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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    JohninMK

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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:21 am

    Changing of the ships on the Syrian Express by the look of it. Minsk has just passed through the Channel on its way north whilst Alexander Shabalin has just passed southbound. Bet there were some emotional scenes, much waving, when they passed each other off the English coast, one suspects that they may have been pretty close to each other at that moment  Very Happy

    The Minsk, probably never designed for months of continuous operation, seems to have coped, along with the rest of the class, very well with operating virtually without stop between the Russian ports on the Black Sea and Syria.

    The Alexander Shabalin looked as deep in the sea as any we have seen going through the Bosphorus so she is probably fully loaded with stuff. Good introduction to the real world! Just hope the Bay of Biscay was kind to them, its only a small ship.



    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3779657/Royal-Navy-warship-tracks-Russian-military-vessels-pass-British-waters.html

    EDIT

    Looks like the Daily Mail got this wrong. The number 110 seemed familiar so I checked on TurkishNavy.net and quess what, both 127 Minsk and 110 Alexander Shabalin are already on the Syrian Express.

    It is clearly 110 in their photo and since she passed southbound through the Bosphorus on 30/8 she could probably not be southbound in the North Sea 10 days later.

    It looks like 127 in the other photo and Minsk passed southbound through the Bosphorus on the 12/8 so could perhaps have gone to the Baltic or Northern Fleet and back south in the North for the 9/9 but there was nothing in the papers about her passing through the Channel.

    Maybe they just got them the wrong way round. If they did, what was so important for one of these ships to do this huge round trip for that could not have gone on a plane? Especially if 127 is so loaded northbound. They are both Baltic Fleet ships.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:38 am

    lada class failed. even russians admited that. that much sensors need lot of power and manpower, you jsut cant copy from nuclear to conventional submarine and expect a smooth sailing ... they tested stirling AIP on submerged platforms - barges you dont need to build expencive sub for that , lol

    Idiot.

    They should have simply asked you because you obviously always knew it would never work.

    Perhaps if you offered your services to them they could save trillions because they would never need full scale tests of everything, because obviously a computer model, a test stand on a barge and your valuable input would tell them instantly what will work and what will not.

    Back in the real world the Kalina subs are going to be what the Lada subs were not and that is mainly because what they learned from full sized production of the first lada boat and its testing and the adaptations made to the two further Lada subs that had been started.

    If it was just about testing an AIP system an existing sub could easily have been adapted to the purpose, but there were a range of new technologies and systems that had to work together for everything to work properly so they had to test full scale.

    In the real world you learn just as much from things that don't work as you do from things that do... for you to call it a failure is why I call you an idiot.

    The definition of a failure is someone who never tries because they fear to fail.

    If you never risk you never fail but you really don't succeed at anything either... most millionaires and billionaires have lost everything at some stage in their lives...

    in the end they went for fuell cell but high powered variant they want 0,4 MW ,while german versions have 0,2 MW.

    The fuel cell they were testing was one using diesel as the source of energy, I don't know why you mention stirling engines, AFAIK they have tested those in subs decades ago and rejected them... they are noisy.

    BTW looking up AIP in wiki I found this paragraph:

    Because liquid oxygen cannot be stored indefinitely, these boats could not operate far from a base. It was dangerous; at least seven submarines suffered explosions, and one of these, M-256, sank following an explosion and fire. They were sometimes nicknamed cigarette lighters. The last submarine using this technology was scrapped in the early 1970s.

    But of course storing O2 is safe... right.



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    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:38 pm

    Rmf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    I see a 4 year cycle from start of construction to commissioning. Yeah, another epic Russian failure.

    AFAIK the two remaining Lada class subs will be used to test the AIP system and new batteries they have developed... you can use computer models and scale models all you like but to test properly you need full scale models to test... which is what the three Lada vessels are... the results will be applied to the kalina design no doubt.

    lada class failed. even russians admited that. that much sensors need lot of power and manpower, you jsut cant copy from nuclear to conventional submarine and expect a smooth sailing ... they tested stirling AIP on submerged platforms - barges  you dont need to build expencive sub for that , lol Laughing
    in the end they went for fuell cell but high powered variant they want 0,4 MW  ,while german versions have 0,2 MW.

    It is not a problem with the Lada class, rather a problem with the fuel cell submarines.

    The German AIP submarines has smilar issues, because the part load destroy prematurely the fuel cells modules, so they need to cut the submarine in every year to keep on level the performance.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:20 pm

    Haven't heard much about Sigma in a while, has there been any new developments?
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Russia's objectives in the South China Sea

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:13 pm

    “Willingly or unwillingly Russia supports China's claim to disputed islands in the South China Sea,” says military expert Viktor Litovkin. “The construction of Chinese military infrastructure will provide Russia with protection in the area against U.S. Navy ships and the Aegis system and SM-3 and Tomahawk missiles.” Washington insists on the principle of freedom of navigation, which is at odds with the interests of China in the region. The placement of military infrastructure by Beijing on the Spratly Archipelago would eliminate the ability of U.S. warships to navigate these waters. http://rbth.com/international/2016/09/08/russia-could-gain-from-backing-china-in-south-china-sea-disputes-experts_628057 http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russia-chinas-combat-drills-the-south-china-sea-matter-17729?page=show As the key element of the annual drill, the Chinese and Russian navies dispatched vessels including missile destroyer, anti-submarine vessels, missile frigates, ship-based helicopters and conventional submarines, among others, official media here reported. The exercises demonstrated the Chinese and Russian navies' capacities in command management, telecommunications coordination, and intelligence and information sharing, Senior Captain Li Xiangdong, who commanded the Chinese warships, told state-run China Daily. Addressing the closing ceremony of the drill, which ran from September 13 to 19, Wang Hai, deputy commander of the Chinese Navy, lauded the exercise as successful and said the activity had achieved the desired aim. Wang said the drill had improved the actual combat capabilities, informationisation and standardisation of the two navies, adding that they will expand practical cooperation and boost communication, state-run Xinhua news agency said. Alexander Fedotenkov, deputy commander of the Russian Navy, said the two navies shared theoretical and practical experience and were engaged in sound collaboration throughout the exercise. Fedotenkov said the two sides will maintain close marine cooperation ties, deal with new challenges and threats, and together safeguard world peace and regional stability. The "Joint Sea 2016" drill featured surface ships, submarines, fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters, marines and amphibious armored equipment. http://www.business-standard.com/article/printer-friendly-version?article_id=116091900921_1
    It's a win-win for both: their SLOCs r better protected, skills maintained, outsiders r kept out, & rivals confronted together. The Pac. Fleet is no stranger there since the Cold & Vietnam Wars!


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Joint drills in the SCS

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:51 pm

    It's a win-win for both: their SLOCs r better protected, skills maintained, outsiders r kept out, & rivals confronted together. The Pac. Fleet is no stranger there since the Cold & Vietnam Wars! http://rbth.com/international/2016/09/08/russia-could-gain-from-backing-china-in-south-china-sea-disputes-experts_628057 http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russia-chinas-combat-drills-the-south-china-sea-matter-17729?page=show

    As the key element of the annual drill, the Chinese and Russian navies dispatched vessels including missile destroyer, anti-submarine vessels, missile frigates, ship-based helicopters and conventional submarines, among others, official media here reported. The exercises demonstrated the Chinese and Russian navies' capacities in command management, telecommunications coordination, and intelligence and information sharing, Senior Captain Li Xiangdong, who commanded the Chinese warships, told state-run China Daily. Addressing the closing ceremony of the drill, which ran from September 13 to 19, Wang Hai, deputy commander of the Chinese Navy, lauded the exercise as successful and said the activity had achieved the desired aim. Wang said the drill had improved the actual combat capabilities, informationisation and standardisation of the two navies, adding that they will expand practical cooperation and boost communication, state-run Xinhua news agency said. Alexander Fedotenkov, deputy commander of the Russian Navy, said the two navies shared theoretical and practical experience and were engaged in sound collaboration throughout the exercise. Fedotenkov said the two sides will maintain close marine cooperation ties, deal with new challenges and threats, and together safeguard world peace and regional stability. The "Joint Sea 2016" drill featured surface ships, submarines, fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters, marines and amphibious armored equipment. http://www.business-standard.com/article/printer-friendly-version?article_id=116091900921_1
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:51 am

    Russia will equip the ships missile system "Tor" instead of "Dagger"


    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160926/1477860855.html



    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    “Willingly or unwillingly Russia supports China's claim to disputed islands in the South China Sea,

    and

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Washington insists on the principle of freedom of navigation, which is at odds with the interests of China in the region.



    wait wait what Fashingtron is doing in SOUTH CHINA SEA? is does not sound like south USA sea to me.  Razz  Razz  Razz


    BTW China and Russia should isist on  freedom o Navigation in Big Lakes region and Panama Canal.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Isos on Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:57 pm


    eridan

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eridan on Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:14 pm

    Is there a source which could help me with numbers of currently active ships of the russian navy replenishment fleet?

    So far I haven't managed to find an up to date source. Closest to that might be russianships.info but even there I can't really tell how much out of date info is.

    Using their data I get something like 18 underway fuel replenishment ships with total fuel store tonnage (not total displacement tonnage) of roughly 125 thousand tons.

    Does anyone have better data?
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:59 pm

    eridan wrote:Is there a source which could help me with numbers of currently active ships of the russian navy replenishment fleet?

    So far I haven't managed to find an up to date source. Closest to that might be russianships.info but even there I can't really tell how much out of date info is.

    Using their data I get something like 18 underway fuel replenishment ships with total fuel store tonnage (not total displacement tonnage) of roughly 125 thousand tons.

    Does anyone have better data?

    here is a page with all russian auxilliary ships, but you must search to find. Tankers are the replenishment ships you ask for i guess

    http://russianships.info/eng/support/

    Project 23130 medium sea tanker and Project 23131 universal sea tanker are the latest classes that have been built


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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:52 pm

    Russian submarines are going to be outfitted with new unique piezoceramic coating antennas capable of intercepting and distorting signals emitted by enemy sonars.

    The new invention, developed by OceanPribor Concern and the Krylov Research Center under the auspices of the Foundation for Advanced Research Projects, is essentially a polymer membrane designed to cover the entire hull of a submarine. These new antennas are expected to be installed both on the next generation submarines and on the submersibles that are already employed by the Russian Navy.

    A source in the Defense Ministry privy to the development of the new antenna told Russian newspaper Izvestia that the work is proceeding as planned, and that testing is expected to begin soon. "We’re talking about a polymer membrane based on lead, titanium and zirconium oxides that can both absorb and transmit a signal. Essentially, this piezorubber coating transforms the submarine’s entire hull into a hydroacoustic antenna," the source explained. The project, designated as Korsas ('Corsair' in Russian) is being funded by the Foundation for Advanced Research Projects, with OceanPribor designing antennas and sensors, and the Krylov Research Center working on integrating the piezoceramic coating into submarines’ outer plating.

    The operating principle of the new antenna is fairly simple: the membrane captures a sonar signal, analyzes and distorts it, and then sends it back. The project’s cornerstone is a unique piezoceramic capable of absorbing and distorting acoustic signals. According to the source, research and development is expected to be completed by the end of the 2017.


    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/20160930/1045884198/submarine-antenna-sonar-stealth.html

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Austin on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:03 am

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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  kvs on Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:13 am


    The US is prepared to stroke its dick as it masturbates to greater glory.

    Trash talking losers.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:08 am

    Googie at work: "Amber" on submarine cables in Syria

    According to the web-resource "Covert Shores", an oceanographic research vessel "Amber" project 22010, subordinate to the Chief management of deep-sea research (Googie) of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, since October 7, 2016 has been in an unknown activity in the location areas of international submarine communications cables in East Mediterranean near the Syrian coast.




    Ship "Yantar" has passed privily Bosphorus towards the Black Sea to the Mediterranean on 3 October. The report indicates a resource that from 7 to 10 October, about three days, "Amber" was fixed at a point near Latakia, where the Turkish submarine communications cable Turtcyos-2 connecting the Turkish province of Hatay with the unrecognized Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.




    Then on October 10, "Amber" has moved south to the coast of Lebanon, where from 17.00 the same day, "floating" near the Lebanese Tripoli at the point of "Lebanese" an offshoot of the international submarine cable connection IMEWE, connecting Europe, the Middle East and India.






    Recall that the head oceanographic research vessel "Amber" project 22010 was built for Googie at the JSC "Baltic Shipyard" Yantar "in Kaliningrad, naval flag on the ship was raised by 23 May 2015.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2174698.html



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    George1

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:09 am

    can anyone with better knowledge to describe us what Amber actually do there?


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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:39 pm

    Its first mission would likely be to physically locate underwater cables on the seabed and map their position.

    Once their position is mapped then it would likely drop sensors that do not break the cables but can listen in to the traffic moving through the cables.

    they would leave the sensors in position to collect data for a period and then recover them to examine the data haul...


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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:07 pm

    Benya wrote:


    Speaking about Admiral Gorshkov- and Admiral Grigorovich- classes, they are coming slow but sure. We know that they have suffered from engine shortages (formerly engines were supplied by Ukraine, but due to the ongoing crisis, further supplied were discontinued), and AFAIK, domestic supplier NPO Saturn will only be able to supply new engines from 2017-2018. However, I think that Admiral Kasatonov (second ship of the Gorshkov-class) is undergoing trials alongside the Admiral Gorshkov (lead ship of the class).

    Looks like engine supply problem has been solved.

    The two engineless ships have been sold to India who will now purchase the, possibly already built, engines from Ukraine, plus two more for the Indian built version of the frigate.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:15 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Benya wrote:


    Speaking about Admiral Gorshkov- and Admiral Grigorovich- classes, they are coming slow but sure. We know that they have suffered from engine shortages (formerly engines were supplied by Ukraine, but due to the ongoing crisis, further supplied were discontinued), and AFAIK, domestic supplier NPO Saturn will only be able to supply new engines from 2017-2018. However, I think that Admiral Kasatonov (second ship of the Gorshkov-class) is undergoing trials alongside the Admiral Gorshkov (lead ship of the class).

    Looks like engine supply problem has been solved.

    The two engineless ships have been sold to India who will now purchase the, possibly already built, engines from Ukraine, plus two more for the Indian built version of the frigate.

    So Navy that is already short on surface vessels will have even less surface vessels than before?

    Bravo, that will totally prove to everyone that you guys are not just a bad joke. Rolling Eyes
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:39 pm

    @ Papadragon

    Selling a ship that can not enter service anytime soon will not reduce the number of vessels. You can not loose what you don't have.

    When the first domestic made engines are produced, priority will be given to the Gorshkov class frigates. The 11356 frigates will have to wait in line a bit longer. So, they are not going to enter service anytime soon.
    Might as well sell them, get the invested money back (together with some nice profits) and reinvest that money in building other types of ships that will enter service sooner than the 11356s would have if they had stayed in the yards until engines become available.

    Here is an interesting photo in which the Admiral Gorshkov frigate is behind the 956 class destroyer, yet it appears just as big.
    Perhaps the Gorshkov frigates are larger than the quoted 4500T displacement!

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    VladimirSahin

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:01 pm

    It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:43 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Isos on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:33 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.

    It's stupid for Ukraine. They will never found a client like Russia as the west has it's domestic production, idem for asia. In the long term Ukraine looses. Russia will just have more industries and more jobs for its population, specially if you look at all the ship that will be build in the near future.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:49 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.

    It's stupid for Ukraine. They will never found a client like Russia as the west has it's domestic production, idem for asia. In the long term Ukraine looses. Russia will just have more industries and more jobs for its population, specially if you look at all the ship that will be build in the near future.

    Potentially its space for Russian industry and economy to grow... however... as there is always however. For certain components it will take a long period of time as Russians never had industrial base for some of Ukrainian products, simply as it was set back when USSR existed. So they now need to almost do stuff from the scratch and it can take... years even decades.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:16 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.

    It's stupid for Ukraine. They will never found a client like Russia as the west has it's domestic production, idem for asia. In the long term Ukraine looses. Russia will just have more industries and more jobs for its population, specially if you look at all the ship that will be build in the near future.

    Potentially its space for Russian industry and economy to grow... however... as there is always however. For certain components it will take a long period of time as Russians never had industrial base for some of Ukrainian products, simply as it was set back when USSR existed. So they now need to almost do stuff from the scratch and it can take... years even decades.
    Which could mean we end up with like, the best ship-building industry in the world or something. Building from scratch usually yields excellent innovations... but the time factor is a shame for sure.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:45 am

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.

    It's stupid for Ukraine. They will never found a client like Russia as the west has it's domestic production, idem for asia. In the long term Ukraine looses. Russia will just have more industries and more jobs for its population, specially if you look at all the ship that will be build in the near future.

    Potentially its space for Russian industry and economy to grow... however... as there is always however. For certain components it will take a long period of time as Russians never had industrial base for some of Ukrainian products, simply as it was set back when USSR existed. So they now need to almost do stuff from the scratch and it can take... years even decades.
    Which could mean we end up with like, the best ship-building industry in the world or something. Building from scratch usually yields excellent innovations... but the time factor is a shame for sure.

    I wouldnt go that far and expect best shipbuilding industry in the world, that is very unrealistic as Japan, South Korea and few other major shipbuilding nations are so far ahead its not very likely Russia will catch up any time soon. However reviving some of the dead shipyards, repairing them, and start building ships at least for own industry needs would be a good start.

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