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    Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

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    George1

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:54 pm

    Russia may start developing new airdrop platforms based on Syrian campaign experience

    The lifting capacity of such platforms could vary from 500 kg to 1.5 tonnes


    MOSCOW, December 12 /TASS/. The Scientific Research Institute of Parachute Construction (NIIPS, which is affiliated with the Technodinamika holdings) will use the Syrian experience to design a new cargo airdrop platform in 2017, the enterprise’s CEO, Dmitry Tretyakov, told journalists.

    "We are planning to launch new research and development works to create a cheap cargo platform for the delivery of humanitarian cargoes and perhaps ammunition to areas of military hostilities," Tretyakov said.

    Earlier, NIIPS reported that the lifting capacity of such platforms could vary from 500 kg to 1.5 tonnes.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/918707


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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:53 pm

    George1 wrote:Earlier it was reported that Russian Defense Ministry plans to upgrade 41 marching military transport aircraft Il-76MD to the level of IL-76MD-M.

    That's very low for a country the size and needs of Russia.
    Do they plan for more of the new-built MDM-90A as well? If not they're in deep trouble quite soon.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:13 pm



    Last edited by eehnie on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:33 am; edited 4 times in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:50 am

    That's very low for a country the size and needs of Russia.

    That would be in addition to the new production aircraft, so they are pretty much upgrading the old existing aircraft to a similar standard to the new models they are producing now.

    That should improve commonality within the fleet.


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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:04 am

    GarryB wrote:
    That's very low for a country the size and needs of Russia.

    That would be in addition to the new production aircraft, so they are pretty much upgrading the old existing aircraft to a similar standard to the new models they are producing now.

    That should improve commonality within the fleet.

    He's just hyperventilating irrationally, much of the work can be done much cheaper and easier with the extensive rail network.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:15 am

    In the short term there are plenty of existing aircraft that include An24, An26, An32, and An72 in the light payload range... 500kgs to 6 tons or so.

    The new MTA replacement for the An-12 and the Il-112/114, replacement for light aircraft, and the Ryashock (spelling) which will replace the An-2 are nearing production, but the aircraft they are replacing can soldier on for a few years yet.

    The new plans for a unified family of transport aircraft is interesting and I hope they go ahead with it... having all Russian replacements for the An22, An124, and An225 would be very useful... and having an export model that could be sold to allies would also be a good step forward...



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    franco

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  franco on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:56 pm

    A look at the programs under development for light and medium military transports plus a heavy aircraft refueling tanker;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2376724.html


    Last edited by franco on Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:07 pm

    (IL-214). Continue to "Ilyushin" and work on other traditional topics predpriyatiya- military transport aircraft. Running in a series of modernized heavy Il-76MD-90A, coming on stage of assembly of the first flight of IL-112V, the company "IL" returned the draft medium military transport aircraft with a payload of 20-25 tonnes in the area. This project has repeatedly changed its name. Back in the 1990s, we began to study the machine of this dimension under the symbol Il-214. Then, in the 2000s it created a joint Russian-Indian project multi-purpose transport aircraft (MTS), called in India Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA). However, for reasons beyond the "Ilyushin" reasons India is suspended participation in this program.

    "Then there were a lot of specifications- altitude airfields in the mountains up to 5 kilometers, hot, plus they were going to put on it some extraordinary number of weapons, including bombs and guns, - says Olga Kruglyakova.- like it to be a shock, shot , he bombed, tucked and refueled, but still loads carried. We tried to convince them that only the aircraft can be made with so many problems that it will be bad to perform all these functions. "

    Now Russian Aerospace forces returned to the idea of ​​creating an aircraft in this dimension. "The plane they
    needed instead grown old An-12, - says Kruglyakova.- decided to launch a full-scale R & D in 2017. Specifications, almost completely signed. For us, this plane will be easier than with the Indians.
    If we take the Russian terms of reference, there is much thoughtful."

    One problem with the MTA previous project was the main power-plant. For such special requirements
    put forward the Indian side, it had to be put on the aircraft engine PS-90. However, this engine with a thrust of 16 tons was clearly more needs to machines designed for 20-ton load of transport. Without specific Indian requirements for the current WABT well suited engine PD-14 produced currently in the United Engine Corporation (part of the state corporation "Rostec") for passenger aircraft MS-21. As the first phase of "Ilyushin" offers a version with the PS-90.

    "First, we proposed a purge complete model aircraft with PS-90 and PD-14 - they have a gondola different diameter, - says Olga Kruglyakova.- If full WABT will be launched in 2017, it will begin with a preliminary design of the aircraft. But it is impossible to get out without purging the full model. Therefore, the idea was proposed to start blowing a faster rate. "

    Moreover, "IL" offers to set WABT three-channel-by-wire control system, one main channel, second- simplified backup last package. This will be possible to provide a six-fold redundancy of the system.

    Future prospects. It leads to "Ilyushin" and elaboration of new cars high and extra high capacity. At the beginning of 2016, work began on a promising heavy military transport aircraft. We are considering the option of the liner with a 100-ton payload, then a 80-ton. The variants cargo arrangement in two rows, with a passage there between. Customers with the expressed wishes of the cruising speed of 850 km / h.

    "But there are no miracles - sighs Olga Kruglyakova.- With this fuselage for him to be a huge wing with a huge mass. Then it turned out that we only carry themselves. Then we made a proposal: to make the base is 80 tons. If you add an insert into the fuselage for example IL-76MF- get a 100-ton version. For a 60-ton section of the fuselage on the contrary cut out. And no two rows of stowage. "

    Considering the issue and heavy aircraft with a load capacity of over 100 tons. But this will require a powerful new domestic engine. At the present time the United Engine Corporation is preparing the creation of high-thrust turbofan engines for future aircraft. According to the chief designer of PD engine family in "Aircraft Engine" Igor Maximov, in the line of the large base of engines is expected to make a PD-35 with a thrust of 35 tons. Such motor will allow to speak about perspective superheavy transport ship.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2376724.html[/b]


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    franco

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  franco on Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:38 am

    To date, the Ministry of Defense operates 14 Tu-154B-2 (1979-1985 model years), seven Tu-154M (1986-2012 years), 36 Tu-134A and Tu-134A-3 (1975-1983 years), as well as nine Il-62 (1977-1992 years).

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2384992.html

    NOTE: I thought the 15 An-148 was to replace the Tu-134. Guess not.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:09 am

    http://www.uacrussia.ru/upload/iblock/27b/27ba698afdb95ed15bda3894aa3839dd.pdf

    It is interesting to see.

    While it is not updated for today, it is updated to the end of 2015, we can see intereting things here.

    Cargo aircrafts:

    - PTS (also called Ermak, Il-106): Project with 3 sizes (payloads of 80 tons, 160 tons and 240 tons) covered today by the An-22, An-124 and An-225 (this last not present in the Russian armed forces). Note that this project is called PTS, not PAK-TA. They are different projects and in my opinion are perfectly compatible because the PTS is to use in non-contested areas, while the IL-PAK-TA is to use in fast operations also in contested areas. I consider very interesting the PTS cargo project that would cover the three biggest cathegories covered today by the An-22, An-124 and An-225 (the last not present today in the Russian armed forces). I consider the philosophy very good, modern and efficient. A sure success.

    - Il-214 (MTA still in the report): The comments are oudated by the evolution of the project in 2016. With this project in phase of design still, I would consider likely and very interesting that this project becomes also adapted to the PTS Ermak philosophy of three sizes for three engine configurations. In this case for sizes of 20 tons, 40 tons and 60 tons, covering the cathegories covered today by the An-10/12, Tu-204/214 (not a cargo aircraft) and the Il-76/78/Be A-50. Taking into account that the reports talk about 2 engines for the Il-214, would be doable. In every case, a sure success.

    - Il-112: I tend to think that the cargo transported in aircrafts should be packed (grouped) in bigger units than the capacity of this aircraft. 20 tons seems a good size for the basis of the range. Smaller sizes, including the An-72/74 class and the An-24/26/30/32 class, likely can be solved with new  transport helicopters (both of size between the Mi-26/27 and the Mi-8 ). Not sure if the Il-112 will succeed.

    Airliners:

    - Comac C929 (Wide-body airliner): Again, this is not the project called PAK-TA. It seems to be a project of long haul, which means to be in the weight/size class of the Il-86/80/96, an aircraft that is not exhausted still. It would be a project for long range (>10000 Km) with high passenger capacity (over 250). After 2025, a sure success, before maybe a little redundant, eating part of the cycle of life of the Il-86/80/96.

    - Frigate Ecojet: Not included in the report, but also in development as a wide body project in the weight/size class of the Il-62. It seems to be designed for mid range (between 5000 Km and 10000 Km) with high passenger capacity (over 250), but would be able to cover also a second configuration for long range (>10000 Km) and mid passenger capacity (between 125 and 250). A sure success where some delay would not be a problem.

    - MS-21 (also called Yak-242):The same. It seems to be a project for mid range (between 5000 Km and 10000 Km) with mid passenger capacity (between 125 and 250), wich means to be in the weight/size class of the Tu-204/214, an aircraft that is not exhausted still. After 2025, a sure success, before maybe a little redundant, eating part of the cycle of life of the Tu-204/214.

    Order of priority for non-combat air transport in my view:

    0.- Su-SJ100 (I expect some order from the Russian Armed Forces in the short term).

    1.- Mi-46 (in the An-24/26/30/32 size class with around 10 tons payload).
    2.- Il-214 40 or Tu-330 or Be A-40/42 (in the Tu-204/214 size class with around 40 tons payload).
    3.- Ka-102 (in the An-72/74 size class with around 15 tons payload).
    4.- PTS 80 or Il-106 (in the An-22 size class with around 80 tons payload).
    5.- Il-214 or Tu-230 (in the An-10/12 size class with around 20 tons payload).
    6.- PTS 160 (in the An-124 size class with around 160 tons payload).
    7.- Il-214 60 (in the Il-76/78 Be-A50 size class with around 60 tons payload).

    8.- Il-90 or Frigate Ecojet (in the Il-62 size class for double configuration: 1 mid passenger capacity + long range, 2 high passenger capacity + mid range).
    9.- Tu-304 or Comac C929 (in the Il-86/80/96 size class for high passenger capacity + long range).
    10.- New Helicopter (in the Mi-26/27 size class with around 20 tons payload.
    11.- MS-21/Yak-242 (in the Tu-204/214 size class for mid passenger capacity + mid range).

    While it would be interesting to see the first group in serial production before the end of 2025, the last group can be finnished between 2026 and 2050. The Il-PAK-TA is not in the list because would be for air transport in contested areas.


    Last edited by eehnie on Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:06 am; edited 18 times in total
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:07 pm

    The State of VTA

    News on the Il-76MD-90A program provides an opportunity to look at the state of Russia’s VTA, or Military-Transport Aviation.

    The Il-76MD-90A is a new aircraft, an updated version of the venerable Il-76 transport produced by the Soviets in large numbers during the 1970s and 1980s.

    According to most sources, the VTA is supposed to acquire 39 Il-76MD-90A transports by 2020 [or 2021?]. This may have been slashed to 30, others say. Manufacturer Aviastar-SP reports it has ten of the aircraft in various stages of assembly.


    The new transport was at TsAGI in Moscow recently for static structural testing. Prior to that, it conducted flight tests from the Aviastar-SP production facility at Ulyanovsk-Vostochnyy.

    Besides new PS-90 engines, the Il-76MD-90A has an all-glass digital cockpit, new flight controls, navigation, and communication systems. The airframe and landing gear have been reinforced. It lifts 60 tons while reportedly consuming less fuel.

    The original Il-76 had slightly greater cargo capacity than the U.S. C-141. It’s critical to the mobility of Russia’s Airborne Troops (VDV) and their air-droppable equipment. Civilian versions of the Il-76 remain in use worldwide.

    At present, VTA may operate about 100 Il-76M or Il-76MD, and perhaps ten An-124 transports. But the number of operational aircraft could be as low as 60 Il-76 variants and a handful of An-124.


    At the outset of the current GPV in 2011, the air forces hoped to procure 100 or more new and updated heavy transport aircraft. The current inventory needs complete replacement in the 2020s and early 2030s. But they have relatively little to show well into 2017.

    Together with 39 (or 30?) Il-76MD-90A transports, VTA plans to acquire 30 Il-76MDM aircraft. It’s a renovated Il-76MD with its original engines but the glass cockpit and other updates from the Il-76MD-90A.

    Cooperation with the Antonov design bureau and its production facilities is off the table now that military-industrial ties with Ukraine have been severed. Observers once looked for Russia’s VTA to buy 30-50 An-70 transports and the same number of Il-76MD variants and updates.

    They also anticipated that Moscow would buy 20 new An-124 aircraft and modernize quite a few existing ones. No alternative for replacing the super-heavy transport has been proffered.

    The PAK TA (future aircraft system — transport aviation) remains a mirage. Moscow could mobilize Aviastar-SP to renew production of the An-124, but it would require a lot of resources and time, plus the facility will already have its hands full with the Il-76MD-90A, etc.

    There is also the question of VTA’s smaller transports which are ancient and in dire need of replacement. The MOD has settled on procurement of 48 turboprop Il-112V aircraft in GPV 2018-2025 to replace some of its aged An-26 fleet. This decision came after it abandoned efforts to get Antonov’s An-140. The Russians reportedly will continue to develop the turbojet Il-214 medium transport despite India’s decision to bow out of the once joint effort. But there’s little tangible in this program to date.

    As if on cue, an anonymous aviation industry source has spilled to Interfaks-AVN on developments in the Il-76MD-90A transport program. Remarkable timing. Can you say reflexive control? But one mustn’t look a gift horse in the mouth. The author is grateful for all info.

    The source says Aviastar-SP plans to complete three of the new transports this year. It has already finished five, according to him.

    Two Il-76MD-90A aircraft have gone to the MOD (the VKS presumably). Two have gone to Beriev in Taganrog for “reequipping into special designation aircraft.” AWACS and aerial tankers presumably. The fifth is with Ilyushin for development and testing.

    Interfaks-AVN’s source reports that the 2012 contract for 39 Il-76MD-90A transports is still in effect.

    By 2025, Aviastar-SP intends to produce 170 aircraft in the Il-76MD-90A family. By 2021, it aims to make 18 per year and 21 each year after 2021. It is hoping for 65 export orders.

    If you’re still reading in Ulyanovsk or Moscow, we’d all love to hear anything about plans to replace or produce more An-124 transports.

    https://russiandefpolicy.blog/2017/02/26/the-state-of-vta/

    https://russiandefpolicy.blog/2017/02/28/the-state-of-vta-addendum/


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:30 pm


    Transport fleet should be restocked based on urgency and right now light transports are a priority because current ones are rapidly reaching expiration date.

    They should develop replacements for all classes but sequentially not simultaneously. And it also depends on when new engines are ready. This engine issue is something everyone keeps forgetting about.

    1) Il-112. This one is almost done and it uses new turboprop. Once it is sent into production they should move on to next class.

    2) Il-214. They tried to develop this with India simultaneously with Il-112 but with Indians being their usual bitchy selves it was put on the back burner. Now with PD-14 engines almost here and Il-112 development nearing completion there should be room to focus on this model.

    3) PAK-TA. This will not be moving anywhere until new engine is ready and heavy transport fleet is in much better condition than light one. So no rush.
    Also from what I can tell there are a few of An-124 in storage that could be given overhaul and upgrade. One formerly private owned was recently overhauled and returned to service after sitting on the tarmac since 2008. They could do this with more of them. Would be enough to last until PAK-TA is up and running.

       



    As for Il-76MD-90 that one is good to go. Now they need to focus on other models.


    One question: would it make more sense to use Il-96 as AWACS platforms instead of Il-76? They are big enough and do not need to have ability to land on unpaved runways. Also, it would free up new Il-76 for other uses.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:16 pm

    Data by weight class, updated in 2017 from Russianplanes.net and other complementary sources:

    -

    Active 010 Reserve 016 Production 1984-Today An-124

    Active 005 Reserve 000 Production 1979-Today Il-86/80/96
    Active 006 Reserve 003 Production 1966-1975 An-22

    Active 146 Reserve 071 Production 1973-Today Il-76/78/A-50
    Active 007 Reserve 002 Production 1966-Today Il-62

    Active 004 Reserve 000 Production 1990-Today Tu-204/214
    Active 018 Reserve 003 Production 1969-Today Tu-154

    Active 000 Reserve 000 Production 2010-Today Su-Superjet100
    Active 031 Reserve 054 Production 1980-Today Mi-26/27
    Active 000 Reserve 000 Production 1976-2003 Yak-42/142: http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Yakovlev/Yak-42
    Active 064 Reserve 102 Production 1964-1989 Tu-134
    Active 048 Reserve 007 Production 1959-1985 Il-18/20/22/24
    Active 060 Reserve 059 Production 1957-1972 An-10/12

    Active 028 Reserve 019 Production 1985-Today An-72/71/74
    Active 000 Reserve 019 Production 1960-1980 Mi-6/10

    Active 159 Reserve 145 Production 1962-Today An-24/26/30/32

    Active 000 Reserve 000 Production 2017-Today Mi-38
    Active 089 Reserve 000 Production 2009-Today Yak-130
    Active 130 Reserve 074 Production 1980-Today Ka-27/28/29/31/32

    Active 000 Reserve 000 Production 2017-Today Ka-60/62

    Active 036 Reserve 000 Production 2013-Today Mi-Ansat
    Active 041 Reserve 000 Production 2004-Today Ka-226
    Active 000 Reserve 000 Production 1995-Today Il-103: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-103
    Active 000 Reserve 000 Production 1985-Today Yak-55/54/56: https://www.aviaport.ru/directory/aviation/jak54/
    Active 000 Reserve 000 Production 1984-Today Su-26/29/31: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-29
    Active 099 Reserve 240 Production 1977-1998 Yak-52
    Active 015 Reserve 005 Production 1966-1993 Mi-2
    Active 036 Reserve 038 Production 1950-1991 An-2

    Including all the most modern Russian and Sovietic successful aircrafts and helicopters with production over 50 units, plus the Mi-38 and the Ka-60/62 which mass production begins now, are expected to be a success, and have been ordered by the Russian Armed Forces. Not included foreign aircrafts that are likely to disappear soon from the Russian Armed forces (by sale, transfer to other governmental ministries or other way):

    Active 010 Reserve 000 Production 2009-Today An-148/158/178 in the weignt clas of the An-72/74
    Active 009 Reserve 000 Production 1997-Today An-140 in the weight class of the An-24/26/30/32
    Active 029 Reserve 070 Production 1970-2015 L-410 in the weight class of the Ka-60/62
    Active 200 Reserve 000 Production 1977-1998 L-39 in the weight class of the Mi-Ansat

    Green means production available for Russia. Blue means unlikely to reach the Russian Armed Forces. Purple is related with foreign aircrafts likely to disappear soon, and red is related with the proportion of units in active service or reserve produced in 1975 or before. Totally red means all the units in the Russian Armed Forces produced in 1975 or before. In the case of the An-2 only 2 units have been produced after 1975. In the case of the Mi-2 the number of units produced after 1975 is exactly the number of units in active service.

    Between the 6 biggest cathegories aircrafts are dominant. Between the 5 smaller cathegories the helicopters would be dominant despite to be not present in all the cathegories, taking into account the success of the Mi-26/27 (bigger than the success of the An-72/71/74, with higher number of units produced). In the future I would expect:

    - Transport aircrafts to be successful in the 2nd to 6th cathegories (since 20 tons payload).
    - Airliner aircrafts to be successful in the 3rd to 6th cathegories (since 95-100 passengers + mid range >5000Km).
    - Helicopters to be successful in the 6th to 11th cathegories (until 20 tons payload).
    - Trainer aircrafts to be successful in the 9th and 11th cathegories.
    - Trainer helicopters to be successful in the 11th cathegory.

    The success is uncertain for the rest of the options. As overall rule, I would avoid to invest on them.

    According to this and recovering the results about priorities of my previous comment, that come from here, this would be the order of priority for non-combat aircrafts and helicopters:

    0.- Su-SJ100 (I expect some order from the Russian Armed Forces in the short term).

    1.- Mi-46 (in the An-24/26/30/32 size class with around 10 tons payload).
    2.- Il-214 40 or Tu-330 or Be A-40/42 (in the Tu-204/214 size class with around 40 tons payload).
    3.- Ka-102 (in the An-72/74 size class with around 15 tons payload).
    4.- PTS 80 or Il-106 (in the An-22 size class with around 80 tons payload).
    5.- Il-214 or Tu-230 (in the An-10/12 size class with around 20 tons payload).
    6.- PTS 160 (in the An-124 size class with around 160 tons payload).
    7.- Il-214 60 (in the Il-76/78 Be-A50 size class with around 60 tons payload).

    8.- Il-90 or Frigate Ecojet (in the Il-62 size class for double configuration: 1 mid passenger capacity + long range, 2 high passenger capacity + mid range).
    9.- Tu-304 or Comac C929 (in the Il-86/80/96 size class for high passenger capacity + long range).
    10.- New Helicopter (in the Mi-26/27 size class with around 20 tons payload.
    11.- MS-21/Yak-242 (in the Tu-204/214 size class for mid passenger capacity + mid range).

    While it would be interesting to see the first group in serial production before the end of 2025, the last group can be finnished between 2026 and 2050.

    Note that the PTS 240 would come as consecuence of the three sizes philosophy, but would not be prioritary in my view. The Il-PAK-TA is not in the list because would be for air transport in contested areas.

    I would expect the An-22 to be used in Syria until to be totally exhausted in the short term.


    Last edited by eehnie on Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:20 am; edited 20 times in total
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  eehnie on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:39 pm

    eehnie wrote:Between the 6 biggest cathegories aircrafts are dominant. Between the 5 smaller cathegories the helicopters would be dominant despite to be not present in all the cathegories, taking into account the success of the Mi-26/27 (bigger than the success of the An-72/71/74, with higher number of units produced). In the future I would expect:

    - Transport aircrafts to be successful in the 2nd to 6th cathegories (since 20 tons payload).
    - Airliner aircrafts to be successful in the 3rd to 6th cathegories (since 95-100 passengers + mid range >5000Km).
    - Helicopters to be successful in the 6th to 11th cathegories (until 20 tons payload).
    - Trainer aircrafts to be successful in the 9th and 11th cathegories.
    - Trainer helicopters to be successful in the 11th cathegory.

    The success is uncertain for the rest of the options. As overall rule, I would avoid to invest on them.

    I hope the people can see in this comment that not all the projects of aircraft and helicopter can be successful, that not all the projects of aircraft and helicopter must be ordered by the Russian Armed Forces. And even, in some cases there are configurations that allow not the success of a single project today. Finally I hope the people can see how there is a strong correlation between the success of the aircrafts and helicopters, and its presence in the Russian Armed Forces.

    Other options have been tested in Russia out of the quoted scheme. The last and most recent examples of Russian projects out of this scheme:

    1st cathegory Airliner aircraft: KR-860 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_KR-860
    1st cathegory Transport aircraft: An-225 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Antonov/An-225
    2nd cathegory Airliner aircraft:
    4th cathegory Helicopter: Mi-32 http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/mi-32.php
    4th cathegory Helicopter: Yak-60 http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/yak-60.php
    5th cathegory Helicopter: V-12 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Mil/V-12
    5th cathegory Helicopter: V-16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_V-16

    7th cathegory Airliner aircraft: An-148/158/178 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Antonov/An-148
    7th cathegory Transport aircraft: Be-200 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Beriev/Be-200
    7th cathegory Transport aircraft: Yak-44 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-44
    7th cathegory Airliner aircraft: Tu-324/414 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-324
    8th cathegory Airliner aircraft: Il-114 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Ilushin/Il-114
    8th cathegory Airliner aircraft: An-140 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Antonov/An-140
    8th cathegory Transport aircraft: Il-112  Question  Question  Question http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Ilushin/Il-112
    8th cathegory Transport aircraft: Tu-130/136 https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/tu-136.htm
    8th cathegory Transport aircraft: MiG-110 http://avia.pro/blog/mig-110
    9th cathegory Airliner aircraft: Yak-48 http://avia.pro/blog/yak-48
    9th cathegory Transport aircraft: Su-80 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Sukhoi/Su-80
    10th cathegory Transport aircraft: Be-112 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-112
    10th cathegory Trainer aircraft: MiG-AT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-AT
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: Rysachok http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Technoavia/Rysachyok
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: MiG-125 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/aliner/mig125.html
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: M-101 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Myasishchev/M-101
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: SM92 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technoavia_SM92_Finist
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: LA-8 http://avia.pro/blog/la-8-aerovolga-tehnicheskie-harakteristiki-foto
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: Be-103 http://russianplanes.net/planelist/Beriev/Be-103
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: Yak-58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-58
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: T-411 http://avia.pro/blog/hrunichev-t-411-aist-tehnicheskie-harakteristiki-foto
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: Chaika L-4/42/44 http://avia.pro/blog/l-44-tehnicheskie-harakteristiki-foto
    11th cathegory Airliner aircraft: BT-4 http://avia.pro/blog/vt-4-tehnicheskie-harakteristiki-foto
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: Yak-112 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-112
    11th cathegory Transport aircraft: Su-38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-38

    Color code, the same than in the previous message. Bolded means doubt. A good number of these projects are living still, even in production, but not gaining traction, and is not expected a future change.

    Everyone of these projects wanted the succes, but no-one of them reached it, no-one reached 50 units produced. In adition to this, only the two Ukranian aircrafts reached a presence in the Russian Armed Forces. Note that some units of the Be-200 were ordered in 2013 but no-one has been delivered still, and I expect the order to be not done because of the changes that are coming in the ways to solve the maritime patrol role.

    The Il-112 also seems ordered to be in the Russian Armed Forces, but I doubt about the success of this aircraft because is being designed in a cathegory where the success for new transport aircrafts is unlikely, as we can see. I would not invest on this aircraft. The Mi-46 helicopter (with around 10 tons of payload and around 25 tons of max take-off weight) would be the alternative that I would support for this weight/size cathegory.

    Looking at the overall situation, the alone configuration out of the scheme that would be reasonable still to try, would be the option of an airliner aircraft in the weight/size cathegory of the An-124 (2nd cathegory). In Russia this option has not been tested still for airliners, but internationally the Boeing 747 and the Airbus A380 succeed. This configuration allows long range (over 10000 Km) with very high passenger capacity (over 500).

    The case of the PTS 240 transport aircraft for 240 tons payload would be also in the zone of uncertain results with unsuccessful precedent, but would be more acceptable, being part of a project that share costs with the philosophy of the 3 sizes, with the other 2 sizes (80 and 160) in zone of success. This makes it a bet of lower risk.


    Last edited by eehnie on Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:45 pm; edited 4 times in total
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:34 am

    State flight tests of the modernized Il-76MD-M aircraft began

    The first prototype of the modernized heavy military transport aircraft Il-76MD-M carried out the first flight [June 14, 2017] during the stage of state joint tests, which the Aviation Complex named after. S.V. Ilyushin holds with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.



    The flight, which lasted more than six hours, was carried out on the eve of the LII airfield. M.M. Gromov in the Moscow region of Zhukovsky. The aircraft was piloted by a joint crew of the test pilots of the Aviation Complex named after. S.V. Ilyushin and the State Flight Test Center of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. V.P. Chkalov. The commander of the crew was honored test pilot of the Russian Federation Dmitry Komarov.

    "The beginning of the stage of state joint testing is a very important event for us. The modernization of the Il-76MD aircraft, which have proved their reliability, will allow them to extend their service in military transport aviation, increase combat effectiveness, and prepare for a mass transfer to the new Il-76MD-90A, "said Ilyushin's general director Alexei Rogozin.

    IL-76MD-M - a project for the modernization of Il-76MD aircraft, developed by the Aviation Complex named after. S.V. Ilyushin in accordance with the tactical and technical assignment approved by the Air and Space Forces of the Russian Defense Ministry in order to modernize the fleet of heavy military transport aircraft Il-76MD, as well as Il-78 and Il-78M fuel tankers.

    Between the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the Aviation Complex. S.V. Ilyushin signed a contract for the modernization of the first batch of military transport aircraft of the Russian Air Force Il-76MD to the level of Il-76MD-M. According to the modernization project, a new pilot-navigation complex was installed on the plane, the lighting, landing and transport and household equipment, as well as defense and communication facilities were replaced. In the nose part there is an optico-electronic sighting system, which works both in the infrared range and in the optical range. During modernization, the Units with the prospective military transport plane Il-76MD-90A and the Il-78M-90A fueler were used. The service life of the aircraft is increased.

    In turn, the state joint tests of the Il-76MD-90A aircraft are scheduled to be completed in 2019. In fact, even today the aircraft is in the troops and is being operated simultaneously with the tests.

    Comment bmpd. Recall that the first flight of the first model of the modernized military transport aircraft IL-76MD-M (registration number RF-76746, serial number 0073479374, serial number 60-04) was held on February 28, 2016 at the aerodrome JSC Flight Research Institute named after M. M. Gromov "in Zhukovsky. Work on the modernization of this initially military aircraft of the Air Force was carried out on the technical basis of OAO Il in Zhukovsky.

    The modernization work was carried out in accordance with the State Contract concluded in August 2013 with the Russian Ministry of Defense with OJSC "Aviation Complex named after I. S.V. Ilyushin "to carry out modernization of the heavy military transport aircraft Il-76MD and the Il-78M refueling aircraft. The state contract provided for the re-equipment of the Il-76MD aircraft, starting in December 2013, but the Il-76MD aircraft (registration number RF-76746, serial number 0073479374, serial number 60-04) actually provided for the conversion as head The Russian Air Force, which was in storage pending repairs from 2009, entered the Il-I facility in Zhukovsky only at the end of 2014, when works on its modernization were started.

    The refueling aircraft Il-78, which is subject to pilot modernization under this contract, entered the IL IL base only in 2016.

    The upgraded Il-76MD-M aircraft retains the old D-30KP engines, which are being modified to extend their life. The modernization work should bring the airborne equipment of the aircraft to the level of the equipment of the newly constructed Il-76MD-90A. The total service life of the aircraft is extended by 15 years. According to the requirements of the Ministry of Defense, the cost of upgrading the IL-76MD to the Il-76MD-M version should be only one third of the cost of the new IL-76MD-90A aircraft.

    Serious modernization works are planned to be conducted at aircraft repair plants or at technical aviation bases of the Military Transport Aviation. Earlier it was reported that the Ministry of Defense of Russia plans to modernize 41 military transport aircraft Il-76MD to the level of Il-76MD-M.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2672139.html


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    Russia’s Ilyushin Aircraft Company is developing a new military transport plane

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:54 pm

    The A-400M designers had borrowed ideas from AN-70, & its specs are even better by a large margin:
    http://www.naumenko.info/_Media/an-70--a-400m-data.jpeg http://www.janes.com/images/assets/725/49725/1569504_-_main.jpg
    Even a US version, if built, would be inferior to it. http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/keesje_pics/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyMDYzNjcwNA==/?ref=
    The jet powered AN-188, if built, would also lift 3T more than A-400M: http://defence-blog.com/news/ukraine-will-develop-a-new-military-transport-aircraft-an-188.html
    The proposed AN-112KC twin engine tanker, when used as a transport, would also compare well with, if not surpass, the C-2, KC-390, C-130J & C-27J, besides the IL-214:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_C-2#Specifications_.28C-2.29  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_KC-390#Specifications_.28KC-390.29
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_C-130J_Super_Hercules#Specifications_.28C-130J.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia_C-27J_Spartan#Specifications_.28C-27J.29
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-214#Specifications  So, I wouldn't call any of them "junk"! Time will tell how Ukraine-RF relations evolve, but it seems Kiev is seeing the writing on the wall already: http://www.apn.ru/index.php?newsid=36413 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-ukraine-russia-territories-nato-crimea-annexation-rebels-miltants-borders-a7791951.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/20/politics/ukraine-petro-poroshenko-white-house/index.html  
    LE BOURGET. June 20. /TASS/. Russia’s Ilyushin Aircraft Company is developing a new military transport plane with a lifting capacity of 20 tonnes, Ilyushin Chief Designer Nikolai Talikov told TASS on Tuesday. "Now we have just formed a package for the medium transport plane. This is a 20-tonne plane, which by its cross-section dimensions is similar to the Il-76. We have already launched work on this plane. The technical assignment has been formulated and actually approved and then all the stages will follow," the chief designer said. The new plane’s name may change but so far it is known as the Il-214, the chief designer said. ..The Ilyushin Aircraft Company is also offering Russia’s Defense Ministry the Il-76MF version. This is the modification of the classical Il-76 plane extended by 6.6 meters, he added.
    Speaking about the perspective heavy plane (the Il-106), the chief designer said that its characteristics "were agreed with the military but the issue of financing has yet to be resolved."http://tass.com/defense/952265
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:16 am

    The An-70 was a much better aircraft than the A400M and looking at the problems they are having with the A400M I would probably choose the An-70 over it any day... the A400M is designed by committee.

    However the An-70 is a paper plane now that the Russians wont buy and and the Ukrainians can't afford to make them.

    As I said, the new aircraft to replace the An-12 with two engines (Il-214) can very easily be fitted with four engines and fill the role of the An-70 for the Russian Air Force.

    It makes vastly more economic sense for Russia... not or Ukraine, but why care about them now... they made their bed.

    The Il-106 was developed to replace the An-22 in the 80-90 ton payload class and is a size above the Il-476.


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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:39 pm

    Pl. check mu edited prev. post with more info.
    GarryB wrote:As I said, the new aircraft to replace the An-12 with two engines (Il-214) can very easily be fitted with four engines and fill the role of the An-70 for the Russian Air Force. ..
    The Il-106 was developed to replace the An-22 in the 80-90 ton payload class and is a size above the Il-476.
    Turning a 2 engine plane into a 4 engine or vise versa isn't easy! Is it going to be easy to make a 4 engine KC-390 derivative? http://www.kc-390.com/ See the big difference between AN-8 & AN-10: http://www.antonov.com/aircraft/antonov-gliders-and-airplanes/an-8
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-8#Specifications
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-10#Specifications_.28An-10A.29 The AN-12 uses different engines type. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-12#Specifications_.28An-12.29  The Airbus developed A-340 & A-330 concurrently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A340
    The IL-96 was proposed to get a twin engine derivative "IL-98" during Yeltsin era but it's also still a paper plane. http://widebodyaircraft.nl/ilyushin.htm
    The Y-20 also used design features of AN-70. https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/05/08/antonov-an-70-medium-range-transport-aircraft-ukriane/
    BTW, China just ordered 52 AN-178s, so Antonov's finances will soon improve. http://telegraf.com.ua/biznes/ekonomika/3442806-kitay-planiruet-zakupit-ukrainskie-an-178.html
    ..в мае 2015 года 10 единиц Ан-178 заказала у Украины азербайджанская компания Silk Way Airlines. Также был заключён договор, согласно которому две китайские компании планируют приобрести 37 таких самолётов...https://inforeactor.ru/82578-ukraina-otgruzit-krupnuyu-partiyu-samoletov-an-178-v-kitai
    But once these are delivered, then what? My understanding is that for its own good, Ukraine can't be in economic war with Russia for much longer. Geography, demography, & common history of the 2 precludes their economies to be separated as the current Kiev regime hopes to accomplish. 1 Russian proverb says: "if you try to catch 2 hares, you'll catch none!" They want their people to believe that the West will reward them for divorcing Russia with "mountains of gold". Those are just dreams being propagated by Poroshenko & his cronies. Once Ukraine is used (screwed) as a proxy in this hybrid war with the RF, it will be discarded & "dried off", as they say.
    I included update on the IL-106 only as a new development, not connected to IL-76 issue.
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:18 pm

    Turning a 2 engine plane into a 4 engine or vise versa isn't easy!

    Actually it is when the aircraft in question is still in the design stage like the Il-214 is...

    Once Ukraine is used (screwed) as a proxy in this hybrid war with the RF, it will be discarded & "dried off", as they say.

    You and I see that, but they do not... they think the Russians have been holding them back and using them, and that democracy and a close relationship with the west will bring wealth and comfort.

    I rather suspect the Ukraine will be milked of everything of value and then ignored... and it will be when it gets to the ignore phase that they will start to look to Russia and neighbours for real help... whether they get it or not likely depends on their actions while in the spell of the west... the continuing brutal suppression of their own people right now is not making things better...


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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:33 pm

    The former head of the Iliyushin Aviation Complex, Henry Novozhilov, on the state of transport aviation

    The website of the Kommersant Publishing House published an interview with the former general designer of the Ilyushin Aviation Complex, Heinrich Novozhilov, "We are striving to make airplanes that do not require major repairs." This enterprise became the head one in the transport aviation division of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). Heinrich Novozhilov, the plant's general designer in 1970-2005, and now the chief science adviser of the new head of the company Alexey Rogozin, told Kommersant what tasks are ahead of Ilyushinsky firm, what projects are key and how they are to be implemented.

    What will the new status for the Iliyushin Aviation Complex affect?

    Certainly, it is positive. With the formation of a gap between generations, it turned out not so easy to pick up the leadership of the air complex. We were organized on January 13, 1933. Sergei Ilyushin assembled a team of six people and began designing a plane TsKB-26, which became the prototype of the IL-4 aircraft - 5.5 thousand of these aircraft made a significant contribution to the victory. Sergei Vladimirovich retired in 1970 in July. He said: "Since I can not come first and go last, I can not be general."

    Now the 69th year of my work has gone here. And then, in 1970, by order of the Security Council I was appointed general designer and responsible manager of the enterprise. And in this position I served until 2005: then I turned 80 years old, I wrote a statement and since then I have been working as the Chief Adviser on Science of the General Director. When the corporatization took place, Victor Livanov became the general director, he headed the team before leaving in May 2014. Since that moment, we have changed three leaders: Sergeev, Velmogkin, Rogozin. This, of course, is not great. Alexei Rogozin and I met repeatedly, discussed the problems, and I realized that he and his team are serious people who are interested in ensuring the fulfillment of all the tasks that lie ahead of the division of military transport planes and in front of the Iliyushin Aircraft Complex. Sergei Vladimirovich, when he started work, he said that the most difficult thing was to create a team of enthusiastic like-minded people. It's harder than building a plane. Today, Ilyushin's formula needs to be continued. We have been in good relations with Oleg Konstantinovich Rogozin for many years, especially our contact increased with the creation of the IL-86. He was well versed in technology and was a brave man. I want to express confidence that Alexei Rogozin will follow his grandfather's way and will be a reliable leader. Ilyushinsky style of work consists in that it is necessary to do simply, reliably and durably. During these years, there was not a single day that our aircraft were not in series production.

    Are there any new developments now? What is the team working on right now?


    Well, firstly, a light turboprop military transport plane IL-112. We have been dealing with it for a long time. Once there was a government decree signed by Viktor Chernomyrdin, so that we could make a passenger plane for 50 people. And curious in this resolution was the system of payment: we had to get money from oil. In Ufa there is an oil refinery, we were given a quota, they produced gasoline and kerosene on the basis of this quota, sold it, and the money went to create an IL-112. They made a preliminary design and began to work. But then the quota was liquidated, and the money was gone. Then the military was asked to replace the An-26 aircraft. We won the competition, presented a breadboard model, the cabin was made of wood, the model of the IL-114 aircraft was used. We started to work, we released about 80% of the drawings, and then the financing ceased. Here it is after a certain number of years resumed. We continued our work. Today, our first VASO plant is building the first prototype IL-112. Today the fuselage is built there, a wing is built, they are docked, it remains to make the filling, and we hope to complete the first flight by the end of the year. This is the first novelty. The second "old" novelty is the IL-114. In Russia, there are three areas in which our citizens understand best: football, aviation and space. And now you read the newspapers, some write that the designer used to impose to Aeroflot what he sees fit, without taking into account the interests of passengers ... No, the plane was always created together. Now they say that this machine has a "redundant" wing. Let's read the requirements for performance and economic characteristics: the practical range is not limited by the total time and should be 5.4 tons with a commercial load of 1 thousand km, with a commercial load of 1.5 tons - 4.8 thousand kilometers. This is done, among other things, so that the aircraft can be operated in the Arctic and Antarctic conditions.

    And what about other new products?


    An interesting story happened with the creation of a promising medium military transport aircraft, which we initially started to do with the Indians. Immediately the question arose about the cabin: the partners did not need a big one, but we also have to think about our air forces. The corresponding research institute gave the conclusion that the cross section should be the same as on the IL-76 (3,45 on 3,4 m - "b"). And then the plane was born, we installed two PS-90-76 engines on it, half of the 76th car appeared. In addition, now on the basis of the IL-96-400T cargo plane we are going to make a long-haul wide-body aircraft for 415 seats. It's time to displace our respected colleagues, what we are doing today. As for the IL-96, today the most important and difficult thing is to make a new passenger interior.

    Is it so difficult?


    This is a very difficult job that captures all the aircraft systems. In 1996, we flew the Il-96-300 plane to Basel, it was necessary to make an interior for the quarter. Only for three quarters have consulted.

    What is the current interest in military transport aviation?

    I'm sure, in Il-112, in Il-76 planes and, of course, in the development of this car - in the elongated modification of IL-76MF.

    Military transport aviation receives about 16-18 cars a year from overhaul. Does this fit into the life-cycle program?

    We generally strive to make planes that do not require major repairs. A civilian car usually has about 30,000 flight hours, and the military has a small raid, so there it is necessary to look more closely at the state of the aircraft, because the aircraft that flies has less damage than the one that is on the ground. Therefore, I think that there are no special problems, especially since we are now engaged in the modernization of those machines that they have.

    What about production capacity? In order to cover all the existing needs of customers, enough?

    This is a difficult question. Now the system of work has changed. If earlier we designed and we had here in Moscow, there was pilot production, which made the first prototype aircraft, and it took off from the central airfield, today, for example, we build a new light military transport aircraft IL-112 immediately at VASO. Of course, designers are desirable to add: in the Ilyushin Aviation Complex, we have about half as many people as before 1990. The Russian market is great: both in terms of volume and type of aircraft. And they should be built for the Russian conditions, this is my deepest conviction. But these planes have always found external demand.

    In your opinion, when was the hardest period in the enterprise?

    I have experienced two conversions in my life. The first was proclaimed by Comrade Malenkov in 1946-1947. We started making pots, teapots ... I can now say that the most difficult part of a teapot is a spout. And when Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev announced the conversion, the Ilyushin Aviation Complex was commissioned, for example, to produce paper bags. We made an automatic machine in Tashkent, he produced any number of these packages, but there was nothing to fall asleep at that time. Or here we had a booth for dynamic drying of mink skins. Once an American professor came to us and asked: "They say you are working on a conversion? And who is responsible for this? "I say:" Anatoly Shaposhnikov. " The professor asks: "What else does he do?" I replied that he was also responsible for the electrician and the flight-navigation complex on our aircraft.

    Is there an influx of young cadres?

    A very serious issue, and we are doing this in the aviation complex. We carry out a number of works with the Academy of Sciences of Aviation and Aeronautics, and with the aviation engineering club headed by Yuri Sergeevich Yeliseyev. We spend with the youth of the Olympiad on the history of aviation. In 2016, we recruited 457 people. It's not that small. More than half of the new employees, 236 people, are young people under the age of 35. We have a connection with the institutes, we conclude contracts with the students of the MAI, so that they then come to work for us.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2707995.html


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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:49 pm

    Besides the AN-132,
    I guess the AN-70 is more atractive to them than the A400M.
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:44 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:...............
    I guess the AN-70 is more atractive to them than the A400M.

    Dude, get real.

    West buying cargo planes from Kiev with Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Airbus around?

    Maybe after that they will sell some sand to Arabs and snow to Eskimos, I hear they are running short... lol1

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:54 pm

    Saudi Arabia is not the "West", if you've read the link. Even with deep pockets they look for ways to save $. Brand names are irrelevant if the performance is the same or better. "Whether a cat is black or white, if it catches mice, it's a good cat"- Deng Xiaoping

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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:55 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Saudi Arabia is not the "West", if you've read the link.
    Yes, it is. They were told by Uncle Sam to "save Antonov", and just are doing this. As they pay ridiculously overprized contracts for Western military equipment. All the dollars they gain from the West selling oil return to the West either via military contracts or via Saudi finantial investments.
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    Re: Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:10 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Saudi Arabia is not the "West", if you've read the link.
    Yes, it is. They were told by Uncle Sam to "save Antonov", and just are doing this.
    If so, only temporarily, & how do you know that? It's a conjecture. Even if true, they wouldn't gotten involved if it wasn't feasible & a win for them. Trump would be happier if they bought more C-130Js or invested in developing C-27J-like plane in USA. Antonov looks to US for An-70 resurrection as An-77; it could be developed jointly with US http://www.janes.com/article/72015/antonov-looks-to-us-for-an-70-resurrection https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/77-military-transport-aircraft-developed-jointly-us.html http://www.heavyliftpfi.com/news/antonov-seeks-us-partners-for-an-77-project.html
    ANTONOV SEEKS US INDUSTRY COOP. FOR AN-70-BASED LIFTER
    http://quwa.org/2017/07/05/ukraines-antonov-seeks-us-industry-cooperation-70-based-lifter/ - who knows, US may even buy some! But Russia will raise the issue of intellectual property as AN-70 was developed jointly, not to mention their $100M invested in the project.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link, text)

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