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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:05 pm

    I don't really buy the civilian air traffic theory even if that was true, the drone still would have had to fly a very long time.

    in the US when it comes to sensitive or highly important bases, there are no fly zones. For miles, any aircraft that enters that restricted airspace will get a jet sent after them.

    While no one has jets in the air 24/7 you do have pilots on rotation on standby 24/7 to get in the air in minutes.

    Your telling me the Russians over one of their most important bases did not restrict air travel? or even have intercepters on standby?. That's just incompetence. The first time you can argue was just Ukraine being clever the second time was just pure ignorance on the Russian end.

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    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:23 pm

    I have expanded my previous drafts. I stayed up until 3 AM writing this, completing the Ukrainian order of battle and compiling all reports on the battle of Artemovsk, and I just revised it and added a chapter of observations and conclusions at the end.

    Have a read, it will be worth your time. If you follow my journal, I also highly recommend to read the comments section, a Spanish infantry officer that reads my blog told me that in his unit, the first thing they do in the morning before getting to work is discuss my latest entry in the officer mess, having the approval of those that have shoulder straps means something

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/12/27/la-batalla-por-artemovsk-ii/

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:38 pm

    Musk got it though.
    Musk is no american. Maybe that helps.  Very Happy

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:44 pm

    I don't really buy the civilian air traffic theory even if that was true, the drone still would have had to fly a very long time.

    in the US when it comes to sensitive or highly important bases, there are no fly zones. For miles, any aircraft that enters that restricted airspace will get a jet sent after them.

    While no one has jets in the air 24/7 you do have pilots on rotation on standby 24/7 to get in the air in minutes.

    Your telling me the Russians over one of their most important bases did not restrict air travel? or even have intercepters on standby?. That's just incompetence. The first time you can argue was just Ukraine being clever the second time was just pure ignorance on the Russian end.


    It was flying at a low altitude. NORAD will not detect such drones either no matter whether in a no-fly zone or otherwise; not if they're at low-readiness and are just relying on some ground radars. You need to have fighters and AWACS in the air if you want advanced warning. To some extent a radar like the S-300s flap-lid or clam-shell deployed on a mast can alleviate this. No need for aerostats with radars on them although that's not a bad idea either.

    I agree there was no excuse for not restricting whatever airspace had to be restricted after the first attacks to make sure they couldn't possibly be repeated.
    But really there should have been mast radars and fighters deployed that would have detected these drones ahead of time. And then shoot them down.

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    Post  franco Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:46 pm

    I have expanded my previous drafts. I stayed up until 3 AM writing this, completing the Ukrainian order of battle and compiling all reports on the battle of Artemovsk, and I just revised it and added a chapter of observations and conclusions at the end.

    Have a read, it will be worth your time. If you follow my journal, I also highly recommend to read the comments section, a Spanish infantry officer that reads my blog told me that in his unit, the first thing they do in the morning before getting to work is discuss my latest entry in the officer mess, having the approval of those that have shoulder straps means something

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/12/27/la-batalla-por-artemovsk-ii/


    That is a lot of work my friend.

    I do believe the 100th brigade (DPR) is fighting further to the west. They are the unit trying to flank Avdiivk from the east side. The 7th brigade (LPR) was fighting in the Kodema area south of Artemovsk. And it is the 136th Russian motor rifle brigade operating there. The last I heard there was a 138th MR Btg operating up in North Luhansk / Kharkov border area. The 3rd DPR brigade defends Gorlivka and is only involved in clearing the northern suburbs.

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    Post  Airbornewolf Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:04 pm

    some z updates:

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Photo_60

    Below 18+ movies are NSFW for heavy violence, dead troops.

    18+ Drone strikes on Ukrainian forces


    18+ Chechens clearing Soledar of Ukrainian troops


    MRLS Grad volley-fire on Ukrainian concentrated troops in the Zaporozhye Region
    Audio volume warning!


    RF news report on the Bakhmut front line


    archival footage of RF Marines in combat


    Got more on my channel, but i do not want to kill people's feed here.

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    Post  lancelot Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:21 pm

    By the way, what’s up with that armoured URAL? Makes no sense, there are already Ural VPK and Typhoons in various configurations for mass deployment, not to mention more sophisticated Kamaz ones. Are they have nothing better to do in Ufa?
    That Ural is 6x6. The Ural VPK is 4x4. As for the Typhoon beats me. There were rumors when the conflict started that it uses imported German crap in it and that production was stopped. Dunno if that is true. But what is certainly true is that it is likely way more expensive than the Ural.
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:27 pm

    Aerostats are superior to any mast antenna system, especially mobile ones. They can be lofted almost to any height limited by the weight
    and strength of the tether. Since they are tethered they do not blow away and require active positioning. A ground mast cannot give you
    detection ability near ground level at 100 km. Only EM leakage can be detected but that is not a given. Lofting an aerostat to 4-5 km gives
    you vastly superior detection range.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Aerostat_Radar_System

    I think we are seeing an administrative fail at Engels. They can deploy aerostats without any exposure of secrets to NATzO. Maybe Russia
    has lost the ability to produce such equipment but I would think it had it during the USSR period.



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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:45 pm

    Russia has the technology and capacity to produce aerostats, there are 1-2 factories with the required equipment and expertise from memory (I mean serious ones capable of transporting passengers and/or cargo), but simply slapping on a radar onto the side of a barrage balloon is not the way to go. It requires a design project, with bespoke mechanisms and solutions. It requires prototyping, trials and so on; and even then it would be an entirely new use-case for an aerostat that it's not necessarily possible to predict the issues with ahead of time.

    At a time of war such a project can be fast-tracked, but we're still talking about a year's worth of work here. Engels needs radar cover and long-range defenses though right now.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:15 pm

    MEDVEDEV: "Normal relations with the West can be forgotten for years, perhaps decades. Let's do without them until a new generation of reasonable politicians comes to power there... we will develop relations with the rest of the world."

    By the way, what’s up with that armoured URAL? 
    This is a standard truck model that is fitted with an armored troop cabin instead of a flat-bed and some armor around the front. This is in addition to all those MRAPish vehicles
    built by Ural and Kamaz or all those Patrul models or the new Z-STS.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Fk_lw010
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Fk_lwp10

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    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:28 pm

    Reportedly a new micro drone being used by Russians. You love to see it.

    https://twitter.com/ZaTritsa/status/1607807985824460800

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    psg
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    Post  psg Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:41 pm

    Well the quickest solution could be the construction of a metal framed tower and concrete base, with a mast mounted radar to be placed, fixed on top of it, structure only needs to be about 100ft high including the extendable radar mast height.

    But I totally agree there should be no civilian flights within at least 50km of the airbase. That will increase the effectiveness of the air defence system operating at the base.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:52 pm

    The simpliest is to move the aircraft to an airfield in Siberia. They need what ? 2h to come from Siberia to Ukro border to launch missiles.

    Why do they keep them so close to nato borders in the first place ?

    They also moved some very close to Finland in range of nato cruise missiles.

    They are ruled by dumb people. Showing muscles doesn't work and is useless. Only thing it achieved is attract ukro attacks.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:29 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Fk_07510
    Bakhmut hospital
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Fk_aqf10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Scree549
    A new suicide drone.

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    Post  Isos Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:11 pm

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:51 pm

    Translated from Russian FYI, MOD Summary Dec27:

    ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Intercept (Z)) (Open/Public TG link)

    Summary by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine (27 December 2022)

    The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue to conduct a special military operation.

    ◽ In the Kupyansk direction, artillery strikes on accumulations of enemy manpower and equipment near the Peschanoye settlement of the Luhansk People's Republic destroyed up to 30 Ukrainian servicemen, two armored combat vehicles and three vehicles.

    ◽ In the Krasno-Limansky direction, artillery fire struck units of the 11th Territorial Defense Brigade near the settlement of Torskoye in the Donetsk People's Republic. The enemy's losses in this direction during the day amounted to more than 40 Ukrainian servicemen, four armored fighting vehicles and two pickup trucks.

    ◽ In the Donetsk direction, units of the 79th Airborne Assault Brigade of the AFU were defeated during successful offensive actions. Up to 60 Ukrainian servicemen, three infantry fighting vehicles and seven vehicles were destroyed.

    ◽ In the South Donetsk direction, more than 70 Ukrainian servicemen, four armored combat vehicles and two pickup trucks were destroyed in the areas of Prechistovka and Uspenovka of the Donetsk People's Republic as a result of complex shelling of the enemy's units in the settlements.

    💥 Rocket troops and artillery hit the reserve command post of the 80th AFU Airborne Assault Brigade near Kramatorsk, Donetsk People's Republic, as well as 67 artillery units in firing positions, manpower and military equipment in 89 areas.

    💥 In the course of counter-battery warfare near the settlement of Netailovo, a firing position was uncovered and a US-made M777 artillery system was destroyed along with its crew, from which shelling of residential areas of Donetsk was carried out. Another M777 artillery system was destroyed near Preobrazhenka in Zaporizhzhia region. A Uragan multiple rocket launcher and two Grad multiple rocket launchers were destroyed near the settlements of Nevskoye in the Luhansk People's Republic and Seversk in the Donetsk People's Republic.

    💥 Two Ukrainian 2C1 Gvozdika self-propelled artillery systems were destroyed at firing positions near Krasnogorovka and Prechistovka settlements of the Donetsk People's Republic. Four Msta-B howitzers and two D-20 howitzers were destroyed in the districts of Kupyansk, Kharkiv Region, Velyka Novoselka, Donetsk People's Republic, and Novohrigorovka, Kherson Region.

    💥 Air defense forces shot down three Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the areas of Olhinka and Guselske in the Donetsk People's Republic, as well as Peremozhnoye in the Zaporizhzhia region.

    ◽ In addition, two Uragan multiple rocket launchers were intercepted near Kostogryzovo, Kherson region, as well as three US-made HARM anti-radar missiles near Debaltseve, Donetsk People's Republic.

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:52 pm

    Translated from Russian FYI, SITREP Dec27:

    ПЕРЕХВАТ (Z) (Intercept (Z)) (Open/Public TG link) (Situ map at Link)(JPG Image)

    🇺🇦 Soledar direction
    Situation as of 14:00 December 27, 2022

    Fighting continues in the vicinity of Bakhmut. "Wagnerians" together with the national militia of the LNR of Russia are carrying out an offensive in several areas.

    However, the Ukrainian command is transferring reserves to retain control over the territory, so it is too early to talk about Bakhmut's soonest liberation.

    🔻At the Bakhmut (Artemivsk) section, the Vagner PMC assault units squeezed the units of the 63rd AFU brigade from five platoon strongholds near Opytnoye on the Ivangrad side.

    ▪The eastern outskirts of Kleshcheyevka are engaged in fierce fighting for the village. Units of the 28th brigade are setting up minefields in the central part of the village.

    ▪Artillery crews of the 28th and 53rd brigades and the 57th infantry brigade of the AFU conduct barrage fire on the areas where the Russian Armed Forces are advancing. Mavic-3, Matrix-300 and Autel Evo II UAVs provide targeting.

    ▪On the southeastern outskirts of Bakhmut, Russian forces are gradually pushing through the defense of the Ukrainian garrison. Reinforcements and three tanks have been redeployed to the area of the 57th Infantry Division to assist and replenish it.

    In addition, the activity of formations of the 17th Tank Brigade from the Kherson direction was noted in Kramatorsk. Earlier, one of the battalions was spotted in the Limansk area.

    ▪The number of losses is increasing every day. Ukrainian formations are spreading information that fewer than 100 of the 800 mobilized men who arrived earlier are still alive.

    ▪From the Kharkiv region, a redeployment of forces from the terro-defense forces has begun - despite the formal relation to the TRO, the units are equipped with heavy equipment and air defense complexes. In Dnepropetrovsk oblast, the 56th infantry battalion is being re-staffed, which will be completed in January 2023.

    A training camp for mobilized citizens is being deployed at the Cherkasy firing range, and in Belozorie, southwest of the administrative center, the units of the 53rd mechanized brigade of the AFU that have been withdrawn from the combat zone are being re-staffed.

    🔻The Wagnerians continue advancing in several directions, systematically improving their tactical position. Currently, fighting is taking place in the vicinity of Razdolovka, Veseloye and on the eastern outskirts of Soledar from the direction of Bakhmutsky.

    ▪ Units of the 10th Mountain Assault Brigade and 46th Airmobile Brigade of the AFU are defending in nearly destroyed settlements, where there are no serious fortifications. Holding the villages is complicated by artillery and aviation fire of the Russian Armed Forces and problems with ammunition supply.

    ▪At the same time, assault groups of the 128th AFU OGR attempted to break through the advancing ranks of the Russian Armed Forces in the area of Stryapovka. As a result of the counterattack by Russian servicemen, the AFU lost control over four positions.

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    Post  Belisarius Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:30 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Img_2253
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Img_2254
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Img_2255

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    Post  Erk Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:42 pm



    Brian explaining some of the difficulties of taking Ukrainian dug in fortifications.

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    Post  Regular Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:57 pm

    Stop posting Ukrainian footage as Russian

    Seen at least 3-4 rebrandings recently. Not hard to check even for idiot like me
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Scree549
    Old video posted first on Ukrainian TG, hence why the original link was blurred, self-made drone, like smaller drones Ukrainian Omega unit uses from July

    https://t.co/4GzGczkPi0

    Same as those dead bodies posted near by MTLB in Bakhmut were all Wagner, not Ukrainian. Posted from Ukrainian drone footage where they shell them and drop bomblets for days. It’s self own to use enemy’s material like that
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:25 am

    Such mini-suicide drones on the front are bad news regardless of who introduces them

    Russia needs to get some EW systems in support to jam this crap, except for the frequencies used by its own drones, changed frequently, and employed at certain time intervals. Else it should be a sea of intense static.
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    Post  zorobabel Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:29 am

    @Regular, sorry for posting that. It was from a source I consider trustworthy.

    Did anyone post the large KIA in Bakhmut and say those were Ukrainian? I posted the footage the day it came out and said those were Russian KIA.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:23 am

    Do the captured industrial capacities in the Donbass have any significant positive effects on the economy in Russia?

    Denying resources to Kiev is useful, but taking territory from Kiev reduces its amount of cannon fodder they can conscript and send to their deaths and also increases the number of potential friendly soldiers that Russia can use against Kiev to save their people and land.

    Industrial capacity will be at a very low point till Russia gets a chance to go in there and fix things up and there is no point doing that till it is out of artillery range or counter attack range.

    I don't really buy the civilian air traffic theory even if that was true, the drone still would have had to fly a very long time.

    A radar contact, likely using a civilian signal, flying in a civilian aircraft corridor could fly for very long periods without drawing attention to itself...

    in the US when it comes to sensitive or highly important bases, there are no fly zones. For miles, any aircraft that enters that restricted airspace will get a jet sent after them.

    Well it is likely that the drone pretending to be a civilian aircraft might approach a civilian airstrip and descend and then turn off its radar emitter that civilian aircraft use to appear on radar displays to make them easier to track and monitor so the military radars might assume they landed and then fly at very low altitude and very low speed following things that provide cover like down a road through a forest with trees on either side to conceal the drone until it gets much closer...

    No doubt the Orcs will be using HATO assets to determine where radar and air defence units are located around the airfield and monitoring their emissions and timings would allow them to formulate an approach plan with the best chance of getting through... I would expect HATO could do that... the Houthies managed to do that to Saudi Arabia several times.

    Obviously it is easier with the weaker AD systems the Saudis had... but Russian AD is primarily intended to deal with mass attacks, not suicide individual pin prick attacks.

    Your telling me the Russians over one of their most important bases did not restrict air travel? or even have intercepters on standby?. That's just incompetence. The first time you can argue was just Ukraine being clever the second time was just pure ignorance on the Russian end.

    No one said air travel was not restricted over the Russian base, and interceptors would not be very useful against such drones... unless they were Mi-28NMs which have an anti drone role.

    Incompetence like flying a hijacked civilian airliner into the Pentagon?

    The core of the US military?

    No need for aerostats with radars on them although that's not a bad idea either.

    For a fixed base the size of such a base it is cheap and persistent and not complex or difficult...

    But really there should have been mast radars and fighters deployed that would have detected these drones ahead of time. And then shoot them down.

    To be fair they did shoot them down, which is not something you can say for US Air defence during 11/9, but I appreciate that shooting them down further away from their target would be better.

    Interestingly that photonic radar technology gives a visible image of the target rather than a radar pattern so you could likely identify drones as opposed to civilian aircraft and helicopters fairly easily...

    They are also working on improved LIDAR technology for their drones, but it would work just as well for other platforms like tanks as part of an APS system or a perimeter defence system alerting AD.


    MRLS Grad volley-fire on Ukrainian concentrated troops in the Zaporozhye Region
    Audio volume warning!

    The launch is terrifying... the arrival.... HIMARs might be more accurate but against a field of 200 soldiers how many could 6 HIMARs rockets kill?

    This on the other hand... Grad means Hail doesn't it?

    That Ural is 6x6. The Ural VPK is 4x4. As for the Typhoon beats me.

    Typhoon was a programme for a light vehicle family in the weight class below Boomerang and was supposed to be a mix of 4x4 and 6x6 vehicles... several companies were making competing designs AFAIK... they would have zero foreign components to have any chance of success.

    I think we are seeing an administrative fail at Engels. They can deploy aerostats without any exposure of secrets to NATzO. Maybe Russia
    has lost the ability to produce such equipment but I would think it had it during the USSR period.

    They sold some to China, they use them mainly in mountain ranges to watch for threats trying to sneak in masked by terrain and also as a communications repeater with repeater antenna on board to allow radio communication in mountains to reach rather further than it could on its own.

    They also make systems that can be used on exercise or airshows or sporting events where helicopters are too expensive and drones could fly in to things and you don't need a moving shot from different directions... just a near static aerial shot will be good enough...

    http://rosaerosystems.com/

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:59 am

    Simple air defense would work at Engels

    No need for aerostats or other such tools

    It's the same story with Germyaschiy, Kuznetsov, Moskva, Kursk submarine, and so on

    Russian culture is arrogant to the point of leaving something undone, for the sake of proving it was unnecessary

    The result? Stupid fires that could be put out by a suppression system, a ship sunk that would have been saved if held away from the coast, a submarine which held faulty torpedoes because some officer decided it was not needed to conduct maintenance, some bombers left in an open field without air defense, because Ukros are too far away to strike the base...

    An invasion planned with 90,000 troops, because Ukros will rollover when they see the tanks coming

    And the list goes on and on, I know a guy who runs a shop, he's got acetylene torches, welders, paint, aluminum shavings from machines all in the same area

    When I ask him why he doesn't move it to safer locations, he says it's unnecessary as he's the only one who works there, and he knows how to maintain safety

    This is a cultural problem

    Any Russian has no problem admitting it

    The same reason why planes are left out in the open instead of using hangars

    Only a lazy fool would argue against it- but it's not worth beating the air for something that won't change, unless it's learned the hard way

    I'm sure wel see an S400 moved to engels within the week

    Too bad the 3 guys didn't get to benefit from it

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    thegopnik
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  thegopnik Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:13 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Screen11

    The distribution of subpoenas in Ukraine takes place in public places, since handing them to home addresses is ineffective - people do not open the doors - the head of the personnel service of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Roman Gorbach
    He also clarified that in most cases the summons is handed "to clarify the data", and not to the front
    Strange, and where is the mass patriotism and faith in the peremogue from the polls, since the people do not even open the door?

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 39 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

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