The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

Neutrality wrote:What's up with the NAF pulling out their men in Shirokino? Anyone got an explanation?

Azov launched ground offensive and NAF was not allowed to shoot back out of gesture of good will.

whir wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:about becoming independent of a foreign power.

No, no, it was all about not being Russian and becoming European .

Yes indeed, i should have put my original comment in inverted commas.

In the delusional mind of the ukro-nationalists and co it was about freeing themselves from russian slavery, as soon as they freed themselves from being under the russian thumb, they would flourish and join the elite of europe. They somehow seem to forget that without russia subsidizing their country for the past 24 years it would have been out on its ass long ago.

But then again, thats another evil moskal plot.

You give them a gas discount, you are bribing them and not allowing their economy to grow.
You charge them full price, you are ripping them off and bankrupting the country.

Nothing is ever the ukrainians fault themselves.

0 Maidan soldiers KIA 4 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday.

Neutrality wrote:What's up with the NAF pulling out their men in Shirokino? Anyone got an explanation?

It was said in some report recently that Shironkino will be a demilitarized zone... wether if that was on mutual agreement through OSCE don't know.. but apparently it seems a mutual agreement was achieved in that place of both sides to retreat.

Neutrality wrote:What's up with the NAF pulling out their men in Shirokino? Anyone got an explanation?

Essentially nothing has changed at Shirokino and fighting continues. If VSN had withdrawn to create some "demiliarised zone" then ukrops would be claiming victory, but silence. What has caused confusion is simply words trying to put ukrops in a bad light, but the words do not match the situation on the ground. There is an odd propaganda war occuring about Shirokino with some curious claims about deliberate lack of artillery support etc, but it's all words.

auslander wrote:

Neutrality wrote:What's up with the NAF pulling out their men in Shirokino? Anyone got an explanation?

Don't know how true it is but Shirokino is still being shot by the orcs as of an hour ago.

Lets see if ukies claim a victory then, if NAF really pull back theres no way the ukies wont go in and occupy it, if its true we will see azov selfies very shortly in the town centre.

Erk wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
I'm on tablet so can't type much but holy cow check this out!!!!

http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/07/ukraines-alternative-to-russian-gas-wood.html

Running cars on wood is not a bad idea, as it's renewable. Probably need some up to day 21st century device to do it, not from the 2nd world war vintage.

NOt really good idea.. on a wide scale through all cities ,Wood contaminate the environment .
But what this shows is one example that alternative exist.. and that the only reason Gasoline
is used.. Is because Mega companies like SHell ,EXXOn and Rossneft and many other powerful
corporation makes lots of money selling Oil. In reality there is no reason why Electric Cars have no replaced totally already Fosil energy driven cars.. or Hydrogen cars.

Vann7 wrote:

Neutrality wrote:What's up with the NAF pulling out their men in Shirokino? Anyone got an explanation?

It was said in some report recently that Shironkino will be a demilitarized zone... wether if that was on mutual agreement through OSCE don't know.. but apparently it seems a mutual agreement was achieved in that place of both sides to retreat.

unilateral from NAF because of gesture of good will

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-500-explosion-at-cafe-in-odessa-no-injuries/

http://www.ibtimes.com/ukraines-nato-entrance-amid-russian-aggression-least-6-7-years-away-poroshenko-says-1989763

It will take several years of work and a nationwide referendum for Ukraine to meet the minimum standards required to join the NATO military alliance, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Tuesday.

How ?

Poroshenko personally supports Ukraine’s entry into NATO. He said, “There is no other system in the world but NATO that is capable of ensuring security.”

Again, how ?

PARIS (Sputnik) – French authorities are reviewing Ukraine’s constitutional reforms proposed by President Petro Poroshenko to see if they conform to the Minsk agreements on reconciliation, French Foreign Ministry spokesman Romain Nadal said Thursday.

“As was stated by [French Foreign Minster] Laurent Fabius, the Minsk agreements contain the necessity of decentralization and institutional changes with the goal of providing more autonomy to the territories in eastern Ukraine. We are currently reviewing the constitutional reform project in this area that needs to be covered under Ukrainian legislation,” Nadal said at a briefing in Paris.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150702/1024120803.html#ixzz3ejheu2qW

auslander wrote:

kap-the-head wrote:One of the volunteers in Donbass, Alexei Smirnov (Shariy often refers to him in his videos) is saying that it's imperative that we move all the kids out of the area within three days, or disaster will strike.
"Ситуация экстренная обьявляю сбор средств на вывоз детей с линии фронта.
В течение трех дней нужно вывезти иначе быть беде.."

I wonder if they see something we don't...

Source please?

Facebook. He, just like Shariy, updates most of his news on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/AlexeySmirnov84?fref=ts

sepheronx wrote:That forbes article is surreal. Wtf were they on when writing that? Ukraines army was getting its ass handed to them, and that is evident by any map showing where Rebels control now. Add to that, debletsevo was 1000 naf vs 5000 - 8000 pukes, and the pukes gave up.

Maybe forbes is pulling a "russia will be defeated in x amount of weeks" like in Georgia, where the western media was wrong.

Forbes just sank to the lowest it could go.

My thoughts are that the writers looked at the totals of announced UAF strength and those totals of announced UAF strength in the Donbas and jumped to this conclusion because;
- they believe everything the Ukrainian government says
- don't realize or wish to ignore the thousands of Ukrainian forces needed to "protect" the regions and especially those in the southeast from themselves

Maidan raises electricity cost in Crimea by 14.4 %

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-raises-electricity-price-for-crimea-by-144-percent-from-july-392527.html

About Shirokino. Two versions:
1: What has happened is that the mortars have been removed and the guys remain and Shirokino is still in hands of VSN and will not be given up. The mortars are removed so as not to give ukrops any excuse to continue their bombardments of Shirokino and they will need to provide a good reason if they continue. The mortars are removed to a distance were they can still give support if ukrops attack
https://vk.com/pravdadnr_tk?w=wall-74318800_16515

2: According to Basurin VSN have left Shirokino. http://rusvesna.su/news/1435830434

Believe who you will, or nobody.......

I read that Forbes "contribution"...whew. That's something he's taking, can't be natural...

"The destruction of a Russian battle group".

Oh well at least i laughed a bit.

PapaDragon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:I read that Forbes "contribution"...whew. That's something he's taking, can't be natural...

"The destruction of a Russian battle group".

Oh well at least i laughed a bit.

Me too, dude has been hitting the hard stuff  

Although when you  think about it, this might be the good way of selling any compromise that might be not so awesome for Kiev.
This way they can say ''we had to stop Ukrainians from winning and had to make a deal with Russians otherwise crazy Putin would nuke everyone!!!''

Maybe they are laying groundwork for ''dignified'' (    ) retreat...

You guys don't truly know how funny and ironic your comments are!

...Just for the reminder the original Forbes family fortune was made from selling opium!!!

Shirokino, again. "Kotych" has posted that VSN have left. Some confusion may be result of the announcement of intention to withdraw being understood as a withdrawl that has already taken place, when the reality may be that the forces have not yet moved. IMO you never announce an intention to withdraw when you are in combat, even low level, and announce the withdrawl only when it has taken place. I am beginning to think that a cock-up has occured and we have what is now clearly an embarrasing debacle about Shirokino that gives propaganda to ukrops. There is a split in opinion, from side of Novorossiya, about this. Some say that it is simply to show that VSN are not the guilty party and that it is ukrops who want to break Minsk, and this is of course a fact. Others say that the ground at Shirokino is not suitable for defence as it is overlooked by hills and it is necessary to withdraw to better ground to save lives. These are the views from the side "cunning plan". From the side "Putin drained" it is pointed out that why only now withdraw from Shirokino if the ground is bad, why not months ago. Why withdraw to show "good intentions" when the outside world does not know, and if it did, will not give a shit. Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up. Ukrops see all this nonsense happening in the networks and laugh. This should have been forecast and better thought given to any withdrawl from Shirokino, if it has actually happened, and it is still not 100% clear. Whatever the reasons for this heap of shit, it had better be part of "cunning plan" or some heads should roll.

So, this is the army ready to crush the Russians?

On Tuesday, Ukrainian hacker collective CyberBerkut published excerpts from a report by Ukraine's Southern Region Military Prosecutor Pavel Bogutsky, detailing the criminal activity of Kiev-allied volunteer battalions in eastern Ukraine, as well as that of units of the Armed Forces and the Security Service. "We have obtained official documents confirming that the so-called volunteer battalions are completely outside Kiev's control," CyberBerkut notes in its introduction to the documents. "Factually, they have turned into organized crime groups, robbing and killing their own people. In the course of their punitive operations, they have become so accustomed to impunity and all-permissiveness that they feel themselves to be above the law and outside [any] moral code," the hackers add.

The fighting groups in question include Aidar, Donbass, Chernihiv, Luhansk-1, Kiev-12 and other volunteer battalions, most of them under the formal command of Ukraine's National Guard. Bogutsky's report, which 80 pages in length, shows that over the past months, the battalions in the area of the Lugansk Region under Ukrainian control have committed over 200 crimes, ranging from armed assault and robbery, to kidnapping and murder.

Bogutsky's report on "criminal activities entered into the Single Registry for Pre-Trial Investigation," documenting "illegal actions by territorial defense battalions and other military units involved in the Anti-Terrorist Operation in the Lugansk Region," and listing the number of crimes committed by each group. The uncovered report also notes that some battalions ignore the orders of National Guard commanders. CyberBerkut comments that "in his report, Deputy Chief of the Eastern Operational-Territorial Associations of the National Guard for Work With Personnel V.P. Pylypenko reports that the command of the Azov Battalion does not comply with, and sometimes deliberately ignores the orders of the leadership of the National Guard."

The documents uncovered by CyberBerkut also show that personnel from the Ukrainian Security Service are also "actively engaged in criminal activity. Whether by their own initiative of under secret instructions, they kidnap people viewed as objectionable to the regime [in Kiev]. Relevant appeals by citizens have been made to Deputy Southern Region Military Prosecutor K. Ignatov," the hacker group notes, citing a document by Ignatov asking to check on the SBU's activities in the Dnipropetrovsk Region.

Finally, Bogutsky's report also documents cases of armed clashes between the volunteer formations and units of the National Guard, with one document showing a National Guard commander asking that his troops be awarded medals for their detention of Aidar Battalion militants.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150702/1024127420.html#ixzz3ekb8kjIp

What a surprise!

MOSCOW, July 2. /TASS/. The Russian Federal Air Transport Agency has a number of questions to the draft report on the cause of the Malaysian passenger aircraft crash over Ukraine last year, Oleg Storchevoy a deputy head of the agency, said on Thursday. "We have read the draft of the final report of the investigation into the crash of the Malaysian Boeing’s MH17 flight," Storchevoy said. "After studying it I can only say that there are more questions than answers."

According to a statement from the Dutch Safety Board, sent to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) on Wednesday, the final report on the causes of the crash of flight MH17 in Ukraine would be released in the first half of October.

"Our specialists have a range of weighty remarks regarding the document, stated arguments and simply technical data," Storchevoy said. "We hope that our addenda and commentaries will be reflected in the final report, and our emerged questions will be answered as well." He also said that the Russian side was given only 30 days to provide its comments on the draft report, instead of 60 days as it was envisaged by ICAO regulations.

In its Wednesday’s statement to ICAO, the Dutch Safety Board stated in particular that "In accordance with the rules of the International Civil Aviation Organization, they [international investigators] have 60 days to comment on the report."

The international parties to the investigation into the passenger jet’s crash are the Netherlands, Australia, the United Kingdom, Malaysia, Russia, the United States and Ukraine

Khepesh wrote:Shirokino, again. "Kotych" has posted that VSN have left. Some confusion may be result of the announcement of intention to withdraw being understood as a withdrawl that has already taken place, when the reality may be that the forces have not yet moved. IMO you never announce an intention to withdraw when you are in combat, even low level, and announce the withdrawl only when it has taken place. I am beginning to think that a cock-up has occured and we have what is now clearly an embarrasing debacle about Shirokino that gives propaganda to ukrops. There is a split in opinion, from side of Novorossiya, about this. Some say that it is simply to show that VSN are not the guilty party and that it is ukrops who want to break Minsk, and this is of course a fact. Others say that the ground at Shirokino is not suitable for defence as it is overlooked by hills and it is necessary to withdraw to better ground to save lives. These are the views from the side "cunning plan". From the side "Putin drained" it is pointed out that why only now withdraw from Shirokino if the ground is bad, why not months ago. Why withdraw to show "good intentions" when the outside world does not know, and if it did, will not give a shit. Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up. Ukrops see all this nonsense happening in the networks and laugh. This should have been forecast and better thought given to any withdrawl from Shirokino, if it has actually happened, and it is still not 100% clear. Whatever the reasons for this heap of shit, it had better be part of "cunning plan" or some heads should roll.

It's not even about "Putain drained" but about Ukrops installing their artillery there to shell NAF positions more precise and father into Donbass territory. I just hope that this was thoroughly thought through. The only time when a successful withdrawal happened was in WWII when Zhukov decided to give up Kiev in order to regroup.