Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+68
Scorpius
Rasisuki Nebia
Eugenio Argentina
andalusia
Sprut-B
zare
Krepost
Sujoy
Odin of Ossetia
DerWolf
AMCXXL
Kiko
Podlodka77
VARGR198
0nillie0
Serberus
mr_hd
walle83
diabetus
Regular
psg
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
Airbornewolf
Karl Haushofer
TMA1
Pacense
bandit6
ArgentinaGuard
Big_Gazza
PhSt
Tolstoy
PapaDragon
Werewolf
caveat emptor
ludovicense
flamming_python
lyle6
Arkanghelsk
nomadski
famschopman
Firebird
lancelot
Dr.Snufflebug
mnztr
dionis
sepheronx
GarryB
thegopnik
Ispan
kvs
billybatts91
zorobabel
Broski
limb
Azi
Hole
Belisarius
Arrow
SeigSoloyvov
franco
Erk
ucmvulcan
Stealthflanker
JohninMK
SolidarityWithRussia
Isos
Ned86
ALAMO
72 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6614
    Points : 6704
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:03 am

    Patriot in itself is not the problem... the problem is that they don't have any smaller more numerous systems to place near it to defend it from attack so the first time is launches and reveals its position it will get hammered.
    Positioning S-400 without TOR or Pantsir or S-350 would have the same problems... even though that is a much more capable system.


    And that is the point.
    One of the best examples of Ukro misery was a footage of Lancet striking S-300 platforms, where there was some poor Chochol soul trying to take it out with MANPADS.
    There is nothing wrong with that, Russkie S-300/400 batteries are covered by MANPAD shooters either.
    But that is the one layer of defense only if something passed through Buk/S-350, and Pancyr/Tor coverage.
    And not the last one, as there are countermeasures of both electronic and physical nature at the end.
    What is the real issue is the fact, that NATO does not own such sophisticated and developed system, even if we combine literally everything we have.
    Some countries still might have some parts of the echeloned and layered defense, but none other than Muricans own the whole system.
    ANd while we can consider that THAAD/Patriot in the US is secured by the NASAMS, some mobile assets, and land based CIWS at the end, they still lack the range, sophistication and multiple target engagement possibilities that Russkie has.
    Stryker with Hellfires/Stingers and cal. 20mm is not even close to Tunguska, that is not even spotted other places than east of Russia for a while.
    Croatale the Froggs has is an equivalent of Osa. Nothing more. A bloody Osa ...
    This Engels base we talked about lately was covered by AT LEAST a full battalion S-400 set, and FOUR batteries of Tors. And that was only what I have spotted with my untrained eye, while I strongly suppose that some of the shadows and constructions there holds Pancyrs either. If there were 8 Tors that are 2-3x more costly than the Pancyrs, why there shouldn't be next 8 Pancyrs hidden around the perimeter? And why there shouldn't have been one-two more S-300/400 battalions located in a wider perimeter, covering the whole area that is actually well developed and industrialized?
    Eight newly modified Tors can engage 32 targets simultaneously and have 128 ready to fire missiles, to get a scale.

    GarryB, psg, Big_Gazza, kvs, JohninMK, zardof, Sprut-B and like this post

    avatar
    mr_hd


    Posts : 119
    Points : 121
    Join date : 2020-12-13

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  mr_hd Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:20 am

    Patriots are watershed moment for Ukraine. First it is not holy grail weapon that will solve all issues - there is not such thing on both sides and never will be. Rather it marks new phase, Ukraine endured and proved itself and will get advanced and powerful weapon that can secure much more airspace in a way that anything they had so far could. For example it can make even airspace in Donbas and Crimea not so secure for Russian birds and even on Russian side of the border, there will be big implications with its range and abilities.

    It will secure even more free delivery and flow of weapons to the country from the West.

    And it will not stop there, Ukraine will at the end of this conflict have many advanced western weapons, more than average NATO member - it is exactly scenario which gives Putin nightmares lol. He did not want NATO on its doors - now he will have NATO fortress and Putin's Russia will be walled out basically from Ukraine, Poland, Baltics, Scandinavia...

    Ukraine is dangerous because it proved to have immense ability to acquire and absorb new technologies with which they did not have previous experience with unheard speed. So far, they proved to be able to do things faster than anyone could imagine.

    And regarding situation on the front line- I see many members here are praising big losses Ukraine has in Bahkmut area which they surely have. However Russian side has higher since it is forced to attack - so on all those pictures shown here count that Russia has 2-3 more casualties compared to Ukraine. In my eyes Ukraine is doing exactly what it did so far - slowing down as much as possible Russian forces, grinding them and thinning them and once ready will crush them lol.
    We see they are destroying infrastructure around Melitopol and that they are even probing around Dnepr delta with their boats to come to cross to another side. They still have much more forces and Russia will have to work very hard, Russian ammunition far superior advantage is also melting steadily, it is not 12:1 anymore as it was in summer.

    In my eyes this conflict is lost already - Russia had limited time window to gain control there and have pro Moscow government installed, that goal is not achievable anymore. Ukraine will work systematically now against any Russian interest with quite big motivation and focus. Costs for Russia involvement are skyrocketing and will continue - in human, equipment costs but as well in prestige, economy and politics on global stage. The real weakness for Russia is that it does not have any safety doors out, so it is trapped in conflict that does not bring any big benefits.

    psg, Firebird, Werewolf, ludovicense, bitch_killer and Belisarius dislike this post

    0nillie0
    0nillie0


    Posts : 239
    Points : 241
    Join date : 2016-05-15
    Age : 37
    Location : Flanders, Belgium

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  0nillie0 Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:32 am

    In addition to whatever good news the user above felt like sharing (he is on my foe list but i can already guess the jist of it).

    Reuters announces that Russia is now forced to use 40 year old shells and Will again run out of Ammo early next year. Provided by the usual anonymous american source obviously.

    Guess the war wil soon be over!

    GarryB, flamming_python, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, Broski and Belisarius like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11289
    Points : 11259
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Isos Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:42 am

    Patriot will be very effective like the Buk-M1, because it wont need to turn on its radar almost all. NATO AWACS will allow it to stage ambushes, and russian aircraft will find it almost impossible to detect them because their radar's never turned on. BTW 0 NASAMS or crotale have been confirmed lost so far.

    Not at all. Buks telar can work on its own. Patriot has a central radar with launchers around it so much easier to spot. It is also far less mobile.

    Nato AWACS can't see anything at the border of Uk/Ru. It's too far. Awacs have range of 400km against 4th gen fighters. They can't help. Even Kiev sky is too far for them.

    It will have to use its radars to find and lock on the target even if it gets data from the US awacs anyway.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Screen30

    GarryB, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11289
    Points : 11259
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Isos Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:49 am

    GarryB, kvs, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14609
    Points : 14744
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:09 pm

    Garry "now they are handing out the family silverware and they are still losing."

    They run the risk that the World spots that it is EPNS (Electro Plate Nickel Silver) not even European standard let alone Sterling silver.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs and Belisarius like this post

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10615
    Points : 10593
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Hole Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:13 pm

    Will again run out of Ammo early next year.
    Because all the workers in the factories can´t remember how to produce ammo anymore.  Laughing
    Big success of western sanctions!  Laughing

    GarryB, kvs, ALAMO, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    billybatts91
    billybatts91


    Posts : 663
    Points : 665
    Join date : 2022-02-23

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  billybatts91 Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:14 pm


    GarryB, Big_Gazza, Broski and Belisarius like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14609
    Points : 14744
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:28 pm

    Ukraine Battle Map
    @ukraine_map
    ·
    3h
    The SAMP/T air defense system made by France 🇫🇷 and Italy 🇮🇹 will be given to Ukraine 🇺🇦

    SAMP/T is one of the best air defense systems in the world, a battery holds 4 launchers each with 8 Aster missiles that can fly up to 4.5 Mach, reach an altitude of 20km and a range of 120km

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Fj7AxPqX0AApy4d?format=jpg&name=small
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14609
    Points : 14744
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:32 pm

    MilitaryLand.net
    @Militarylandnet
    ·
    3h
    🗺️UA General Staff says during the last 24 hours, the Defense Forces repelled RU attacks in the vicinity of following settlements:
    - Hryanykivka (Kharkiv O.)
    - Novoselivske, Cervonopopivka, Serebryanske, Bilohorivka (Luhansk O.)
    1/2
    #UkraineRussiaWar
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11289
    Points : 11259
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Isos Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:40 pm

    Very good precision. Seems like it hit in the center of the building.



    GarryB and Hole like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11289
    Points : 11259
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Isos Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:41 pm

    Belisarius likes this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14609
    Points : 14744
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:53 pm

    Tony
    @Cyberspec1
    ·
    6h
    ⚡The US will transfer a Patriot system battery to Ukraine, - Associated Press

    It consists of a control center, radar and up to 8 launchers
    ❗ the information is unofficial, a statement from the White House is expected.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Fj5VsizUAAEzUA5?format=jpg&name=small


    Tony
    @Cyberspec1
    ·
    8h
    The United States wants to increase the number of its military personnel in Ukraine to strengthen control over the supply of weapons and help in the use of "critical" systems, NBC reported, citing three unnamed US officials.


    Incase you didn't get the memo, a lot of US and nato personnel are operating there under the guise of "volunteers" since the usual mantra of "advisors" is too high profile for the political climate.

    Ted 🐭
    @armourfan1989
    ·
    17h
    Replying to
    @mdfzeh
    Well, one upside is that Russia can eliminate a substancial portion of NATO's SF without NATO being able to cry about it in any meaningful way. Sending in the regulars is a no go, so its all the specops guys being send to the meat grinder.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14609
    Points : 14744
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:55 pm

    GarryB, psg, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole, Broski and like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14609
    Points : 14744
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:58 pm

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/visualizing-amount-us-taxpayer-dollars-flowing-ukraine-2022

    kvs and Erk like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11289
    Points : 11259
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Isos Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:24 pm

    Tor m2DT will be the best suited as winter is coming. More room for crew and very well adapted for snow terrain.

    GarryB and TMA1 like this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 4623
    Points : 4615
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:56 pm

    JohninMK wrote:SAMP/T is one of the best air defense systems in the world

    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Really? Why? Cuz the manufacturer or industry journalists receiving kickbacks have said so?  Razz

    These NATO morons think that an effective IADS can be cobbled together from small numbers of disparate SAM systems from different vendors?  Gods above these arrogant clowns are beyond belief  Razz  Razz  Razz

    GarryB, psg, flamming_python, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole, lyle6 and like this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11289
    Points : 11259
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Isos Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:05 pm

    SAMPT is the same as S-350 with active radar missiles and two sorts of missiles.

    They are very good systems. Aster with its pif paf technology is extremly good against manoeuvring targets.

    But stand alone systems are easy to destroy. Specially that SAMPT don't have ABM missiles so an iskander can take it out easily.

    GarryB and flamming_python like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6614
    Points : 6704
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:17 pm

    Post Hole Today at 12:13 pm

    Will again run out of Ammo early next year.
    Because all the workers in the factories can´t remember how to produce ammo anymore. Laughing
    Big success of western sanctions! Laughing


    They have run out of sulfur and steel either, so you know ... Laughing Laughing Laughing

    GarryB, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 803
    Points : 793
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Azi Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:31 pm

    mr_hd wrote:Patriots are watershed moment for Ukraine. First it is not holy grail weapon that will solve all issues - there is not such thing on both sides and never will be. Rather it marks new phase, Ukraine endured and proved itself and will get advanced and powerful weapon that can secure much more airspace in a way that anything they had so far could. For example it can make even airspace in Donbas and Crimea not so secure for Russian birds and even on Russian side of the border, there will be big implications with its range and abilities.

    It will secure even more free delivery and flow of weapons to the country from the West.

    And it will not stop there, Ukraine will at the end of this conflict have many advanced western weapons, more than average NATO member - it is exactly scenario which gives Putin nightmares lol. He did not want NATO on its doors - now he will have NATO fortress and Putin's Russia will be walled out basically from Ukraine, Poland, Baltics, Scandinavia...

    Ukraine is dangerous because it proved to have immense ability to acquire and absorb new technologies with which they did not have previous experience with unheard speed. So far, they proved to be able to do things faster than anyone could imagine.

    And regarding situation on the front line- I see many members here are praising big losses Ukraine has in Bahkmut area which they surely have. However Russian side has higher since it is forced to attack - so on all those pictures shown here count that Russia has 2-3 more casualties compared to Ukraine. In my eyes Ukraine is doing exactly what it did so far - slowing down as much as possible Russian forces, grinding them and thinning them and once ready will crush them lol.
    We see they are destroying infrastructure around Melitopol and that they are even probing around Dnepr delta with their boats to come to cross to another side. They still have much more forces and Russia will have to work very hard, Russian ammunition far superior advantage is also melting steadily, it is not 12:1 anymore as it was in summer.

    In my eyes this conflict is lost already - Russia had limited time window to gain control there and have pro Moscow government installed, that goal is not achievable anymore. Ukraine will work systematically now against any Russian interest with quite big motivation and focus. Costs for Russia involvement are skyrocketing and will continue - in human, equipment costs but as well in prestige, economy and politics on global stage. The real weakness for Russia is that it does not have any safety doors out, so it is trapped in conflict that does not bring any big benefits.
    What kind of bullshit I just witnessed here? pwnd Next time you better turn on your brain before you write! Nothing personal! angel

    So EVERYYY attacker suffers more losses than the defender? Em...Alexander the Great? Napoleon? The german Wehrmacht? They were all very aggressive in their tactics and suffered in the beginning only minimal losses. So I just call what you write bullshit.

    Yes it's true that the attacker should have superiority of 3:1 against the defender and then force multiplier apllies. In every battle is a turning point after the defender suffers more losses than the attacker...and yes traditional against an equal opponenet the ratio is 3:1.

    Now in concrete terms...Russia has about 10 times as much artillery on the front as Ukraine, Russian drones can operate relatively freely, the Russian Air Force can operate relatively unhindered in low-level flight on the front. and now Russia has enough foot soldiers on the front line too. And you're telling me that Ukraine suffers only minor losses and Russia a lot more? Put down the bag of cocaine!!!

    By the way, the 12:1 artillery advantage in summer was only partial on some front sections, so your statement is simply a lie.

    Another point is that Russia uses unified systems, which is much better from a logistic point of view. Ukraine uses a hodgepodge of systems. Maintenance and upkeep is a nightmare.

    Next nonsense is that Russia can not win the war anymore? How do you come to that conclusion??? If Russia had really serious problems with leadership, material and logistics, they would not have conquered big parts of the Ukraine within a few weeks.

    You don't see, or you don't want to see out of ideological blindness, that the war is being waged on several levels. One is the military level, the other is the economic level and another is the geopolitical level. Russia MUST prolong the war. Ukrainians, having been fed anti-Russian propaganda for years, decades in fact, would never accept a peace with Russia to their disadvantage. For them it's just win or die. Also and especially in the liberated areas, Ukrainian reluctance and resistance after a short and quick victory would be too high. As hard as it may sound...the Ukrainian resistance must be broken, helped by a cold winter without electricity, water and heat, plus the SBU's crimes against its own people. Vae victis! Next spring, not only flowers and plants will awaken again, but also the consciousness of Ukrainians. The whole war could have been prevented with Donbass as part of Ukraine, but Ukraine didn't want peace, it fed on fascism and nationalism.
    Next year Ukrainians will start hating their western masters. But first it is necessary to feed the meat grinder with Ukrainian meat a little more.

    Another point is the European side, which is currently driving itself to suicide. Why should they now supply to EU gas, coal and oil with price cap? The EU must also suffer this winter! And if this winter is still halfway okay for the EU, the EU cannot fill its storage facilities with all available LNG gas until winter 2023/24...it's impossible!

    If you've been following the thread for a bit, you'd know that I was critical in some aspects on the special ops, but you're just writing shit. I'll give you a good tip. Get the head out of your arse! Wish you a nice day Wink


    Last edited by Azi on Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, Werewolf, Broski and Belisarius like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3570
    Points : 3576
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:35 pm

    mrhd wrote:
    Patriots are watershed moment for Ukraine. First it is not holy grail weapon that will solve all issues - there is not such thing on both sides and never will be. Rather it marks new phase, Ukraine endured and proved itself and will get advanced and powerful weapon that can secure much more airspace in a way that anything they had so far could. For example it can make even airspace in Donbas and Crimea not so secure for Russian birds and even on Russian side of the border, there will be big implications with its range and abilities.

    It will secure even more free delivery and flow of weapons to the country from the West.

    And it will not stop there, Ukraine will at the end of this conflict have many advanced western weapons, more than average NATO member - it is exactly scenario which gives Putin nightmares lol. He did not want NATO on its doors - now he will have NATO fortress and Putin's Russia will be walled out basically from Ukraine, Poland, Baltics, Scandinavia...

    Ukraine is dangerous because it proved to have immense ability to acquire and absorb new technologies with which they did not have previous experience with unheard speed. So far, they proved to be able to do things faster than anyone could imagine.

    And regarding situation on the front line- I see many members here are praising big losses Ukraine has in Bahkmut area which they surely have. However Russian side has higher since it is forced to attack - so on all those pictures shown here count that Russia has 2-3 more casualties compared to Ukraine. In my eyes Ukraine is doing exactly what it did so far - slowing down as much as possible Russian forces, grinding them and thinning them and once ready will crush them lol.
    We see they are destroying infrastructure around Melitopol and that they are even probing around Dnepr delta with their boats to come to cross to another side. They still have much more forces and Russia will have to work very hard, Russian ammunition far superior advantage is also melting steadily, it is not 12:1 anymore as it was in summer.

    In my eyes this conflict is lost already - Russia had limited time window to gain control there and have pro Moscow government installed, that goal is not achievable anymore. Ukraine will work systematically now against any Russian interest with quite big motivation and focus. Costs for Russia involvement are skyrocketing and will continue - in human, equipment costs but as well in prestige, economy and politics on global stage. The real weakness for Russia is that it does not have any safety doors out, so it is trapped in conflict that does not bring any big benefits

    The problem is, Ukraine was already given IRIS-T and other such weapons, this is a case of too little too late... the energy infrastructure is already as they say, blacked out

    As for western weapons receipts, the peak was autumn of 2022, after that deliveries slid off due to the inability of western industry to replace those weapons that were shipped

    They have sent in weapons from their own reserves and are now faced with prospect of having to send the last weapons they refrained from sending, old fighters and tanks

    Tanks IMO would make the least difference in the east due to terrain, leopards would bog down in the mud there and the river systems also deny the opportunity for heavy tanks to advance

    As for fighters, I would not want to be a pilot getting shot down from 250km world record range -

    The most Ukraine can do, is continue to depopulate its country, making it easier for Russia to escalate its own denazification campaign, doing exactly as I advertised since Z day:

    To bomb Ukraine into oblivion, and this is the reason for patriot transfer, the west must show it does something before the inevitable destruction of Ukraine, which we are arriving to shortly

    As for Putins nightmare, it seems NATO itself cannot decide to bring itself to Finland and Sweden, let alone Ukraine... or is that Erdogan?

    In any case NATO has a member with serious disputes with Greece as well another NATO member

    I think serious concessions have to be made in order to ever realize Putins nightmare

    Maybe EU will have to finally accept Turks, because he's not going to give them something so juicy without something in return, and some jailed kurds won't cut it

    For NATO accession, Turks must receive something big, be it EU accession, monopoly over gas sales, or some ruling decision over territorial disputes

    Until then, it's not a good situation for Putin, but he can have his cake and eat it too, at least for now
    avatar
    Azi


    Posts : 803
    Points : 793
    Join date : 2016-04-05

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Azi Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:39 pm

    Tony
    @Cyberspec1
    ·
    8h
    The United States wants to increase the number of its military personnel in Ukraine to strengthen control over the supply of weapons and help in the use of "critical" systems, NBC reported, citing three unnamed US officials.
    If someone haven't checked it yet, nobody can help him ;D

    NATO directly is waging war against Russia. I hope such goals are prioritized Twisted Evil
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  flamming_python Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:48 pm

    mr_hd wrote:Patriots are watershed moment for Ukraine. First it is not holy grail weapon that will solve all issues - there is not such thing on both sides and never will be. Rather it marks new phase, Ukraine endured and proved itself and will get advanced and powerful weapon that can secure much more airspace in a way that anything they had so far could. For example it can make even airspace in Donbas and Crimea not so secure for Russian birds and even on Russian side of the border, there will be big implications with its range and abilities.

    It will secure even more free delivery and flow of weapons to the country from the West.

    And it will not stop there, Ukraine will at the end of this conflict have many advanced western weapons, more than average NATO member - it is exactly scenario which gives Putin nightmares lol. He did not want NATO on its doors - now he will have NATO fortress and Putin's Russia will be walled out basically from Ukraine, Poland, Baltics, Scandinavia...

    Ukraine is dangerous because it proved to have immense ability to acquire and absorb new technologies with which they did not have previous experience with unheard speed. So far, they proved to be able to do things faster than anyone could imagine.

    And regarding situation on the front line- I see many members here are praising big losses Ukraine has in Bahkmut area which they surely have. However Russian side has higher since it is forced to attack - so on all those pictures shown here count that Russia has 2-3 more casualties compared to Ukraine. In my eyes Ukraine is doing exactly what it did so far - slowing down as much as possible Russian forces, grinding them and thinning them and once ready will crush them lol.
    We see they are destroying infrastructure around Melitopol and that they are even probing around Dnepr delta with their boats to come to cross to another side. They still have much more forces and Russia will have to work very hard, Russian ammunition far superior advantage is also melting steadily, it is not 12:1 anymore as it was in summer.

    In my eyes this conflict is lost already - Russia had limited time window to gain control there and have pro Moscow government installed, that goal is not achievable anymore. Ukraine will work systematically now against any Russian interest with quite big motivation and focus. Costs for Russia involvement are skyrocketing and will continue - in human, equipment costs but as well in prestige, economy and politics on global stage. The real weakness for Russia is that it does not have any safety doors out, so it is trapped in conflict that does not bring any big benefits.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Image-10

    kvs, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14609
    Points : 14744
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  JohninMK Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:57 pm

    Ukraine Weapons Tracker
    @UAWeapons
    ·
    49m
    Previously unseen in #Ukraine, a 🇧🇬 Bulgarian PG-7VT tandem charge HEAT projectile was spotted with Ukrainian Special Forces.

    This is analogous to the Soviet PG-7VR and is designed for use against vehicles with ERA (Explosive Reactive Armour), as is widely used on Russian tanks.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Fj8K84aXoAEA4jb?format=jpg&name=small

    Elena Evdokimova
    @elenaevdokimov7
    ·
    1h
    Germany, reportedly, confirmed provision of 24 new self-propelled howitzers to 🇺🇦- Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, a head of the Bundestag Defense Committee.
    In the near future, Germany will also reportedly transfer six or seven Gepards to 🇺🇦


    Last edited by JohninMK on Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
    billybatts91
    billybatts91


    Posts : 663
    Points : 665
    Join date : 2022-02-23

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  billybatts91 Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:01 pm


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34 - Page 14 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #34

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:31 pm