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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:07 pm

    Regular wrote:Separatist are doing anything, but winning. Ukrainian army got it's act up. Even in the southern cauldron. Without russia it's done deal.

    It's still too early to tell...Last time people said that we heard Separatists beating the tar out of Kiev forces, and now we have this:


    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:14 pm

    Ukraine troops are doing is not considered skilled or intelligent of the sort. They are just shelling an area, then move in, in attempts to surround he seps, ignoring civil casulties. Piss poor tactics that has been used in Chechnya.

    In news: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/shocking-reason-putin-isnt-worried-about-50-billion-yukos-ruling

    If true, then things can get real scary.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:25 pm

    So right sector bandits could not wait for "ukraine glory" and went directly to Banderas heaven ,to meet their
    leader.

    Ukraine: Right Sector hold funeral for militant killed in east Ukraine



    How disgusting that people. How they dare to use the church and their banderas criminals flag in same place.
    I really think the CIA infiltrated the Catholic church in Ukraine or parts of it. Aside note , notice how they use
    English letters in made logo of the right sector and not their own Ukraine language. Anyone guess why?
    Because is a CIA project and is made for western media promotion.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:31 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    So right sector bandits could not wait for "ukraine glory" and went directly to Banderas heaven ,to meet their
    leader.

    Ukraine: Right Sector hold funeral for militant killed in east Ukraine

    How disgusting that people. How they dare to use the church and their banderas criminals flag in same place.
    I really think the CIA infiltrated the Catholic church in Ukraine or parts of it.
    And what CIA actually do in those churches?
    I don't see how mourning people are disgusting. Be it seps or Ukrainians. Fuck that guy, but his family has nothing do with it. Just look at their mothers trying to stop them from going. Be it RS/NG/Army. If You would've been from Western part of Ukraine, You would think You are doing right thing. Bandera is whitewashed more than jesus. They even think he fought off nazis and soviets at same time.


    Last edited by Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:32 pm

    CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Airbornewolf on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:36 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    In news: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/shocking-reason-putin-isnt-worried-about-50-billion-yukos-ruling

    If true, then things can get real scary.

    i wouldnt get too excited about potential war. western politicians might talk tough, but at least here in europe most millitary's and people do not have the stumach to get into one. not after the blunder's of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    while the media here in the west was foaming at the mouth blaming russia and quoting politicians for an "hard response". there where veterans both active and out of service among the Dutch Millitary speaking openly against all of this propaganda-war on social media. even an dutch general spoke openly about the "inconsistency's" of the MH-17 downing. the media waved him away, but its NOT a good sign when your millitary's troops start to publicly speak against the goverment's narrative on (social) media.

    its why i hardly think the european part of NATO is not in any shape to be "activated" against Russia. and the western politicians have themselves to thank for it honestly in my opinion.
    ammunition has been depleted from stockpiles after iraq/Afghanistan/Libya. personell morale and skill is an all time low. and material is in a disgracefull state because of budget cuts.






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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:37 pm

    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.


    Wow, you got blackmailed or threatend by NSA and their surveillance that you went full retard to be now anti-russian?

    You must have some serious problems now attacking against everyone.

    He told facts, CIA is involved in Ukraine, the CIA chef was seen twice in Kiew under Junta and that proofs it.

    CIA was let into Kremln under Jelzin in 1991 that is also known, but yes behave like everything is a consipracy theory.

    The only nutjob here that is you, making cheapshots with stupid oneliners out of a pathetic hollywood movie against everything.

    How about you find more than one braincell to make more then stupid cheapshots and actually do something constructive, but no all your 100 last posts or so are all anti-russian with big scent of stupidity behind it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:40 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    CIA was let into Kremln under Jelzin in 1991 that is also known
    They never left

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:41 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Ukraine troops are doing is not considered skilled or intelligent of the sort. They are just shelling an area, then move in, in attempts to surround he seps, ignoring civil casulties. Piss poor tactics that has been used in Chechnya.

    In news: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/shocking-reason-putin-isnt-worried-about-50-billion-yukos-ruling

    If true, then things can get real scary.


    The financial minister of Russia told, The hague court have no Jurisdiction over Russian courts. and the the entire
    thing was a political one side stunt and not connected with reality. In short the decision of Hague have no jurisdiction or legal power in Russia. Russia is an independent and sovereign nation and hague european court cannot change Russian laws.  What US-UK could try to do is use the hague court decision to pressure their EU colonies .


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:42 pm

    Baha, I LOVE the use of the word Junta. It makes me giggle every time I see it. Especially when I hear on the sorry-excuse for Russian TV news every other minute. These guys make MSNBC look professional.

    BTW please tell me how CIA was inside Kremlin.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:43 pm

    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.
    IDK man, shitty for Russian people You say? There are plenty of Russians who have more "bablo" than us, stupid hard working euros will ever have.

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:48 pm

    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.

    You definitively do not like your Nation.. you should move then Holywood USA and live in a fantasy or matrix and just enjoy the good life.  Cool

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:54 pm

    You are right. A good nation is where no one dares criticize the Fuhrer. He needs our unanimus support to achieve Great Things.
    A true citizen never questions those in power. Especially Russian leaders, who have all been great, just, and fair men.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:55 pm

    TR1 wrote:You are right. A good nation is where no one dares criticize the Fuhrer. He needs our unanimus support to achieve Great Things.
    A true citizen never questions those in power. Especially Russian leaders, who have all been great, just, and fair men.

    Lmao

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:56 pm

    Regular wrote:
    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.
    IDK man, shitty for Russian people You say? There are plenty of Russians who have more "bablo" than us, stupid hard working euros will ever have.

    And you just exposed the brutal truth of Russia- a giant wealth gap between all those Russians who got rich over the past 20 years (and they are damn well off) and the rest of the country, which is certainly NOT doing better than the majority of the EU.

    By some rankings Russia has the worst wealth inequality in the world. Sounds about right.


    Last edited by TR1 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:57 pm

    TR1 wrote:Baha, I LOVE the use of the word Junta. It makes me giggle every time I see it. 
    Well it could be called junta, I mean transitional gov, but I wouldn't call them like that today.
    Seps are not standing on firm ground calling Kiev gov junta, when that alcoholic soup factory owner Ponomorev became mayor 12th of April after Admin building was sized. No elections here. At least he was local.

    TheArmenian
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:03 am


    In the Cauldron: The ground is burning under the feet of the occupants.

    The war is far from over. Kiev is pushing hard toward Donetsk and Lugansk while the rebels are pushing hard against the surrounded Kiev troops in the southern cauldron.
    Both sides are lacking in manpower:
    -Kiev is actively mobilizing and boosting its numbers.
    -Novorossiya is actively recruiting volunteers.

    Kiev has and will continue to have the advantage in numbers, but many of the soldiers are unwilling and unmotivated. Desertion, surrender and running away are common.
    Novorossiya is not getting the desirable number of soldiers, but there is no lack of motivation. They are standing their ground as much as possible against superior numbers of the opponents and we hardly seen them running away or mass surrendering.

    Time is not on Kiev's side. If they don't accomplish their objectives within the next couple of weeks, their operation will run out of steam due to a number of financial, logistical, political, psychological  and moral reasons. If the rebels stand their ground for the next few weeks, they will start getting the upper hand with the steady flow of new recruits and the tide will turn.

    The next two weeks will be crucial for this conflict. In case Kiev manages to press ahead and capture Donetsk/Lugansk, the rebels will have to abandon their positional warfare strategy and proceed to partisan/guerilla style warfare.
    In case Kiev fails, the counter offensive towards Kharkov and/or other regions will bring the junta to the negotiating table.

    Just my two kopeks.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TheGeorgian on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:13 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    He told facts, CIA is involved in Ukraine, the CIA chef was seen twice in Kiew under Junta and that proofs it.

    CIA was let into Kremln under Jelzin in 1991 that is also known, but yes behave like everything is a consipracy theory.

    I am not your pal and you clearly didn't read my comment

    So what ? Russian military surveilance, FSB and other Russian security branches most likely involved in providing assistance and intel for the insurgency too. Fair game I'd say. So far US hasn't armed Ukrainian military & people to fight back, but provided some intel and humanitarian aid. What's so shocking about that ? if US wanted Ukraine would allready been flooded with mercs and weapons from all directions yet they hesitate to provide such next level support. Some Kiev paid mercs from Eastern Europe etc don't really add up + most the weapons are originaly from Ukraine. Most the weapons the separatists use are originaly from Ukraine.

    So I am slowly starting to believe that Russia is actualy providing crucial artillery support.
    Sure it would be rude assuming that the seps aren't able to learn how to use sophisticated artillery systems, howitzers etc .... especialy in such short time ( when professional armies need almost years to master D-30 howitzers ), but that is pin point precision there. It could even be guided missiles judging from the material and melted corpses on the ground.  

    It won't matter though. If the separatists get completly squeezed out of Donetsk and the surrounding cities, they will have to resort in Chechen style guerilla warfare what would make the situation even worse than just accepting defeat and cease of senseless bloodshed.


    Last edited by TheGeorgian on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:13 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.
    IDK man, shitty for Russian people You say? There are plenty of Russians who have more "bablo" than us, stupid hard working euros will ever have.

    And you just exposed the brutal truth of Russia- a giant wealth gap between all those Russians who got rich over the past 20 years (and they are damn well off) and the rest of the country, which is certainly NOT doing better than the majority of the EU.

    By some rankings Russia has the worst wealth inequality in the world. Sounds about right.
    Yeah especially breaks my heart to see people who work with youth as teachers or after school activity leaders. They get ridiculous low money they are still enthusiastic and basically drag Your generation on their shoulders. Before this Ukraine shit my mother had a group of Russian students coming over and traveling to conventions of biochemics in EU where they were offered placements or further education. There were plenty of Russians studying/working in NL afaik. Hell contrast is bigger than in my country, especially when a person from deep province comes and then it hits him. My VK is filled by people who left for west to get qualified jobs and they are all success stories. It makes me happy and sad same times as Lithuania is experiencing same shit, but on bigger scale.

    And then we have people who at best finished PU and somehow they became creme de la creme in Post Soviet society. 
    Don't get me wrong I still prefer them more than sovoks.

    Sorry for offtopic


    Last edited by Regular on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:14 am

    Will the separatists try to take more of Ukraine then the east?


    Last edited by Flyingdutchman on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:15 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.
    IDK man, shitty for Russian people You say? There are plenty of Russians who have more "bablo" than us, stupid hard working euros will ever have.

    And you just exposed the brutal truth of Russia- a giant wealth gap between all those Russians who got rich over the past 20 years (and they are damn well off) and the rest of the country, which is certainly NOT doing better than the majority of the EU.

    By some rankings Russia has the worst wealth inequality in the world. Sounds about right.

    TR1, the wealth gap is not limited to Russia, it is everywhere on this planet ...and it is getting worse each time I check it.
    The same argument can be used (and is being used) against the USA and the West and Africa etc.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  mack8 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:19 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.
    IDK man, shitty for Russian people You say? There are plenty of Russians who have more "bablo" than us, stupid hard working euros will ever have.

    And you just exposed the brutal truth of Russia- a giant wealth gap between all those Russians who got rich over the past 20 years (and they are damn well off) and the rest of the country, which is certainly NOT doing better than the majority of the EU.

    By some rankings Russia has the worst wealth inequality in the world. Sounds about right.

    Which is why the oligarchs are the biggest danger to Russia and it's independence and it's EXISTENCE. You can bet the vast majority will sell their mothers (let alone their country) for a few more millions added to their accounts. I bet that most of the russian oligarchs have extensive connections ABROAD and make a lot of money there, rather than in Russia. Again, that Ivanov guy is spot on when he says these bastards are the prime CIA target to buy. Imo, Russia should dedicate a gulag in Siberia to these bastards, i was looking on a list and there are HUNDREDS of them with more than 1 billion apiece.These are the fifth column.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:19 am

    TR1 wrote:CIA must have infiltrated the Russian gov as well, that might explain why they are so shitty for the Russian people.

    This might be collectively the greatest thread I have ever read. The amount of conspiracy/wackjob theories is astounding.

    Say's the guy who claimed that everyone who disagreed with you were paid agents of Vladimir Putin, classic moral superiority from you...lol1 

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:20 am

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    He told facts, CIA is involved in Ukraine, the CIA chef was seen twice in Kiew under Junta and that proofs it.

    CIA was let into Kremln under Jelzin in 1991 that is also known, but yes behave like everything is a consipracy theory.

    I am not your pal and you clearly didn't read my comment

    So what ? Russian military surveilance, FSB and other Russian security branches most likely involved in providing assistance and intel for the insurgency too. Fair game I'd say. So far US hasn't armed Ukrainian military & people to fight back, but provided some intel and humanitarian aid. What's so shocking about that ? if US wanted Ukraine would allready been flooded with mercs and weapons from all directions yet they hesitate to provide such next level support. Some Kiev paid mercs from Eastern Europe etc don't really add up + most the weapons are originaly from Ukraine. Most the weapons the separatists use are originaly from Ukraine.

    So I am slowly starting to believe that Russia is actualy providing crucial artillery support.
    Sure it would be rude assuming that the seps aren't able to learn how to use sophisticated artillery systems, howitzers etc .... especialy in such short time ( when professional armies need almost years to master D-30 howitzers ), but that is pin point precision there. It could even be guided missiles judging from the material and melted corpses on the ground.  

    It won't matter though. If the separatists get completly squeezed out of Donetsk and the surrounding cities, they will have to resort in Chechen style guerilla warfare what would make the situation even worse than just accepting defeat and cease of senseless bloodshed.

    Every other such conflict has lasted years, this one has barely taken off and you're talking about accepting defeat?
    Na. Of course, it's ultimately up to the people that live there. But they aren't a submissive lot once they get going, which they have done already.

    They need to hold until November basically. Even Janes has penned an article about how the risk of a new revolution in Kiev could drastically increase over the next few months, especially if the rebel problem isn't solved.

    Which will be difficult. But, the rebels are making the Ukrainians pay in lives for each inch of territory, they've suffered dozens of loses just today, and w/o gaining any new territory.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:22 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    In the Cauldron: The ground is burning under the feet of the occupants.

    The war is far from over. Kiev is pushing hard toward Donetsk and Lugansk while the rebels are pushing hard against the surrounded Kiev troops in the southern cauldron.
    Both sides are lacking in manpower:
    -Kiev is actively mobilizing and boosting its numbers.
    -Novorossiya is actively recruiting volunteers.

    Kiev has and will continue to have the advantage in numbers, but many of the soldiers are unwilling and unmotivated. Desertion, surrender and running away are common.
    Novorossiya is not getting the desirable number of soldiers, but there is no lack of motivation. They are standing their ground as much as possible against superior numbers of the opponents and we hardly seen them running away or mass surrendering.

    Time is not on Kiev's side. If they don't accomplish their objectives within the next couple of weeks, their operation will run out of steam due to a number of financial, logistical, political, psychological  and moral reasons. If the rebels stand their ground for the next few weeks, they will start getting the upper hand with the steady flow of new recruits and the tide will turn.

    The next two weeks will be crucial for this conflict. In case Kiev manages to press ahead and capture Donetsk/Lugansk, the rebels will have to abandon their positional warfare strategy and proceed to partisan/guerilla style warfare.
    In case Kiev fails, the counter offensive towards Kharkov and/or other regions will bring the junta to the negotiating table.

    Just my two kopeks.

    Very well said. +1
    You summarized all pretty well . Rebels only needs to hold  to defeat the kiev junta. and time is on their side.If the Rebels are forced to flee to Russia the conflict will still not end.. Since there millions of refugees in Russia will not just sit down and live forever in a refugee camp. This will be a long conflict ,and it will only end with Ukraine declare bankrupcy and no longer pay salaries of anyone. There is when the real revolution will start.  Cool 

    The ukraine army will want to be paid and will discover that Food and family is more important than a stupid flag.
    I predict major defections withing the Ukraine army and a coup to poroshenko too. People are not aware how dangerous is kiev position. if Poroshenko for example is killed , the nation will disband and there will be a fight for power in kiev. you cannot maintain loyalty when you not even have anything to eat. Chance Ukraine survive as a united Nation are Zero. And NATO powers knows this very well. THis is why they are trying to lure Russia into the conflict.. to try to get some nation unity with the help of the western media magic and more false flags.

    Honestly i cannot imagine any scenario that NATO will win in Ukraine in the long run . We are in 2014, i dont think in 2-3 years ukraine will exist. The war could end today and rebels flee and the problem will continue of Ukraine not having the things that every nation requires to continue being a nation. Soviet Russia economy was the reason it disbanded. No money , no honey. Ukraine is simply experimenting their soviet union collapse but with real war inside.  The only thing im concerned is false flags . A nuclear reactor in Ukraine could end destroyed if the west becomes really mad ,desperate and crazy or NATO mercenaries/right sector could start firing ballistic missiles at Russia from Ukraine in hopes to provoke Russia to invade or simply in frustration for losing their nation.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:41 am; edited 2 times in total

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