTS. This is the new replacement and my original post did state is their a replacement and this is it. You still fail to see that there's a market for this type of aircraft. But like I said eehnie the Oracle knows best. Better than Rostec.

    No, I do not fail. There are not data, real data, from the markets that allow to think in a success of this new variant(?). Neither in Russia, neither outside of Russia. Successful regional aircrafts in the last decades are at least of he size cathegory of the Su-Superjet. This is the reality.

    With the time I had here similar discussions about the following aircrafts:

    Rysachok
    Be-200
    SR-10
    Il-112 (pending solution)

    And I did not fail. It is about to apply correctly the knowledge gained in the Engineering School. Only that.

    If the things go by logical terms:

    Diamond DA42: Seems likely to fail to be adopted by the Russian Armed Forces.
    L-410: Seems likely to have not a successful return to production in Russia.
    TVS 2DTS variant of the An-2: Seems likely to repeat not the success of the previous variants neither for military nor civil purposes.


    You eehnie the Oracle has failef and FAIL massively.
    An-2 is a successful aircraft it's long continued service and number produced is a testament to that

    Rostec have seen the need and the gap in the market for such a replacement hence the investment into building a facility.

    Vladimir79 also brought up another valid point the cost is much cheaper. As well roles. The su superjet is a completely different aircraft for a different role I can believe your suggesting that it's in the same league.

    As for L410 there's new version being planned
    L-410NG although not built in Russia but had its russian certificate signed off last year. And with Russia in the process of building the facilities for the TVS 2DTS as well sanctions getting thrown at them constantly these are the reasons there not producing L410

    The Chinese Y-12 which is similar and in comparison to L410 is still in production and used by a multitude of countries and organisations
    avatar
    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:58 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:

    The main production of the aircraft seems done in Poland. The production since 1991 would be very low.
    Also the production in China branded like Y-5 seems low, and it has been stopped in 2013. The demand of the Chinese aircraft has been low also in the last decades.

    China built a thousand Y-5 of varying types.  I didn't know Poland made them so long.  There is still a market for this aircraft with over 700 being flown.  A new and improved model could sell well. The aircraft is popular for crop dusting, bush pilots and parachuting thanks to it's slow speed characteristics. The DOSAFF and VVD would have an order book for 300 of a new aircraft.  I did most of my training jumps from the legendary An-2.  My uncle still owns one used for crop dusting  The farms need it for its high capacity and slow speed.  I could see the market go into the thousands.  It is not a competitor of helicopters which comes at a much higher price.  It is not ordered heavily today because it has outdated parts, this will fix that.

    Spare parts market and second hand market can work still, and the Russian Armed Forces can take advantage of it, providing spare parts to the civil makets, but those who are purchasing one used An-2, very likely can not afford a new aircraft.

    The main problem of these aircrafts in civil makets is the profitability. It is significantly easier to make a profitable service with the purchase of a very low cost used An-2, than with a new aircraft of the same cathegory.

    This type of aircrafts are losing even the agricultural market for new units with the apparition of modern UAVs, that can be expensive in a first stage, but will have better price in the long term, because structurally the UAVs allow lower costs of production and operation.

    With the time, with the exhaustion of the oldest aircrafts, it is likely that parachute training evolves to situations closer to the reality of the war operations.
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2263
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    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:26 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Forgot the Ansat and ka-226. Still mi-17 doesn't have the range of TVS 2DTS. This is the new replacement and my original post did state is their a replacement and this is it. You still fail to see that there's a market for this type of aircraft. But like I said eehnie the Oracle knows best. Better than Rostec.

    No, I do not fail. There are not data, real data, from the markets that allow to think in a success of this new variant(?). Neither in Russia, neither outside of Russia. Successful regional aircrafts in the last decades are at least of he size cathegory of the Su-Superjet. This is the reality.

    With the time I had here similar discussions about the following aircrafts:

    Rysachok
    Be-200
    SR-10
    Il-112 (pending solution)

    And I did not fail. It is about to apply correctly the knowledge gained in the Engineering School. Only that.

    If the things go by logical terms:

    Diamond DA42: Seems likely to fail to be adopted by the Russian Armed Forces.
    L-410: Seems likely to have not a successful return to production in Russia.
    TVS 2DTS variant of the An-2: Seems likely to repeat not the success of the previous variants neither for military nor civil purposes.


    You eehnie the Oracle has failef and FAIL massively.
    An-2 is a successful aircraft it's long continued service and number produced is a testament to that

    Rostec have seen the need and the gap in the market for such a replacement hence the investment into building a facility.

    Vladimir79 also brought up another valid point the cost is much cheaper. As well roles. The su superjet is a completely different aircraft for a different role I can believe your suggesting that it's in the same league.

    As for L410 there's new version being planned
    L-410NG although not built in Russia but had its russian certificate signed off last year. And with Russia in the process of building the facilities for the TVS 2DTS as well sanctions getting thrown at them constantly these are the reasons there not producing L410

    The Chinese Y-12 which is similar and in comparison to L410 is still in production and used by a multitude of countries and organisations

    Aircraft Industries, the company that produces the Let L-410 filed for bankruptcy in 2016. Historically it was a Czech company recently controled by new Russian owners that wanted to move the production of this aircraft to Russia. The main reason for this bankruptcy was the lack of orders for new aircrafts and monetary disadvantages caused by the depreciation of the Rouble.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1889713.html

    Sued for bankruptcy of Czech company Aircraft Industries

    bmpd
    May 8th, 2016
    As reported on May 3, 2016 on the web resource aviaforum.ru , Czech aircraft company Aero Vodochody Aerospace today [May 3] filed a lawsuit recognizing the insolvent of another Czech aircraft company - Aircraft Industries (formerly Let, fully controlled by JSC "Ural Mining and Metallurgical Company "(UMMC), owned by Iskander Makhmudov) .

    According to the public, the total debt of Aircraft Industries exceeds 400 million kroons (14.8 million euros), including 38.3 million kroons (1.42 million euros) to Aero Vodochody. The problems of Aircraft Industries are related to the lack of orders and the sharp rise in price of L-410 aircraft on the Russian market due to the fall in the ruble against the dollar.


    l-410_uktus

    The last aircraft delivered to Russia by Aircraft Industries L-410UVP-E20 - board with serial number 3012 and temporary Czech registration OK-JPI, received in February 2016 by UMMC charter airline Uktus, based in Koltsovo (Ekaterinburg) (c) Aircraft Industries (via www.ato.ru )



    Ilona Plashkova, CEO of Aircraft Industries, said: "I am not authorized to comment on this situation, we will be able to make an official statement tomorrow, when the owners of the company arrive in Kunovitsy." I contacted them, informed them of the situation and expect a response from Russia. "

    Teresa Vrublova, representative of Aero Vodochody, said: "The issue of filing a lawsuit was a long time ago, but as a result of negotiations with Aircraft Industries this step was unavoidable.Currently, Aircraft Industries owes us 38.3 million kroner for the supplied L -410. Due to the financial problems of Aircraft Industries in December 2015, we jointly worked out a debt repayment schedule, but Aircraft Industries was unable to fulfill it.Aero executives offered to hold an additional round of negotiations with Aircraft Industries, but the shareholders of the company this proposal was rejected. "


    The bmpd comment . As our blog has already reported , Aircraft Industries is experiencing serious difficulties due to a sharp decline in sales of L-410UVP-E20 light passenger aircraft manufactured by the plant, primarily in the Russian market - the main market for these aircraft - and the corresponding termination of orders for these aircraft on the part of Russian small regional air carriers, which themselves in no small part found themselves in a difficult financial situation. Financing of the acquisition of L-410UVP-E20 aircraft by these carriers in recent years was mainly carried out by the authorities of the Russian regions, which actually stopped allocating funds for this because of the economic downturn. The purchase of L-410UVP-E20 aircraft by the Russian Ministry of Defense has also been discontinued .

    From 2008 to the present, Aircraft Industries produced 84 L-410UVP-E20 aircraft, of which at least 46 have been delivered to Russian customers. At the same time, comments on the web-site aviaforum.ru indicate the high cost of operating the L-410UVP aircraft -E20 in Russian conditions, caused by the high cost of spare parts delivered from the Czech Republic and Czech service. As a result, it is estimated, in Russia currently no more than a dozen L-410UVP-E20 aircraft are actually operated (without cars of the Ministry of Defense of Russia).

    The financial issues likely have been solved with public help, but the lack of orders has not been solved, and a good number of the last units of L-410 produced in the Czech Republic, remain in the hands of the company that produced them, without a delivery to a external client, like you can see here:

    https://russianplanes.net/planelist/Let/L-410

    Without a sale of these aircrafts previously produced, the launch of the production in Russia is very very difficult.

    But of course, no-one of the real data have a meaning for you. You prefer to ignore the real data. Your words and insults are empty of reality.
    avatar
    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:38 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Forgot the Ansat and ka-226. Still mi-17 doesn't have the range of TVS 2DTS. This is the new replacement and my original post did state is their a replacement and this is it. You still fail to see that there's a market for this type of aircraft. But like I said eehnie the Oracle knows best. Better than Rostec.

    No, I do not fail. There are not data, real data, from the markets that allow to think in a success of this new variant(?). Neither in Russia, neither outside of Russia. Successful regional aircrafts in the last decades are at least of he size cathegory of the Su-Superjet. This is the reality.

    With the time I had here similar discussions about the following aircrafts:

    Rysachok
    Be-200
    SR-10
    Il-112 (pending solution)

    And I did not fail. It is about to apply correctly the knowledge gained in the Engineering School. Only that.

    If the things go by logical terms:

    Diamond DA42: Seems likely to fail to be adopted by the Russian Armed Forces.
    L-410: Seems likely to have not a successful return to production in Russia.
    TVS 2DTS variant of the An-2: Seems likely to repeat not the success of the previous variants neither for military nor civil purposes.


    You eehnie the Oracle has failef and FAIL massively.
    An-2 is a successful aircraft it's long continued service and number produced is a testament to that

    Rostec have seen the need and the gap in the market for such a replacement hence the investment into building a facility.

    Vladimir79 also brought up another valid point the cost is much cheaper. As well roles. The su superjet is a completely different aircraft for a different role I can believe your suggesting that it's in the same league.

    As for L410 there's new version being planned
    L-410NG although not built in Russia but had its russian certificate signed off last year. And with Russia in the process of building the facilities for the TVS 2DTS as well sanctions getting thrown at them constantly these are the reasons there not producing L410

    The Chinese Y-12 which is similar and in comparison to L410 is still in production and used by a multitude of countries and organisations

    Aircraft Industries, the company that produces the Let L-410 filed for bankruptcy in 2016. Historically it was a Czech company recently controled by new Russian owners that wanted to move the production of this aircraft to Russia. The main reason for this bankruptcy was the lack of orders for new aircrafts and monetary disadvantages caused by the depreciation of the Rouble.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1889713.html

    Sued for bankruptcy of Czech company Aircraft Industries

    bmpd
    May 8th, 2016
    As reported on May 3, 2016 on the web resource aviaforum.ru , Czech aircraft company Aero Vodochody Aerospace today [May 3] filed a lawsuit recognizing the insolvent of another Czech aircraft company - Aircraft Industries (formerly Let, fully controlled by JSC "Ural Mining and Metallurgical Company "(UMMC), owned by Iskander Makhmudov) .

    According to the public, the total debt of Aircraft Industries exceeds 400 million kroons (14.8 million euros), including 38.3 million kroons (1.42 million euros) to Aero Vodochody. The problems of Aircraft Industries are related to the lack of orders and the sharp rise in price of L-410 aircraft on the Russian market due to the fall in the ruble against the dollar.


    l-410_uktus

    The last aircraft delivered to Russia by Aircraft Industries L-410UVP-E20 - board with serial number 3012 and temporary Czech registration OK-JPI, received in February 2016 by UMMC charter airline Uktus, based in Koltsovo (Ekaterinburg) (c) Aircraft Industries (via www.ato.ru )



    Ilona Plashkova, CEO of Aircraft Industries, said: "I am not authorized to comment on this situation, we will be able to make an official statement tomorrow, when the owners of the company arrive in Kunovitsy." I contacted them, informed them of the situation and expect a response from Russia. "

    Teresa Vrublova, representative of Aero Vodochody, said: "The issue of filing a lawsuit was a long time ago, but as a result of negotiations with Aircraft Industries this step was unavoidable.Currently, Aircraft Industries owes us 38.3 million kroner for the supplied L -410. Due to the financial problems of Aircraft Industries in December 2015, we jointly worked out a debt repayment schedule, but Aircraft Industries was unable to fulfill it.Aero executives offered to hold an additional round of negotiations with Aircraft Industries, but the shareholders of the company this proposal was rejected. "


    The bmpd comment . As our blog has already reported , Aircraft Industries is experiencing serious difficulties due to a sharp decline in sales of L-410UVP-E20 light passenger aircraft manufactured by the plant, primarily in the Russian market - the main market for these aircraft - and the corresponding termination of orders for these aircraft on the part of Russian small regional air carriers, which themselves in no small part found themselves in a difficult financial situation. Financing of the acquisition of L-410UVP-E20 aircraft by these carriers in recent years was mainly carried out by the authorities of the Russian regions, which actually stopped allocating funds for this because of the economic downturn. The purchase of L-410UVP-E20 aircraft by the Russian Ministry of Defense has also been discontinued .

    From 2008 to the present, Aircraft Industries produced 84 L-410UVP-E20 aircraft, of which at least 46 have been delivered to Russian customers. At the same time, comments on the web-site aviaforum.ru indicate the high cost of operating the L-410UVP aircraft -E20 in Russian conditions, caused by the high cost of spare parts delivered from the Czech Republic and Czech service. As a result, it is estimated, in Russia currently no more than a dozen L-410UVP-E20 aircraft are actually operated (without cars of the Ministry of Defense of Russia).

    The financial issues likely have been solved with public help, but the lack of orders has not been solved, and a good number of the last units of L-410 produced in the Czech Republic, remain in the hands of the company that produced them, without a delivery to a external client, like you can see here:

    https://russianplanes.net/planelist/Let/L-410

    Without a sale of these aircrafts previously produced, the launch of the production in Russia is very very difficult.

    But of course, no-one of the real data have a meaning for you. You prefer to ignore the real data. Your words and insults are empty of reality.


    Your last sentence sums you up perfectly you fail to accept the words of Rostec on the TVS 2DTS. Your quite simply a bigot.

    At the end of the day if the TVS 2DTS doesn't get built in the time frame given I will eat my words and if it does you can eat your words this I am happy to agree on.

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

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      Current date/time is Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:57 am