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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:50 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:Papadragon, I assume you have Telegram installed, so don't fart about how the medium is "too long"...
    I do not use Telegram because I do not want to feed it my smartphone number. Other people might have similar concerns. There is no good reason for this requirement by Telegram, Facebook, WhatsApp, Google, etc except for data harvesting including personal identification.

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    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:56 am

    OK, but I use Telegram.
    Lancelot, you might as well worry about using Google in the first place. thumbsup
    No problem, then I'll just post the time the link was posted on Telegram and if it's in a shorter format then I'll post it here.


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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:25 am

    thegopnik wrote:have some laughs.

    Yeah, that's a good one Laughing Laughing
    But pay attention to one detail.
    A guy is an artilleryman.
    Not taking them prisoner was claimed for a while, and people seem to believe in that.
    It is utter bullshit as you see.

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:34 am

    There is a video with the mobilized training with T-14 Armata. Does it mean we'll see it in combat soon?
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:24 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:There is a video with the mobilized training with T-14 Armata. Does it mean we'll see it in combat soon?


    It's not worth asking the forum members, you have to ask the Russian MOD.
    Russians can be crazy sometimes, but I don't want them to be that crazy.
    Although tank T-14 is technologically ahead of other tanks, that tank can also be destroyed - it's a tank, not a spaceship.
    I only learned on this forum that the Rafale is a spaceship and the HIMARS was sent by Darth Vader himself, while everything else is peasant military equipment.

    And while deploying Su-57s ONLY from a safe distance makes sense, using T-14s makes no sense at all.
    I'm sure that the 2S35 "Koalitsiya-SV" howitzers were definitely used, but there are no public announcements about this and the use of those howitzers will only be announced later - I am convinced. The Russians know how to surprise, but I wouldn't like them to do that with the T-14.


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Parkpa10
    This is the T-72A and basically this tank has been upgraded over time. Later modifications get an improved gun, ERA, new aiming equipment, engines, but the concept of the tank T-72 "Ural" is over 50 years old. That's what I say "it's hard to make a girl out of a grandma". The same applies to Leopard-2 (crap), Abrams, etc..Later modifications came and by order of Yeltsin the improved variant (object 188) was renamed to T-90. Later comes a tank variant with a turret welded from sections and that tank is the T-90A (object 188A1) and the last variant is the T-90M (object 188M).

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Vdayre10
    This is a tank, radically new and has no points of contact with the T-72/80/90 tank, except that both have tracks and a 125 mm gun. It is not worth the risk to send this tank to Ukroshitstan.
    This is what Russia should NEVER use ; MiG-31 (it was never in Western hands and should remain so), Su-57 and T-14. The same applies to the Tu-160, it should only be used for striking from a distance. The Russians have cleverly used the S-300V4, S-350, S-400 systems.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:46 am

    lancelot wrote:
    ucmvulcan wrote:... Russia has tens of thousands and a fairly large military industrial capacity, I'd be very surprised if Russia ran out of missiles any time in my lifetime.  Like I said, our media lives in fantasy land:

    Lets see:

    March, Russia is out of rockets
    April, Russians seen updating T-72s, they are out of tanks (funny, I remember hearing of the tens of thousands of tanks parked in boneyards and tank parts all across Russia from the Cold War)
    May, Russia is out of money as sanctions. . . .
    June, Russians out of men
    July, Russia is out of oil, yes, John McCain's gas station with nuclear weapons is out of gas). No seriously, why are you laughing? This was on American news media
    August, Russia may still have tanks but their main problem is going to be rounds and barrels
    September, Russia is out of airplanes and drones
    ...
    Russia is building Su-34, Su-30, Su-35, airplanes faster than they are losing them. The main issue is the helicopters and the Su-25.
    The Su-34 also needs to gets its sensors upgraded so it can detect and track ground targets from larger distances. A new generation of surface attack missiles needs to be produced as well. Had they done that then pilots would not need to do those low altitude passes with iron bombs as much and risk their aircraft.

    Low-altitude attack runs minimize the threat of radar detection and engagement by anti-air missile systems

    Low-passes with iron bombs make perfect sense, and would be one of the quickest way to take out some tactical target outside the range of artillery.
    Cruise missiles need a precise location and can't be used against anything with mobility, while suicide drones might not have the range or the payload.

    Those surface attack missiles, in order to replace low-pass iron bomb attacks, would need to have the ability to be launched at very low altitudes, while combining that with high-speed, an ability to loiter for a little while over the final destination to identify targets, and a respectable payload.
    Basically you need a drone not a missile. Until someone designs one with those characteristics, they'll just continue to use fighter and fighter-bombers with iron bombs.

    I think the whole rationale of Russia running out of cruise missiles and fuel is based on poor Western intelligence. And the worst thing is these Western politicians still have not learned after all this time and continue saying the same bullshit. I heard Ukraine claiming Russia had limited stocks of cruise missiles. And the EU claiming Russia would run out of diesel. This was based on facts. Ukraine used to produce the engines for the cruise missiles, and the catalyst used to refine diesel used to be imported from the EU. They thought with the sanctions they could cut Russia access to these things. But the thing is Russia produced its own substitutes. Both for the cruise missile engines and the catalyst material. So Western intel were obviously wrong on both counts but they continue in denial.

    As for the "chips out of washing machines" I think this was a claim made by someone at ASML which spun out of all proportion. The person from ASML was basically saying the chips the policians think they can ban Russia access to to make these weapon systems are so common you can find them in cheap consumer products like washing machines and that it is pointless to try to ban sales of them. They can be easily smuggled since they are produced in the many millions and you can divert some without anyone noticing. You can easily smuggle thousands to make weapons. But EU and Ukrainian politicians have spun that out of all proportion really.

    I think Western intelligence and military intelligence is just fine and they know how to do their jobs. They know what models of cruise missiles Russia has in its inventory and where they are manufactured. They know what companies in Russia manufacture microchips and electronics. I mean that stuff is basically public domain info anyway.
    There's no way Western intelligence in all honesty came up with the line about the Russian military stealing washing machines to get at their microchips, that was parroted by Western politicians. That claptrap came from Kiev.

    The issue is more that said Western politicians have bought too deeply into Zelensky's coke-trail and media spin, and have persuaded themselves of their own propaganda cliches about Russia.
    Even that what they don't believe, they still will infallibly re-translate back to their own populations, because it's in their interests to keep stringing public opinion along with promises of a swift coming victory over Russia.

    Mind you, it is possible that Russia will in fact be using chips out of appliances, since China and Vietnam are typically the dumping grounds of the world's consumer electronics. Both those countries rip the chips out of old appliances that were sent to the trash and resell them, there is also a lot of counterfeiting going on with relabeling of old chips, these chips show up in the US in supposedly reputable vendors stock. So I would not be surprised if Russia also ended up with some chips like that. But it will not be Russia removing the chips out of appliances that is for sure. It will be someone in China or Vietnam.

    It's not possible at all. Russia has the capacity to make its own microchips of sufficient sophistication for military use, not to mention its own PCBs, capacitors, diodes and other things.
    I mean you can make your PCBs at home if you want, I'm planning to do so myself for a side-project. All you really need is a copper plate, some Ferric chloride solution, a clothes iron, adhesive paper and a drill (although in industry they're produced by laser-cutting). The capacitors you find most often in consumer electronics, the chunky tubes on a pair of metal legs, are in their basic form basically made up of alternating strips of aluminum foil and paper rolled up into a cylinder and bathed in an electrolyte solution.
    The more efficient, naturally, your microchip, PCB, capacitor, other electronic components, etc... are, the more complicated the steps and the more precise the production technology for their manufacture has to be. Ditto if you want to use miniaturized SMD components. But for military use you don't need the most efficient components, just reliable and durable ones.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:18 am

    GarryB wrote:The first two posts of this thread included conversations... I have now edited them to show users what they should look like... I should not have to do this... I will not continue to do this.

    FPs first post I removed several other comments and left the one he was replying to because it was the first post in this thread and leaving that post allows you to see what he is talking about without having to open the previous thread. The next response by Limb however did not have to repeat the entire conversation as it was a reply to the post directly above it.

    Neither poster knew this was going to become a new thread (thanks George) so I am editing instead of banning.

    I looked it up and there might be a way of doing things a smarter way without banning anyone

    https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2141992

    Apparently the phpBB framework this forum uses has a max. setting for the amount of nested quotations of text you can have. If you find it, set it to 1 and then quoting entire conversations shouldn't happen for anyone anymore.

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:18 pm

    https://idiod.video/hpte3n.mp4
    Geolocation is unknown.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:24 pm

    Erk wrote:
    nomadski wrote:
    I am no chip expert , but don't they get fried by EMP ? How do we protect against that ? Do weapons have secondary guidance , that are jam- proof ? Do cruise have INS that could kick in a few kilometres away from target , when GPS is jammed ? Error should be minimal . Or drone swarm sent in advance with cheap internal guidance  and cruise arriving later  , riding on GPS , then sending corrective signal to drones ? then everyone diving in , on INS ? Saving also on chips . The offensive coming up , I think best to have one front , instead of three or more . Makes sure of victory and the important initial  psychological factor . A long armed advance to River  ,  with River providing second arm of pincer ? You only need one knife to cut a Cake to many pieces .

    Not really, there are no practical EMP weapons you could use on a battlefield.

    Lightning can do EMP, but the most common EMP is from a nuke going off called NEMP.


    Well there are the consistent rumours/reports of EMP rounds being in development for at least the Koalitsiya

    There is a considerable amount of theory behind it
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t3442p25-russian-emp-weapons#281288

    Also there were reports about anti-air EMP warheads under development for TOR missiles

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:38 pm

    Seems that those Lancets are being so widely spread and mass delivered, that they can afford playing with them ...

    https://t.me/intelslava/41390

    Just taking out everything that spotted, one by one ...

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:39 pm

    Scorpius wrote:https://idiod.video/hpte3n.mp4
    Geolocation is unknown.
    Kasan

    Countries neighboring Russia
    Now take a map and look how many countries are neighboring Russia.  Laughing
    Most machines were likely exported to consumers in Japan or Turkey or Poland.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Fh9vfe10


    Last edited by Hole on Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:42 pm

    They need some WD-40 Laughing

    Why are they trying to get that wheel off, the tank doesn't look saveable? Or are they just desperate for parts?

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Fh_F_MYUUAAWB0v?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  Hole Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:45 pm

    There will be a slight delay...  Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Post  Hole Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:46 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Scree503
    Snow in Kijüw

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:49 pm

    JohninMK wrote:They need some WD-40 Laughing

    Why are they trying to get that wheel off, the tank doesn't look saveable? Or are they just desperate for parts?


    This tank had an appointment with PTM Twisted Evil
    It is not as bad as it seems, traction is destroyed but can be repaired.
    Ukrs are desperate for any working tank, as you can see.

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:49 pm

    Real self sacrifice, doing this in the probable knowledge that his wife was pregnant.

    Tony
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    Interesting

    1/ Gen. Surovikin's dad, was a fighter pilot during the Korean War with 3 confirmed kills.

    2/ His father died in 1966 when the engine on his Su-7B stalled. He was ordered to eject but refused steering the aircraft away from a settlement. He received an award posthumously.

    Surovikin never met him as he was born several months after his death.

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:53 pm

    ALAMO wrote:

    This tank had an appointment with PTM Twisted Evil
    It is not as bad as it seems, traction is destroyed but can be repaired.
    Ukrs are desperate for any working tank, as you can see.

    It looks like they might fail, that extension bar seems to be bending at the stress point at the end of the smaller bar through the wheel.

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:55 pm

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    Post  Erk Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:57 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Well there are the consistent rumours/reports of EMP rounds being in development for at least the Koalitsiya

    There is a considerable amount of theory behind it
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t3442p25-russian-emp-weapons#281288

    Also there were reports about anti-air EMP warheads under development for TOR missiles

    Not the same, NEMP will take out the electronics in an entire city, or a country in the case of the Sakharov bomb theory.

    Using EMP warheads for basic air defense is impractical, that's why the don't do it.

    You could just shine a high power microwave at the target eg. the US THOR project..

    Might be useful against a drone swarm, haven't seen too many of those used by Ukraine yet.




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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:59 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    It looks like they might fail, that extension bar seems to be bending at the stress point at the end of the smaller bar through the wheel.

    You would have been surprised to see the condition of a junk republican militia repaired back then.
    If you are desperate, standards are getting lower, you know Very Happy
    Sure, that requires access to spare parts and skilled mechanics, so at least the first can go low for Ukrs.

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    Post  Hole Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:11 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Fh_qi510
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Fialgg10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Fialgv10
    Guarding the Kinburn spit

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:16 pm

    Surely, with this gear so carelessly close together, as per the Ukie comments near the start of the SMO, this has to be a Russian convoy Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:21 pm

    TOS creating its own smokescreen as a byproduct.  Laughing

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:26 pm

    Tony
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    Vikrh-1 missiles fired from a Ka-52 hitting targets at distances of ~ 7.7km

    Considering the helicopter is moving forward, the missiles were probably launched from a distance of over 8km

    The official max range of the missile is 10km but rarely achieved in real life conditions

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 3 Fh5v5aTVUAA02PM?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:38 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Vikrh-1 missiles fired from a Ka-52 hitting targets at distances of ~ 7.7km

    This number indicates the actual range to the target, so if the chopper is flying towards it, it will be decreasing.
    The missile was most probably released from a greater distance.

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