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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:56 pm

    German 155mm guns seem not up to the task either:

    artillery systems supplied by Germany are in need of repair due to intensive use on the front in eastern Ukraine. According to German army sources, the Ukrainians are currently firing around 300 shells a day, which is severely wearing down the weapon systems. (Spiegel 47/2022)


    20 out of 30 NATO countries have exhausted their stocks of weapons that they could supply to Ukraine - New York Times

    ▪ this was told by the representative of the alliance. First of all, we are talking about small states. The remaining 10 are still able to supply Kiev with weapons and equipment: among them France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands.

    ▪ Germany, France and the USA also choose weapons for transfer so that they do not touch the territory of Russia (we are talking about the borders of the Russian Federation before the referendum).

    ▪ "Nine months after the start of the war, the fundamental unpreparedness of the West has caused a mad struggle to supply Ukraine with what it needs, as well as to replenish NATO supplies. As both sides are spending weapons and ammunition at a pace not seen since the Second World War, competition to keep arsenals at full level has become a crucial front that could prove decisive for Ukraine's efforts.
    ▪ According to NATO representatives, the amount of artillery used is staggering. In Afghanistan, NATO forces could fire 300 artillery rounds a day and not really worry about air defense. But Ukraine can fire thousands of rounds a day and still desperately needs air defense against Russian missiles and Iranian-made drones.
    ▪ A day in Ukraine is a month or more in Afghanistan," said Camilla Grand, a defense expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations, who until recently was NATO's assistant Secretary General for defense investment. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/26/world/europe/nato-weapons-shortage-ukraine.html


    https://t.me/azmilitary11/29542


    Apti Alaudinov: Russian kamikaze drones are successfully destroying Ukrainian equipment and manpower all along the line of contact

    "We now have a huge number of loitering ammunitions and drones involved, we have started knocking them out in such a way that they suffer huge losses in both equipment and manpower," the Akhmat special forces commander said.

    Alaudinov also said that as soon as Ukrainian troops fire a salvo from US HIMARS, the vehicle on which the system is installed is immediately "hunted down".

    https://t.me/Slavyangrad/22479

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    Post  Erk Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:05 pm

    JohnMK wrote:

    German 155mm guns seem not up to the task either:

    artillery systems supplied by Germany are in need of repair due to intensive use on the front in eastern Ukraine. According to German army sources, the Ukrainians are currently firing around 300 shells a day, which is severely wearing down the weapon systems. (Spiegel 47/2022)

    I presume they are talking about something similar to an m777.

    If they are currently firing 300 shells a day, how many days are they lasting?

    What is the life expectancy of the Russian equivalent?

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:44 pm

    Hole wrote:Read a comment on Twitter a week or so ago, source was a pro-UkroNazi TG channel. There Ukro frontline fighters (Donbass area) complained that their artillery is so weak that the Russians don´t even change their own artillery positions anymore because the Ukros can´t do anything against them. But... "sophisticated western howitzers"
    Even worse. Russian artillerists are so confident of their impunity they are actively rolling up their guns to just beyond ATGM range
    - that's how you they get all those ridiculously accurate hits with unguided rounds.

    One funny poster told the truth, but in reverse. It is the Ukrainian guns that are forced to pull back and fire at the maximum range. They don't do much as a result, since the shells are so wide all they can do is make the targets flinch.

    Firing with max charge is also horrendously taxing on the guns. Those reports of German and French guns out of commission weren't kidding. If it was normal battle wear you can just replace the barrel every 2000 rounds, but if you're firing at the extreme range almost every time - yeah, you're going to have to recondition the whole thing after just a couple hundred of rounds.

    Isos wrote:Even the new russian Koalirsia mounted on a truck is too heavy and too big. They need a smaller truck and sincerly Nora is the best option for a low cost wheeled howitzer to get in huge numbers.
    They have thousands of tracked SPHs in storage alone - thanks but no thanks, they don't need a low cost wheeled howitzer.

    And Koalitsiya-SV is coastal artillery. It would be firing from prepared positions so a massive truck is no issue at all.

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    Post  PhSt Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:57 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    First FOABs on cities, then nukes now famine?

    What is your next suggestion?
    Thermonuclear explosion to keep them warm in winter?
    Locust plague in spring?
    Novichok Artillery in Summer?
    Death star blow in Fall?

    Cruelty must be one of your positive attributes...



    I'm a fair and reasonable person, but also practical. I don't see any good reason to show mercy towards people who wants to kill you or destroy your country. The Pukraine and its NATzO hosts are no saints, they all deserve a ruthless response from the Russians.

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    Post  limb Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:59 pm

    Z channels are posting a video of a russian vehicle being blown up by ukrainians and claiming its actually ukrainian.


    https://t.me/ghostnewsx/2993

    original vid, from november 9
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 Photo_11

    z channels should be more careful

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:01 pm

    So NATzO guns wear out fast. This is all about metallurgy. While the west claims to be number one in technology and science it is clearly not in every field.
    The USSR produced oxygen-rich staged combustion rocket engines which Americans thought were impossible because they could not come up with alloys to
    handle the high heat and ablation. The Shuttle engines used the liquid hydrogen as a coolant for the engine so they are not comparable. Russian gun metal
    clearly has superior wear resistance to NATzO gun metal brands. It's not just some steel.

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    Erk
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    Post  Erk Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:10 pm

    Latest tidbit from Patrick Lancaster

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    Post  kvs Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:12 pm

    At this stage there is no need for Russia to go medieval on Ukrainian civilians. The task of drawing Kiev regime and NATzO volunteer
    meat to the front line grinder is being achieved. The 380,000 mobilized and trained Russian reservists that will become available this winter
    is going to be a pivotal moment for this war. The Kiev regime has lost what capable troops it has had and is engaging in throwing human
    waves at Russian (including Donbass and Wagner) forces.

    The only reason that Russia has not advanced to the Polish border is because it does not have the resources currently deployed to do this.
    This is not a fail no matter how hard the critics bitch and whine. It is the result of not planning to take over the whole country back on
    February 24. The 380,000 additional troops tells me that the plan is still not to take over the whole country. But with this troop number
    Russia will be able to push the Kiev regime forces back with little resistance. No more 10:1 local advantage in meat power for the Kiev
    regime. So Nikolaev and Odessa will be liberated along with Kharkov and everything east of the Dnepr River. It would be nice to liberate
    Kiev, but that requires 300,000+ just for the one city and the propagandized population is hostile. It seems to me based on what Lavrov
    and others have said that Russia is planning for a collapse of the Kiev regime at some stage. So there is probably no need to seize Kiev
    and the bulk of central Ukraine.

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    Post  limb Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:55 am

    Before we talk about western ukraine or koev lets talk about progress measured in meters in donbass. Every city and hanlet in donbass is portrayed as some sort of massive uberfortress.

    Well how about we rank the so called fortresses in donbass in terms of fortification strength

    How would you rank:
    Donetsk airport
    Maiorsk
    Dzerzhinsk
    Maryinka
    Bakhmut
    Peski
    Nevelskoe
    Kurdyumovka
    Pervomaiskoe
    Zaitsevo-veselaya dolina
    Avdeevka
    Ugledar

    Between each other?
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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:28 am

     Erk Today at 1:05 am
    I presume they are talking about something similar to an m777.
    If they are currently firing 300 shells a day, how many days are they lasting?
    What is the life expectancy of the Russian equivalent?


    Nope, they are talking about Panzerhaubitze 2000, this is the only system Germany supplied. This is weird, as they should have some M109 they modernized in the early 00s, and retired 10+ years ago only.
    And there is no good answer to your question.
    There are multiple factors that affect the "lasting" of a gun. In the case of M777 and Pzh2k it turned out, that intensive firing wears some mechanical and hydraulic elements way faster than expected. Much much faster.
    The other, more obvious element affected by the fire intensity is the bore itself. Usually, a field artillery bore should last for approx. 5000 shots. There are specialized tools to measure the bore wear in the process. As lyle6 said, different types of ammo and charges can work more intensely on the bore. For example, 2A46 tank gun of early production was made for 2000 shoots with HE round or missile, but only some 300 full charge APDS. But new modernized guns are stated double of that.
    Soviet guns use two main charges, full and reduced. Full charge is about 9kg, while reduced 4kg. Projectile velocity id much different, so imagine how it affects the bore itself.
    So it is not as much the case of "lasting", but how effective is rotation&repairing system.
    Russia produces all elements for the artillery they are using. All of them are in a process of continuous upgrades and repairs. They have stocks of barrels, hydraulics, and targeting elements. You just replace the things you need in a local repair unit, or replace the gun with a new one, and send the used one to the back, where it will be refurbished at a professional workshop.
    For Ukrs, artillery became another zoo. They are using FIVE different 155mm artillery systems, along with all the junk the EU could dig out from the storages.
    And still the bulk of their artillery is of Soviet heritage they are running out of ammo.
    They lack spares for this zoo, and lack the technical potential to make complicated repairs that let's say Pzh2k needs after the gun lorry is turned into loose junk after three days of fire. So they need to ship it back to Poland for repairs. Each single piece.
    Imagine the logistic nightmare it creates.

    @ "invincibility" of the western Wunderwaffe, just take a look at this :



    That is the difference between something made for war, not parades and threatening of the Aborigines.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:22 am

    I don't see NATO being disbanded, but by spring there is going to be a huge backlash in Europe against the United States

    Its primary purpose is to defend Europe from Russia and seems to be failing miserably... in fact it is making things worse rather than better while being rather expensive to boot.

    For what its worth, a lot of people here in America are very tired of high diesel costs, and we just had our most expensive thanksgiving day ever as that major holiday here cost 15 percent more than last year.

    Tell that to the people in Cuba and Yemen and Iraq and Iran and North Korea and Russia and all the other countries your country has imposed economic sanctions upon to bully them into doing what you want them to do... your country inflicts economic chaos as a tool of control that can be as damaging as the wars you inflict when it suits... which seems to be at the drop of a hat.

    Gas and food prices are on the rise here and people are no longer buying Putinflation.

    The fact that they listen to their own government suggests this might be a good start...

    They are rightly blaming Biden and there is a growing peace movement here and discontent with foreign policy growing.

    But why would Russia want an end to US suffering? This is what the west has been trying to do to Russia... maybe Russia should adopt US goals and start funding a bit of discontent in the US... so many unhappy groups... perhaps Russia could target white men... ironically the only minority not allowed to defend itself because many of the 1% are white males... but 99% of the entire population of white makes are not super rich and super priviledged and have never owned slaves or did anything other than work hard to support their families...

    So while NATO will still exist, at least temporarily its going to have to soften its approach.

    HATO is a tool used by the US to keep France and Germany from getting too friendly with Russia.

    @Lancelot
    But I think the Russians would be fools to accept it. Although knowing Putin he might do that.

    Because Putin is a fool?

    They have many periods of closing off to the West for security reasons, economic decay as a result, then opening up again. It is just that phase right now.

    Except the west is now woke and dysfunctional and not so attractive as it once was... if a rest of the world country wants anything they used to get from the west... they can now get it from China who makes it all anyway...

    I think the west is in for a shock if they think Russia will fade if it turns its back on them...

    The thing is the West can never accept Russia as anything other than a resource colony.

    Which is why Russia is doing the right thing and likely wont come back.

    The west can try to come back to Russia but they will need to show they have changed otherwise there will be no point.

    Well despite the attempts at dressing up any development as a premeditated cunning plan, no I don't think what's happening now was part of anyone's intention.

    Planning by nature has to be flexible and adaptable by nature... I am sure going in to this conflict with their rapid progress they might have thought a rapid enemy surrender some trials and some guarantees and it will be all over, but that didn't happen because despite Kiev wanting to surrender and Boris stopping them from doing so Kiev has now doubled down and couldn't surrender if they wanted to... the only option they are leaving open is a Russian surrender to them, which is ridiculous.

    Currently the plan is to shred the orc forces while losing as few friendly soldiers as possible and this will continue for the foreseeable future.

    Do they have plans to attack Kiev or Odessa... of course they will, it is their job to plan for these and more, but they will have a set of very clear prerequisites before any attacks are even considered... they might be waiting for three weeks of frozen ground, or they might be waiting for that next Kiev escalation or Kiev attack, or perhaps for the west to do something maybe.

    I doubt they would let us know.

    Wheeled platforms are hard to catch, but the weather is not suitable for them.
    I wonder why Russia never had Grads on tracked chassis. Whole Ukraine is MTLB country now.

    The Grad rockets can hit targets 40km away and Smerch 120km away... how hard is it to look at a map and find a road 40km or 120km away from the target you want to engage... drive there... fire and then drive away...

    That said, sending spent missiles as decoys is a ton cheaper than using training missiles used as targets for AD systems.

    Taking out the 400kg warhead means you can fit jammers and other things to balance the missile again... having jammers and perhaps disposable decoys might allow it to defeat dozens of SAMs fired at it... which makes it even more effective...

    You really are itching for a ban PhSt...

    The west is trying to murder Russians, collapse their economy so they starve and freeze and sit in the dark, I can understand PhSts anger and his wish to return the favour in kind.

    Banned for his opinion?

    No.

    You should read Garry's instructions, you link to the post. You might need a picture but the rest of us here are happy to follow a link.

    I think what he did was fine, he just reproduced one image that he was talking about specifically, he did not repost entire extended conversations to make one line comments about one small part of the conversation posted.

    I am happy with that.

    Keep in mind that mid 2000s Putin and co went dancing with the west, in hopes of quick prosperity by being integrated into Western-organized trade, business, etc.

    Why shouldn't they... that was teh promise... you get rid of communism and be welcomed into the international community.

    Putin was the most pro western Russian politician that was not a sellout (ie Navalny).

    The fact that they turned him against the west shows the level of anti Russian BS he had to put up with.

    We had joint military hardware projects between Russia and NATO, we had Russia helping USA/NATO every other time they went into their freedom-excursions (FRY attack is just one instance and possibly the only one they took a hard stance against), western media narrative was far more 'forgiving' to the Russia etc.

    When the west invaded Afghanistan Russia supported them by allowing transport through Russian territory that was safer than through Pakistan... but the west pissed all over that too.

    15 years ago Putin warned them at MSC, but he warned them in hopes that they'll listen, rooted in his hope that he'll achieve quick $ by being a player in the western market.

    You make Putin sound like a criminal wanting to sell out his country to make a quick buck like Georgian and Ukrainian leaders...

    The fact that that is not him is the problem the west has... they didn't want to treat Russia with respect or deal with Russia as an equal so of course nothing works.

    Whoever was in power in 2003 had to ask himself, how do we sustain this growth and generate approval to get reelected again and so on. The answer of Putin's goverment was Western integration.

    Putin is Russian and Russians don't have some idealised comic book vision of war that we have in the west... he knew peace and trade is the solution to Russias problems and would lead to development and growth.

    So I wouldn't be surprised if China takes the Russian "alliance" more cautiously than what Russia needs at the moment.

    There is no Russian alliance... BRICS is about independent countries thinking for themselves... the west opposes BRICS because it is not based on the primacy of the US over everyone else... China wont drop support for Russia to save the US or the EU... it is EU support for the US that is destroying the EU... letting them collapse might be the best thing for them because the US wont save them.

    Will the US even be able to save itself?

    Where I completely disagree with western media is the belief that Russian government knows the ins and outs of geopolitical situation Russia is in and won't head for any pitfalls soon.

    The western media couldn't organise a blow job at an orgy... the Russian government knows Russia has food and everything it currently needs and the rest of the world is much more important than the west in terms of moving forward and developing and growing.

    Russia is not afraid of China growing and developing, it is not afraid of any country growing and developing that it trades with... which scares the shit out of the colonial west because they retain their position because they keep the damn natives down on their knees at their station.

    Russians will drive them first. China is already buying the leftover by western industries and already selling its cars in Russia.

    They are driving them, they sell them everywhere... and they will only get better.

    Europeans will never allow chinese car in Europe, nor will europeans buy chinese shit. They will keep buying europeans brands.

    Yes, the Europeans will ban Chinese cars... they will claim it is safety or China is burning too much fossil fuel or some other BS argument, so Europeans get less choice in terms of cars. China can sell to the rest of the world so they wont care, but if the EU ban Chinese cars then China will ban European cars and of course with no cheap energy European cars will be made in the US... with big subsidies... how long before those Euro cars can no longer turn corners?

    Even the new russian Koalirsia mounted on a truck is too heavy and too big.

    Its next gen guided HE round will reach 180km so how heavy is too heavy?

    They need a smaller truck and sincerly Nora is the best option for a low cost wheeled howitzer to get in huge numbers.

    They have a range of gun sizes and truck sizes already.

    First FOABs on cities, then nukes now famine?

    What is your next suggestion?
    Thermonuclear explosion to keep them warm in winter?
    Locust plague in spring?
    Novichok Artillery in Summer?
    Death star blow in Fall?

    Cruelty must be one of your positive attributes...

    The US pushed for this conflict to overthrow Putin in some violent regime change... and they fund the deaths of Russian soldiers and Russian civilians...

    This conflict will end when the Ukrainian people have had enough and rise up against their own government who is murdering Russians in their name and has been for the last 8 years... to prolong it would be the real cruelty.

    China knows its next if Russia is defeated

    China didn't forget Pelosi in Taiwan, nor the Coronavirus accusations, nor the arrest of executives in Canada, nor the US and Australia enacting trade barriers to it, nor the hysteria over Huawei and its banning from Western markets, nor the 'QUAD' set up by the US to isolate it or the later AUKUS, nor the protests orchestrated by Soros in Hong Kong, nor its attempt to buy Motor Sich in the Ukraine being frozen out by Washington, nor a bunch of other things.

    Australia does not need nuclear powered submarines to operate around Australian waters and protect Australian territory... they need SSNs to operate a few thousand kms to its north with a nuclear sub base that US subs could operate from too....

    Hell of a sniper he must be, to destroy a BMP

    Actually it would be an interesting tactic to attack a BMP with HEAT grenades dropped directly down from a drone but with sniper cover so any crew in the BMP open hatches and try to shoot at the drone get picked off by the sniper...

    I hope mobilized will not be sent to the front with this equipment:

    Not every target needs to be engaged at enormous distances... sometimes a rolling barrage of HE rockets in front of advancing troops means they stop or get killed... no need to waste 120km range 300mm rockets for that.

    Before we talk about western ukraine or koev lets talk about progress measured in meters in donbass. Every city and hanlet in donbass is portrayed as some sort of massive uberfortress.

    Progress measured in metres is meaningless, how about regions of the Ukraine so pissed off with their own country that they will change identity and become a different country... so far it is 5 to nil.

    Currently the BBC... a hostile Russia hating organisation estimates about 10K dead Russian Soldiers compared with 100+K dead Ukrainian soldiers estimated by Ukrainian sources... neither having any interest in inflating those numbers beyond a few thousand to sound balanced.

    They are using FIVE different 155mm artillery systems, along with all the junk the EU could dig out from the storages.

    Another factor is that within HATO many countries develop and produce their own guns and their own special ammo to get the most out of their own guns and sometimes their ammo might exceed the HATO specification on pressure and temperature to achieve a little better range so getting a mix of different 155mm shells and a mix of different guns for those shells will be interesting because I doubt they will know which will go with which and certainly wouldn't care.

    Loading CAESER shells into German or American guns might not be safe and they are finding out they wear out the gun faster than it should... much like the change of ammo for the M16 was its downfall in Vietnam... lots of very bitter men there about that...

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:35 am

    It is inaccurate, first of all.
    The best example would be the story of Ukro made 152mm ammunition that ended up in a disaster, with rounds flying at random ranges and azimuth, and not exploding at the end. And even if by some miracle it hit the required aiming point, and detonated because the fuze accidentally worked as planned, it turned out that the number of splitters does not match half of the Soviet-made ones Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Using a different velocity/charge ammo in a gun requires changing the ballistic charts.
    Sure it can be done, but requires a skilled crew, some time and attention.
    Hardly believe Ukrs having any left.
    That might be the case of the reported marginalization of Ukr artillery on the battlefield, not the terroristic attacks.
    They are already using Pakistanian made 122 mm ammo, Iranian made 122 mm ammo that was sized on route to Yemen.
    They are using Bulgarian 152mm ammo, and that applies to both old stocks (the muddy ones left after flooding in 2007?!?) and newly produced ones.
    They are using Czechoslovakian made 152 mm ammo for v. 77.
    It is fukin' circus with all the animals on a rampage, while the clown hides behind the orchestra.

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    Post  Hole Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:21 am

    Even the new russian Koalirsia mounted on a truck is too heavy and too big. 
    The truck is lighter then that of the Smerch. If Smerch can move around there is no reason why Malva or wheeled Koalitsiya guns shouldn´t be able to.

    Transport infrastructure in Krivoy Rog has been hit.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 Fij6ub10
    Drone was brought down by EW
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 Fij-zj10
    Coffins look small

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    Post  Regular Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:36 am

    limb wrote:
    Z channels are posting a video of a russian vehicle being blown up by ukrainians and claiming its actually ukrainian.


    https://t.me/ghostnewsx/2993

    original vid, from november 9

    Lack of footage and low quality channels. Been like this for long time. Both sides are not reliable narrators, beat to get info from direct source

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:43 am

    Post Hole Today at 12:21 pm

    Coffins look small


    Graveyard space optimization is a factor for Ukropia.

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    Post  franco Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:08 am

    Military correspondents note a significant increase in the accuracy of artillery fire of the RF Armed Forces


    The effectiveness of artillery fire has improved significantly, although there is still room for improvement. Until recently, one could only dream of such a thing.

    This opinion was expressed in the Telegram channel "Older than Edda".

    This author and other military correspondents note a significant increase in the accuracy of artillery fire of the RF Armed Forces.

    "Eyes" detect the enemy in the forest, or open his preparation for the attack, he is immediately struck by an artillery strike - describes the actions of the Russian artillery "Older than Edda", illustrating his words with video frames.

    Deputy Minister of Information of the DPR Daniil Bezsonov in his TG also described one episode of the work of artillerymen of the 5th brigade of the 1st army corps. Then our drone detected a moving pickup truck with the Ukrainian military. He was hit right there and then.

    Military correspondent Alexander Kots also notes on the Telegram channel an increase in the effectiveness of artillery work. He believes that this happened due to changes in the tactics of interaction between units. If earlier the coordinates of the targets and the order to open fire often came to the Russian gunners too late, when the enemy had already redeployed. Now, the special forces units, having discovered the object, immediately transmit information about its location directly to the battery.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/205763-voenkory-otmechajut-suschestvennoe-povyshenie-tochnosti-vedenija-artillerijskogo-ognja-vs-rf.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  franco Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:13 am

    “They covered the withdrawal, someone had to stay”: those released from captivity spoke about the last battle


    The released prisoners of war told how their last battle took place and how they fell into the hands of Ukrainian nationalists.

    Six of the soldiers covered the withdrawal of their comrades during the retreat at Krasny Liman. When the ammunition ran out, they were surrounded by the enemy, and the soldiers were taken prisoner. It was not a voluntary surrender - almost all of them were injured, and no one had the strength to continue the fight, but not a single fighter raised their hands.

       “In the last battle, no one could make combat contact, because we were wounded, bled, barely moving. So, voluntarily, none of our prisoners was taken, no one raised their hands, they held the machine gun to the last, ”shared one of the released prisoners of war.

    Ukraine and Russia have recently been actively negotiating the exchange of prisoners. On Sunday, November 26, 9 Russian servicemen returned to the territory of the Russian Federation , before that exchanges of 35 for 35 and 50 for 50 took place. ■

    https://tvzvezda-ru.translate.goog/news/20221127415-AXbaZ.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui

    NOTE: read that last week there was 94 Russian POW's released in total including those from Luhansk and Donetsk units. In return 94 Ukrainian servicemen and 4 civilians were released.

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    Post  Belisarius Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:44 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 Img_2212
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 Img_2213
    🇷🇺🇺🇦 Damaged self-propelled guns PzH 2000 of the Ukrainian army somewhere in the zone of the SMO
    https://t.me/intelslava/41902?single

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    Post  lyle6 Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:07 am

    Seems like it ate a shaped-charge bomblet or two with little ill effects. That roof armor really paid for itself.

    Bit stupid to confirm that bit of information for everyone though.


    Last edited by lyle6 on Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  limb Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:43 am

    Military correspondents note a significant increase in the accuracy of artillery fire of the RF Armed Forces


    The effectiveness of artillery fire has improved significantly, although there is still room for improvement. Until recently, one could only dream of such a thing.

    This opinion was expressed in the Telegram channel "Older than Edda".

    This author and other military correspondents note a significant increase in the accuracy of artillery fire of the RF Armed Forces.

    "Eyes" detect the enemy in the forest, or open his preparation for the attack, he is immediately struck by an artillery strike - describes the actions of the Russian artillery "Older than Edda", illustrating his words with video frames.

    Deputy Minister of Information of the DPR Daniil Bezsonov in his TG also described one episode of the work of artillerymen of the 5th brigade of the 1st army corps. Then our drone detected a moving pickup truck with the Ukrainian military. He was hit right there and then.

    Military correspondent Alexander Kots also notes on the Telegram channel an increase in the effectiveness of artillery work. He believes that this happened due to changes in the tactics of interaction between units. If earlier the coordinates of the targets and the order to open fire often came to the Russian gunners too late, when the enemy had already redeployed. Now, the special forces units, having discovered the object, immediately transmit information about its location directly to the battery.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/205763-voenkory-otmechajut-suschestvennoe-povyshenie-tochnosti-vedenija-artillerijskogo-ognja-vs-rf.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Soviet artillery in WW2 was also noted to have slow targeting speed compared to US, german and british artillery, mostly relying on preplanned barrages, due to an excessively long killchain, lack of trained observers, preference to fire in direct fire, and lack of radios. Seems like russians are relearing this painful lesson, although the problem is mostly bureaucratic and in lack of training rather than technology.


    Seems like it a shaped-charge bomblet or two with little ill effects. That roof armor really paid for itself.

    Bit stupid to confirm that bit of information for everyone though.
    Thats why russia needs those heat seeking EFP submunitions of the smerch in much more massive quantities.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:36 am

    Broski wrote:Nora is unproven in combat and there's no way in hell that Russia is going to be Serbia's beta testers.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 1024px-NORA-B52_M15

    Serbia won't be able to sell anything to Russia, it will immediately be sanctioned to hell by the EU and US and Kosovo will flare up again

    Otherwise I wouldn't have anything against trailing out Serbian equipment and setting up mass-production of it if its useful.
    Worked out well with Iran so far.

    But in terms of the Nora specifically, there is little point as Russia has been developing its own wheeled 152mm system, the Malva

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 1630211452_1616237399_1610457683_1595247303_5629669
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #33 - Page 19 2021-m10

    Matter of fact state trials should be concluded this year, if they weren't already.
    We might see it on the battlefield next year if it has passed everything successfully

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:48 am

    caveat emptor wrote:@Isos
    They should have bought serbian wheeled howitzers. They are cheap, effective and use 152mm rounds.

    Unfortunately, NORA self-propelled howitzers would not be a good fit as they have a lot of Western components. Even steel for barrel is coming from Slovenia. We lost a lot of competencies last 30 years.

    We haven't lost any competence because we never had any to begin with, all advanced industries were located in Slovenia and Croatia and intentionally so

    Everything new you see now is being built from scratch



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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:52 am

    PhSt wrote:Now that most of the power infrastructure in NAZI Pukraine has been vaporized, Russia military needs to divert about 50% of new missile and Geran strikes to food storage and water facilities...

    Not so fast

    There's still way too much electricity available in Ukraine, destruction of energy grid and power plants is still long way off from being complete


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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:41 am



    Ben Wallace is living in cloud cuckoo land. Superior Arctic equipment from NATzO. lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1

    Kiev regime keeping up the pressure? Where? They can't even fully control Kherson on the west bank which Russia vacated.

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    Post  limb Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:30 am

    https://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/poshel-na-h-y-arestovich-otvetil-na-prosbu-pisat-na-ukrainskom-yazyke-1512857.html

    In a more lighthearted moment, I found an article from 2021 that showed Arestovich telling a Ukrainian commenter to go **** himself when asked why he speaks russian at a delegation. lol! lol!

    Im really confused. Does anyone else wonder why Arestovich doesn't get any flak for always speaking russian? I feel like hes secretly pro-russian because he was a eurasianist before and is single handedly discrediting Ukrainian propaganda with his claims.

    Why is Arestovich called Ukraine's "Goebbels"? Arestovich is usually level headed and often times admits Ukrainian troops are losing. Kuleba, andrey melnik or the kyiv independent is more like Ukraine's Goebbels.


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