Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+65
Werewolf
mavaff
ahmedfire
zepia
berhoum
Tolstoy
Sujoy
RTN
ludovicense
DerWolf
Walther von Oldenburg
Godric
mack8
higurashihougi
Stealthflanker
d_taddei2
Kiko
ucmvulcan
Isos
thegopnik
zare
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
Belisarius
TMA1
Scorpius
xeno
Firebird
PhSt
Regular
limb
GunshipDemocracy
SeigSoloyvov
zorobabel
caveat emptor
JohninMK
Broski
lyle6
Mir
Arrow
Dr.Snufflebug
Arkanghelsk
Erk
sepheronx
kvs
Big_Gazza
Airbornewolf
mnztr
dionis
Odin of Ossetia
littlerabbit
Azi
pavi
Podlodka77
nomadski
franco
flamming_python
Hole
famschopman
Rodion_Romanovic
GarryB
ALAMO
billybatts91
Backman
PapaDragon
VARGR198
69 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 14965
    Points : 15102
    Join date : 2014-09-10
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  kvs Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:02 am

    That's the usual chutzpah-speak of western haters. Refugees fleeing into Russia are sent to concentration camps. Because Russians love to abuse and oppress
    Russians.

    GarryB, flamming_python, Hole, Mir, Broski, Belisarius, Podlodka77 and ucmvulcan like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 2700
    Points : 2738
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  mnztr Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:04 am

    PODLOKA77: Not so easy, NATO airfields have hardened shelters, so it would require almost a direct hit on each shelter to take them out. And I think we can agree that both sides will be using GPS and Glonass jamming. or take out each others satellites. So everyone will revert to INS and other passive sensors. First job will be to take out Russias air defence radars, I have NO IDEA how this will go and neither do you. It all really hinges on this. If the US cannot disable the radars, or successfully spoof or jam them, then they will be swatted out of the sky. If NATO cannot establish air dominance then their fighting system starts to fall apart. If they can establish air dominance, it depends on how many planes they still have, how much they have expended. If Russia can even maintain localized effective air defense then they stand a good chance. If their airforce can take out tankers and AWACs also a huge + Who knows who know who knows. ???? confused confused confused
    lyle6
    lyle6


    Posts : 2101
    Points : 2095
    Join date : 2020-09-13
    Location : Philippines

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  lyle6 Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:34 am

    Actually if it really is true that Wagner is being shortchanged in Bakmut and it isn't just Prigozhin trolling - so what?

    Russian doctrine hates hates the idea of sending good money after the bad. Wagner is performing heroically but Ukraine has made it apparent that they will hold their ground in Bakhmut. They would send any number of soldiers and heavy equipment, denuding other fronts just to keep the line steady. It  is no exaggeration but the UAF is strongest in Bakhmut - and why would you meet the enemy where he is strongest? Instead the wiser course of action is to cut your losses, and beef up anywhere else where your enemy is weakest - which is just about everywhere that is not Bakhmut.

    With regards to the recruitment of prisoners remember this has always been an emergency measure from lack of manpower. They mobilized a couple hundred thousand and there is enough political capital for further mobilizations in the future so manpower is not that dire of a problem as before. Anyone who is inclined to join and fit to wear the uniform has probably signed up anyway, so no point in trying to scrape the barrel.

    GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2, kvs, ALAMO, Hole, owais.usmani and Belisarius like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 2700
    Points : 2738
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  mnztr Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:45 am

    Its possible the general staff decided that Wagner was incurring too many casualties and attempts to take it were too costly. So the job is just contain and keep pounding them. If Ukraine wants to keep feeding the meat grinder Russia will keep turning the handle.

    GarryB, flamming_python and Rodion_Romanovic like this post

    higurashihougi
    higurashihougi


    Posts : 2989
    Points : 3078
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  higurashihougi Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:48 am

    It  is no exaggeration but the UAF is strongest in Bakhmut - and why would you meet the enemy where he is strongest? Instead the wiser course of action is to cut your losses, and beef up anywhere else where your enemy is weakest - which is just about everywhere that is not Bakhmut.

    Which means that Prigozhin was leaking Russian military information and tactics to outsiders. I don't side with anyone in this affair as clearly I have no position and information to judge them, but that is definitely a bad thing for Russia.

    I don't know it is just a bluff or deliberate misinformation from Russia but if it is not, then there is a serious issue about (1) internal conflict and (2) Russian top leaders fail to have a proper control on some of their subordinates.

    GarryB likes this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 4557
    Points : 4549
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:54 am

    The more that the Nazi regime wants to keep Bahkmut/Artemovsk, the more the Russians need to take it from them. Twisted Evil

    The Kiev regime will suffer a catastrophic PR loss when the city finally falls and Russian troops push on deeper into occupied territory. So much pain and humiliation is coming their way... and it will help them toughen up their ring-pieces for the veritable shitstorm of failure that they will suffer as this thing carries on to its logical conclusion. Razz

    d_taddei2, kvs, Lapain, Hole and Podlodka77 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38522
    Points : 39022
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:31 am

    Other then strategic aviation they have not really made a massive difference. I do not see them being used well at the tactical level, or for interdiction, or for counter battery. Most of the Ukranian AF was taken out on the ground or by SAMs. Ukraine is being allowed to operate with far too much freedom

    Amusing you make such a claim because it was not that long ago that we saw a video of a foreigner fighting for Kiev state that despite all the artillery it is Russian air power he fears the most.

    Maybe you are not getting a clear impression of what is happening on the ground?

    Vietnam has jungles, Ukraine wide open spaces. Its not a valid comparison .

    Vietnam did have extensive jungles and the US solution to that was Agent Orange and Agent Blue and lots of other chemical combinations that would be classed as illegal weapons of war if properly investigated... but they didn't destroy enormous areas of jungle and poison millions of people including their own for precision bombing... the kept carpet bombing anything that moved in any area designated as being enemy held or enemy occupied. (destroying food crops is a warcrime already)

    It is not an accident that the most bombed country on the planet was not in Europe... but in SE Asia... they dropped more bombs there than they dropped during the Strategic bombing campaign in Europe and over Japan combined...

    They killed a lot of people and created a lot of destruction... and lost the war.

    You have always had an ego too big for the known size of a galaxy, but the thing is getting worse each day.

    But every internet expert knows you win wars by carpet bombing till they surrender or there is nothing left... can't for the life of me remember the last time that even worked... but all you need is air power... and excessive force.

    The thing was quite notorious in the memories of multiple pilots, and very clear when they had to switch for plane generations or types.
    Sometimes some skills and training can be dangerous with a new type of plane because one is remembering the behaviors of a different machine.

    Funny you mention that Alamo, I remember a story about British Pilots after the war who had converted to a new type of Spitfire and it was better and improved and all this sort of thing but they found their more experienced pilots were crashing their planes. After an investigation it turned out that some design expert was at fault... they had added a new ejection system for the aircraft and this design expert had decided that the location for the ejection button which needed to be visible at all times and easy to put your finger on in an emergency so they put it where the trigger used to be to fire the guns... you can guess what happened of course.

    New pilots had no problems but the old hands during training would line up a target to shoot and then find they were being ejected from the aircraft...

    Still unclear to my why Russia does not carpet bomb that village if it's so tactically important to remove Ukr forces from there.

    There seems to be a consensus on the internet that all you need do is carpet bomb an area and everything in that area dies... it is very similar to the attitude in the first world war... we have been shelling them for days so that when we attack you guys can just stand up and march slowly forward being careful not to slip in the mud and occupy the enemies trenches because they will all be dead now. Of course about the time the German machine guns opened fire you realised how wrong that advice was... but people continue to give that advice 80 odd years later.

    The Germans hammered Stalingrad from the air... who won that battle?

    Civil infrastructure components in space provided to Ukraine for military purposes may become a legitimate target for retaliation, the Russian Foreign Ministry said

    Hello maxar, earth sense and starlink

    HATO has just come out with a press release demanding that western civilian telecommunications infrastructure become part of a pooled resource for HATO to use for military purposes... which makes western civilian satellite infrastructure fair game too really... this should be fun.

    People have no power and don't matter. Look at Ukraine.

    The people in the Crimea got lots of votes, but it only counted when Putin had troops there to oversee the Crimean people organise everything for themselves.

    If the people of Belarus think they will get a better deal with the US then let them.

    It is not Russias job to save everyone from themselves.

    So kill their leader and ignore the countries populations wishes whatever they might be? for guys who claim to hate western methods...you sure do support them when it suits you

    He couldn't have said it better if he had an American accent... but would need to mention peace and security in the region and spreading democracy and all that as well.

    Prigozhin said that bakhmut couldve been taken by december if the MoD didnt cut wagner off from ammo supplies. This is treason. **** shoigu. I trust prigozhin. Prigozhin is the only patriotic and competent russian commander who can actually bring results. I hope prigozhin takes over the MoD and sacks Shoigu and Konashenkov, and demotes gerasimov.

    A PMC blaming someone else for their ammo supply... surely they should set that up for themselves... what an incompetent twat... he shouldn't replace Shoigu.... he should replace the idiot that cleans Shoigus boots at night with his tongue and a toothbrush.

    So its the usual culprits, the fossilized potbelly dinosaurs who funded military cathedrals and underwater nuclear dildos, who are betraying russian soldiers in wagner.

    Wow it took two posts to get to the replace Putin claim... are you getting sloppy or think you are fooling us?

    Prigozhin a man who knows HOW to get things done and if efficient, the type of person people in power hate because it makes them look bad.

    Yes, no evidence required... it is just obviously true... like certain doomsayers on this forum are working directly for Kiev while pretending to be Patriots or US mercenaries or whatever they are this week.

    They have shown a lot of videos with helos and SU-24 launching unguided rockets into the horizon. So they are clearly trying to showcase it, but what they have shown is of questionable effect to be honest.

    Actually looking back at previous exercises I can find examples of lofted rocket launches, which were previously dismissed as stunts for the photoshoot...

    What you have to understand is that air launched rockets have very short ranges... have a look at the rockets helicopters fire and you will see the smoke trails only burn for a couple of hundred metres and then the rocket motor burns out and there is no smoke trail beyond that.

    These rockets are not designed to be used against targets more than 3-4km away because they are not super high velocity long range rockets... it is very much like using a pistol bullet in a SMG to rain rounds down on a target a known distance away... if you used a full power rifle cartridge the range would be 4-5km, but with pistol bullets and a SMG the range might only be 800-1,000m those bullets will be falling on and they will be well spread out.

    Now of course with bullets it does not make sense because you have to hit your target with the bullet to have any effect on the target, but with rockets it is like mortar bombs... the requirements change... when you fire 20 mortar bombs at a target that might be troops spread out in a field you don't want all 20 bombs to hit one guy because they spread out so one bomb can't kill or injure more than one person so a good spread of rockets means you spread the shrapnel and have a much better chance of hitting and injuring or killing more men and you certainly stop that rifle charge too... the recipients stop focussing on attacking you and try to work out how to get back to cover.

    Another advantage of lofting the rockets is that they tend to all land at about the same time so less time to take cover.

    In Bosnia USA had to put up no-fly zone because our shitty ass airforce was fúcking up their Bosnian butt buddies so hard the war would have been over in a month

    If they could put up a no fly zone over the Ukraine they would, and they would if the VKS were as shit as you say...

    KLA couldn't use anything bigger than RPG-7 because our trainer jets were bombing them to shit while NATO was bombing us

    KLA were a terrorist group that were probably an Albanian gay youth club before the war started... you think you jet trainers destroyed their supply columns?

    But Russia still plays fúcking Winter War in 2023...

    They are killing the minimum civilians necessary... they can't win this war by carpet bombing Ukraine into extinction, they have to be rational about this... there has to be people on the other side who realise they are being used by the US as cannon fodder and to want a different future for the Ukraine... otherwise the grinding will just continue forever... which Russia is adapting its tactics and resources over time to make that an option.

    Ukrainians are able to use artillery ergo VKS failed since it was their job to make sure Ukrainian artillery is gone alongside anything else on the surface

    This conflict is being fought by the Russian Army.... the Russian Air Force is just a support arm... just like the Russian Navy is.

    Could say Air forces only defeat pussies on their own... I appreciate that is upsetting to you, but Serbia was isolated and Russia was tricked.

    But I would not say that because it would be disrespectful to those Serbs who actually fought the entire western world on their own.

    Will mention it though because you don't extend the same respect to the Russian pilots fighting and dying nazisms rise in Europe yet again...

    Oh, now of course it will be Putins fault.

    Yeah lack of air superiority is the reason why the war stall.

    Not sure if you are being sarcastic, but the western strategic bombing campaign of WWII did **** all to defeat Germany in the end... they still had to send in ground troops to fight building to building... leveling Germany didn't even really make it easier.

    I would add some changes to the command and communication systems to the success. I guess there is more direct talk
    between the recon and the strike assets now.

    There is nothing like a conflict to improve communication and cooperation between forces... the conflict in 2008 in South Ossetia led to a lot more cooperation and communication between the Naval Infantry and the VDV which led to joint training and cooperation.

    So what if Russia had to face the full NATO air force? Could they prevent air dominance from being established with their multilayers AD system? Can the USA take out their AD radars?

    HATOs attack and defence relies on air power so any attrition to HATO air power does double damage to their ability to attack and to defend... in a conflict you talk about the USAs ability to take out AD radars, but what about their ability to operate from motorways with their fragile aircraft they have to walk runways for every day so they don't suck up some gravel or paper and destroy their engines?

    How are HATO defences going to stop Russian hypersonic and cruise missiles with cluster warheads cratering their runways and destroying their hangars?

    How long can their aircraft stay airborne?

    BUT can Russia protect its artillery against NATO, and its ammo stores etc.

    How will HATO defeat Russias air defences and its air force? How long will HATO helicopters operate in the face of the quality of Russian MANPADS and short range air defence systems including anti tank guided missiles and TOR and Pantsir systems. The new Kornet systems can kill point targets at 10km with HE warhead that is nor IR or radar guided...

    Yet somehow materiel continues to move with little difficulty.

    And in 10 years time when this conflict might be over we will read stories about all the cunning tricks they used to hide military equipment amongst civilian stuff like things hidden amongst farm machinery for the harvest which the Russians have not attacked, so of course they will be smuggling stuff that way, and of course things like red cross vehicles used to transfer ammo and troops and weapons... things which when revealed will be used to justify attacks on such things which can then be trotted out by the western media as a war crime... they destroyed a red cross ambulance... that it was filled with 155mm artillery shells is not mentioned in the report of course.

    There will be millions of vehicles travelling back and forth delivering food and all sorts of other normal stuff to the people living in this part of the country... it would be easy to take the food out of that truck container and fill it with ammo or weapons or missiles or mines... you can take any gun apart and ship it somewhere and assemble it again... it is not hard.

    The Orcs are nazi bastards but they are not stupid... and even if they were stupid... they are being helped by experts at smuggling weapons and keeping wars going forever... the Imperial west.

    And why didnt the russian motor rifle and vdvd units coordinate operationally with wagner before soledar?

    Wagner are a private company likely hired by either Russians or new Russians, why would they coordinate with them? They have different job descriptions... and what is the legality of any military force cooperating with mercenaries of any kind?

    There is a war going on and the stakes couldnt be any higher and what these idiot bureaurocrats do? Fight among themselves.

    That is the picture some here are trying to paint... wonder why...

    Let's not full yourself FP, there's plenty targets among Russian bureaucracy to shit on.

    Funny you word it like that because to shit on someone you first have to put yourself above them... and the problem of putting yourself above someone else is that everyone can see you are an arse hole.


    Well it was real and it made it to CNN. It starts a 1:20 in. But before that, they talk about how Russia is kidnapping children and sending them to camps!

    43 camps.... strangely similar to the 40 odd bioweapons labs the US had in the Ukraine before this all kicked off...

    Not so easy, NATO airfields have hardened shelters, so it would require almost a direct hit on each shelter to take them out.

    HATO fighters and aircraft are horribly vulnerable to FOD ingestion so their runways and control towers would be primary targets... and the same runway penetrating submunitons would also penetrate hardened aircraft shelters too.

    First job will be to take out Russias air defence radars, I have NO IDEA how this will go and neither do you.

    We can guess though can't we... when one side has bugger all major SAMs and the other has thousands of major SAMs and small SAMs to defend those major SAMs from standoff missile attack.... I mean lets take a look at the current conflict and ask who will run out of SAMs first while defending their infrastructure...

    Which side has missiles that can reach and touch despite any defence system... missile or aircraft... which is missile too...

    If the US cannot disable the radars, or successfully spoof or jam them, then they will be swatted out of the sky. If NATO cannot establish air dominance then their fighting system starts to fall apart. If they can establish air dominance, it depends on how many planes they still have, how much they have expended.

    Russian radars are fully mobile and fully defended.... the very idea that HATO could destroy them all is a joke... many are even mobile so even getting the coordinates is not enough.

    The Ukrainian air defence systems are still operating and are a threat despite their IADS network being destroyed and that is what HATO will have to deal with against Russia and worse because I rather doubt they have the numbers to defeat Russias IADS even a little bit.

    Even with no IADS a TOR and a Pantsir is a deadly system on its own... a battery could wipe out huge numbers of air launched missiles and the aircraft carrying those missiles... HATO has more planes than Russia has planes, but Russia has more SAMs than HATO has missiles and planes combined and still with tens of thousands still left... and it is only getting worse.

    Soon Pine will be introduced... western helicopters will be scrap metal...

    The Kiev regime will suffer a catastrophic PR loss when the city finally falls and Russian troops push on deeper into occupied territory.

    Will they though?

    Look at experience with Snake Island and other areas they lost, they just pretended it didn't matter... unless they got it back and then it was important... note recent attacks on Snake island doing damage presumably they were setting up to mount attacks from there on Crimea perhaps?

    They will be feathering their nests in the west ready to run for the hills if anything dramatic happens and I suspect a collapse will be quick and complete and the result will be chaos in Kiev as the dust rises over western funded and supported officials suddenly needing to leave the country on important business... the business of personal survival and self preservation and taking with them as much ill gotten gains as they can carry... and those left behind are going to have to deal with the consequences but what reason will they have to continue this pointless fight against Russia... when the foreign puppets leave why are Ukrainians fighting again?

    Or it might just continue for a decade... up to the Ukrainian people of course... when they say enough is enough.

    Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO, galicije83, Eugenio Argentina and like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 4557
    Points : 4549
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:10 am

    Will they though?

    Yes, I think they will, worse than the destruction of Azov and the liberation of Mariupol, but you are correct that the regime (and their Western backers) will do their best to ignore the blood spurting from their collective neck wound.  Razz

    At the end of the day, it matters not what the corrupt looters in Kiev choose to admit or choose to deny.  Russia will advance and continue to grind these monkeys into steaming piles of dogfood.

    GarryB, d_taddei2, kvs, Broski, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    Tolstoy
    Tolstoy


    Posts : 227
    Points : 221
    Join date : 2015-07-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Tolstoy Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:52 am

    Today morning, FSB raided a "gay bar" on the outskirts of Moscow ( have placed a red arrow on the map to show the location) and arrested a few anti war protestors. Quite a few of them were foreigners including Estonians.

    Those of you who are from Moscow probably already know that previously these bars operated near Sokolniki Park. Now they have shifted their operations to the outskirts.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Fsb10

    GarryB, Firebird, Werewolf, xeno, Big_Gazza, kvs, owais.usmani and like this post

    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 2683
    Points : 2691
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  nomadski Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:32 am


    The idea of conventional battle of any sort between Russia and NATO , any pontificating or hypothesis is useless and waste of time . Any war between these blocks will be nuclear , within the first few hours . Therefore Russia can plan around this reality . This means any equipment not useful for nuclear war , should be used in Ukraine . And any equipment used for nuclear war should be saved for NATO . This probably means using those aircraft in Ukraine , that do not carry nukes . Any planning for conventional war against NATO , should be scrapped .

    I have said before , destroy Roads near Polish border . Destroy Rail and Bridges over Dnieper . Any civilian supply can go by Sea ( inspected by Russia ) or go by Road through Belorussia ( inspected by Belorussia ) . Missiles and Aircraft can destroy Roads and Bridges . Nazis will not negotiate , no point pandering to them . Minsk was a perfect opportunity for peace , yet it was rejected , because the Nazis need war to survive in power . So end the war quickly . End them quickly .

    The West is hypnotized by it's recent successes in ME , when they killed thousands and millions , without any retaliation against their territory . They are sleep walking into war with Russia . They have attacked Russia and escalated , and will continue blindly into nuclear war . They need to be woken up . Proportional response now will have a deterrence value , if not directly then indirectly , especially brandishing nuclear weapons by live atmospheric test . These measures will most likely stop the blind march to apocalypse .

    kvs likes this post

    Backman
    Backman


    Posts : 2600
    Points : 2612
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Backman Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:33 am

    All the calls to mass produce drones seem to have been answered.

    d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, Hole, Broski, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    billybatts91
    billybatts91


    Posts : 662
    Points : 664
    Join date : 2022-02-23

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  billybatts91 Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:05 am

    They say Russia is falling apart.......meanwhile in America...

    GarryB, d_taddei2, par far, Big_Gazza, zepia, thegopnik, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    Kiko
    Kiko


    Posts : 2760
    Points : 2802
    Join date : 2020-11-11
    Age : 75
    Location : Brasilia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Kiko Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:06 am

    Maria Vladimirovna, will you marry me? (Those impossible dreams...)
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 38522
    Points : 39022
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:42 am

    All the calls to mass produce drones seem to have been answered.

    Dude... they are producing Iranian drones in a factory in Russia... it means they planned to make drones at least 3 years ago to build a bloody factory and have it already producing drones for the middle of last year...

    Why are western people so stupid.... no drone videos at the start of the conflict except video from drones of artillery strikes and all of a sudden Russia has no drones and then no suicide drones and then we see footage of them operating after most of the Orc air defences are knocked out and all of a sudden we are smart and they finally listened to our advice... we are smart and they are dumb.

    The Turkish drone is not a bad drone but works best in peace time or against enemies that don't have decent air defence support... that is the same for all drones... you will notice the US didn't even consider sending in their big expensive drones to directly help their nazi allies because they knew they would be easily and quickly shot down.

    Drones are amazing... but only for very specific niche roles... they are often not much better than ATGMs in most cases, but they have their uses.

    d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, Broski, Belisarius and billybatts91 like this post

    billybatts91
    billybatts91


    Posts : 662
    Points : 664
    Join date : 2022-02-23

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  billybatts91 Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:19 am



    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6320
    Points : 6412
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  ALAMO Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:32 am

    Post  mnztr Today at 5:04 am
    Not so easy, NATO airfields have hardened shelters,


    Oh please continue, the struggle for the pole position of lacking clue is straight ahead.
    Ever been to "nato airfield"?

    GarryB, kvs, Hole, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  flamming_python Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:33 am

    The more that the Nazi regime wants to keep Bahkmut/Artemovsk, the more the Russians need to take it from them. Twisted Evil

    The Kiev regime will suffer a catastrophic PR loss when the city finally falls and Russian troops push on deeper into occupied territory. So much pain and humiliation is coming their way... and it will help them toughen up their ring-pieces for the veritable shitstorm of failure that they will suffer as this thing carries on to its logical conclusion. Razz

    Trying to 'break' enemy morale with grand, risky offensives and stunts is what the Kiev regime has been doing. Whether the disastrous attempts to drive into Kherson again and again throughout the summer, the zerg-rush into the Kherson region, amphibious operations against Snake Island, the constant attempts to capture the Zaporozhie NPP by landing commandos.
    Most of those failed, and all of them incurred more casualties that could possibly be justifiable at least without achieving their real goal - destroying Russian confidence in their political and military leadership (although the doomers on the Russian side certainly made a good effort in that regard).

    Conversely the biggest Kiev successes in this regard is when they found ways to try and do that, only without necessitating monstrous sacrifices of men and armaments on their part. Such as the drone strikes on Engels.

    In the same manner, Russia will also gain rather nothing from emulating Ukrainian desperation to 'break morale' or elicit a 'decisive battle', if doing so means taking more casualties than it can be comfortable with and risk incurring push-back from society. This is a war of attrition, and not only with the Ukraine as should be obvious.
    The promised shocker of taking Bakhmut is overblown and risks being ephemeral. If Russia could have done so quickly say 2 months ago, then the effect would be greater, but by now the Ukrainian authorities have stepped back from their hardline stance on it and have been softening the coming blow for their own population slowly by promising to instead defend it for as long as possible and never willingly surrender it.
    Bakhmut will be taken by Russian forces regardless, no matter whether this month or in 3, there is no reason to chase after a promised critical morale-blow to the Ukrainians by rushing the job and risking getting many experienced Russian/Wagner soldiers killed.

    Russia will conversely gain everything by, much like the sparse few successful Ukrainian examples of such - instead electing to drain Ukrainian resources and morale by whatever manner that doesn't risk their own men.
    The same artillery and precision strikes are a good one, as Russia has been conducting on Bakhmut to date.

    The greatest Ukrainian weakness is their predictability. Kiev can be counted on to send more and more manpower and equipment to hold whatever part of the front-line is under attack. The initiative is on the Russian side; Russia can attack any part of the front-line it wants and force Kiev to reallocate resources to there, which Russia can then target along the way. It's a slow, methodical way to win the war but it's one that is working, and that will continue to work, and honestly little else is required. If the Damocles sword of NATO intervention wasn't hanging over the head of this conflict then Russia could try being more bold, but given that it is - it has to proceed cautiously and minimize its own casualties.

    GarryB, franco, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO, JohninMK and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6320
    Points : 6412
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  ALAMO Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:00 am

    This is a war of attrition, and not only with the Ukraine as should be obvious.

    I have a funny thought for that matter.
    It is clear already that we are talking about war of civilisations. No matter how we dress it up.
    The hegemony of westerners, the "wealthy billion" is fading away in the front of our eyes.
    All the myths are falling. The ones they have build for generations with targeted propaganda.
    Everybody with a sane view knows already that the westerners are thugs, and thieves and didn't develop a mentality from slavery and colonial times by an inch.
    Only learned how to cover that better.
    Let's say China knows, that if Russia falls, it will be next on the list.
    As easy as that, no big global strategic thinking is needed to realize that. It is crystal clear.
    So let's play a game.
    What if things will develop, and China will start using Russkie the way that ze Wezt is using Ukrs now?
    Just pump the endless supply of arms, in an infinite stream of trains running BAM 24/7.
    Assisted by the North Korea with waste ammo warehouses and militarized industry.
    Both are supplied by the endless stream of Russian raw materials and energy.
    We all realize that the whole west can't match a production output of Russian MIC.
    The thing so much ridiculous at the first look, that nobody would even dare to use it as an argument a year ago.
    Nobody.
    Realizing the fact, that a billion people economic block consisting of the most "developed" countries like US and the EU cant match the 150 mln population Russia that is 7th global economy.
    It is insane.

    Now, add Chinese and NK production lines to that.
    Add Iranian stocks of weapons, drones, and ammo - they realize that would be next after crushing Russia, too.

    What is coming out from that perspective?

    Ouch.

    GarryB, franco, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, JohninMK and like this post

    Sujoy
    Sujoy


    Posts : 2288
    Points : 2448
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India || भारत

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Sujoy Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:21 am

    Pakistan has entered into an agreement with Poland for the supply of arms and ammunition to Ukraine.

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/pakistan-polish-entities-ink-mou-for-supply-of-defence-equipment-to-ukraine/articleshow/97996207.cms

    kvs and owais.usmani like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14338
    Points : 14473
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  JohninMK Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:13 am

    I'm sure that video didn't mean to include all it did Laughing

    GarryB, kvs, owais.usmani, Mir and Belisarius like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10377
    Points : 10357
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Hole Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:17 am

    “There are 10,000 Russian troops massed on the other side of the border with Sumy. It’s the largest concentration there has ever been here” — The Times, citing senior lieutenant Andrei Hulakov He also claims that they built “field hospitals”
    Wow, a senior lieutenant as source. I hope the story was confirmed by some sergeant.

    GarryB, flamming_python, Mir, Belisarius and ucmvulcan like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6320
    Points : 6412
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  ALAMO Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:18 am

    Cmn' ...
    You are just jealous that can't afford a BPM for weekly shopping!

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Zrzut_49

    GarryB, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, Hole, Broski, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    billybatts91
    billybatts91


    Posts : 662
    Points : 664
    Join date : 2022-02-23

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  billybatts91 Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:33 am

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    billybatts91
    billybatts91


    Posts : 662
    Points : 664
    Join date : 2022-02-23

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  billybatts91 Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:51 am

    GarryB, xeno, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14338
    Points : 14473
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  JohninMK Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:01 am

    How to keep your friends supporting you Laughing

    Arthur Morgan
    @ArthurM40330824
    ·
    5h
    Zaluzhny said that #Ukraine’s trust in #Europe has its limits, and Kiev will soon send an audit team to the #EU countries to find out if they are “squeezing” and hiding away weapons so important for Ukraine.

    First they beg then they threaten

    GarryB, flamming_python, Werewolf, d_taddei2, par far, Big_Gazza, kvs and like this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 30 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:40 pm