Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Share

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:38 pm

    Sounds interesting and promising.

    Like others have already stated that it won't operate alone, obviously, but serve among real armored fighting vehicles.
    However, with all its devices to detect threats in a very wide spectrum that it could be used as a target spotter for AFV/IFV's in low intense battle environment.
    The question is does it have a data link to transfer all necessary digital information of spotted threats to other plattforms?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:22 pm

    The question is does it have a data link to transfer all necessary digital information of spotted threats to other platforms?
    All vehicles will be net centric with threats appearing on screens as they are detected/identified.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Regular
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1956
    Points : 1963
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    SBRM service combat reconnaissance vehicle

    Post  Regular on Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:59 pm

    NickM wrote:
    Sujoy wrote:I do not know much about the armor on this vehicle but this vehicle will also be ideal for low intensity urban conflict.
    Coz you say so ? You my non friend need to do some serious research before you post such comments on an open forum .

    If this vehicle takes a hit from an RPG it will blow the ass off the occupants till kingdom comes .

    Hope you read this - The only vehicle capable of operating in a hostile urban environment and surviving small arm fire is the MRAP .

    http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2007/mrap/

    Only the MRAP can survive IED's and RPGs and also has the firepower to turn the heat on the attackers .
    RPG would definitely will be lethal here, but so it is for MRAP vehicles. Tandem warhead will pierce through any MRAP that exists. Ideal vehicle for that is HAPC. But I doubt that this baby will be used like that. If it was created it means there is a need for this type of vehicle, Israel already employs these kind systems and it proven to be successful. I imagine it will be perfect for cordoning/hunting down insurgents while patrolling the border. Those rats tend to hide their arses in the mountains and forests and flee every time it gets hot. Usually there are few terrorists and not an army so finding them is a hard task.

    Not to mention -
    Cost efficiency. By this point even engine consumption matters. Why? It's not Afghanistan- Caucasus isn't war zone. All the bloody work is still done by guys with RPOs and Ak-74s in their hands to minimise collateral damage. People don't live in the mud huts so forget about evacuating all village and wiping it off. There are no tanks on the streets anymore. Most of situations involve interior troops finding insurgents before they do something stupid. People still want to live in that neighbourhood so You can't bomb it or use 125mm around. Even RPO is used when there is no other solution. You want to make sure that there is no one slipping out and well to be honest, most of the weapons they find are makarovs, saw-off, old AKs, hunting rifles, grenades. RPG are rare and if You want to acquire one probably You will stumble FSB insider who will lead operators to Your door step.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:13 am

    Sorry for raising this old thread but just came across this article from June 9th:

    The Special Forces unit of Russia’s Central Military District will receive a total of ten new Tiger armored vehicles. This statement was made by Colonel Yaroslav Roschupkin, a spokesman for the Central Military District, on Friday.

    Earlier this year, Col. Roschupkin reported that the Central Military District was to receive 24 Tigers by the end of 2014. Last year, Deputy Defence Minister Yury Borisov said Russian Armed Forces’ demand for Tigers had reached unprecedented levels following the modernization of Tigers that eliminated the previous advantages of Iveco’s Lynx light motor vehicles.

    “The Tolyatti Special Forces division will receive a total of ten new armored GAZ-233014 Tigers. In accordance with the state arms procurement program, the vehicles will be supplied by the end of 2014,” Col. Roschupkin pointed out.

    So the original Tigrs were inferior to the Lynx, but further improvements led to it being better in the areas they thought were important so now they in high demand... that is good. Smile


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3054
    Points : 3152
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:16 am

    There are no words about Lynx for a long time. Is it still in production from the first batch of ~700 vehicles, from the first contract? They said they will not cancel it, because of costs.

    cracker
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 232
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2014-09-03

    tigr family, how many planed in total, how many in service now?

    Post  cracker on Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:07 am

    all in the title... I was quite surprised in march 2014 to see so many tigrs in crimea, and, more and more among many units in russia.

    I love these vehicles!

    and about the iveco LMV (or whatever it is), how about it? in production and in service?


    and, it's true that almost no UAZ-469 remain truly in service? (like, almost all replaced by 4x4 ural / gaz / kamaz trucks), i don't seem to see any of those lately.... How about the procurement of the UAZ "tigr" ? i recall some units had them with PKP and AGS-30


    more questions!

    -how about the GAZ "vodnik" family, are any of them in service, and, is it still produced? i like a lot this machine
    -how about the BPM 97 "vystrel", also in service? will be replaced?

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:31 am

    -how about the GAZ "vodnik" family, are any of them in service, and, is it still produced? i like a lot this machine

    Don't know about the amount of Vodnik's i also love this beauty, but what i heared is that they found its performance unsatisfactory and stopped further production, but do not know for sure.

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1774
    Points : 1814
    Join date : 2010-08-17

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:06 am

    cracker wrote:all in the title... I was quite surprised in march 2014 to see so many tigrs in crimea, and, more and more among many units in russia.

    I love these vehicles!

    and about the iveco LMV (or whatever it is), how about it? in production and in service?


    and, it's true that almost no UAZ-469 remain truly in service? (like, almost all replaced by 4x4 ural / gaz / kamaz trucks), i don't seem to see any of those lately.... How about the procurement of the UAZ "tigr" ? i recall some units had them with PKP and AGS-30


    more questions!

    -how about the GAZ "vodnik" family, are any of them in service, and, is it still produced? i like a lot this machine
    -how about the BPM 97 "vystrel", also in service? will be replaced?

    GAZ-2975 Tigr - have seen estimates of as high as 500 in service and as low as 120. Expect many more to be produced.
    Iveco LMV - original order was for 57 vehicles for testing and a further 358 kits to be assembled in Russia. They should all be in service this year and no more are planned.
    UAZ-469 - still see them around and there will be some use for them in the future but the Tigr, LMV and the new Skorpion-2M will eliminate field usage.
    Skorpion-2M - replacement for the UAZ-469 and very similar to the LMV.
    GAZ Vodnik - understand only ~100 produced. Believe them to be used by the Strategic Rocket Forces as patrol and escort vehicles.
    VPK-3927 Volk - starts production this year and will replace need for Vodnik type.
    BPM 97 Vystrel - have read that they were being tested by the Russian Army but not confirmed. They are in use with the Border Guard Service.


    Last edited by franco on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total

    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1523
    Points : 1686
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:09 am

    A few years ago, it was mentioned that the Arzamas plant would produce around 500 Tigrs per year.
    That was quite a few years ago. Did they produce that many per year? Less? More?
    For sure, a few thousand were produced thus far. Most went to the Army. Some went to police and other paramilitary forces. Some were exported to other countries. Some (not many) were civilian variants.

    As Werewolf indicated, Vodnik production seems to have stopped. Probably a few dozens (maybe a bit more) were produced in total.

    Vystrel production may still be going on a small scale. Probably a few dozens were made for the army, I believe some were exported to Kazakhstan. A few were seen in Lugansk region of Ukraine.

    cracker
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 232
    Points : 273
    Join date : 2014-09-03

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  cracker on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:45 am

    ok, thanks.


    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TR1 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:54 pm

    Vodnik was rejected because the MOD did not buy into the whole modular kuzov concept.
    Vystrel is by all acounts shit.

    Tigr is alright. As a utility vehicle it is pretty good, but the question is how does it fair compared to Iveco in protection.
    The issue is with the whole Iveco debacle, is the domestic industry howled how they would make it all themselves, when it became apparent even the MOD was fed up with their incompetence.
    After the Iveco deal was canned, the Tigr was supposed to be modernized into the 6A variant with improved and up to date mine/IED protection and higher level of ballistic protection than the basic GOST 5 Tigr.

    And here we are in 2015, and the Tigr 6A still has not passed trials, rumor is (quoting Makrushin here, twower blog owner) they can't make it meet the required performance level, and it is questionable if they will be able to at all while maintaining vehicle mobility performance.


    So there you have it.

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3188
    Points : 3316
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:20 pm

    Why not go with the Vol to replace the baseline Tigrs and Ivecos?

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-05
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:34 pm

    Apparently Ivecos were garbage in mobility, including muddy terrain. Tigr was supposed to be replaced by Volk which has better armor and similar mobility but heard nothing.

    sheytanelkebir
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 479
    Points : 496
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri May 01, 2015 6:03 am

    the problem with all these new fangled "humvee types" is that they are too wide / heavy to go into many places that the UAZ-469 could navigate effortlessly.

    Iraqis were gifted 10,000+ HUMVEES by the americans... yet they went and bought hundreds of new build UAZ-469s which are operated by recon units as well as by battalion commanders!

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 01, 2015 2:38 pm

    Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.

    rtech
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 21
    Points : 23
    Join date : 2014-12-11

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  rtech on Fri May 01, 2015 3:22 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:the problem with all these new fangled "humvee types" is that they are too wide / heavy to go into many places that the UAZ-469 could navigate effortlessly.

    Iraqis were gifted 10,000+ HUMVEES by the americans... yet they went and bought hundreds of new build UAZ-469s which are operated by recon units as well as by battalion commanders!

    Our Army wasnt happy with UAZ in Iraq they complained about lack of air conditioning and "adaptation to desert condition" i suspect sand and dust clogging the air filter. Can you fill us in on that?

    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1523
    Points : 1686
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri May 01, 2015 7:54 pm

    TR1 wrote:Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.

    Agreed. Uazik and Tigr are in completely different weight categories.

    BTW, any news on the Skorpion in the tests?

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1774
    Points : 1814
    Join date : 2010-08-17

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Fri May 01, 2015 8:18 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.

    Agreed. Uazik and Tigr are in completely different weight categories.

    BTW, any news on the Skorpion in the tests?

    Tests for the Skorpion just finished. Manufacturer awaiting orders on 3 different prototypes.

    It appears like there will be Skorpions for utilities, Tigrs for specialized and Volks for transport.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 02, 2015 6:50 am

    The issue with the Humvee was that the first models were very heavy yet they seemed to have drive trains and suspension designed for a lighter vehicle.

    When they first got them they were treated like light armoured vehicles... ie BRDM-2s.

    they were not even small arms proof however which led to problems and an increase in armour which made them even heavier.

    The Vodnik had no chance with the Russian Army as it was not amphibious... for a Strategic Missile forces guard vehicle it is fine.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3188
    Points : 3316
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 7:54 am

    sepheronx wrote:Apparently Ivecos were garbage in mobility, including muddy terrain. Tigr was supposed to be replaced by Volk which has better armor and similar mobility but heard nothing.

    Ivecos could be transfered for example to the MVD VV; where mobility is less important but mine/IED protection is more critical.

    Or they could be perhaps gifted to Belarus or Armenia; they don't have any mine-protected vehicles at all AFAIK.

    I really don't see the advantage of keeping them around in the army; it only complicates logistics.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 8:07 am; edited 2 times in total

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3188
    Points : 3316
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 7:57 am

    GarryB wrote:The Vodnik had no chance with the Russian Army as it was not amphibious... for a Strategic Missile forces guard vehicle it is fine.

    As far as I recall it technically is; albeit it has a low speed while floating (no pump-jets; only wheels) and it can only exit water at low elevations and shallow angles; which criples its amphibious capabilities for most practical purposes.

    sheytanelkebir
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 479
    Points : 496
    Join date : 2013-09-16

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat May 02, 2015 7:08 pm

    rtech wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:the problem with all these new fangled "humvee types" is that they are too wide / heavy to go into many places that the UAZ-469 could navigate effortlessly.

    Iraqis were gifted 10,000+ HUMVEES by the americans... yet they went and bought hundreds of new build UAZ-469s which are operated by recon units as well as by battalion commanders!

    Our Army wasnt happy with UAZ in Iraq they complained about lack of air conditioning and "adaptation to desert condition" i suspect sand and dust clogging the air filter. Can you fill us in on that?

    They seem fine in Iraq. Certainly better than Humvee but not as good as the various commercial pickups they use as gun trucks.


    The scorpion 2m seems to have the same issue as others compared to UAZ. It is 2.1 m wide. Not as bad as humvee or tigr... But still pretty wide and heavy. They need to make a truly modern day Willis jeep / uaz469 not these bloated monstrosities. I'd imagine even in Russia there will be many many places inaccessible by these vehicles that a UAZ can stroll through with ease. I remember in southern iraq some units would leave their humvee at depot and make their patrols in tuctuc (or a UAZ if they had one... But the UAZ are rare)... Simply for driving on canal levees.  Narrow village roads and alleys. In palm groves and getting up and down the small irrigation channels everywhere.

    Sure in open desert or a wide road the wide vehicles are superior. But the military always to into difficult areas as part of their job and they really do need a narrow vehicle. The iranian little safeer jeep also is quite nifty for that role IMHO. Russian army needs a true replacement for UAZ IMHO a scorpion 1 or 2 which keeps the external dimensions of the UAZ but updating the mechanicals for more modern engine and transmission would fit the bill. Maybe even an electric / hybrid option that would allow the driver to use "electric drive" when going towards where he wants to reduce noise... Jeep is making such a hybrid with a 60km electric range (plus petrol engine for the remainder)

    Cyberspec
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1946
    Points : 2117
    Join date : 2011-08-07
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 03, 2015 2:46 am

    Something like this maybe...it can carry 6 passengers, goes just about anywhere and looks pretty small....there's a 6 wheelled version as well


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2015 6:13 am

    As far as I recall it technically is; albeit it has a low speed while floating (no pump-jets; only wheels) and it can only exit water at low elevations and shallow angles; which criples its amphibious capabilities for most practical purposes.

    I believe the advertising material stated that it had a water displacing hull... which basically meant it was water tight for fording but did not float in all (most) configurations.

    For light vehicles there is Ansyr



    and Skorpion light tactical:



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3188
    Points : 3316
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sun May 03, 2015 8:56 am

    GarryB wrote:I believe the advertising material stated that it had a water displacing hull... which basically meant it was water tight for fording but did not float in all (most) configurations.

    That it does, but it's also amphibious




    AFAIK while it ordinarily uses its wheels for water traversal, a waterjet can optionally be mounted too.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 7:06 pm


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:06 pm