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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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    Karl Haushofer
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:21 pm

    Neutrality wrote:

    There's perhaps another story to Shirokino. Wasn't this village a constant gain-lose-gain-lose battle for both sides? Well maybe the NAF decided they had enough of bleeding their resources there, let the Ukrainians take the bait and let them move in and start returning the favor to them with artillery. There are no civilians there anyway and most of the village is destroyed already.
    Good that you still have faith that the NAF will actually shoot at the enemy again in this war. I don't have the same faith anymore.


    Last edited by Karl Haushofer on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:22 pm

    Neutrality wrote:There's perhaps another story to Shirokino. Wasn't this village a constant gain-lose-gain-lose battle for both sides? Well maybe the NAF decided they had enough of bleeding their resources there, let the Ukrainians take the bait and let them move in and start returning the favor to them with artillery. There are no civilians there anyway and most of the village is destroyed already.

    Good idea. But you forget NAF is not allowed to use artillery under Minsk. Wink

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:28 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Good that you still have faith that the NAF will actually shoot at the enemy again in this war. I don't have the same faith anymore.

    Quit with the crap already. Are we even following the same conflict? Just yesterday "spasidonbass" humanitarians filmed how some NAF fighters obliterated a Ukrainian checkpoint. Check out their Youtube channel it's called: "opasnie".

    Flagship Victory wrote:Good idea. But you forget NAF is not allowed to use artillery under Minsk.

    Maybe artillery is the wrong word. They have plenty of other resources like automatic grenade launchers, mortars, underbarrel launchers, RPGs and other stuff "creative" stuff.

    PS: I'm getting slightly suspicious that you are 1 and the same account.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:34 pm

    It is obvious that OSCE SMM works for Maidan. Or else it wouldn't have Ukraine flag on their website and logo.

    https://twitter.com/osce_smm

    You see how OSCE SMM helped Maidan take Shirokino by tricking NAF.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:04 am

    Radio Svoboda suffers:) an "unfortunate malfunction" blackout while mob goes wild with enthusiasm over anti-Semitic anti-Russian speech, you hear only last words: " Down with Yids-Putin gang!"

    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/6347647

    Can anyone translate please? Thanks in advance.

    Here is what radio "Svoboda" "Free Europe" skipped from the broadcast:.

    http://www.tubechop.com/watch/6347687

    All English language now on my recent report from frontline positions by Donetsk with @PLnewstoday




    In Ukraine, a political power struggle comes to a head

    http://www.dw.com/en/in-ukraine-a-political-power-struggle-comes-to-a-head/a-18561688

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:13 am

    Neutrality wrote:

    PS: I'm getting slightly suspicious that you are 1 and the same account.


    It is the same person, most of us refer to him as Flagship Haushofer

    we also think he operates a third account, "Monarchist".



    I like to refer to this entity as Royal Flagship Haushofer

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:41 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Wow leave the thread for a few days and it gets overrun by paranoid Putin haters... Suspect

    Some of the rhetoric you guys are spouting against Moscow's stance is stupidly narrow minded. I'll reiterate for the 10th time, either Russia plays the Global Chessboard and resoundingly wins the game for the next century, or Russia quagmires itself in a regional conflict that will be resolved when Ukraine and the Keiv junta collapses anyway. Honestly how narrow minded do you have to be to not see the outcome on a grander scale of either scenario.

    In saying this some of you are actually accusing Putin of being pro-West, so you really are pretty narrow minded.

    Well, Putin was definitely pro-West not that long ago and it is clear that the Kremlin is less eager to burn bridges with the USAE than the USAE with Russia.
    There is a school of thought that says that Russia was, and to a great extent still is, pro West for very good strategic reasons. The most important of which was/is to buy time to increase its defences, both military and economic which were both in a pretty bad way as well as gain allies around the world. It has succeeded brilliantly.

    The unfolding of the events in Ukraine has underlined that strategy. Never pushing things so far as to upset the West, forcing them to really react. Delaying events as far as possible in the expectation that the pressures in Ukraine, particularly financial (note that stunningly successful poison pill $3B loan) as well as military and political, will build to some kind of collapse and anarchy. Above all, playing the part of a reasonable non belligerent.

    As said, Ukraine, both sides of the ceasefire line, is the unfortunate fall guy in this particular world power play. Both sides are dancing to the tunes of their paymasters. To look at it purely on local grounds is missing that point. Russia seems to be determined to keep Ukraine (excluding Crimea) intact with a viable Russian oriented section in the East as a counterbalance to the west of the country. Almost everywhere else the US has acted, like Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria etc has crumbled into mini states that are easier for them to control. The good old British 'divide and rule' with few Brits actually there. So far Ukraine has not gone that far.

    Kiev needs a fight in the east, to divert attention from the increasing problems and attract more Western money/support, much more than Russia. I suspect that in the event of the UA actually attacking east, sufficient munitions will be fired from indeterminate and deniable sources with the objective to stop them in their tracks and cause a mutiny.

    In my mind it's all a play for time, while also winning the hearts and minds of people all over the world, so that the will to fight Russia in the West can only come from the top with little support from the common man. This is especially strong amongst the European population, with most not trusting their media or government, and some actually believing Russia is in the right. Remember that one of the US' main strategies during the Cold War was to play the "moral high ground" card, convincing the West as a whole that the Soviet Union was evil simply because of its communist principles, therefore giving the US a free pass to do whatever the hell it wanted to under the guise of "freedom" and "democracy".  Today, the US holds no such card. Many saw them for what they were when they murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in the deposing of Saddam Hussein, plunging the country into chaos. Again in Libya, now Syria. Public opinion polls showed that people around the world think the US is the greatest threat to world peace. This is why they are so eager to paint Putin as trying to rebuild the Soviet Union, because they can then fall back on the "evil communist" mantra against Russia (not that that would work too well today either, given the socialist swing most "democratic" Western countries are pushing, meaning a lot of liberals, especially in the younger generation, are completely and wholeheartedly sold to the idea of a socialist state).

    It really is a high stakes game of chicken, but in my opinion the US lost it in 2000, with the succession of Vladimir Putin. Ukraine was game set and matched with the secession of Crimea, and the formulation of the Novorossiya ideology. Kiev will collapse, Porky Yats etc. will flee, and the successive government (if there is one) will no longer have the same drive to kill its own people. We'll probably end up with a North/South Korea DMZ, but by my reckoning even that won't last long.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:33 am

    Colonel Cassad on the situation regarding Shirokino;
    http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2268444.html#cutid1

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:30 am

    So it's basically what I said before: unnecessary retreat that endangers their positions. What's interesting is that the Ukrainians aren't hurrying to take Shirokino either (apparently because it's a giant minefield).

    Did I just read that correctly? OSCE suggested both sides demine Shirokino. These people are utter and completely torn away from reality, even more so than I thought. They don't even consider for a moment that such a proposition might increase the risk of an open shooting war like in Marinka last time with potentially all hell breaking loose. OSCE is closer to instigating war than I thought.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:27 am

    Neutrality wrote:So it's basically what I said before: unnecessary retreat that endangers their positions. What's interesting is that the Ukrainians aren't hurrying to take Shirokino either (apparently because it's a giant minefield).

    Did I just read that correctly? OSCE suggested both sides demine Shirokino. These people are utter and completely torn away from reality, even more so than I thought. They don't even consider for a moment that such a proposition might increase the risk of an open shooting war like in Marinka last time with potentially all hell breaking loose. OSCE is closer to instigating war than I thought.

    You don't get the point, the statu quo only profits the side who's supposed to be the strongest...the OSCE is a tool for the Statu Quo. There's nothing malicious in there, these are useful idiots...

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:00 am

    Since there is talk that the latest failure to negotiate a price for gas sales to Ukraine reflects on the fact that
    the regime is bankrupt, it makes sense for Russia and the NAF to bend over backward to make sure they sink
    and hard. The regime is desperate for pretexts to save its ass. But it is not getting them and this is major
    damage to the regime.

    The other bird that Russia is in the process of killing with the turn the other cheek approach is imperial USA.
    The regime in Washington is trying to ignite cold and hot wars with Russia. But it is looking increasingly
    unhinged in the eyes of people around the world. Russia cannot at any cost give these worms a "justification"
    for their warmongering. Kiev and Washington are both desperate for Russia to "invade" or stage some military
    action. I am not so sure they will get what they think from this like with MH17, but without such action they
    are left to lie like idiots and discredit themselves on a daily basis.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:18 am

    It seems OSCE read this Forums and aware of this thread and feeling the pressure.. and trying to save a bit of face.. Laughing


    Ukraine: "Heavy weapons spotted in gov-controlled areas"- OSCE chief


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:23 am

    Vann7 wrote:It seems OSCE read this Forums and aware of this thread and feeling the pressure.. and trying to save a bit of face.. Laughing


    Ukraine: "Heavy weapons spotted in gov-controlled areas"- OSCE chief


    Finally they are paying attention.

    You cannot hide everything.



    Anyone here can confirm that the Ukrainian Bulats are actually being kept from the front lines to be used as force cohesive propaganda?

    I have heard rumors.



    P.S. Vann7, I really really REALLY doubt OSCE reads this forum, I in fact doubt they possess reading capabilities at all.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:15 am

    Vann7 wrote:It seems OSCE read this Forums and aware of this thread and feeling the pressure.. and trying to save a bit of face.. Laughing


    Ukraine: "Heavy weapons spotted in gov-controlled areas"- OSCE chief


    There is a concerted campaign in Novorossiya, started by one news man and growing rapidly, to photo and ID all the OSCE operatives, in particular the ones who so blithely ignore patently obvious evidence of Uke bombardments of civilian areas and infrastructure and the resultant deaths of civilians. The OSCE operatives have shown a distinct dislike of these photos and videos of them in action and their total lack of any tools what so ever to measure impact sights, determine the direction of origin and determine the size and type of ordinance involved in the impact areas. Photographic and video evidence of OSCE operatives ignoring and at times verbally abusing residents trying to show the OSCE operatives the remains of Grad cluster munitions and white phosphor munitions is being specifically collected and collated to the best of my knowledge.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:53 am

    Vann7 wrote:It seems OSCE read this Forums and aware of this thread and feeling the pressure.. and trying to save a bit of face.. Laughing


    Ukraine: "Heavy weapons spotted in gov-controlled areas"- OSCE chief


    So first we have BBC stating that it's their right to define the war in Ukraine as a civil war and now FINALLY the OSCE starting to point fingers at Kiev.

    Perhaps there's finally a shift happening. We'll see though.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:56 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:It seems OSCE read this Forums and aware of this thread and feeling the pressure.. and trying to save a bit of face.. Laughing


    Ukraine: "Heavy weapons spotted in gov-controlled areas"- OSCE chief


    So first we have BBC stating that it's their right to define the war in Ukraine as a civil war and now FINALLY the OSCE starting to point fingers at Kiev.

    Perhaps there's finally a shift happening. We'll see though.
    There is no shift.

    None of this is being mentioned in the Western mainstream media or by the Western politicians.

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