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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

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    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  arpakola on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:29 pm

    calripson wrote:The main investment vehicle of the Rothschilds into Russia and Eastern Europe is JNR UK Ltd, an investment bank specializing in Eastern Europe and Russia. JNR stands for Jacob and Nathaniel Rothschild. Since Feb. 2003, Nathaniel Rothschild has been director of JNR. JNR has offices in Guernsey and Switzerland. The decision to run JNR out of its Swiss and Guernsey offices was made for tax reasons. Most of the revenues are derived from outside the UK.

    Through JNR the Rothschilds run their operations inside Russia and Eastern Europe in conjunction with the Russian oligarchy. As previously reported, Nathaniel Rothschild, as director of JNR, is the chief advisor to Russian aluminum oligarch Oleg Deripaska and Deripaska's Rusal, the world's largest aluminum company, in which Rothschild is also heavily invested. In addition to his relationship to Oleg Deripaska, Nathaniel Rothschild's best friend is another Russian billionaire oligarch, Roman Abramovich. An earlier operation, the Wellsian, Open Russia Foundation, which was set up by the Rothschilds with Russian oligarch Khodorkovsky, was shut down in 2006 by Russian authorities after Khodorkovsky's criminal conviction.

    Just prior to his arrest, Khodorkovsky attempted to hand over control of the Yukos oil company to Jacob Rothschild. Khodorkovsky had a "previously unknown arrangement" with Jacob Rothschild for the latter to take control of the former's Yukos stock in the event that the former could no longer "act as a beneficiary" of the shares. This effort to give control of Yukos to Rothschild was thwarted when, in 2004, the government of Russia seized and sold Yukos's largest production unit in compensation for large back tax bills.

    In 2007, JNR acquired a corporate intelligence firm called Diligence to coordinate its intelligence operations in Russia as well as elsewhere. Diligence was founded in 2000 by Nick Day, a former British special forces and MI5 operative, and ex-CIA agent Mike Baker, who no longer works for the company. Day reportedly saw an opening for a new business when British companies were entering emerging markets, targeting Russia. According to Handelsblatt, more than half of their roughly 100 employees are former members of an intelligence service.

    Michael Howard, former UK Conservative Party leader sits on Diligence's advisory board beside Judge William Webster, former director of the CIA and FBI, and Edward Mathias, managing director of Carlyle. Diligence describes itself as an intelligence-gathering and risk-management firm. It now boasts offices in London, Washington, Moscow and Hong Kong."

    its true that Russian Oligarchs.. (may i use this term once..) hate the Donbass popularists  making speaches of patriotism in front of the portrait of Chaves..
    They prefer loyalty to NATO and Poroshenko 100 times , then to have next door people like Gubarev to deal with..

    You see Ukraine case brought Russian sosciety in front of it self and the road that has to deside to take. After a decate of happy development the real issues rise up.
    With the Oligarchs or with the people.. ?
    that the question Vlad has to answer .. and ther no escape from that

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l3vdnJnJxXo/U4XxCqJ7NdI/AAAAAAAAHH0/y58Yy6gevIk/s1600/save+donbass2.jpg

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:37 pm

    It will interesting to find out who are the famous 66 people exhumed from two massgraves in Slovensk:D what do you think?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:48 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:Wow ukraine is having pretty Much mig-29s but how many are taken by Russia in Crimea?

    Russia took about 20 Mig-29s . but the military base looked more like a junkyard with 95% of the planes in disastrous conditions not operable. About 2 of them worked out of 20 more or less. Not sure if Russia returned them.

    About NATO officially invading Ukraine. is very unlikely that will happen.  The Reason is that they do not want to be officially associated with Kiev warcrimes and genocide against civilians. If for example NATO was already inside.. Russia media will destroy NATO image by showing civilians killed like the blond girl with its baby.. Creating a negative image of NATO more that the one they already have will be bad for them.   Aside that if NATO invades Ukraine it will legitimize
    Russia to arm the rebels with modern weapons.. and it will be a major humiliation for them and a Public relations disaster to get NATO soldiers in the hundreds or thousands killed in Ukraine .And their TAnks wiped by Kornets-D and precision artillery.

    In my opinion NATO already invaded long time ago.. just undercover.. they are not just using their Airforce and tanks because it will lure Russia into the conflict with their modern weapons and they will end experiencing their Napoleon war or their soviet afganistan.. just reversed this time.. and Russia arming the Rebels.

    In NATO or at least Poland and Lithuane invades.. with tanks and airforce to help kiev.. it will drive Russia inside too with heavy weapons. NATO will be at disadvantage without control of the airspace and Russia S-400s tracking them.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Flyingdutchman
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:57 pm

    How close is a Russian intervention currently?
    Is there a chance they will go in anytime soon?

    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:11 pm

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/un-says-mh-17-downing-may-be-war-crime-russia-responds-photos-ukraine-shelling-are-f

    UN working up to brand Putin a war criminal? On what evidence and charges?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Airbornewolf on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:30 pm

    just to remove a misunderstanding here and there...

    Yes...several dutch millitary units got activated for deployment. gotten an direct mobilisation order this weekend. these units where KMAR (millitary police), Luchtmobiel (Airborne) and KCT (Commandos).

    but, for some strange reason the order was as suddenly withdrawn as it was given after just a few hours. and only left active for the KMAR. reason unknown but among the troops it raised some questionmarks. you do not tell your troops to go tell at home "your heading for a warzone immidiatly" to recall that very order a few hours later.
    the politicians are the only ones that can give this type of order. but, someone up the top ranks either put his foot down with the politicians or something made the politicians to drastically alter their initial given orders to the army.

    i put my money on a conflict of the minister of Defense with the top-staff of the millitary. she is highly disliked by both officers and the men for lying with a smile, and meanwhile take the last bits of hard-needed budget away to further her own carreer in politics.

    its in whatever the case may be an highly-unusual course of developments millitary-wise. but first KMAR have arrived at Kharkov at this time. their precise orders or goals are unknown to me at this time.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:39 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/un-says-mh-17-downing-may-be-war-crime-russia-responds-photos-ukraine-shelling-are-f

    UN working up to brand Putin a war criminal? On what evidence and charges?
    Nonsense. It's too early to name warcriminals yet, no matter who are they. Both sides should be investigated before finding a scapegoat. This is not only non constructive and it actualy prevents finding the ones responsible for the crimes in a WARZONE.

    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:49 pm

    At this point, sitting around doing nothing wont solve the issue. Russia might as well shell ukraine troop positions, give seps proper artillery, then provide strikes for seps at any further Ukr troops deployment. Movie sam systems near border with pantsirs to protect the sites, and start shooting at enemy planes flying by. Let the seps then gain ground.

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:13 pm

    TR1 wrote:What a retarded caption.

    ...Showing your moral superiority yet again... Wink 

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:29 pm

    To mock Putin’s pride and test his paranoia is folly

    Why does foreign policy default to stupid? From the moment that we heard of the Malaysian airliner shot down over Ukraine it was clearly an accident. Whoever’s finger was on the trigger, the tragedy cannot have been meant. This was not another 9/11. It was cock-up, not conspiracy.

    Yet foreign policy craves conspiracy. Vladimir Putin blamed the Ukrainian government. Ukraine blamed the pro-Russian rebels. America’s U.N. ambassador, Samantha Power, said that Moscow’s responsibility cannot be “ruled out.” London howled blue murder all round. There had been blood. There had to be blame.

    Dangerous moments

    What happened was a ghastly mess in bandit country, meriting the swiftest possible restoration of dignity for the victims. Yet before even the bodies had been collected, politicians vied with each other for tightening sanctions, ending trade, expelling oligarchs and freezing bank accounts. Soon they were fighting like rats in a sack. Barack Obama was a wimp. François Hollande was an appeaser. David Cameron was a hypocrite. The philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy hurled down thunderbolts on everyone, “This is the spirit of Munich — appeasement. And it is a disgrace.”

    These moments are dangerous. In 1914, the Austrian government declared the madcap shooting of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand a “Serbian government plot” and went to war. In 1983, the Russians shot down a Korean airliner that had strayed over Siberia, killing all 269 people on board. It was clearly an accident, the fighter pilots’ ground control being drunk and panicking. This intelligence was suppressed and the incident exploited to precipitate one of the most scary confrontations of the cold war.

    Five years later it was America’s turn, when a U.S. cruiser shot down an Iranian civilian Airbus A300 in Iranian airspace. The U.S. navy wriggled and excused itself, while Iran seized on it as a crime of wanton aggression, aided by America rewarding its sailors with medals. Washington refused to admit legal liability, and took eight years to pay $62m in compensation to bereaved families.

    What is terrifying is how such incidents are distorted to suit the interests of revenge. Clearly Putin has been reckless along Russia’s western frontier, backing Ukrainian rebels with enough weaponry to make accidents more likely to happen. Yet the idea that he willed the tragedy is as absurd as that Konstantin Chernenko willed the Korean massacre or Ronald Reagan the downing of an Iranian plane.

    Putin must have been as appalled as anyone at the fate of the airliner. It also sabotaged his delicate power play in the region and threw him on the defensive. Intelligence from Moscow suggests that he is bruised and angry, retreating into his circle of hawkish advisers and their nationalist rhetoric. This is the moment Confucius advises us to give the enemy a bridge over which to retreat. Instead, the West’s hawks are having a field day, deriding Putin’s paranoia as if to goad him into doing something worse.

    Visiting Russia in the 1990s after its humiliation in the Cold War, I found it a sad and dangerous place, not unlike Germany after its defeat in 1918. Yet it was as if no western diplomat had read the Treaty of Versailles, or noted Keynes’ warning of the consequences. Much was done to build economic ties between west and east. Energy, investment and contacts flowed back and forth. Western companies cavorted with oligarchs and kleptocrats. Money stolen from the Russian people gushed into the wildcat banks of Cyprus and London and into the Swiss and British property markets. London must rank as the greatest receiver of stolen goods of all time.

    So far, so good. But at the same time, NATO and the EU rolled forward over Eastern Europe to the Russian frontier, as if aiming its guns at the gates of Moscow to taunt Russia for its defeat. NATO apologists argued that any country, be it Latvia, Georgia or Ukraine, should be free to join whichever club it liked (albeit objecting when Crimeans voted the other way). Yet only fools can ignore the fact of Russian pride and fear of encirclement. The post-Cold War provocation of Putin was good public relations, but it was rotten history.

    We are told that east Ukraine is one of many potential explosions that Putin could trigger along the Russian border, from the Baltic to the Caucasus. Everywhere are Russian minorities (or majorities) that could clash with local non-Russians. Europe’s leaders have no conceivable interest in stirring up such conflicts — and yet that was precisely what they sought to do in Georgia and Ukraine.


    The West’s hypocrisy

    For Britain — or America — to try and lay down the law along Russia’s extensive borders is barking mad; to use a tragic plane accident as casus belli equally so. It is nothing but breast-beating machismo. Yet again we lurch towards the woolly-headed daftness of economic sanctions. It is beyond hypocrisy for the West to demand sanctions against Moscow when it happily buys Russian gas and sells Russia guns, ships, Knightsbridge flats and places at Eton. These double-standards are of our hand. According to the commons committee on arms exports, Britain currently sells arms worth £12bn to 27 countries listed by the Foreign Office as “of human rights concern.” It cannot enhance world peace to make Europe’s energy more expensive, Russian loans harder to get or Harrods less accessible to “Putin’s cronies.” Putin could not care less.

    Economic sanctions are to modern statecraft what mounted lancers were to war in the trenches: magnificent but useless. Their continued deployment defies study after study showing them as cosmetic, cruel or counterproductive. Yet how many times has Cameron emerged from his Cobra bunker to threaten “tighter economic sanctions” against some rogue regime, to absolutely no effect? The rhetoric is always the same, to “send a message”, show resolve, impose a price, not to let “wrongdoing go unpunished.” It is as if Britain were some superannuated school prefect.

    The emergence in Moscow in the 1990s of a tough, philistine nationalist like Putin was a near certainty. He may be a nasty piece of work but he runs what it is still a powerful nation. Mocking his pride and testing his paranoia is for fools. The one country that knows this and can keep a sane head on its shoulders is run by Angela Merkel. Thank goodness for Germany


    © Guardian Newspapers Limited, 2014

    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/to-mock-putins-pride-and-test-his-paranoia-is-folly/article6250156.ece

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:47 pm

    The usual thugs ie, polish government  and Britain are already accusing Putin of warcrimes for the
    downing of the plane.. saying preliminary evidence shows missile came from the Rebels Putins support with weapons.. LOL

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/742628

    How could anyone expect a credible investigation from such countries? That to this date support the
    Terrorist in Syria?  The Polish government wants unlimited Free access to the crash site + more sanctions to Russia..
    basically without any clear investigation done ,they plan to point fingers at Russia.  They know is a false flag attack and they plan to protect the Kiev Nazis attack for geopolitical advantage. And the Malasyan Government giving up the investigation to Britain ,show how much involved they are in the crime. NATO have already declared a diplomatic and economic war on Russia.. it remains to be seen how all this turn.. The Rebels needs to win and not only in Donetsk and lugansk but also on Kharkiv and mariupol and create a shield with NOvorossia ..to improve their Nation security otherwise they will need to be ready to move all their border cities 50km away from the border with Ukraine.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:25 pm

    Separatist are doing anything, but winning. Ukrainian army got it's act up. Even in the southern cauldron. Without russia it's done deal.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:27 pm

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/russia-slams-puzzling-and-unprecedented-50-billion-yukos-award-challenges-one-sided-?page=1

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:36 pm

    I still wonder, why Novorussian army didn't make full mobilization of reservists. What are they waiting? That Kiev junta destroy all infrastructure they have, to destroy all resident areas? How many civilians will have to die, that they will mobilize enough reservists to defeat Kiev junta and free their land of nazis? Waiting on volunteers is nonsense. Kiev already made their third mobilization. Novorussia need 50.000 soldiers in 4 divisions to defend their homes.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:39 pm

    medo wrote:I still wonder, why Novorussian army didn't make full mobilization of reservists. What are they waiting? That Kiev junta destroy all infrastructure they have, to destroy all resident areas? How many civilians will have to die, that they will mobilize enough reservists to defeat Kiev junta and free their land of nazis? Waiting on volunteers is nonsense. Kiev already made their third mobilization. Novorussia need 50.000 soldiers in 4 divisions to defend their homes.
    Few are willing to join. Imagine mobilisation, if most nationalistic par of western Ukraine gets protests and people are hiding from being mobilised. And they were the ones screaming for war. Eastern Ukrainians dont want to fight. All this Sep movement is getting less and less popular. I bet people have Ukrainian flags at home just in case RS thugs come breaking in and question their royalty Cool

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:59 pm

    There is a big difference. Western Ukrainians are going to fight in someone else's territory. Eastern Ukrainians in Novorussia are fighting to defend their homes and their own land. Mobilization to defend your home is different than mobilization to attack someone. What choice do they have? To fight and die in battlefield or to die at home together with whole family, because they don't want to fight?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:33 pm

    We beat them in all fronts since 2011, we beat them is Syria, we beat the in Iraq and we will DEFINITELY BEAT them here. What's going on with this pessimism gang?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Giulio on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:01 pm

    Hello. May I ask some questions?
    1) For you, the Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens, feel they themselves like Ukrainians or Russians?
    Because here in Italy we have the papers they write things like: "The separatists Russian-speaking Ukrainians, are Ukrainians ...".
    I do not know the history of Ukraine, but:
    2) There are also citizens of Ukraine with Russian passports?
    3) If yes, the Ukrainians with Russian passports, feel they Russians?
    4) The Russian-speaking Ukrainians, also without Russian passport, feel they Russians?
    Thanks.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:37 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:We beat them in all fronts since 2011, we beat them is Syria, we beat the in Iraq and we will DEFINITELY BEAT them here. What's going on with this pessimism gang?

    It's the first step to Ukrainization. It's how the country works. It converts those disillusioned by Russia or doubting it's capabilities - into Ukrainian patriots.

    Regular will be shouting 'SLAVA UKRAINY' soon.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TheGeorgian on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:46 pm

    Heh. Didn't believe I'd be withnessing a classic envelope-and distract manouver by Ukr military. They suddenly seem to be getting a grip over the situation and actualy using sharp military tactics to fight the separatists. Majority of my information turns out to be correct so far. It's all about capturing Donetsk and when that happens, the seps are in very deep trouble.

    and Barka, what are you talking about ? Who beat who in Syria, Iraq etc ? US beat itself in Iraq / Afghanistan .... Syria is still ongoing mess nobody wants to take responsibility for. "We" has absolutly nothing to do with it ....  Rolling Eyes it's their own stupidity and Russia ain't involved in any of those conflicts at all. But hey, if you know more then Kremlin itself .... please share.


    Last edited by TheGeorgian on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:53 pm; edited 4 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:47 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:We beat them in all fronts since 2011, we beat them is Syria, we beat the in Iraq and we will DEFINITELY BEAT them here. What's going on with this pessimism gang?

    It's the first step to Ukrainization. It's how the country works. It converts those disillusioned by Russia or doubting it's capabilities - into Ukrainian patriots.

    Regular will be shouting 'SLAVA UKRAINY' soon.

    What?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:55 pm

    Giulio wrote:Hello. May I ask some questions?
    1) For you, the Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens, feel they themselves like Ukrainians or Russians?
    Because here in Italy we have the papers they write things like: "The separatists Russian-speaking Ukrainians, are Ukrainians ...".
    I do not know the history of Ukraine, but:
    2) There are also citizens of Ukraine with Russian passports?
    3) If yes, the Ukrainians with Russian passports, feel they Russians?
    4) The Russian-speaking Ukrainians, also without Russian passport, feel they Russians?
    Thanks.

    IF in United States.. one of their 50 states.. Florida split ,because US economy collapse and goes bankrupt.
    And the residents of Florida create a new country and declare their independence.  Will you call floridan people after they gain independence.. like a different ethnic group of Americans? no.. the exception is CUbans but they are migrants. so you will call them Americans from former a former state.    Is very similar to Ukraine.  Ukraine did not exist before 1918 and only have like 30 year of independence ,because in 1922 it became part of Russia again under soviet Union and only in the 90s it split again.
    Ukraine is a native Russian Land. and 90% of Ukraine territory was a native Russian Land.



    Ukrainian ancestors are all Russians.. with the only exception of the minorities Nazis from the western city of LVOV from where the Euromaidans comes. They never were Russians ,they are Polish first and ukraine second. Ukraine is simply a German-American project , the creation of an artificial state to stop Russia expansion into the west. It was not through referendum that Ukraine became a nation but through Germany army invasion. So it doesn't matter how Ukrainians "Feel" who they are.. Ukraine is not a real nation ,neither is an ethnic group. They ,most of them are Ethnic Russians , but that some of them "feel" they are something else.  In general terms for simplicity ,and In real practice ,(look at the map) what you have in Ukraine territory is Russians vs Polish fighting each other to take total control of the whole territory. NATO support the 20%-30% Polish in Ukraine.. and Russia support the 70%-80% Russians in Ukraine. How can a minority take control of a nation? Thanks to the violent coup promoted organized and financed by the white house. Ukraine language is a dialect of Old Russian. and Kiev was the first capital of Russia back in the 900s. What helped to create a dialect was the invasion of mongols that split Russian speaking community into west and east.  The ukrainians that feel they are not Russians have been simply brainwashed by western propaganda ,that have a program since 1918 to Reverse History and remove their Russian past.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:14 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:57 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Regular will be shouting 'SLAVA UKRAINY' soon.
    Nah, there isn't much "Slava" in Ukraine. Odessa is enough to make all sane people to think twice before supporting Ukraine. 
    I might be losing hope in separatists, I simply dislike their recent course of actions. Their leaders are really shady characters. Their all movement looked more like Junta than Ukrainian Gov. Tsarev was only proper representative of people, but one person is not enough. Separatist movement feels way too rushed. They should have waited for a year or two. 
    But that's the past, and I would rather have witnessed Russian military strikes to decapitate Ukrainian ATO when it was only beginning than this prolonged meatgrinder.


    Last edited by Regular on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:58 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:Heh. Didn't believe I'd be withnessing a classic envelope-and distract manouver by Ukr military. They suddenly seem to be getting a grip over the situation and actualy using sharp military tactics to fight the separatists. Majority of my information turns out to be correct so far. It's all about capturing Donetsk and when that happens, the seps are in very deep trouble.

    and Barka, what are you talking about ? Who beat who in Syria, Iraq etc ? US beat itself in Iraq / Afghanistan .... Syria is still ongoing mess nobody wants to take responsibility for. "We" has absolutly nothing to do with it ....  Rolling Eyes it's their own stupidity and Russia ain't involved in any of those conflicts at all. But hey, if you know more then Kremlin itself .... please share.

    Syria is over, pal. All the FSA and AL-CIAda were rebranded as ISIS and now heading to IRAQ. Assad won big time.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:04 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:Heh. Didn't believe I'd be withnessing a classic envelope-and distract manouver by Ukr military. They suddenly seem to be getting a grip over the situation and actualy using sharp military tactics to fight the separatists. Majority of my information turns out to be correct so far. It's all about capturing Donetsk and when that happens, the seps are in very deep trouble.

    and Barka, what are you talking about ? Who beat who in Syria, Iraq etc ? US beat itself in Iraq / Afghanistan .... Syria is still ongoing mess nobody wants to take responsibility for. "We" has absolutly nothing to do with it ....  Rolling Eyes it's their own stupidity and Russia ain't involved in any of those conflicts at all. But hey, if you know more then Kremlin itself .... please share.

    Don't try to bring sense to these rants. This "We" crap is making me laugh my ass off.

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