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    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:19 am

    Couple more pics from official Royal Navy https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2018/august/22/180822-hurworth-monitored-russian-frigate
    They brought a good camera this time Very Happy





    Also twice in the same month they laid off the bellicose 'zomg we stopped a Russkie invasion' stuff Shocked

    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:23 pm

    Talk of sale to India again https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BB%D1%8F%D0%9E%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%BC130/
    The Government of India intends in October to sign an agreement on the acquisition from Russia of four new frigates of Project 11356 for the country's Navy, there is a discussion of the latest details of the deal. On this Monday, September 17, reportsTASSwith reference to the newspaper The Economic Times .

    According to the publication, an agreement on the delivery of frigates will be signed in October during the summit with the participation of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The document in preparation implies the formula "2 + 2": two ships will be built at the shipyard in Indian Goa, and two more will be delivered from Russia.

    According to the sources, at the present time the latest details are being coordinated. The total cost of the project is estimated at $ 2.2 billion. India, perhaps, will pay for the acquisition under the "rupee-ruble" scheme, because US sanctions against Russia have complicated calculations in dollars, the newspaper said.
    Starting to sound more solid now but I still say Russia should complete the 6 for BSF.
    People at Balancer say there is minimal/0 progress on a domestic transmission box suitable for 11356 though & also seems Zorya is still sneakily working on building propulsion stuff presumably for India.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:37 pm

    Essen broke away from Syria to pay a visit to Messina in Sicily

    Apparently there were Imperial Russian ships there in 1908 when there was a big earthquake & they are celebrated there for their aid in the aftermath.

    Edit: wow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1908_Messina_earthquake
    Apparently Russian squadron was down the coast a bit but were first on the scene.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:14 pm

    hoom wrote:Essen broke away from Syria to pay a visit to Messina in Sicily.

    Might be some politics in the background...if Kremlin-financed Salvini wouldn't be prime minister I wouldn't expect Russian warhips in NATO land.

    marcellogo

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  marcellogo on Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:32 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    hoom wrote:Essen broke away from Syria to pay a visit to Messina in Sicily.

    Might be some politics in the background...if Kremlin-financed Salvini wouldn't be prime minister I wouldn't expect Russian warhips in NATO land.

    Don't be so cynical .
    Here in Italy heartquakes are a serious matter and the apocaliptical one in Messina is still well remembered despite more than a century has passed, memory of the fallen and of the ones that helped us in those dire moments is still well cherished.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:14 am

    Might be some politics in the background
    For sure, its very interesting I think that Russia has continued to make these sorts of 'business as usual' visits quietly highlighting historical ties/good actions as if there isn't a huge info-war against Russia going on.
    Here & there UK/US media catches on -> make a big spoiling fuss like the Russian ship visits to Spanish Ceuta but they have long since forgotten stuff like Russian aid to Messina.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:43 pm

    Makarov has arrived at Sevastopol
    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5635430

    Edit:or left Syria heading there.


    Last edited by hoom on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:41 am; edited 1 time in total

    Labrador

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Labrador on Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:53 pm

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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:44 am

    Here & there UK/US media catches on -> make a big spoiling fuss like the Russian ship visits to Spanish Ceuta but they have long since forgotten stuff like Russian aid to Messina.

    They didn't forget... they actively omit such details because it makes the visit more sinister without that reason for it to actually happen.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:59 pm

    Makarov arriving at Sevastopol





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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:52 pm

    No more Grigorovich ships for BS fleet. It seems to be a final decision.

    PTURBG

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PTURBG on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:29 pm

    This is absolutely disgusting. Russia needs new frigates. India doesnt and shouldnt get them because its friendly with the US.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:46 pm

    PTURBG wrote:This is absolutely disgusting. Russia needs new frigates. India doesnt and shouldnt get them because its friendly with the US.

    Your trolling is disgusting, you claim to be a pro-Russian Bulgarian but I have yet to see you say one positive thing about us.

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PTURBG on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:53 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PTURBG wrote:This is absolutely disgusting. Russia needs new frigates. India doesnt and shouldnt get them because its friendly with the US.

    Your trolling is disgusting, you claim to be a pro-Russian Bulgarian but I have yet to see you say one positive thing about us.  

    How is this trolling? I'm criticizing the decision, not the product. Meanwhile all your posts are about how Russia is hopelessly dumb, corrupt and unable to compete with the west. You consider the rafale's RCS superior to the Su-57's(LOL) and french cruise missiles superior to Russian ones. You claim that canards cannot be stealthy even tho this western propaganda statement has been refuted at least a dozen times here. How's this not trolling on your part?
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:57 pm

    PTURBG wrote:This is absolutely disgusting. Russia needs new frigates. India doesnt and shouldnt get them because its friendly with the US.

    I udner stand your wish to support Russia but firstof all you need to read news not only headlines. Text clearly says:

    The fate of the last ship of the series at the moment depends on the success in the production of domestic power plants, in particular gas turbine engines at NPO Saturn and gearboxes at PJSC Zvezda.


    Russia is not going to build them as long as cannot produce power plants. This has nothing to do with India. India from the other hand didnt buy any frigates yet. It would be great tho if they did.

    BTW Cruiser Moskva will be modernized. Oh well would be great to have radars, avionics and P-500 replaced by Onyx.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 pm

    PTURBG wrote:

    How is this trolling? I'm criticizing the decision, not the product. Meanwhile all your posts are about how Russia is hopelessly dumb, corrupt and unable to compete with the west. You consider the rafale's RCS superior to the Su-57's(LOL) and french cruise missiles superior to Russian ones. You claim that canards cannot be stealthy even tho this western propaganda statement has been refuted at least a dozen times here. How's this not trolling on your part?

    To suggest we should buy submarines from China or stop selling weapons to India... that is trolling. Making statements of fact is not.

    PTURBG

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PTURBG on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:36 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PTURBG wrote:This is absolutely disgusting. Russia needs new frigates. India doesnt and shouldnt get them because its friendly with the US.

    I udner stand your wish to support Russia but firstof all you need to read news not only headlines. Text clearly says:

    The fate of the last ship of the series at the moment depends on the success in the production of domestic power plants, in particular gas turbine engines at NPO Saturn and gearboxes at PJSC Zvezda.


    Russia is not going to build them as long as cannot produce power plants. This has  nothing to do with India. India from the other hand didnt buy any frigates yet. It would be great tho if they did.

    BTW Cruiser Moskva will be modernized. Oh well would be great to have radars, avionics and P-500 replaced by Onyx.

    But its inevitable that Saturn will produce powerplants for these frigates so any proposals to sell them to a 3rd party should be out of the question.


    To suggest we should buy submarines from China or stop selling weapons to India... that is trolling. Making statements of fact is not.

    I said AIPs, not submarines and I never said to stop exporting weapons to India, just not these frigates. Given that some people here want south korean and chinese shipyards to build Russian aircraft carriers, I have no idea why you suddenly consider my statement as trolling.


    Also I ask again: how is your claim that canards are unstealthy and that rafale is stealthier than the Su-57 not trolling on your part?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:38 pm

    PTURBG wrote:

    I said AIPs, not submarines and I never said to stop exporting weapons to India, just not these frigates. Given that some people here want south korean and chinese shipyards to build Russian aircraft carriers, I have no idea why you suddenly consider my statement as trolling.

    We don't have a shipyard that can build a super carrier hull so to outsource it is not out of the question and the people saying that have a long history of contributions to this forum. You don't and to suggest we buy Chinese AIP submarines or stop selling Talwar frigates when we build them ourselves is antithetical to the existence of the MIC. Even if you are talking about AIP modules from China the submarine would have to be redesigned around them which is just as absurd as buying the whole Chinese submarine. Selling SSKs is one of our primary exports, to cede that to China is out of the question. We don't export super carriers and I doubt we ever will.

    Also I ask again: how is your claim that canards are unstealthy and that rafale is stealthier than the Su-57 not trolling on your part?

    Canards are unstealthy... it is a statement of fact. The Rafale is 0.3m^2, the Su-57 is 0.5m^2... statement of fact from Dassault engineers and IAF officials respectively.

    How do you refer to a race as semitic goatherders and not call that trolling?

    You had a dozen posts at the start of this and I already found 3 questionable trolly statements. It is not looking good for you with a 25% troll ratio.

    If it isn't trolling your posts certainly aren't up to the level of discussion I want here. Either pick up the quality of your content or pack your bags.



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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PTURBG on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:06 pm

    We don't have a shipyard that can build a super carrier hull so to outsource it is not out of the question

    Ah yes, let geopolitically unreliable states who have never helped Russia against the US at the UN build the main striking arm of the Russian navy while possibly having access to sensitive design data for the inner mechanisms of those carriers.


    the people saying that have a long history of contributions to this forum.
    Irrelevant. Stupid ideas are stupid.  



    stop selling Talwar frigates

    I never said that. I'm against selling Grigoroviches which have a very different armament compared to talwars.


    Canards are unstealthy... it is a statement of fact.

    A "fact" only in your head that has been disproven.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1495p250-mikoyan-lmfs

    There are such things called "planiform alignment" and "composite materials" you know and canards arent magically exempt from this physical law.

    But oh wait. Your favorite dassault claims canards are stealthier than the Su-57. Do you not see your contradiction?

    The Rafale is 0.3m^2, the Su-57 is 0.5m^2... statement of fact from Dassault engineers and IAF officials respectively.

    So you're pushing Indian yellow press propaganda as facts here? Talk about maintaining a standard of quality.

    Besides, it has been stated 100 times here already that 0.5m^2 is the AVERAGE RCS VALUE while 0.3m^2 is FRONTAL CLEAN RCS. It amazes me how you still can't discern between the 2.




    How do you refer to a race as semitic goatherders and not call that trolling?
    1. Jews arent a race
    2. Jews were exactly Semitic goatherders according to every historian.


    if it isn't trolling your posts certainly aren't up to the level of discussion I want here. Either pick up the quality of your content or pack your bags.


    Says the person ignoring Vann7 text walls for 5 years already.

    Besides, 80% of your posts are baseless 1 liners saying either "Russia poor and corrupt, US invincible, rich and efficient", or "Russian stuff is inferior, Russia will never build X".

    So before accusing


    You pushed me offtopic, I'm leaving this discussion.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:13 pm

    PTURBG wrote:Says the person ignoring Vann7 text walls for 5 years already.

    How would you know about that when you joined two weeks ago? Previously banned user maybe... unshaven
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:24 pm

    PTURBG wrote:But its inevitable that Saturn will produce powerplants for these frigates so any proposals to sell them to a 3rd party should be out of the question.

    Im sure they will. But then on the contrary. To sell them even in larger numbers. Proven construction, adequate performance and longer series make them cheaper per unit.

    PTURBG

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PTURBG on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:24 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PTURBG wrote:Says the person ignoring Vann7 text walls for 5 years already.

    How would you know about that when you joined two weeks ago?  Previously banned user maybe... unshaven

    It doesnt take a lot of effort to see his old textwalls in the syria, ukraine and Russian politics/economy threads

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PTURBG on Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:37 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PTURBG wrote:But its inevitable that Saturn will produce powerplants for these frigates so any proposals to sell them to a 3rd party should be out of the question.

    Im sure they will. But then on the contrary. To sell them even in larger numbers. Proven construction, adequate performance and longer series make them cheaper per unit.

    Then build the ones for india from scratch
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:07 am

    PTURBG wrote:

    It doesnt take a lot of effort to see his old textwalls in the syria, ukraine and Russian politics/economy threads

    It actually takes quite a bit of effort to read through the thousands of posts going back 5 years. unshaven

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    Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  PTURBG on Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:33 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PTURBG wrote:

    It doesnt take a lot of effort to see his old textwalls in the syria, ukraine and Russian politics/economy threads

    It actually takes quite a bit of effort to read through the thousands of posts going back 5 years.  unshaven

    No, given that you can see join date infer from there, and given that I want to prove a point.
    Textwalls are also very easy to see while skimming through threads.
    You accused me of trolling. Now youre accusing me of being previously banned. Youre grasping at straws.

    Can mods remove this meaningless discussion?

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