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    Infantry Mobility Vehicles

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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat May 02, 2015 1:54 am

    TR1 wrote:Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.

    Agreed. Uazik and Tigr are in completely different weight categories.

    BTW, any news on the Skorpion in the tests?
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    franco

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Sat May 02, 2015 2:18 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Humvee is fundamentally an light vehicle, Tigr is basically a BTR-80 chopped in half for its suspension.

    So while I agree it is not a perfect Uazik replacement (especially for simple liason duties and such), it doesn't suffer from nearly the issues HUMVEE has with suspension overloading and such.

    For Uaz replacement I really like the Skorpion.

    Agreed. Uazik and Tigr are in completely different weight categories.

    BTW, any news on the Skorpion in the tests?

    Tests for the Skorpion just finished. Manufacturer awaiting orders on 3 different prototypes.

    It appears like there will be Skorpions for utilities, Tigrs for specialized and Volks for transport.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 02, 2015 12:50 pm

    The issue with the Humvee was that the first models were very heavy yet they seemed to have drive trains and suspension designed for a lighter vehicle.

    When they first got them they were treated like light armoured vehicles... ie BRDM-2s.

    they were not even small arms proof however which led to problems and an increase in armour which made them even heavier.

    The Vodnik had no chance with the Russian Army as it was not amphibious... for a Strategic Missile forces guard vehicle it is fine.


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 1:54 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Apparently Ivecos were garbage in mobility, including muddy terrain. Tigr was supposed to be replaced by Volk which has better armor and similar mobility but heard nothing.

    Ivecos could be transfered for example to the MVD VV; where mobility is less important but mine/IED protection is more critical.

    Or they could be perhaps gifted to Belarus or Armenia; they don't have any mine-protected vehicles at all AFAIK.

    I really don't see the advantage of keeping them around in the army; it only complicates logistics.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 2:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 02, 2015 1:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Vodnik had no chance with the Russian Army as it was not amphibious... for a Strategic Missile forces guard vehicle it is fine.

    As far as I recall it technically is; albeit it has a low speed while floating (no pump-jets; only wheels) and it can only exit water at low elevations and shallow angles; which criples its amphibious capabilities for most practical purposes.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sun May 03, 2015 1:08 am

    rtech wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:the problem with all these new fangled "humvee types" is that they are too wide / heavy to go into many places that the UAZ-469 could navigate effortlessly.

    Iraqis were gifted 10,000+ HUMVEES by the americans... yet they went and bought hundreds of new build UAZ-469s which are operated by recon units as well as by battalion commanders!

    Our Army wasnt happy with UAZ in Iraq they complained about lack of air conditioning and "adaptation to desert condition" i suspect sand and dust clogging the air filter. Can you fill us in on that?

    They seem fine in Iraq. Certainly better than Humvee but not as good as the various commercial pickups they use as gun trucks.


    The scorpion 2m seems to have the same issue as others compared to UAZ. It is 2.1 m wide. Not as bad as humvee or tigr... But still pretty wide and heavy. They need to make a truly modern day Willis jeep / uaz469 not these bloated monstrosities. I'd imagine even in Russia there will be many many places inaccessible by these vehicles that a UAZ can stroll through with ease. I remember in southern iraq some units would leave their humvee at depot and make their patrols in tuctuc (or a UAZ if they had one... But the UAZ are rare)... Simply for driving on canal levees.  Narrow village roads and alleys. In palm groves and getting up and down the small irrigation channels everywhere.

    Sure in open desert or a wide road the wide vehicles are superior. But the military always to into difficult areas as part of their job and they really do need a narrow vehicle. The iranian little safeer jeep also is quite nifty for that role IMHO. Russian army needs a true replacement for UAZ IMHO a scorpion 1 or 2 which keeps the external dimensions of the UAZ but updating the mechanicals for more modern engine and transmission would fit the bill. Maybe even an electric / hybrid option that would allow the driver to use "electric drive" when going towards where he wants to reduce noise... Jeep is making such a hybrid with a 60km electric range (plus petrol engine for the remainder)
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 03, 2015 8:46 am

    Something like this maybe...it can carry 6 passengers, goes just about anywhere and looks pretty small....there's a 6 wheelled version as well

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    GarryB

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2015 12:13 pm

    As far as I recall it technically is; albeit it has a low speed while floating (no pump-jets; only wheels) and it can only exit water at low elevations and shallow angles; which criples its amphibious capabilities for most practical purposes.

    I believe the advertising material stated that it had a water displacing hull... which basically meant it was water tight for fording but did not float in all (most) configurations.

    For light vehicles there is Ansyr



    and Skorpion light tactical:



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    flamming_python

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Sun May 03, 2015 2:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:I believe the advertising material stated that it had a water displacing hull... which basically meant it was water tight for fording but did not float in all (most) configurations.

    That it does, but it's also amphibious




    AFAIK while it ordinarily uses its wheels for water traversal, a waterjet can optionally be mounted too.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 10, 2015 1:55 am

    The Chechen OMON has begun 2 month trials of the Scorpion light armoured vehicle



    If all goes well, the vehicle will be ordered by the Ministry of Interior. Serial production could begin in 2016

    The "Scorpion" weighs 5 tons and can carry up to 1.1 tons of cargo. The car is equipped with a diesel engine producing 166 hp - max speed - 130 km / h. Cruising range - 1000 km. Wheel formula - 4x4. The car is equipped with armor protection from small arms and Grade 6 Standard mine protection

    http://www.vpk-news.ru/news/25140



    .

    Armour protection test

    .

    Mine protection test (4kg of TNT)

    .
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    franco

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:20 pm

    Army to order some of the new Skorpion vehicles for testing with the Spetsnaz and Reconnaissance units.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1436755.html

    https://defencerussia.wordpress.com/2015/08/18/corporation-zaschita-to-supply-the-defense-ministry-with-armored-vehicles-party-skorpion-lsha-2b/
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    George1

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:52 pm

    Russian Ministry of Defense continues to purchase armored vehicles "Lynx" (Iveco LMV)



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    sepheronx

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:20 pm

    Clickbait material. You should read the article before....

    These are not new purchases but apparently the remainder of the previous contract.  Apparently the last batches to be made.  Instead of cancelling the contract, they just didnt end up purchasing more.
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    George1

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:33 am

    Russia continues to buy Iveco LMV armored cars from Italy

    Despite sanctions Russia continues to buy 4WD tactical Italian-made Iveco LMVs (Light Multirole Vehicle). They are currently being used in the conflict in Syria. Why is the West continuing to sell Russia vehicles that do not feature dual capabilities, but are instead exclusively used for military purposes? RBTH decided to investigate.

    There are many photographs on the internet showing Russian soldiers in Syria next to an Iveco LMV. The Italian armored car can be seen on the runway at Khmeimim Air Base, among military convoys on Syria's roads and even as part of the escort for Russia's S-400 anti-aircraft weapon systems. Soldiers from the Syrian armed forces also like having their photos taken in front of it.

    The adventures of Italian vehicles in Russia

    The Iveco LMV, along with its adopted name Lince (Lynx, 'Rys'), have acquired a very mixed reputation in Russia and are closely associated with the unpopular former Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov. After being dismissed, Serdyukov was implicated in a corruption scheme and came to be criticized by the military for his poorly conceived and radical reforms, as well as his “Westernization” drive in military equipment procurement. As a result of his actions, the Russian armed forces possess Israeli drones and Italian armored cars; the former minister of defense is also responsible for the infamous contracts to buy Mistral helicopter carriers from France. The Italians, as has recently been shown, are seemingly more consistent in their foreign policy than the French. The Iveco supply contract, which initially appeared to be highly problematic, ultimately outlived all other procurement initiatives from Serdyukov’s tenure.

    The story continues


    The sale of the Iveco LMV armored cars were not hindered by Western sanctions, which prohibited the supply of not only Russian military equipment, but also dual-use technologies. This is because the contract for the sale of these vehicles was signed before the introduction of the sanctions, therefore they are not covered by them.

    The vehicles are being purchased by a company called Garnizon, which was previously known as Oboronservis, but changed its name following the corruption scandal associated with the dismissal of Serdyukov. According to the company's annual report for last year, 81 Lynx assembly kits were imported into Russia in 2014 and another 94 were due to be delivered in 2015.

    In 2015, according to tender documents published on electronic platforms, Russia's defense forces should receive 356 LMVs between mid-2015 and mid-2016.

    All of the assembled vehicles go to one of the Ministry of Defense's reserve pools, from where some of the vehicles apparently have ended up in Syria. Their unsuitability there for washed-out or snow-covered roads is less of a factor, but their advantages – such as offering good protection for crews against roadside land mines – are very much in demand.

    http://rbth.com/defence/2016/01/25/russia-continues-to-buy-iveco-lmv-armored-cars-from-italy_562027


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    Militarov

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Militarov on Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:51 am

    George1 wrote:Russia continues to buy Iveco LMV armored cars from Italy

    Despite sanctions Russia continues to buy 4WD tactical Italian-made Iveco LMVs (Light Multirole Vehicle). They are currently being used in the conflict in Syria. Why is the West continuing to sell Russia vehicles that do not feature dual capabilities, but are instead exclusively used for military purposes? RBTH decided to investigate.

    There are many photographs on the internet showing Russian soldiers in Syria next to an Iveco LMV. The Italian armored car can be seen on the runway at Khmeimim Air Base, among military convoys on Syria's roads and even as part of the escort for Russia's S-400 anti-aircraft weapon systems. Soldiers from the Syrian armed forces also like having their photos taken in front of it.

    The adventures of Italian vehicles in Russia

    The Iveco LMV, along with its adopted name Lince (Lynx, 'Rys'), have acquired a very mixed reputation in Russia and are closely associated with the unpopular former Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov. After being dismissed, Serdyukov was implicated in a corruption scheme and came to be criticized by the military for his poorly conceived and radical reforms, as well as his “Westernization” drive in military equipment procurement. As a result of his actions, the Russian armed forces possess Israeli drones and Italian armored cars; the former minister of defense is also responsible for the infamous contracts to buy Mistral helicopter carriers from France. The Italians, as has recently been shown, are seemingly more consistent in their foreign policy than the French. The Iveco supply contract, which initially appeared to be highly problematic, ultimately outlived all other procurement initiatives from Serdyukov’s tenure.

    The story continues


    The sale of the Iveco LMV armored cars were not hindered by Western sanctions, which prohibited the supply of not only Russian military equipment, but also dual-use technologies. This is because the contract for the sale of these vehicles was signed before the introduction of the sanctions, therefore they are not covered by them.

    The vehicles are being purchased by a company called Garnizon, which was previously known as Oboronservis, but changed its name following the corruption scandal associated with the dismissal of Serdyukov. According to the company's annual report for last year, 81 Lynx assembly kits were imported into Russia in 2014 and another 94 were due to be delivered in 2015.

    In 2015, according to tender documents published on electronic platforms, Russia's defense forces should receive 356 LMVs between mid-2015 and mid-2016.

    All of the assembled vehicles go to one of the Ministry of Defense's reserve pools, from where some of the vehicles apparently have ended up in Syria. Their unsuitability there for washed-out or snow-covered roads is less of a factor, but their advantages – such as offering good protection for crews against roadside land mines – are very much in demand.

    http://rbth.com/defence/2016/01/25/russia-continues-to-buy-iveco-lmv-armored-cars-from-italy_562027

    Wait... havent these deliveries being halted when Tigr entered mass production and original contract for 350+ Ivecos was completed in mid 2014. Russians even gave away some of them to Syrians which looks like they are trying to get rid of them. This article does not make much sense to me to be honest.

    "Oleg Bochkarev, deputy chairman of the Russian Military-Industrial Commission, told the news agency that Moscow does not plan more output of the Italian-licensed light multipurpose vehicles for the Ministry of Defence. "We have declined further production of these vehicles, and under current conditions this would generally be, I think, impossible," he said." - 12 November 2014

    "In 2015, according to tender documents published on electronic platforms, Russia's defense forces should receive 356 LMVs between mid-2015 and mid-2016." - id like to see this document if someone spots it share with us.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:49 am

    Either way it does not hurt to have a reserve of vehicles with such capabilities for use in places where their problems are minimised.

    They would be rather useful in places like Syria, and indeed Iraq.

    Another option would be to sell any remaining vehicles to Iran... I am sure they could use them too... but if the Syrians find them useful then it makes sense to send as many as needed there... there is no point in splitting them up into small batches as that will make spares support more complicated...

    They weren't bad vehicles and likely were very useful as an example to Russian vehicle developers... even if there are ideas they can't use it is useful to see different solutions to problems and be able to test how they perform.


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    higurashihougi

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:56 am

    May I ask is the price [that Russia paid] of these LM equal to their capability ?

    Or this contract is similar to Mistral, that Russia bought overpriced Mistral to compensate for France's lost to Soyuz in Gallileo project ?
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:09 am

    higurashihougi wrote:May I ask is the price [that Russia paid] of these LM equal to their capability ?

    Or this contract is similar to Mistral, that Russia bought overpriced Mistral to compensate for France's lost to Soyuz in Gallileo project ?

    Russia has paid the LMV's at their mid-range specs but with the "top protection" (about 225K Euros). The Infamous Ukrainian contract for 90 vehicles at top spec was at 41 million (about 450K/Vehicle).

    In comparison, the nearest "competitor" of the LMV, MATV mod2 costs upwards 700K US (Saudi contract). So basically the price (IMO) is very good.

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    magnumcromagnon

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    ATV / Trecol-39294D in the Alps, besides the 'Baywatch™' inspired music, a good video overall:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:03 am

    ATV / Trecol-39294D in the Alps, besides the 'Baywatch™' inspired music, a good video overall:

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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:21 pm

    Now that's what i call Arctic camo. Smile

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    George1

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:54 pm

    The new Russian «Falcatus» armored car spotted during an operation in Dagestan. The new armored futuristic-looking personnel carrier designed for the country’s special forces.



    http://defence-blog.com/news/falcatus-armored-car-spotted-during-an-operation-in-south-russias-dagestan.html


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    George1

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Tue May 03, 2016 11:09 pm

    Armored Iveco LMV ("Lynx") in the 22th Special Purpose Brigade

    Τoday [3 May 2016] in Rostov-on-Don Parade rehearsal on occasion of Victory Day was first demonstrated armored vehicles "Lynx" [Iveco LMV]. These armored cars are in service with 22-th Guards special purpose brigade stationed near Rostov-on-Don.





    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1882976.html


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    sepheronx

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 04, 2016 12:24 am

    I dunno why they bother to keep that piece of shit. Just give it to Novorussian forces or Syrian forces and be done with it, and continue to make Tiger's. Another curse from the fifth columnists in Russia.
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Project Canada on Wed May 04, 2016 1:51 am

    what happened to the Volk? is it still under trials or was it cancelled?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Militarov on Wed May 04, 2016 7:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I dunno why they bother to keep that piece of shit.  Just give it to Novorussian forces or Syrian forces and be done with it, and continue to make Tiger's.  Another curse from the fifth columnists in Russia.

    Well vehicles are new, they have certain amount of spares... i guess thats the logic behind keeping them. Also they might be waiting for bigger numbers of Tigr-M and later Volk to come. You are aware that Russians lack thousands of vehicles like this in their armed force still, despite fairly decent inflow during last 3-4 years.

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