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    Infantry Mobility Vehicles

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    medo
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:16 pm

    There are no words about Lynx for a long time. Is it still in production from the first batch of ~700 vehicles, from the first contract? They said they will not cancel it, because of costs.

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    tigr family, how many planed in total, how many in service now?

    Post  cracker on Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:07 am

    all in the title... I was quite surprised in march 2014 to see so many tigrs in crimea, and, more and more among many units in russia.

    I love these vehicles!

    and about the iveco LMV (or whatever it is), how about it? in production and in service?


    and, it's true that almost no UAZ-469 remain truly in service? (like, almost all replaced by 4x4 ural / gaz / kamaz trucks), i don't seem to see any of those lately.... How about the procurement of the UAZ "tigr" ? i recall some units had them with PKP and AGS-30


    more questions!

    -how about the GAZ "vodnik" family, are any of them in service, and, is it still produced? i like a lot this machine
    -how about the BPM 97 "vystrel", also in service? will be replaced?
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    Werewolf
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:31 am

    -how about the GAZ "vodnik" family, are any of them in service, and, is it still produced? i like a lot this machine

    Don't know about the amount of Vodnik's i also love this beauty, but what i heared is that they found its performance unsatisfactory and stopped further production, but do not know for sure.
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    franco
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:06 pm

    cracker wrote:all in the title... I was quite surprised in march 2014 to see so many tigrs in crimea, and, more and more among many units in russia.

    I love these vehicles!

    and about the iveco LMV (or whatever it is), how about it? in production and in service?


    and, it's true that almost no UAZ-469 remain truly in service? (like, almost all replaced by 4x4 ural / gaz / kamaz trucks), i don't seem to see any of those lately.... How about the procurement of the UAZ "tigr" ? i recall some units had them with PKP and AGS-30


    more questions!

    -how about the GAZ "vodnik" family, are any of them in service, and, is it still produced? i like a lot this machine
    -how about the BPM 97 "vystrel", also in service? will be replaced?

    GAZ-2975 Tigr - have seen estimates of as high as 500 in service and as low as 120. Expect many more to be produced.
    Iveco LMV - original order was for 57 vehicles for testing and a further 358 kits to be assembled in Russia. They should all be in service this year and no more are planned.
    UAZ-469 - still see them around and there will be some use for them in the future but the Tigr, LMV and the new Skorpion-2M will eliminate field usage.
    Skorpion-2M - replacement for the UAZ-469 and very similar to the LMV.
    GAZ Vodnik - understand only ~100 produced. Believe them to be used by the Strategic Rocket Forces as patrol and escort vehicles.
    VPK-3927 Volk - starts production this year and will replace need for Vodnik type.
    BPM 97 Vystrel - have read that they were being tested by the Russian Army but not confirmed. They are in use with the Border Guard Service.


    Last edited by franco on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    TheArmenian
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:09 pm

    A few years ago, it was mentioned that the Arzamas plant would produce around 500 Tigrs per year.
    That was quite a few years ago. Did they produce that many per year? Less? More?
    For sure, a few thousand were produced thus far. Most went to the Army. Some went to police and other paramilitary forces. Some were exported to other countries. Some (not many) were civilian variants.

    As Werewolf indicated, Vodnik production seems to have stopped. Probably a few dozens (maybe a bit more) were produced in total.

    Vystrel production may still be going on a small scale. Probably a few dozens were made for the army, I believe some were exported to Kazakhstan. A few were seen in Lugansk region of Ukraine.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  cracker on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:45 pm

    ok, thanks.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TR1 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:54 pm

    Vodnik was rejected because the MOD did not buy into the whole modular kuzov concept.
    Vystrel is by all acounts shit.

    Tigr is alright. As a utility vehicle it is pretty good, but the question is how does it fair compared to Iveco in protection.
    The issue is with the whole Iveco debacle, is the domestic industry howled how they would make it all themselves, when it became apparent even the MOD was fed up with their incompetence.
    After the Iveco deal was canned, the Tigr was supposed to be modernized into the 6A variant with improved and up to date mine/IED protection and higher level of ballistic protection than the basic GOST 5 Tigr.

    And here we are in 2015, and the Tigr 6A still has not passed trials, rumor is (quoting Makrushin here, twower blog owner) they can't make it meet the required performance level, and it is questionable if they will be able to at all while maintaining vehicle mobility performance.


    So there you have it.
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    flamming_python
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:20 pm

    Why not go with the Vol to replace the baseline Tigrs and Ivecos?
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    sepheronx
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:34 pm

    Apparently Ivecos were garbage in mobility, including muddy terrain. Tigr was supposed to be replaced by Volk which has better armor and similar mobility but heard nothing.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri May 01, 2015 12:03 pm

    the problem with all these new fangled "humvee types" is that they are too wide / heavy to go into many places that the UAZ-469 could navigate effortlessly.

    Iraqis were gifted 10,000+ HUMVEES by the americans... yet they went and bought hundreds of new build UAZ-469s which are operated by recon units as well as by battalion commanders!
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 01, 2015 8:38 pm

    Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  rtech on Fri May 01, 2015 9:22 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:the problem with all these new fangled "humvee types" is that they are too wide / heavy to go into many places that the UAZ-469 could navigate effortlessly.

    Iraqis were gifted 10,000+ HUMVEES by the americans... yet they went and bought hundreds of new build UAZ-469s which are operated by recon units as well as by battalion commanders!

    Our Army wasnt happy with UAZ in Iraq they complained about lack of air conditioning and "adaptation to desert condition" i suspect sand and dust clogging the air filter. Can you fill us in on that?
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    TheArmenian
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat May 02, 2015 1:54 am

    TR1 wrote:Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.

    Agreed. Uazik and Tigr are in completely different weight categories.

    BTW, any news on the Skorpion in the tests?
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Sat May 02, 2015 2:18 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.

    Agreed. Uazik and Tigr are in completely different weight categories.

    BTW, any news on the Skorpion in the tests?

    Tests for the Skorpion just finished. Manufacturer awaiting orders on 3 different prototypes.

    It appears like there will be Skorpions for utilities, Tigrs for specialized and Volks for transport.
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 02, 2015 12:50 pm

    The issue with the Humvee was that the first models were very heavy yet they seemed to have drive trains and suspension designed for a lighter vehicle.

    When they first got them they were treated like light armoured vehicles... ie BRDM-2s.

    they were not even small arms proof however which led to problems and an increase in armour which made them even heavier.

    The Vodnik had no chance with the Russian Army as it was not amphibious... for a Strategic Missile forces guard vehicle it is fine.


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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 1:54 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Apparently Ivecos were garbage in mobility, including muddy terrain. Tigr was supposed to be replaced by Volk which has better armor and similar mobility but heard nothing.

    Ivecos could be transfered for example to the MVD VV; where mobility is less important but mine/IED protection is more critical.

    Or they could be perhaps gifted to Belarus or Armenia; they don't have any mine-protected vehicles at all AFAIK.

    I really don't see the advantage of keeping them around in the army; it only complicates logistics.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 2:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 1:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Vodnik had no chance with the Russian Army as it was not amphibious... for a Strategic Missile forces guard vehicle it is fine.

    As far as I recall it technically is; albeit it has a low speed while floating (no pump-jets; only wheels) and it can only exit water at low elevations and shallow angles; which criples its amphibious capabilities for most practical purposes.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sun May 03, 2015 1:08 am

    rtech wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:the problem with all these new fangled "humvee types" is that they are too wide / heavy to go into many places that the UAZ-469 could navigate effortlessly.

    Iraqis were gifted 10,000+ HUMVEES by the americans... yet they went and bought hundreds of new build UAZ-469s which are operated by recon units as well as by battalion commanders!

    Our Army wasnt happy with UAZ in Iraq they complained about lack of air conditioning and "adaptation to desert condition" i suspect sand and dust clogging the air filter. Can you fill us in on that?

    They seem fine in Iraq. Certainly better than Humvee but not as good as the various commercial pickups they use as gun trucks.


    The scorpion 2m seems to have the same issue as others compared to UAZ. It is 2.1 m wide. Not as bad as humvee or tigr... But still pretty wide and heavy. They need to make a truly modern day Willis jeep / uaz469 not these bloated monstrosities. I'd imagine even in Russia there will be many many places inaccessible by these vehicles that a UAZ can stroll through with ease. I remember in southern iraq some units would leave their humvee at depot and make their patrols in tuctuc (or a UAZ if they had one... But the UAZ are rare)... Simply for driving on canal levees.  Narrow village roads and alleys. In palm groves and getting up and down the small irrigation channels everywhere.

    Sure in open desert or a wide road the wide vehicles are superior. But the military always to into difficult areas as part of their job and they really do need a narrow vehicle. The iranian little safeer jeep also is quite nifty for that role IMHO. Russian army needs a true replacement for UAZ IMHO a scorpion 1 or 2 which keeps the external dimensions of the UAZ but updating the mechanicals for more modern engine and transmission would fit the bill. Maybe even an electric / hybrid option that would allow the driver to use "electric drive" when going towards where he wants to reduce noise... Jeep is making such a hybrid with a 60km electric range (plus petrol engine for the remainder)
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 03, 2015 8:46 am

    Something like this maybe...it can carry 6 passengers, goes just about anywhere and looks pretty small....there's a 6 wheelled version as well

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2015 12:13 pm

    As far as I recall it technically is; albeit it has a low speed while floating (no pump-jets; only wheels) and it can only exit water at low elevations and shallow angles; which criples its amphibious capabilities for most practical purposes.

    I believe the advertising material stated that it had a water displacing hull... which basically meant it was water tight for fording but did not float in all (most) configurations.

    For light vehicles there is Ansyr



    and Skorpion light tactical:



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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sun May 03, 2015 2:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:I believe the advertising material stated that it had a water displacing hull... which basically meant it was water tight for fording but did not float in all (most) configurations.

    That it does, but it's also amphibious




    AFAIK while it ordinarily uses its wheels for water traversal, a waterjet can optionally be mounted too.
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 10, 2015 1:55 am

    The Chechen OMON has begun 2 month trials of the Scorpion light armoured vehicle



    If all goes well, the vehicle will be ordered by the Ministry of Interior. Serial production could begin in 2016

    The "Scorpion" weighs 5 tons and can carry up to 1.1 tons of cargo. The car is equipped with a diesel engine producing 166 hp - max speed - 130 km / h. Cruising range - 1000 km. Wheel formula - 4x4. The car is equipped with armor protection from small arms and Grade 6 Standard mine protection

    http://www.vpk-news.ru/news/25140



    .

    Armour protection test

    .

    Mine protection test (4kg of TNT)

    .
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:20 pm

    Army to order some of the new Skorpion vehicles for testing with the Spetsnaz and Reconnaissance units.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1436755.html

    https://defencerussia.wordpress.com/2015/08/18/corporation-zaschita-to-supply-the-defense-ministry-with-armored-vehicles-party-skorpion-lsha-2b/
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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:52 pm

    Russian Ministry of Defense continues to purchase armored vehicles "Lynx" (Iveco LMV)



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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:20 pm

    Clickbait material. You should read the article before....

    These are not new purchases but apparently the remainder of the previous contract.  Apparently the last batches to be made.  Instead of cancelling the contract, they just didnt end up purchasing more.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

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