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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45

    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:09 pm

    The amount of deaths seen on Telegram is shocking. These retards are worse than ISIS. These brainwashed retards try more low percentage moves than ISIS did. ISIS mainly used suicide bombers for specific missions and the men that did them made peace with death. What we see in Ukraine is large groups of men suiciding themselves on low percentage missions and they somehow think they are going to live.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:12 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:That is something I noticed myself. Russia was bragging so much about these weapons.

    I remember that back in late February and March of 2022 the Russian columns were driving around with these with the result that they were  getting destroyed or captured due to the Ukrainian ambushes.

    Now when you need them for the static fortifications combat, they are used amazingly rarely.


    That puzzles me.

    The lives of many Russian troops would have been saved by a generous use of these weapons.




    They are.
    They were used to good effect against those Ukrainian DRG groups that infiltrated Russian lines and retreated back to forests upon being discovered

    As for static fortifications - which ones? It's the Ukrainians who have been attacking in recent months, with the exception of towns and cities such as Bakhmut, Marinka and so on where Russia has been advancing, but TOS weapons would incur a lot of civilian casualties in this type of combat - remaining civilians mostly stick to the basements where conventional shells won't harm them unless they're unlucky, but any sort of thermobaric weapon will kill everyone.

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    Post  Hole Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:23 pm

    The Russian army is advancing on Kupyansk, breaking through the enemy’s defenses near Liman the First
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 25aa In the Liman Pervy - Sinkovka - Masyutovka area, heavy fighting is going on throughout the day, the fighters are reporting from the spot.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 25aa Our people crossed the railway and attacked the enemy's defenders.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 25aa"Our guys are destroying the enemy behind a piece of iron," the fighters report.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 25aa Enemy resources confirm that Russian troops are on the offensive, using TOS-1A "Solntsepyok", artillery, aircraft and demining vehicles - Ur-77 "Serpent Gorynych".
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 25aaIn the daily report of the Ministry of Defense, it was reported that operational-tactical and army aviation, artillery of the Western Military District hit the manpower and equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, incl. area n.p. Estuary First Kharkov region.
    http://t.me/RVvoenkor

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 F1gy1s10


    More POW´s
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 F1fc2310

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    Post  Hole Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:57 pm

    In the area of ​​​​the Veremevsky ledge, another 3 boxes (MRAPs and armored personnel carriers) were destroyed.
    The work of the Baltics of the 336th Marine Brigade.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 F1bntw10

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    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:16 am

    Broski wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    I suspect they don't want hostile populations joining the Russian Federation and that destroying their army while their population festers is much simpler that trying to win the hearts and minds of nazi aholes who are happy to watch Ukrainians whose only crime was wanting to speak Russian burn...
    The easiest way of getting the Ukrainians to turn on their government is to let them live under it for a while longer, slow grinding the cannon fodder sent to the frontlines and improving air defense to counter western made missiles. Afterwards...
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 Novorossia
    страна 404

    I personally believe this is the mission goal and ultimate endgame.
    To have Ukraine depopulated, reformed into new territory's and maintain an buffer zone that will as a "no-mans land"against the west.

    I have no issue with this, Because i believe this conflict has no other "good" outcome.
    Ukraine can not be allowed to exist, or it will just be re-armed in the long run by NATO to have another go at Russia.
    It would be in NATO's interest to keep this an festering wound in Russia's back garden.

    When i see Medvedev's posts on twitter, i always crack a laugh too.
    But i do not believe one moment he is joking about that Ukraine will cease to exist in the future.
    It is not hard to see the sings of this process taking place for an while.

    When Kiev runs out of cannon-fodder, and NATO leaves Kiev out to be mauled by the Russians.
    All of Ukraine will implode over the span of a few days or maybe a week or two when their control falls apart.
    Russia can then decide how it will deal with all these territory's.

    There will be an bufferzone against NATO, where Russia will have full authority over.
    Be it the little territory that will bear the name "ukraine". or something else.

    I really can not feel much symphathy for the entity that is called "Ukraine"

    It had everything handed to them as soon it was born,
    Debts taken away, amazing farmlands, high deposits in the grounds.
    Some amazing industry. And they all squandered it away.
    But worst of all, they turned to Fascism and let themselves be turned into an slave by NATO to self-sacrifice against Russia.

    They pulled absolute acts of brutality right out of the gate as they seized power.
    Russians where to be exterminated from "their" lands.

    I think all of us here remember the pictures, like those from Odessa with the handprints on the blackened walls or the pregnant women strangled with a phoneline.

    The sooner these lands return to Russian control, the better.
    And never let NATO get their hooks into it again. Never forget how this all started.

    NSFW for dead body's. Police on fire



    Last edited by Airbornewolf on Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:09 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    I think all of us here remember the pictures, like those from Odessa with the handprints on the blackened walls or the pregnant women strangled with a phoneline.
    Yes, sadly I watched it live as it happened. Will never forget.

    God works in mysterious ways

    GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 --
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    Air raids active across Eastern and Southern Ukraine.

    Ukrainian monitoring channels report the takeoff of two Tu-22M3 strategic missile carriers of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:16 am

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    Post  Belisarius Sun Jul 16, 2023 2:08 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 Img_2306

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:27 am

    Little Zellies rousing speech of encouragement to the troops....

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 F1fuy-10

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    Post  diabetus Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:28 am

    Backman wrote:

    So just like I thought last year, the much vaunted US/Nato super tablets with F-35 level "data fusion" don't actually exist. There were posters on this board who bought into it

    They do. Of course, if you're training in a scenario where EW has jammed comms to the point of making them ineffective, then they won't be used for that training event. That statement about drones only being available at brigade level and above is utter nonsense.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:56 am

    From all appearances Erdogan seems to have overplayed his hand and underestimated Moscow's reaction to his breaking of the agreement. Not like I said in another thread - because of any innate value of the Azov Nazi commanders themselves.

    Turkey is not in a great position economically so being allowed to join the EU after 50 years of trying is probably something he wants, despite all he is likely to get is a free trade agreement and visa free entry into EU countries at best... lots of countries in the EU don't like Turkey and think the same way they think about Russians... they are only half european and half african or half asian and should not be part of the EU... (their thoughts not mine... I think the EU is not a fair market and most Turkish companies would get crushed or bought out by bigger western companies)... I think if Turkey actually joined the EU a few neighbouring countries might decide to leave... but I think what Erdogan really wants is to drop the Lira and move to the Euro for stability...

    Stoltenberg has already said the entry of Turkey is not guaranteed, and Erdogan has already said the acceptance of Sweden requires the acceptance of Turkey into the EU so there is a lot of horse trading to do.

    I would love to see Turkey in the EU and Sweden in HATO, because Erdogan is not going to accept what Brussels tells them to do and Sweden is already essentially part of HATO anyway... why hide their lack of neutrality? Let them spend 2% of their GDP buying American weapons... the rest of HATO seems to be replacing old stock with American gear... expensive not so effective gear.

    Erdogan is the biggest snake in geopolitics. At least with Joe Bidet, you know what you are getting.

    He is just stirring the pot seeing what he can get from everyone... Turkey got a lot of grain from the Ukraine in this grain deal and they made lots of money exporting flour from the deal so of course he wants it to continue, but I am sure the Russians can say, well we are not getting what we want from the deal because our terms are not being met so we are not continuing the grain deal, but we are supplying third world countries with grain and fertiliser... much of it will be free so we could probably sell grain to you for making flour so you can continue to make good money, but we can too.

    Or just stiff them like they appear to have stiffed Russia over the Azov agreement...

    Right now Turkey isn't part of the sanctions against Russia and keeping it that way is good for Russia.

    He is an absolute arsehole and knows full well he'd be dead if not for Putin.

    That time has passed... the world owed a debt to the Soviet Union for taking on the brunt of nazi germany during WWII but such things are quickly forgotten.

    Turkey is not getting to be a gas hub with Russian gas if it joins the EU and has to adopt their sanctions and equally I think Russia needs to reconsider its relations with countries of that block in regard to the supply of Uranium and nuclear power technology.

    I see the US is wanting to get back at Russia in Syria, so having Erdogan on side or at least neutral would be useful.

    Ah, but the loader is a cool dude, look at his hat's position

    OMG when the instructor took off the safety cap and handed it back to him and he tried to drop it in nose first... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again!!!!!!!!!!!

    Volunteer for the suicide squad....

    The easiest way of getting the Ukrainians to turn on their government is to let them live under it for a while longer, slow grinding the cannon fodder sent to the frontlines and improving air defense to counter western made missiles. Afterwards...

    Time was never a luxury Putin had, and I agree that sometimes the best way to cure people of the American dream is to let them live it for a while... because it is only living it for a while do you realise it is only a dream for Americans and that was in the 1950s... these days the only ones who get to live the American dream are the 1% millionaires and billionaires... and when things get to bad they are going to leave anyway... lots of Yanks buying properties in central otago here in NZ... that Cameron guy who filmed the titanic lives here too...

    Now when you need them for the static fortifications combat, they are used amazingly rarely.


    That puzzles me.

    The lives of many Russian troops would have been saved by a generous use of these weapons.

    Their short range and devastating effect means you can really only use them after getting very close to enemy lines and you need to be sure there are no friendlies or civilians nearby too.

    Normally using artillery to take on trenches means delayed fuse shells that bury themselves in the dirt and don't seem to be very effective at all, but the shockwaves they send through the ground liquify it and it moves like slow water and things like trenches and tunnels fill in and people are buried alive.... for a few seconds it is liquid and then it turns to concrete and you can't move and most of the time the weight of the dirt crushes you to death and you suffocate... the stuff of nightmares really.

    Why does TOS missiles have short range compared to Grad or Tornado? Is it because Thermobaric munitions have heavier weight compared to High Explosive? I heard the new versions have improved range. But I'd like to see bigger thermobaric missiles with extended range and heavier payload to burn more NATO personal and equipment.

    If you think of the difference between a grenade launcher and a gun, or a mortar an a gun, the payload is always a much bigger component than the propellent because a bigger boom is more important than better reach. It was to be used like minefield breaching charges right up on the front line so there was not considered any need for long range and even the new model only reaches about 10-12km or so.

    If you want long range effect then use Smerch... but you need to use a lot more to get the same effect.. because of the smaller payload and bigger range.

    It is 220mm rocket which have certain amount rocket fuel and certain mount explosives (thermobaric load). If you increase the range, then you need to reduce payload. Purpose of this gun is to inflict maximal damage and therefoe optimum solution has been found this combination of range and destructive power.

    Yes, it is the same calibre as Uragan but the Uragan rockets have much greater range and smaller payloads... but also a wide variety of payload options too.



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    Post  ahmedfire Sun Jul 16, 2023 7:45 am

    lol
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #45 - Page 38 Elonf110

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:23 am

    JohninMK wrote:

    Not quite right

    The Ukraine used a cluster-warhead Tochka-U when it struck the Kramatorsk railways station last year and killed over 50 assembled civilians

    Reportedly when it struck the Russian Alligator-class landing vessel and sunk it in Melitopol last year too, where the same warhead managed to damage some other nearby ships too

    No doubt on other occasions via the Tochka-U too

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:18 am

    Cluster ammunition has been widely deployed in this conflict.
    By both sides.
    There is nothing behind this "cluster ammo" idiocy other than the need of creating another Wunderwaffe bogus to be waved in front of an ignorant audience.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:33 am

    The fact of the matter is that they have nothing else to send and that any they do send were put in storage in 2015 when they decided they were not going to use them any more and the plan was to eventually dispose of them so no maintenance... how reliable were they when they went into storage an how reliable will they be by now...

    Essentially these are mostly going to be UXO they are dropping on the battlefield, and of course Russia is going to respond by using their own and they have an enormous variety of types and versions of these things including aircraft delivered cluster bombs that can use the new glide kits to put them in the right place to release their payload.

    The super fun fact is that cluster munitions are not great against troops in trenches or manning defenses, but they are fantastic against enemy armour and troops formed up to mount offensives... like the Ukrainian forces right now.... and rather unlike Russian forces right now.

    Freeing Russias hand to use vastly more effective munitions at a critical time for Kiev is about as dumb as they could get... these Kiev forces were already in trouble and now they will face submunitions that will shred their forces and really make this very very very bloody... the injury rate will drop to single figures because the dead count will replace it... but pro Ukraine idiots are crowing that this new game changer will fix everything...

    Suffice to say launching a Lancet suicide drone to hit an M777 towed gun means damage to the gun, but the troops and ammo and towing vehicle will walk away because they wont have enough drones there to hit each soldier and each ammo position and each truck so they would use the drone to hit the gun.

    With cluster munitions they can shower the area and get a good chance of hitting everything... only using a couple of rockets...

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 9:37 am

    But we have that data.
    14% malfunction rate with a brand new ammo.
    Now we are talking about something that was in storage since the 80s.
    It is a 30+ y/o ammunition.
    Those poor bastards will consider themself lucky if that shit will only leave the barrel with the desired end.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:04 am

    Backman wrote:The amount of deaths seen on Telegram is shocking. These retards are worse than ISIS. These brainwashed retards try more low percentage moves than ISIS did. ISIS mainly used suicide bombers for specific missions and the men that did them made peace with death.  What we see in Ukraine is large groups of men suiciding themselves on low percentage missions and they somehow think they are going to live.

    Good

    This is exactly the mindset you want them to have

    If Nazism is their thing in 2023 then I say they should keep going even harder


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    Post  RTN Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:13 am

    Bradley took a direct hit and yet continued its operations. Slava Ukraine.

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    Post  Werewolf Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:14 am

    Here we go again out right Nazi slogans shouted on the forum.

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    Post  Mir Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:15 am

    Looks like it ran into a tree? dunno

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    Post  Sujoy Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:24 am

    Backman wrote:What we see in Ukraine is large groups of men suiciding themselves on low percentage missions and they somehow think they are going to live.
    This is exactly the reason why the US started the war in Ukraine - to lay their hands on Ukrainian women. With all the Ukrainian men gone, incel American men can get hold of Ukrainian women.

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    Post  VARGR198 Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:36 am

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:03 am

    Bradley took a direct hit and yet continued its operations.

    Didn't realise how paper thin those things are... 12.7mm HMG would penetrate that even on a bad day...

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:59 am

    There was a McGregor entry yesterday with some first-person experience about "cluster ammo".
    It was used in the Gulf War where he commanded.
    Confirmed a huge percentage of malfunctions.
    Unexploded pieces scattering the ground were a big deal for infantry units and logistics that operated light skin trucks, and followed the heavy component.
    And a huge impact on the civilian population, with multiple cases where they were forced to medevac  civilian victims.

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    Post  Isos Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:08 pm

    Mir wrote:Looks like it ran into a tree? dunno

    Not impossible...

    Actually if there is no oil or shells on the path, apfsds will just make a small hole and go through the vehicle.

    Light vehicles can easily survive a hit of apfsds. Even crew won't be injured.

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