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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:17 pm

    @ALAMO

    like every week so 52times per year Russians run out of missiles, damn



    Russian Defense Ministry announced the destruction of 100 Ukrainian soldiers in the area of ​​the Moiseevka station
    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16442317


    MOSCOW, 28 November. /TASS/. The Russian Aerospace Forces attacked the concentration of manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) in the Dnipropetrovsk region with high-precision weapons, more than 100 military AFU were destroyed. This was announced to journalists on Monday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov.


    "As a result of a strike with high-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces on the concentration of manpower and military equipment of the 17th tank brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of ​​​​the Moiseevka station in the Dnepropetrovsk region, eight armored vehicles and five vehicles were destroyed during loading onto railway transport," Konashenkov said

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    diabetus


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    Post  diabetus Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:31 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 21 Img_2018

    Coming soon to Ukraine. Please tell me how this is also a useless waste of money and inferior to unguided rockets.
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    Post  ucmvulcan Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:38 pm

    Oh that one's simple Diabetus, you need aircraft to be able to deliver it and Ukraine doesn't have any that get through Russian air defense. I guess you could put it on a drone but then those mostly get shot down too.

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    Post  diabetus Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:50 pm

    No you don't, it will be fired from Himars or MLRS. It's a ground launched SDB. ~150km range.
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    Post  VARGR198 Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:54 pm



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    Post  flamming_python Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:05 pm

    https://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/poshel-na-h-y-arestovich-otvetil-na-prosbu-pisat-na-ukrainskom-yazyke-1512857.html

    In a more lighthearted moment, I found an article from 2021 that showed Arestovich telling a Ukrainian commenter to go **** himself when asked why he speaks russian at a delegation. lol! lol!

    Im really confused. Does anyone else wonder why Arestovich doesn't get any flak for always speaking russian? I feel like hes secretly pro-russian because he was a eurasianist before and is single handedly discrediting Ukrainian propaganda with his claims.

    Why is Arestovich called Ukraine's "Goebbels"? Arestovich is usually level headed and often times admits Ukrainian troops are losing. Kuleba, andrey melnik or the kyiv independent is more like Ukraine's Goebbels.

    The same reason Gordon speaks Russian. And indeed why Podolyaka speaks Russian. So that everyone can understand them. Within the Ukraine itself, but also within Russia as Arestovich is targeting that audience too with propaganda.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:20 pm

    franco wrote:NOTE: this philosophy could be applied to the whole Russian SMO

    It is

    In Kherson the Ukrainian forces present are continuously being whittled down as well

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:30 pm

    diabetus wrote:
    Coming soon to Ukraine. Please tell me how this is also a useless waste of money and inferior to unguided rockets.

    It's not inferior, it's just that like any other precision weapon, it's successful use is predicated on locating and tracking the enemy to X precision in the first place.
    Which is not such an easy task, often its just unfeasible

    Most likely the Ukraine will use it like the HIMARS, on stationary targets that are picked up on satellites

    For anything moving the Ukraine will rely on conventional artillery

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    Post  lyle6 Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:32 pm

    kvs wrote:I still do not fully understand why the Russian army is not active in the fighting in Donetsk. It is essentially Wagner and the DNR militia that is doing all the fighting. It seemed to me in early summer that the Donetsk fighting would be wrapped up by the end of August but it has been drawn out instead. The grinding down objective does not imply that the Donetsk fighting needs to be drawn out. The front is much longer and we saw plenty of grinding in Kherson.
    The Russian army is fighting too; they just choose not to engage in direct combat. But they provide the bulk of combat and non-combat support services to the allied forces, and that work makes up all the difference in numbers and then some.

    And they will, rejoin the fighting, but in time. They were just reinforced by tens of thousands of mobilized troops. While these troops don't lack for training, having previously served, the current conflict has had a lot of military developments made apparent. It will take time for the troops to internalize all these new lessons but once they do, they will wipe the floor with whatever semblance of an army Ukraine would still have remaining by the time the ground has fully frozen for offensive combat operations to proceed.

    diabetus wrote:Coming soon to Ukraine. Please tell me how this is also a useless waste of money and inferior to unguided rockets.
    Its a slow ass metal bomb. I guess Russian kids would be appreciative of the shootdown bonus their fathers will get, so there's that.

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    Post  Airbornewolf Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:32 pm

    Murad with the LPR guys.
    And i believe that is the first time i have seen an T-90M out there Cool

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    Post  Arrow Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:44 pm

    Pessymistic zoka Very Happy




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    Post  JohninMK Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:51 pm

    More on this

    News today of the relaunch of a 2015 project, a potential new 150km missile for MLRS systems. Very flexible especially if the SDB II is used. This is Boeing trying to be a competitor to L-M in this area.

    The SDB II is not just a simple bomb, there is a whole R&D operation (read huge profit opportunity) based on it and tens of thousand are on the shelf. If the USAF can't deliver it they have to find another way.

    “”WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Pentagon is considering a Boeing proposal to supply Ukraine with cheap, small precision bombs fitted onto abundantly available rockets, allowing Kyiv to strike far behind Russian lines as the West struggles to meet demand for more arms.

    U.S. and allied military inventories are shrinking, and Ukraine faces an increasing need for more sophisticated weapons as the war drags on. Boeing’s proposed system, dubbed Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB), is one of about a half-dozen plans for getting new munitions into production for Ukraine and America’s Eastern European allies, industry sources said.

    GLSDB could be delivered as early as spring 2023, according to a document reviewed by Reuters and three people familiar with the plan. It combines the GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) with the M26 rocket motor, both of which are common in U.S. inventories.”


    From Wiki “The original SDB is equipped with a GPS-aided inertial navigation system to attack fixed/stationary targets such as fuel depots, bunkers, etc. The second variant (Raytheon’s GBU-53/B SDB II) will include a thermal seeker and radar with automatic target recognition features for striking mobile targets such as tanks, vehicles, and mobile command posts”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-39_Small_Diameter_Bomb

    https://www.boeing.co.kr/resources/ko_KR/Seoul-International/2015/GLSDB.pdf

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:22 pm

    diabetus wrote:No you don't, it will be fired from Himars or MLRS. It's a ground launched SDB. ~150km range.

    Russia has coming soon 170km howitzer rounds, and 200km MLRS rounds coming soon, your point?

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    Post  Belisarius Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:33 pm

    They need 2× like this ,with UAVs and aviation support +GMRLS .Of above they can only mobilize manpower. Rest lacking and cannot replaced easily. Just example of Tornado S, they should have hundreds of them, while have few.
    The Smerch as well as the Tornado can fire the GLONASS-guided 9М542 rocket with a 120km range.

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    Post  Belisarius Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:37 pm

    Russia has coming soon 170km howitzer rounds, and 200km MLRS rounds coming soon, your point?
    A new long-range (200 km) high-precision missile 9M544 for the Tornado-S system was tested in 2020.

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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:37 pm

    Some Polish military on "vacation" in Ukraine:
    https://t.me/intelslava/41986
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    Post  Belisarius Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:49 pm

    Coming soon to Ukraine. Please tell me how this is also a useless waste of money and inferior to unguided rockets.
    Nobody here claims that guided munitions are useless or inferior to unguided projectiles. Guided munitions are very good at hitting single targets with precision, but that doesn't negate the need for unguided munitions on the battlefield, which remain very effective at engaging concentrations of infantry and light vehicles in open terrain or light cover.

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    Post  Hole Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:00 pm

    A typical american weapon system. Planned to be cheap but after all the gimmicks are in place it costs a fortune. 

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 21 Fiqcq310
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    ZZ Top with new members.  Very Happy

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:10 pm

    Is that the new "gamechanger"?

    Tee hee.

    Belisarius wrote:Nobody here claims that guided munitions are useless or inferior to unguided projectiles. Guided munitions are very good at hitting single targets with precision, but that doesn't negate the need for unguided munitions on the battlefield, which remain very effective at engaging concentrations of infantry and light vehicles in open terrain or light cover.

    The Russians and their Republican allies are using a multitude of precision-guided munitions, both barreled and rockets/missiles/loitering munitions. Both GNS, inertial and actively guided (laser, TV/electro-optical etc).

    But they are also able to fire some 50,000 rounds of unguided shells/rockets a day if need be, at a similar cost of a handful of PGMs of any variety per day. And they can keep doing it for an eternity, really, unlike others.

    Everything has its application.

    Speaking of precision artillery.. Do note that Ukrainian UAVs apart from consumer-grade quadcopters used locally have all but disappeared due to superior Russian AA. Now they rely on NATO-provided surveillance and "passive" GPS targeting for things like HIMARS and Excalibur (and soon SDBs). These are getting shot down too, but they do hit sometimes. Thing is, the Russians have adapted and are moving their stuff around a lot more, not concentrating things anywhere etc.

    The most common guided shell the Russians use, Krasnopol on the other hand relies on laser painting by a proper UAV, a luxury the Ukrainians don't have due to the AA situation. And it can hit targets on the move.

    Any stationary Ukrainian force can be hit by ultra cheap unguided artillery or, if further away, by cheap ass Gerans (or if a high priority target, by a more expensive cruise missile, which there's no lack of either, evidently).

    I will reiterate, UA is suffering ridiculous losses and are only kept alive by Russian unwillingness to actually finally go all-in and massive western aid (I saw a calculation by American journalists saying that the US alone thew more money into this in 9 months than over 2 years of their Afghan campaign, and that's just the US), massive propaganda and the genocidal stubbornness of the UA elite.

    And the actual genocide is that of Ukrainians being needlessly sent into this meat grinder, so Zelensky is to blame I suppose. What makes it extra sad is that people knew this was going to happen if Kiev continued its belligerent policies (egged on by the west and the Ukrainian far-right). Zelensky only won his election because he as a popular figure promised to reconcile and enter the long sought-after negotiations that Poroshenko and the coup government had stonewalled.

    He shat on it all, probably forced to by the aforementioned malignant forces, but still. Went full Bandera.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:03 pm; edited 5 times in total

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    Post  Broski Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:32 pm

    Coming soon to Ukraine. Please tell me how this is also a useless waste of money and inferior to unguided rockets.

    Well that's easy;
    1. Expensive (Excalibur is $80k for God's sake and it's a 155mm artillery shell)
    2. Small number of munitions that will be sent to the Ukraine
    3. Slow (HIMARS are Mach 2.5 and get shot down easily)
    4. Russia will capture them
    5. Only effective against stationary targets that aren't well defended (a.k.a civilian areas)

    Is that the new "gamechanger"?

    Looks like it.

    One more thing to add about the latest "gamechanger" weapon, how high will the GMLRS glide bombs have to be lofted in the air to get the full 150km's range?


    Last edited by Broski on Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  limb Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:45 pm

    they just choose not to engage in direct combat

    And why would they do that? I thought they had very few losses when they engaged in direct fighting in march
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    Post  Arrow Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:27 pm

    UVZ factory
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 21 20221128-190758

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    Post  Hole Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:56 pm

    They must have cannibalised a lot of washing machines for the tanks.  Laughing

    American journalists saying that the US alone thew more money into this in 9 months than over 2 years of their Afghan campaign
    Another comparison made: one day in 404 is like a month in Afghanistan.

    The likely endgame of this conflict:

    The US and its NATO vassals must now backtrack. Some statement like: ‘We were let down by those vodka-drinking surrender-monkey Ukrainians (what can you expect from those Slav subhumans?), but we have won the greatest victory in our history because we have triumphed in stopping the brutal Russian beast at the Polish border. Mission accomplished’. That would do the job. The US and its vassals cannot save face, but, since they only care about PR, they can at least pretend to save face – by blaming Zelensky. 


    From:
    https://thesaker.is/about-saving-face-some-advice-to-volodymyr-zelensky/

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    Post  Kiko Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:10 pm

    A bit old but worth reading:


    Electric War, by Pepe Escobar for Strategic Culture Foundation. 11.23.2022.

    Footfalls echo in the memory
    Down the passage which we did not take
    Towards the door we never opened
    Into the rose-garden. My words echo
    Thus, in your mind.
    But to what purpose
    Disturbing the dust on a bowl of rose-leaves
    I do not know.


    T.S. Eliot, Burnt Norton


    Spare a thought to the Polish farmer snapping pics of a missile wreckage – later indicated to belong to a Ukrainian S-300. So a Polish farmer, his footfalls echoing in our collective memory, may have saved the world from WWIII – unleashed via a tawdry plot concocted by Anglo-American “intelligence”.

    Such tawdriness was compounded by a ridiculous cover-up: the Ukrainians were firing on Russian missiles from a direction that they could not possibly be coming from. That is: Poland. And then the U.S. Secretary of Defense, weapons peddler Lloyd “Raytheon” Austin, sentenced Russia was to blame anyway, because his Kiev vassals were shooting at Russian missiles that should not have been in the air (and they were not).


    Call it the Pentagon elevating bald lying into a rather shabby art.


    The Anglo-American purpose of this racket was to generate a “world crisis” against Russia. It’s been exposed – this time. That does not mean the usual suspects won’t try it again. Soon.

    The main reason is panic. Collective West intel sees how Moscow is finally mobilizing their army – ready to hit the ground next month – while knocking out Ukraine’s electricity infrastructure as a form of Chinese torture.


    Those February days of sending only 100,000 troops – and having the DPR and LPR militias plus Wagner commandos and Kadyrov’s Chechens do most of the heavy lifting – are long gone. Overall, Russians and Russophones were facing hordes of Ukrainian military – perhaps as many as 1 million. The “miracle” of it all is that Russians did quite well.


    Every military analyst knows the basic rule: an invasion force should number three times the defending force. The Russian Army at the start of the SMO was at a small fraction of that rule. The Russian Armed Forces arguably have a standing army of 1.3 million troops. Surely they could have spared a few tens of thousands more than the initial 100,000. But they did not. It was a political decision.

    But now SMO is over: this is CTO (Counter-Terrorist Operation) territory. A sequence of terrorist attacks – targeting the Nord Streams, the Crimea Bridge, the Black Sea Fleet – finally demonstrated the inevitability of going beyond a mere “military operation”.


    And that brings us to Electric War.


    Paving the way to a DMZ


    The Electric War is being handled essentially as a tactic – leading to the eventual imposition of Russia’s terms in a possible armistice (which neither Anglo-American intel and vassal NATO want).


    Even if there was an armistice – widely touted for a few weeks now – that would not end the war. Because the deeper, tacit Russian terms – end of NATO expansion and “indivisibility of security” – were fully spelled out to both Washington and Brussels last December, and subsequently dismissed.

    As nothing – conceptually – has changed since then, coupled with the Western weaponization of Ukraine reaching a frenzy, the Putin-era Stavka could not but expand the initial SMO mandate, which remains denazification and demilitarization. Yet now the mandate will have to encompass Kiev and Lviv.


    And that starts with the current de-electrification campaign – which goes way beyond the east of the Dnieper and along the Black Sea coast towards Odessa.


    That brings us to the key issue of reach and depth of Electric War, in terms of setting up what would be a DMZ – complete with no man’s land – west of the Dnieper to protect Russian areas from NATO artillery, HIMARS and missile attacks.


    How deep? 100 km? Not enough. Rather 300 km – as Kiev has already requested artillery with that kind of range.

    What’s crucial is that way back in July this was already being extensively discussed in Moscow at the highest Stavka levels.


    In an extensive July interview, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov let the cat – diplomatically – out of the bag:

    “This process continues, consistently and persistently. It will continue as long as the West, in its impotent rage, desperate to aggravate the situation as much as possible, continues to flood Ukraine with more and more long-range weapons. Take the HIMARS. Defense Minister Alexey Reznikov boasts that they have already received 300-kilometre ammunition. This means our geographic objectives will move even further from the current line. We cannot allow the part of Ukraine that Vladimir Zelensky, or whoever replaces him, will control to have weapons that pose a direct threat to our territory or to the republics that have declared their independence and want to determine their own future.”

    The implications are clear.


    As much as Washington and NATO are even more “desperate to aggravate the situation as much as possible” (and that’s Plan A: there’s no Plan B), geoeconomically the Americans are intensifying the New Great Game: desperation here applies to trying to control energy corridors and setting their price.


    Russia remains unfazed – as it continues to invest in Pipelineistan (towards Asia); solidify the multimodal International North South Transportation Corridor (INTSC), with key partners India and Iran; and is setting the price of energy via OPEC+.


    A paradise for oligarchic looters

    The Straussians/neo-cons and neoliberal-cons permeating the Anglo-American intel/security apparatus – de facto weaponized viruses – won’t relent. They simply cannot afford losing yet another NATO war – and on top of it against “existential threat” Russia.


    As the news from the Ukraine battlefields promise to be even grimmer under General Winter, solace at least may be found in the cultural sphere. The Green transition racket, seasoned in a toxic mixed salad with the eugenist Silicon Valley ethos, continues to be a side dish offered with the main course: the Davos “Great Narrative”, former Great Reset, which reared its ugly head, once again, at the G20 in Bali.


    That translates as everything going swell as far as the Destruction of Europe project is concerned. De-industrialize and be happy; rainbow-dance to every woke tune on the market; and freeze and burn wood while blessing “renewables” in the altar of European values.


    A quick flashback to contextualize where we are is always helpful.


    Ukraine was part of Russia for nearly four centuries. The very idea of its independence was invented in Austria during WWI for the purpose of undermining the Russian Army – and that certainly happened. The present “independence” was set up so local Trotskyite oligarchs could loot the nation as a Russia-aligned government was about to move against those oligarchs.


    The 2014 Kiev coup was essentially set up by Zbig “Grand Chessboard” Brzezinski to draw Russia into a new partisan war – as in Afghanistan – and was followed by orders to the Gulf oil haciendas to crash the oil price. Moscow had to protect Russophones in Crimea and Donbass – and that led to more Western sanctions. All of it was a setup.


    For 8 years, Moscow refused to send its armies even to Donbass east of the Dnieper (historically part of Mother Russia). The reason: not to be bogged down in another partisan war. The rest of Ukraine, meanwhile, was being looted by oligarchs supported by the West, and plunged into a financial black hole.

    The collective West deliberately chose not to finance the black hole. Most of the IMF injections were simply stolen by the oligarchs, and the loot transferred out of the country. These oligarchic looters were of course “protected” by the usual suspects.


    It’s always crucial to remember that between 1991 and 1999 the equivalent of the present entire household wealth of Russia was stolen and transferred overseas, mostly to London. Now the same usual suspects are trying to ruin Russia with sanctions, as “new Hitler” Putin stopped the looting.


    The difference is that the plan of using Ukraine as just a pawn in their game is not working.

    On the ground, what has been going on so far are mostly skirmishes, and a few real battles. But with Moscow massing fresh troops for a winter offensive, the Ukrainian Army may end up completely routed.


    Russia didn’t look so bad – considering the effectiveness of its mincing machine artillery strikes against Ukrainian fortified positions, and recent planned retreats or positional warfare, keeping casualties down while smashing Ukrainian withering firepower.


    The collective West believes it holds the Ukraine proxy war card. Russia bets on reality, where economic cards are food, energy, resources, resource security and a stable economy.

    Meanwhile, as if the energy-suicide EU did not have to face a pyramid of ordeals, they can surely expect to have knocking on their door at least 15 million desperate Ukrainians escaping from villages and cities with zero electrical power.


    The railway station in – temporarily occupied – Kherson is a graphic example: people show up constantly to warm up and charge their smartphones. The city has no electricity, no heat, and no water.


    Current Russian tactics are the absolute opposite of the military theory of concentrated force developed by Napoleon. That’s why Russia is accumulating serious advantages while “disturbing the dust in a bowl of rose-leaves”.

    And of course, “we haven’t even started yet.”

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/electric-war/

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    Dr.Snufflebug


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:17 pm

    I bet you a hundred dollars that nobody around him (friends, family, colleagues), nor he himself called him "Volodymyr" until rather recently.

    Okay, largely irrelevant, but it irks me a fair bit, this cringy forced Ukrainization to cater to the Galician Bandera nutters.

    GarryB, flamming_python, Werewolf, d_taddei2, GunshipDemocracy, thegopnik, Hole and like this post


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

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