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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:58 pm

    limb wrote:
    Because they need to. After the 2nd or 3rd shot, the pzh2000 and krab are extremely accurate, due to a digital FCS and much longer range(30km regular round, 40km RAP, 60km Smart or excalibur, while 24.7km, regular, 30km RAP, 27km krasnopol for msta) . The msta and giatsint arent and without krasnopol, need to fire 10-50 rounds at a target to disable it..  The koalitsiya is superior toNATO systems but its still being "ironed out"(translation: potbelly dinosaur pennypinchers don't want to throw a penny to mass produce them). Russian ammo expenditure is a sign of obsolete tech, not superiority. That being said, NATO artillery really doesn't cope withe xtended fire, but it doesn't need to. actual NATO coalition armies, with about 700-900 pzh2000, archer, krab, AS-90, paladin, M198 would the wipe the floor against 2000-3000 D-20s, 2S19M2, D-30s, msta-B, giatsint B, pion

    The problem for Russia, or for any high-tech army with a variety of destruction means - is not taking something out that it finds. It has the same GLONASS-guided rounds it can use for the purpose if it wants to. The newer systems can achieve good accuracy even with just dumb rounds and GLONASS integration/targeting. Or Russia can use a million other things to achieve the same.

    The problem is finding the target in real-time time in order to be able to aim at it in the first place.

    The exact same problem will afflict any NATO army too

    Vast majority of the time you only have an approximate idea, or a triangulation giving an area where an enemy artillery is somewhere or other, or a map co-ordinate of an enemy formation given by troops on the ground, or a precise location but already 6 hours old.
    To actually target something precisely with artillery you need not only a guided round, but a drone up in the air spotting it or lasering it, or at the very least a report by troops on the ground that can identify a precise building if talking about stationary targets. And those scenarios are more the exception than the norm.

    And for area fire using guided rounds would be horribly wasteful. There can be no equivalent by using such expensive ammo, to shelling an entire area that you know is manned with one type of enemy or another, or that you suspect may be and better to be safe than sorry. To shelling some fortifications and ruins day and night to keep the enemy pinned and drain morale.
    All of this requires both an efficient ammo supply and durable weapon systems themselves that will handle the stress of a constant rate of fire.

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    Post  limb Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:59 pm

    Russian glonass rounds are designed, but they havent been mass produced. Guided rounds are better against groups of troops and SPGs.  Laser guided rounds are exactly used in order not to waste ammo0 on a grid square

    On a positive note, a brainwashed right wing whore thought she would have a nice safari shelling rusnya from avdeyevka, but she doen fucked up.

    https://twitter.com/ZaTritsa/status/1593559030688927745?s=20&t=5tC6CZCflSoyVWOumCVD4w
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    Post  Scorpius Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:03 pm

    Since the start of the special military operation, Russia has launched more than 7,000 missile strikes. The depth of the failure of foreign intelligence services, which were unable to even imagine the approximate number of high-precision weapons available in Russia, is simply amazing.
    P.S. Do you really think that Russia is close to exhausting its stock of missile weapons? Wink

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    Post  ucmvulcan Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:19 pm

    Scorpius wrote:Since the start of the special military operation, Russia has launched more than 7,000 missile strikes. The depth of the failure of foreign intelligence services, which were unable to even imagine the approximate number of high-precision weapons available in Russia, is simply amazing.
    P.S. Do you really think that Russia is close to exhausting its stock of missile weapons? Wink

    Given that rockets are cheap to make, except in the US where there is lots of embezzlement and kickbacks and corruption and price gouging by the MIC drastically increase the costs of all military manufactures . . . . uh I mean where wonderwaffles invincible to all commie weaponry, and that Russia has tens of thousands and a fairly large military industrial capacity, I'd be very surprised if Russia ran out of missiles any time in my lifetime. Like I said, our media lives in fantasy land:

    Lets see:

    March, Russia is out of rockets
    April, Russians seen updating T-72s, they are out of tanks (funny, I remember hearing of the tens of thousands of tanks parked in boneyards and tank parts all across Russia from the Cold War)
    May, Russia is out of money as sanctions. . . .
    June, Russians out of men
    July, Russia is out of oil, yes, John McCain's gas station with nuclear weapons is out of gas). No seriously, why are you laughing? This was on American news media
    August, Russia may still have tanks but their main problem is going to be rounds and barrels
    September, Russia is out of airplanes and drones
    October, Russia is out of rockets and drones and if not for them meddling Iranians we'd be winning (as an aside, I -like all good and patriotic Mercuns - started paying attention to the complete lack of women's rights and all the protests for the freedumbz there, now I am sure that those "peaceful" protests in Iran have nothing to do with Iran siding with Russia)
    November, Russia doesn't have adequate winter clothing for their troops. Just like the Nazis in WWII. I always ask them to read "Russia doesn't have adequate winter clothing for their troops" very slowly and as much as is needed for them to see why that makes no sense

    Of course this is the same news media that has told of great Ukrainian offensives all spring and summer long, maybe its next spring because there is going to be a lol, well I do laugh out loud but a lull in the war until spring.

    This is the same media that unquestioningly reports Klitschko's line of 20 out of 18 missiles shot down in Kiev.

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:39 pm

    Remind me, 7k is about twice what the US/NATO have used in the last 30 years in total? scratch
    Serious question, maybe someone has accumulated data that I lack.

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    Post  RTN Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:42 pm

    Sujoy wrote:This is a new version of the Kh-101 strategic cruise missile. Unlike the standard ‘Izdeliye 504A’, the new ‘504AP’ has added electronic countermeasures to jam anti-aircraft missiles.
    Lolzz Very Happy what added electronic countermeasures?

    Now that they are being blow out of the sky by IRIS-T you came up with your own propaganda.
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    Post  RTN Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:46 pm

    Scorpius wrote:Since the start of the special military operation, Russia has launched more than 7,000 missile strikes.
    7000 missiles? Not even the US has 7000 missiles in its arsenal.

    STOP counting washing machines as missiles.

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    Post  PhSt Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:49 pm

    Remember The Nutsack wrote:
    Now that they are being blow out of the sky by IRIS-T you came up with your own propaganda.

    The footage is your own NATzO Propaganda that you are desperately trying to shove down people's thoats out of desperation because Russia has shown the world how NATzO equipment is so useless Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  PhSt Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:55 pm

    Remember The Nutsack wrote:
    7000 missiles? Not even the US has 7000 missiles in its arsenal.

    You are just butthurt because the US lags behind Russia in terms of number of missiles and their quality  Laughing


    Remember The Nutsack wrote:STOP counting washing machines as missiles.

    STOP farting NATzO Propaganda Laughing Laughing

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:58 pm

    PhSt wrote:
    The footage is your own NATzO Propaganda that you are desperately trying to shove down people's thoats out of desperation because Russia has shown the world how NATzO equipment is so useless Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Talking useless ... Laughing

    Just take a look of how this shit is huge Shocked

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 Zrzut_38

    Never considered that, but ...

    It is more than 1m longer than Shilka, almost a meter wider, and almost a meter higher Shocked
    It is the same time gap, keep that in mind.
    That clearly constitutes the REAL level of technology applied.

    A 80 cm higher profile makes some 1km longer range it can be detected and destroyed.

    Holly shit unshaven

    I know that Herr Leberwurst is not a strongman, yet he looks like a dwarf Laughing

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 Zrzut_39

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    Post  mnztr Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:36 pm

    @limb

    I have seen footage of Russians using drones to call fire missions and at most 3 rounds is typically required with correction, but of course the accuracy of the wide range of Russian guns will very. The older ones were never built for precision and are bombardment weapons. The newer and updated ones are pretty accurate and retain their robust qualities. Bombardment is still a useful and effective tool in some battles.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:27 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Scorpius wrote:Since the start of the special military operation, Russia has launched more than 7,000 missile strikes.
    7000 missiles? Not even the US has 7000 missiles in its arsenal.

    STOP counting washing machines as missiles.

    Dude, your own crew counted them

    I don't make the rules


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    Post  Hole Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:06 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 Fh8e9910
    Very likely prediction.

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    Post  psg Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:29 pm

    They helped fund and train these, nazi rat bastards, fk them. They fully deserve it, the western world will have to deal with their own creation of terror groups, extremists etc, when they come back home. Screw them.

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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:45 pm

    Some context for the withdrawal ("retreat") from the west bank of the Dnepr River by Russians forces: winter is coming and
    the river freezes over. This f*cks up supply lines since the ice prevents use of boats but is not good enough to drive trucks
    over. Shelling by Kiev regime forces can easily disrupt any attempt to supply over ice. Even if you can set up a pontoon bridge
    and not have the ice drag it away, the shelling can destroy it.

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    Post  Erk Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:54 pm

    Scorpius wrote:Since the start of the special military operation, Russia has launched more than 7,000 missile strikes. The depth of the failure of foreign intelligence services, which were unable to even imagine the approximate number of high-precision weapons available in Russia, is simply amazing.
    P.S. Do you really think that Russia is close to exhausting its stock of missile weapons? Wink

    Where did Russia get the 7,000 washing machines to rat?

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    Post  sepheronx Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:00 pm

    Erk wrote:

    Where did Russia get the 7,000 washing machines to rat?

    Kazakhstan, China, Iran. Apparently.

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    Post  DerWolf Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:50 pm

    I think they have already formed 3 large battle groups.

    1st could attack on Sumi and north of Kharkov.

    2nd could attack south of Kharkov, in order to cut off enemy battle group on the Oskol river.

    3rd could attack from the South, between Zaporozie city and Donetsk city and cut enemy forces on Donbass front

    from Dniepr river.

    I'm not sure how many forces are necessary for this kind of mega operation, but Russia could surprise us with

    something big, very soon.


    Well, I can be optimistic, right?!


    This could make sense. Russians might have thought this way: three large pincers cutting off Ukr along Dnieper river. Then the river could also SERVE as a barrier from Ukr counter-offensives.


    Last edited by DerWolf on Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Werewolf Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:53 pm

    Erk wrote:
    Where did Russia get the 7,000 washing machines to rat?

    Probably from Elensky's basement where he used to wash his money,

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    Post  ucmvulcan Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:25 pm

    Well any advent gifts sent via airmail to the nazis today?

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    Post  diabetus Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:48 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Sujoy wrote:This is a new version of the Kh-101 strategic cruise missile. Unlike the standard ‘Izdeliye 504A’, the new ‘504AP’ has added electronic countermeasures to jam anti-aircraft missiles.
    Lolzz Very Happy what added electronic countermeasures?

    Now that they are being blow out of the sky by IRIS-T you came up with your own propaganda.

    Any documentation of that?

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    Post  lancelot Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:18 am

    ucmvulcan wrote:... Russia has tens of thousands and a fairly large military industrial capacity, I'd be very surprised if Russia ran out of missiles any time in my lifetime.  Like I said, our media lives in fantasy land:

    Lets see:

    March, Russia is out of rockets
    April, Russians seen updating T-72s, they are out of tanks (funny, I remember hearing of the tens of thousands of tanks parked in boneyards and tank parts all across Russia from the Cold War)
    May, Russia is out of money as sanctions. . . .
    June, Russians out of men
    July, Russia is out of oil, yes, John McCain's gas station with nuclear weapons is out of gas). No seriously, why are you laughing? This was on American news media
    August, Russia may still have tanks but their main problem is going to be rounds and barrels
    September, Russia is out of airplanes and drones
    ...
    Russia is building Su-34, Su-30, Su-35, airplanes faster than they are losing them. The main issue is the helicopters and the Su-25.
    The Su-34 also needs to gets its sensors upgraded so it can detect and track ground targets from larger distances. A new generation of surface attack missiles needs to be produced as well. Had they done that then pilots would not need to do those low altitude passes with iron bombs as much and risk their aircraft.

    I think the whole rationale of Russia running out of cruise missiles and fuel is based on poor Western intelligence. And the worst thing is these Western politicians still have not learned after all this time and continue saying the same bullshit. I heard Ukraine claiming Russia had limited stocks of cruise missiles. And the EU claiming Russia would run out of diesel. This was based on facts. Ukraine used to produce the engines for the cruise missiles, and the catalyst used to refine diesel used to be imported from the EU. They thought with the sanctions they could cut Russia access to these things. But the thing is Russia produced its own substitutes. Both for the cruise missile engines and the catalyst material. So Western intel were obviously wrong on both counts but they continue in denial.

    As for the "chips out of washing machines" I think this was a claim made by someone at ASML which spun out of all proportion. The person from ASML was basically saying the chips the policians think they can ban Russia access to to make these weapon systems are so common you can find them in cheap consumer products like washing machines and that it is pointless to try to ban sales of them. They can be easily smuggled since they are produced in the many millions and you can divert some without anyone noticing. You can easily smuggle thousands to make weapons. But EU and Ukrainian politicians have spun that out of all proportion really.

    Mind you, it is possible that Russia will in fact be using chips out of appliances, since China and Vietnam are typically the dumping grounds of the world's consumer electronics. Both those countries rip the chips out of old appliances that were sent to the trash and resell them, there is also a lot of counterfeiting going on with relabeling of old chips, these chips show up in the US in supposedly reputable vendors stock. So I would not be surprised if Russia also ended up with some chips like that. But it will not be Russia removing the chips out of appliances that is for sure. It will be someone in China or Vietnam.

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    Post  Erk Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:49 am

    RTN wrote:

    Now that they are being blow out of the sky by IRIS-T you came up with your own propaganda.

    IRIS-T is nothing but a propaganda missile.
    It's 25 mile range far too short range for a country the size of Ukraine, and they have not build even a tiny fraction of the unit's which would be required.

    Russia can, and has demonstrated, that they can effortlessly send a wave of missiles large enough to penetrate the best air defenses the West has been able to supply Ukraine, IRIS-T included.

    What the IRIS-T fanboys deliberately forget, is the IRIS-T is being manufactured by a country which is experiencing and industrial collapse.

    Then they expect it to defeat a country which is experiencing an industrial boom, and I don't see that changing in the near future.

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    Post  ucmvulcan Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:56 am

    lancelot wrote:
    Russia is building Su-34, Su-30, Su-35, airplanes faster than they are losing them. The main issue is the helicopters and the Su-25.
    The Su-34 also needs to gets its sensors upgraded so it can detect and track ground targets from larger distances. A new generation of surface attack missiles needs to be produced as well. Had they done that then pilots would not need to do those low altitude passes with iron bombs as much and risk their aircraft.

    I think the whole rationale of Russia running out of cruise missiles and fuel is based on poor Western intelligence. And the worst thing is these Western politicians still have not learned after all this time and continue saying the same bullshit. I heard Ukraine claiming Russia had limited stocks of cruise missiles. And the EU claiming Russia would run out of diesel. This was based on facts. Ukraine used to produce the engines for the cruise missiles, and the catalyst used to refine diesel used to be imported from the EU. They thought with the sanctions they could cut Russia access to these things. But the thing is Russia produced its own substitutes. Both for the cruise missile engines and the catalyst material. So Western intel were obviously wrong on both counts but they continue in denial.

    As for the "chips out of washing machines" I think this was a claim made by someone at ASML which spun out of all proportion. The person from ASML was basically saying the chips the policians think they can ban Russia access to to make these weapon systems are so common you can find them in cheap consumer products like washing machines and that it is pointless to try to ban sales of them. They can be easily smuggled since they are produced in the many millions and you can divert some without anyone noticing. You can easily smuggle thousands to make weapons. But EU and Ukrainian politicians have spun that out of all proportion really.

    Mind you, it is possible that Russia will in fact be using chips out of appliances, since China and Vietnam are typically the dumping grounds of the world's consumer electronics. Both those countries rip the chips out of old appliances that were sent to the trash and resell them, there is also a lot of counterfeiting going on with relabeling of old chips, these chips show up in the US in supposedly reputable vendors stock. So I would not be surprised if Russia also ended up with some chips like that. But it will not be Russia removing the chips out of appliances that is for sure. It will be someone in China or Vietnam.

    I have noticed that the western news media and MIC establishment makes gloomy claims about Russia its mostly projection plain and simple.

    Ukraine loses 70,000 dead and 210,000 badly wounded, well Russia must be suffering similar losses. They don't grasp that Russia has mostly dug in and is forcing Ukraine to fight a Verdun and that Russia has mastery of the air and superiority in firepower and artillery to say nothing of training, combat experience, and leadership at least at the unit level.

    For instance, Russia is running out of microchips, not too long ago Biden said the MIC was running out of microchips for wonderwaffles.

    The US has been experiencing a shortage of cruise missiles for some time now and so they probably thought that the Russians had similar defects. As relations with China deteriorate I strongly suspect US High tech and weaponry will pay a penalty.

    Helicopters and Frogfoots may be something of a liability, but my take (and again I cannot verify anything on this war [especially not with the media we have in the US]) is that Putin is taking his sweet time escalating arms production. The vast cold war tank parks and bone yards for planes from when Soviet planners were planning apocalyptic warfare in northern Germany gives Russia an immense economic advantage. The United States still has some industry, but most of it is in Latin America and Asia. Same for the EU. They trade money, gold, and stocks and bonds for overseas commodities such as mineral wealth and petroleum products. For the US and NATO to go on a war footing they have to raise taxes and cut into social welfare spending (its a pain in the ass to be poor in the US and there is a shit ton more homeless camps than there used to be) to build more weapons. Russia, on the other hand, is just able to clean out the oils and embalming materials in their guns, armor, and planes, slap on some reactive armor, update the computer and electronics and drive it to the front. Considering that the Soviet model for military design was that equipment must be easy to build, operate, and maintain and be rugged, they don't even need to spend all that much getting stuff battle ready. So basically vast stockpiles of weapons available at no cost combined with low cost Iranian munitiions are being used to knock out western equipment that is far more expensive to produce, is far less rugged on the battlefield, requires far more training, and far more maintenance. This is true of every piece of equipment given by the west from SAM and hymens to the infantry rifle. The M-16 may be slightly more accurate at slightly longer ranger than the Kalashnikov, but cleaning its a pain, and if you don't clean it its far less accurate. Kalashnikov? Pull it out of a swamp, load the magazine, point and shoot.

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    Post  Erk Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:05 am

    ucmvulcan wrote:... For the US and NATO to go on a war footing they have to raise taxes and cut into social welfare spending (its a pain in the ass to be poor in the US and there is a shit ton more homeless camps than there used to be) to build more weapons.  ...  

    Also, the US and the West in general, does not have enough surplus energy to ramp up MIC production to anything that even vaguely resembles a war footing.
    They struggle getting sufficient diesel fuel, etc. to run their domestic economy, let alone ramp up industry.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, Hole, Scorpius, Broski, Belisarius and ucmvulcan like this post


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