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    Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:49 am

    Marine Assault vehicle, platform BMMP:



    A hybrid solution if I ever seen one, 100/30 combo armament like a BMP-3/BMD-4, side applique armor like a Kurganetz-25, wheels most likely derived from Boomerang-25, 1250 hp gas turbine engine derived from the T-80U family, plus a transformable body to reduce drag in the water. It'll have a 3-man crew, and hold 10 paratroopers, have top speeds on land up to 55 km/h, and 37 km/h in the water, landing ships will be able to deploy soldiers 40-60 km's away from coasts:

    platform BMMP
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:24 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Marine Assault vehicle, platform BMMP:

    It'll have a 3-man crew, and hold 10 paratroopers, have top speeds on land up to 55 km/h, and 37 km/h in the water, landing ships will be able to deploy soldiers 40-60 km's away from coasts:


    not bad, I wonder why wheeled platform - to easier achieve high speed  in water?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:18 am

    Wheeled vehicles are cheaper to operate and to buy than vehicles with tracks, and while tracked vehicles can operate over more varied terrain wheeled vehicles can be quite comparable and offer much better mine resistance in the sense that a small mine that destroys one wheel will not immobilise the vehicle yet that same mine would sever a track and fully immobilise a tracked vehicle.

    If you are talking about two vehicles in the same weight class (25 tons), where one is tracked and one is wheeled then the wheeled vehicle will have less internal capacity because the wheel arches take up more internal space, but the greater mobility potential on roads and much lower operating costs and higher road speeds make wheeled vehicles very attractive... assuming protection and firepower are similar it is cheaper and easier to go for the wheeled vehicle.

    In the past the choice has been between the BTR and the BMP but in that case the BTR has rather less armour and rather less fire power, yet the navy still chose the BTR often because of reduced costs and acceptable mobility.

    I remember a US expert given the chance to drive around a BTR-60 and he described it as being the ultimate RV (recreation vehicle).

    8 wheel drive plus the ability to change the tire pressure to improve traction on soft ground make it a very capable off roader, but there are conditions where even it will get stuck... but then even tracked vehicles get stuck from time to time...
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    Militarov

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    Marine Assault vehicle, platform BMMP:

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:56 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Marine Assault vehicle, platform BMMP:



    A hybrid solution if I ever seen one, 100/30 combo armament like a BMP-3/BMD-4, side applique armor like a Kurganetz-25, wheels most likely derived from Boomerang-25, 1250 hp gas turbine engine derived from the T-80U family, plus a transformable body to reduce drag in the water. It'll have a 3-man crew, and hold 10 paratroopers, have top speeds on land up to 55 km/h, and 37 km/h in the water, landing ships will be able to deploy soldiers 40-60 km's away from coasts:

    platform BMMP

    "1250 hp gas turbine engine derived from the T-80U family" - bad idea.
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    George1

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:46 am

    so this is a proposed BMP-3 with wheels for Marines? I dont like that idea.
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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:49 pm


    Saw this over a year ago and forgot all about it until magnumcromagnon posted that pic.

    You guys have no idea what a pain in the ass tracking this thing down was!!!    angry  cry

    Dec 2014:


    http://twower.livejournal.com/1530141.html
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:12 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Marine Assault vehicle, platform BMMP:



    A hybrid solution if I ever seen one, 100/30 combo armament like a BMP-3/BMD-4, side applique armor like a Kurganetz-25, wheels most likely derived from Boomerang-25, 1250 hp gas turbine engine derived from the T-80U family, plus a transformable body to reduce drag in the water. It'll have a 3-man crew, and hold 10 paratroopers, have top speeds on land up to 55 km/h, and 37 km/h in the water, landing ships will be able to deploy soldiers 40-60 km's away from coasts:

    platform BMMP

    "1250 hp gas turbine engine derived from the T-80U family" - bad idea.

    Normally I would agree with you however considering how it's set to be apart of the naval assets, it's likely apart of the naval logistics chain with the possibility of sharing parts and spares in a military branch where gas turbines are more prevalent.

    So ultimately my opinion on the use of gas turbines within ground vehicles:

    a) For use within vehicles used only for ground forces (such as the T-80U) it's a terrible idea.

    b) For use within the Naval Infantry, with the potential to share logistics with gas turbines in the naval logistics chain. It's an interesting idea, and if it proves to be the case then it could potentially be a great idea (if done correctly).
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    Militarov

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  Militarov on Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:54 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Marine Assault vehicle, platform BMMP:



    A hybrid solution if I ever seen one, 100/30 combo armament like a BMP-3/BMD-4, side applique armor like a Kurganetz-25, wheels most likely derived from Boomerang-25, 1250 hp gas turbine engine derived from the T-80U family, plus a transformable body to reduce drag in the water. It'll have a 3-man crew, and hold 10 paratroopers, have top speeds on land up to 55 km/h, and 37 km/h in the water, landing ships will be able to deploy soldiers 40-60 km's away from coasts:

    platform BMMP

    "1250 hp gas turbine engine derived from the T-80U family" - bad idea.

    Normally I would agree with you however considering how it's set to be apart of the naval assets, it's likely apart of the naval logistics chain with the possibility of sharing parts and spares in a military branch where gas turbines are more prevalent.

    So ultimately my opinion on the use of gas turbines within ground vehicles:

    a) For use within vehicles used only for ground forces (such as the T-80U) it's a terrible idea.

    b) For use within the Naval Infantry, with the potential to share logistics with gas turbines in the naval logistics chain. It's an interesting idea, and if it proves to be the case then it could potentially be a great idea (if done correctly).

    Turbine engines in general are horrible idea for any "ground" vehicle. Even if operated only by navy, that means that you will have to supply bunch of spares only to the navy...while you will supply everyone else with diesels and spares... Why would you do that, there is nothing in terms of performance that would justify that. Navy also does not operate so small gas turbines to justify it that way, which makes them just a burden on the logistics.

    Our P40 radar turbines were such pain in the ass...
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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:58 pm

    T-80's performed horribly with gas turbines in really hard terrain they performed like 80km and already dried up half the tank. Gas turbines are useless in that regard and shouldn't go on anything that needs to be powered by shaft turbine for ground use.
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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:12 am

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    Marine Assault vehicle, platform BMMP

    Post  x_54_u43 on Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:32 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    Deja Vu
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    George1

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:10 am

    It is planned to create a Marine Corps combat vehicle (ΒMMP)

    As Sergey Mosienko, reported on his website in 2018-2025, planned for adoption in Russia, it is planned to develop a family of machines based on the Navy infantry fighting vehicle (BMMF) of the Russian Navy. The BMPP is designed for delivery by sea of ​​the Marine Corps division to the meteorological unit of the assigned combat mission, destruction of armored vehicles and manpower of the enemy, support by landing fire at all stages of the combat mission.

    The ΒMMP chassis should be unified and ensure the creation of anti-tank and anti-aircraft missile systems, self-propelled guns and mortars, command and staff, combat reconnaissance vehicles (our topic), repair and evacuation, engineering and ambulances on its base.

    One of the determining factors for the emergence of a promising combat vehicle of the Marine Corps is the emergence of a new theater of military operations: the Republic of Crimea and the coast of the Krasnodar Territory.
    Marine infantry should have the strength and means, which provide not only delivery, but also support by landing fire.

    Note bmpd. As Albert Bakov, First Vice President and First Deputy General Director of LLC "Corporate Management Company" Concern "Tractor Plants" reported in his interview to the magazine "Export of Arms" in late 2015, the development of military equipment for the Marine Corps of the Russian Navy will be carried out by the Design Bureau LLC Volgograd machine-building company Volgograd Tractor Plant (VMK VGTZ). He noted that the tactical and technical requirements of the Marine Corps are specific and differ greatly from the characteristics developed by the Kurgan designers of the machines.

    According to him, "BMP, like BMD-4M, can force water obstacles without training and land on the seacoast from landing ships, which is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the Marines." The Marines want to get a car that must walk on the water, as a hydrofoil boat, while maintaining the BMP's characteristics for combat operations on the shore. "

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2527550.html

    so it is planned a unified platform for naval infantry vehicles
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    GarryB

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:35 am

    Seems to be a Boomerang for the navy but why the requirement for so much HP?

    The standard engine for the Kurganets and Boomerang is in the 500+HP range which should be plenty for 25 ton class vehicles most of the time... unless it is also a hovercraft...
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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  George1 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:46 am

    Baumanka" creates a planing BMP for an over-landing
    25 April 2017 at 22:12 Theme: Industry

    Scientific and Production Center "Special Engineering" (SPC SM) MSTU. Since 2013, Baumanka has been building a combat vehicle for the Marine Corps (BMMP). For some time the work was carried out within the framework of the state defense order, but the customer stopped them. Now the development of a gliding machine for over-landing is proceeding proactively, Chief Designer Sergey Popov told the Central Naval Portal.

    According to Sergei Popov, the development of a special marine landing vehicle was conducted by Baumanka in the 1980s. Later, various variants of the BMMP were studied-wheeled, tracked, four-tracked and even auger-rotor. One of the options is a planing machine with gas turbine engine GTD-1250, created for the T-80 tank.

    In 2013, the command of coastal troops of the Russian Navy initiated the development of infantry infantry fighting vehicles. Corresponding research was included in the state defense order for 2013. Competition for the "Research on the creation of a prospective combat vehicle for Marine Corps units of the Navy (BMMP)" won by the MSTU Baumanka. "But soon after the state contract was concluded, the work on this research work was stopped by the customer," says Sergei Popov, without explaining the reasons for the stop. Development, however, continued in an initiative, " the chief designer added.

    One of the difficulties encountered by the developers was the amphibiousness of the BMP. On the water the machine should become a speedboat, which can quickly overcome the distance necessary for over-landing, and withstand a wave height of at least 1.5 meters. On land, (BMMP) is a full-fledged conveyor for infantry. At least the first part of the task "Baumanka" worked: in December 2014 LLC "Center for Technical Cooperation" at the Baumanka Moscow State Technical University filed an application for a patent for a seafaring high-speed amphibian with a variable gliding surface.The patent was published in March 2016, one of its authors - Sergei Popov.

    The machine is equipped with two side flaps along the sides of the hull, at the ends of which there are controlled hydrodynamic surfaces. Shields and surfaces can change their position, reducing the hydrodynamic resistance and controlling the difference and roll. In this way, the BMMP goes to the glide path at a lower power requirement.

    In 2015, the International Naval Show showed a remote-controlled scale model of the machine, which corresponds to one of the early variants of the technical solution for gliding BMP. On the sides of the layout you can see the flaps mentioned in the patent. As the source in the Navy told the Central Naval Portal, the commander of coastal troops Lieutenant-General Alexander Kolpachenko "is well-versed in the project and earlier contributed to its development." In the photo with IMMS-2015, the chief designer of the SPC SM Sergei Popov tells Lieutenant-General Kolpachenko about the features of the TMMF.

    It is not yet known what kind of amphibious ship the Marines will use. Admiral Igor Khmelnov (in 1995-1996, commander of the Pacific Fleet) told the correspondent of the Central Military Medical Academy that the large amphibious ships that the fleet has today are not very suitable for over-landing. "This is an American concept that was created back in the 1970s," he added. By 2015, the USA developed the EFV (Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle) - a 34-ton caterpillar gliding armored personnel carrier. Its speed on the water - up to 46 km / h, for gliding the machine uses a similar to the BMMP.

    http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B02/
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    George1

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:34 am

    TTX of the prospective combat vehicle of the Marine Corps (ΒMMP)

    The wheeled prospective combat vehicle of the Marine Corps (ΒMMP), created under the code "Platform of the IMMP", will surpass the Chinese VN18, which is similar in purpose, which has been discussed so much in recent times.

    It was planned that the Russian amphibian will receive a gas turbine engine with a capacity of 1,250 hp, which has already proved itself well on T-80U tanks. As a result, a machine weighing 30.7 tons will be able to develop a maximum speed of about 60 km / h by land. When driving on water with sea waves up to 2 points and a wave 75 cm high, it will be able to move at a speed of at least 37 km / h.

    The machine will have a water jet propulsion unit and a special transformable body to reduce hydrodynamic drag.

    The combat compartment of the ΒMMP is similar to that of the BMP-3. Armament: 100-mm cannon-launcher 2A70, it is capable of using not only conventional projectiles, but also launching guided long-range missiles. With her docked small-caliber automatic 30-mm cannon 2A72 and machine gun caliber 7.62 mm. Plus two more machine guns of caliber 7,62 mm in front of the case.

    On board there can be a crew of 3 people and up to 10 paratroopers.

    The ΒMMP will have the opportunity to leave the landing ships at a distance of 40-60 km from the coast and at maximum speed to go to the landing areas.

    https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2125717.html
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    Perspective Russian Marines tracked platform - Proposals of UVZ

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 12:19 pm

    Info about new a proposal for Russian perspective tracked platform Marines popped up. Almost all in Russian. Later (when I go more time Smile I'll try to translate.
    Interesting is that the only member of new family is a floating tank based on Kurganets!














    plenty more here:

    https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/798842.html

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3182852.html
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    George1

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  George1 on Thu May 03, 2018 1:13 pm

    Ι will translate the descriptions of images from bmpd

    It seems a reduced analog of the American AAAV



    Installation of ATGM, apparently "Bulat"



    The new 57 mm BK




    The machine of fire support on the basis of "Kurganets"
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    George1

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  George1 on Thu May 03, 2018 1:48 pm

    The whole presentantion:




    A comparison of various amphibious AFVs with BMMP





    Family of modular vehicles




    Basic Technical characteristics of BMMP




    General Technical Solutions




    Variants of BMMP with Various Battle modules




    Khinzal 57mm remote battle module




    Unievrsality of combat application




    Protections of BMMP

    The Arena-M active defense complex provides protection against ATGMs and anti-tank cumulative grenades



    Corrosion protection of BMMP from impacts of harmful environmental factors


    Case Material:
    - armored aluminum alloy with a plating (oxidized) layer;
    on the body and chassis components, the layer is applied with a corrosion-resistant (stainless) steel with the possibility of repairing damaged areas in the military repair-recovery organs.
    Electrical equipment and rubber-technical products are made in marine design.
    The service life is not less than 10 years with the restoration during major overhaul.
    Applied materials, technologies and components provide operation of machines from - 60 to +50 0С.


    Digital management system of BMMP



    The СУО БМ МП in all time and all-year mode provides:
    detection of the following targets at a distance of at least:
    - UAVs, cruise missiles and guided aerial bombs 6 km
    - aircraft 15 km
    - helicopters 10 km
    - BTWT samples, ATGM 5 km
    their automatic capture and tracking automation of the operation of the mechanisms of the BMMP information interaction between the crew members and the command post


    Onboard Information Management System BIUS




    Program and technical complex BMMP

    provides:

    a) a significant reduction in the time for the fulfillment of tactical standards by the battalion commander:
    - data collection and mapping to the map - 18 times;
    - setting the combat mission to the subordinates - 10 times;
    - decision-making for combat and clearance on an electronic card - 1.6 times;
    - determination of own position and subordinate machines - 20 times;
    - issue target designation to the subordinate company commander - 4 times;
    b) receiving signals from the satellite navigation systems "GLONASS" and "NAVSTAR".


    Construction of the mechanism of change hull




    The order of transformation of the cabin




    GENERAL CONCLUSIONS

    - The conducted search works showed the advantages of the application caterpillar engine in the theaters of military operations of coastal troops of the Russian Navy.
    - Joint-stock company "Omsktransmash" together with NPC SM at the Moscow State Technical University developed the concept of a unified caterpillar platform and combat vehicle Marine Corps on its base, providing requirements for command of coastal troops of the Russian Navy.
    Joint-stock company "Omsktransmash" together with NPC SM at the Moscow State Technical University are ready to conduct OCD in accordance with 15. 203-2001 (working designdocumentation, prototypes, tests) in 2020-2022, after the completion of the research in 2019


    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3182852.html
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 4:04 pm

    George1 wrote:

    It seems a reduced analog of the American AAAV

    To me ti seems that Physics of Fluid Flow is the same for Russia and US alike Razz Razz Razz

    thus shape of vehicle cannot differ that much.  It looks that Russian focus not so much as transporter but more as fighting machine.  

    Not that strong engine as in US (1500 HP vs. 2600 HP) case but but still decent speed 37km/h ~10kts for 100km (46 km/h, 120 km) parameters are not that different. Only land autonomy is smaller than for US machine 300 vs 520 km.





    George1 wrote:
    - Joint-stock company "Omsktransmash" together with NPC SM at the Moscow State Technical University developed the concept of a unified caterpillar platform and combat vehicle

    This is translator error: there is logo and description of Uralvagonzavod (UVZ) . But Google translate sometimes looks like trolling Russian names Sad
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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu May 03, 2018 5:59 pm

    Looks very impressive, definitely reminds me of the AAAV/EFV, minus the stability and reliability issues that plagued the AAAV, because of the silly emphasis on speed.

    The weapon suites available are also very impressive to say nothing of the included Arena APS.
    ! wonder what size barrel that Light tank suite is gonna use?

    I think the Naval Infantry is definitely gonna be happy with this, finally replacing those PT-76s.

    Heck, i can even see the possibility to put Pantsirs on these things, but that's somewhat overkill, maybe Sosna-R, yea that makes more sense.

    UPDATE: Hold up, am i reading this right, this thing weighs 35 Tons??
    Isn't that a little much.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 6:54 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    ! wonder what size barrel that Light tank suite is gonna use?

    sould be easy choice: 125mm same Sprut. But tower! looks like unmanned one. Does it mean that Sprut or Boomerang prospectively get one too?


    Heck, i can even see the possibility to put Pantsirs on these things, but that's somewhat overkill, maybe Sosna-R, yea that makes more sense.
    There is no need to use Pantsir (20km ceiling, 40km range) for first line units. Sosna or improved Sosna (Bargulnik) is to have 10/5 or 14km range/9 height respectively. Is not only cheaper but also lighter. What in case of amphibious operations make sense). Electro-optical FCS makes it passive and non detectable by radars.  





    UPDATE: Hold up, am i reading this right, this thing weighs 35 Tons??
    Isn't that a little much.

    good enough to have 37km/h on water...with reasonable buoyancy.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu May 03, 2018 8:23 pm

    Lol since when you guys are comparing an OLD RUSSIAN project that Tula sold to the Chinese to something the US would only start searching in the early 2000.

    ZBD-2000/ZTD 05 Which was a ready to go project was based on Obyect 289C.
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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  Hole on Thu May 03, 2018 10:05 pm

    The AAAV program started at the beginning of the 90´s.

    Looks like the BMMP will have much in common wit the Kurganets.

    The turret is definately unmanned.

    The question is... why spend the money on the BMMP when you got the Kurganets and the 2S25M1 in the pipeline?
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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 11:06 pm

    Hole wrote:The AAAV program started at the beginning of the 90´s.

    Looks like the BMMP will have much in common wit the Kurganets.

    unlikely, armor protection is on level BPM-3M. Kruganets should be uparmoured.




    The question is... why spend the money on the BMMP when you got the Kurganets and the 2S25M1 in the pipeline?

    hmm let me guess - buoyancy? it has 100 km on water with 37km/h speed? I dont think light tank on Kurganets will be able to do more than standard 10km/h
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Marine Assault vehicle (platform BMMP)

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri May 04, 2018 2:38 pm

    Hole wrote:The AAAV program started at the beginning of the 90´s.

    Looks like the BMMP will have much in common wit the Kurganets.

    The turret is definately unmanned.

    The question is... why spend the money on the BMMP when you got the Kurganets and the 2S25M1 in the pipeline?

    No DRR was fixed in 1995, Concept tender, 1996. First SDD 2001. Otherwise Da Vinci also had floating carriages by the 15th century.

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