For me it shows only one thing :
A political / strategic failure, rather than a tactical / technological one
The thing is that Russia does not have unlimited air defence vehicles and equipment so if you want every little town and village and bridge and power station and everything else to be guarded you wont be able to put three batteries at each location... if you tried then there would be enormous numbers of potential targets you can't protect and of course they are going to be the ones that they attack.
I think it is rather impressive that Russian air defence is such that they try day after day to find gaps in the defence and most of the time they fail.
Of course if you concentrate your resources eventually you will find a gap... to call that a victory is amusing.
As for GarryB: you said starlink was the reason for rapid advance of VSU-
I disagree, they did not advance rapidly, it took them 23 days to take Kupyansk and Liman
Against 1000 Rosgvardiya and Sobr forces
I meant rapid in the sense that it was really the first time they took ground from Russian forces that hadn't already been given up and they just moved into.
Coordination of forces is critical and if Russia can do something about Starlink then the Orcs have zero chance at all because an enlarged Russian force on attack will simply mop them up like the rubbish they are.
You know why they advanced at all? Because it was 20,000 of them vs 1000 police troops
I do know that and I think that is a Russian victory, because they cannot continue like this... a bit like the US and its monetary policy and management of its own finances... it cannot go on... it is simply not sustainable.
So to correct , C4ISR from starlink had a minimal impact, but the ratio of manpower did have a huge impact
There I disagree... just plain manpower rushes don't work... without management and coordination and communication such things end in slaughter and not much else.
Moving forward with large numbers of men means you can probe the enemies defences and find weak points but without communication and control you can't exploit those weakpoints. Without starlink they would not be able to communicate and push in weak areas and concentrate forces in those weak areas to gain ground.. and once you have the enemy back pedaling you can then swing around and attack some of the units beside them from a second direction which puts more pressure on them... all this needs planning and coordination... taking in information from the battlefield in real time and using it to direct troops and form pockets.
Now these strikes in Belgorod are played again as a failure of Russian weapons
A terrorist act of a desperate terrorist state... they are digging their nails into your hands as you hack their head off... now you can stop hacking their heads off and cry about the pain in your hands or just get the job done and send these witches to hell.
And it is not Pantsir fault, that Ukros are volleying less than 70km from Belgorod - it is the failure of Putin and the leadership to push back Ukraine 300km from the border to deny them strike ability so that systems are not overwhelmed at civilian airports
Putin didn't give them the weapons they are using and promised not to use against Russian territory to those who gave these systems to them.
In war there are losses... if you are going to squeal and bitch and moan and cry about every little pinprick attack then stop watching... war is not for you.
You can't have a slaughterhouse without blood on the floor or your clothes...
This is why we have trolls like Rob Lee passing this off - because of ineptitude to allocate proper troop numbers, and inability to create a buffer from Russian and Belarusian territory
Why do we have members posting his shit propaganda... most of the time they remove his name because they know he is full of shit but they post it anyway.
But if you want to let them hit Russian cities and not the other way around, sure keep supporting this leadership
You are watching a master chief make a meal and you are crying because the eggs and flour are making a mess and oh he is using so many bowls and dishes that will need to be washed.
Have you ever been on a construction site for a new building... all the mess everywhere and all the incomplete jobs that need to be done... but they need to be done in order... you don't lay the carpet and paint the walls at the start... you leave that as long as possible so that people doing other jobs don't mess up the carpet or mark the paint on the walls.
And Tochka missiles have reached their withdraw-by date. They're solid fuel, only lasting about 30 years or so.
They can use the same optics package that the Iskander uses, which means the price was not that much less, but the range was less and the Tochka uses external tail grid fins for manouvering in flight while Islander uses thrust vectoring and it is rather more effective.
I guess it's possible to revamp the facilities and produce new rockets; but for the same expense and trouble why not produce missiles for a new system instead?
Now that the INF treaty is gone I do hope they develop a range of rocket and scamjet powered medium range and intermediate range missiles...
And that's the whole point of a mobile long-range MLRS with precision-fire rounds
Do you suppose NATO will do any better against Smerches?
The core point is that HATO will be able to track Iskanders but will not likely be able to do anything about them...
The Tochkas too have been giving trouble to Russia in terms of hunting them down. Because they can be fired, driven off and hidden.
The saving grace however is that the Russians have enough SAMs to shoot them down... HATO is going to have to be very selective about what they use AAMs and SAMs against because they will likely run out of both rather quickly.
George1 is back
Not sure he left unless the threads on this forum are auto editing to 40 pages and then automatically starting new threads to continue discussions.
I suspect he didn't post because he had nothing to say...
The smart ones read more than they post... and yes hahaha... I do post a lot.
Iran is behaving very well with Russia. Better than the fucking Chinese.
Iran isn't really being given a lot of choice but they realise they have a better future dealing with Russia than the west.
The Chinese have a lot invested in the west and lots of ties to the west and I don't think they are ready to just cut all ties like Russia essentially just has.
But the US is the sort of country that demands blind support... even when the countries they demand support from can't expect any in return...
If you don't blindly support the US then you are the enemy and all Americas proxies are your enemies too.
The Chinese don't really have to reject the west and attack the US... the US and the west are doing it for them... China is the next biggest threat to western hegemony... they will say China is the biggest threat to world stability or peace or the economy or some other such BS, but the real threat is to the US controlling world structures...
The vast majority of Jews are Zionists and swear allegiance to Israel.
True, but lots of other non jews don't care either way and think Israel is a victim because the Palestines are terrorists or communist or some other thing or another.
There are also plenty of jews who think Israel is wrong and can only bring hate towards jewish people everywhere.
When you pick a promised land you need to always check it is empty first before you go in and start changing the wallpaper and the curtains.
What new offensive are you talking about, FP?
Areas of regions that just voted to join the Russian Federation are currently partially occupied by Kievs troops, so even if Putin is happy with these four new regions as part of the RF and that is all he wants they still have to clear the region of enemy troops and of course the artillery threat now means pushing deep into territory they might not even want to secure these regions of the Russian Federation from terrorist attack... the same way they pushed into Georgia in 2008 to secure weapons and artillery and equipment dumped by retreating Georgian forces to prevent them ending up in the wrong hands.
Note in Georgia they mostly pulled back again once the job was done.
At any moment now or in a couple weeks still ?
Timing it to damage Democrat election chances would be a nice touch...
Missiles for tochka are cheaper to produce than iskanders. They are simplier.
You say that without actually knowing. AFAIK the Tochka-U the Russians were using unifed parts and things with the Iskander like the optical guidance and the warheads, so I rather doubt there was an enormous price difference.
Luna-M/frog-7 is a good cheap basis to a new cheap system with better precision. That's what Iran successfully developed
The precision comes from the guidance system and navigation attack system, so taking that from the Iskander and fitting it to a FROG-7 would just make the FROG-7 a short ranged guided Iskander that is no longer cheap.
The Tochka replaced the FROG-7 in service and for the very reason that one guided Tochkas was more useful than 100 unguided FROGs.
MLRS cover an area with frag warhead. Ballistic missiles are precision weapons that take out entire buildings. Two different systems. MLRS can't replace BM.
Guided ballistic missiles are overkill for many battlefield targets like aircraft sitting on the ground or SAMs or radars or armoured vehicles.
The Smerch can use up to 100kg warheads and can use single warheads and cluster warheads for point and area targets respectively... in comparison a Tochka or Iskander can reach further and take on heavier targets, but are not so efficient against individual vehicle targets like a guided Smerch rocket is.
Even the anti armour guided rocket with 5 submunitions with top attack self forging fragments can select and attack their own targets as they fall, which would allow groups of vehicles to be attacked and taken out.
With a more modern solid fuel, they could have a tochka with 250km range. Plenty of target in that range.
They are not idiots... when they stopped making Tochkas they increased production and deployment of Iskander to use instead.
Iskander is not produced in huge quantity.
They are... they will run out of targets before they run out of missiles.
No matter what ypu say. Just go check iranian underground stock bases, they have thousands of missiles inside of them and plenty of such bases. Iskander use too many components and its production is way slower and more complicated than dumb BM with a cheap guidance system in the head.
You could fire 1,000 cheap dumb ballistic rockets and not hit anything with them... that is why they stopped making FROG-7 rockets and started making guided Tochka missiles... AKA SS-21 Scarab missiles.
Most of the targets, even nato once, require just a good accuracy. And MLRS can't do the work against them.
The thing is that it makes more sense to use guided 300mm Smerch rockets out to say 200km where a specialised warhead of perhaps 20-30kg would obliterate a vehicle or small position like a bunker or section of trench, and for the harder targets like fuel depots and ammo and arms dumps and bridges and HQs or barracks with lots of men inside that needs a 650kg warhead to do it some justice then they have the current Iskander missiles.
Now the INF treaty is ripped up they can extend its range and added booster stages and use exotic propulsion like scramjets and get weapons of any range they want.
They have been talking about cheap guided weapons of a range of 500-1500km, but I suspect small air launched cruise missiles would better fit that niche.
Russian smerch are being destroyed by Ukr. Nato will be able too.
Russian Smerch rockets will be getting fired at a rate of 1000 to one compared with Orc weapons... I rather doubt they have the missiles to stop them... they will be saving SAMs for more valuable targets.
Makes me think that all the talk about "rasputitsa" putting a clamp on military campaigns is not close to the mark. Seems
like some sort of action is imminent and it is not just the missile attacks.
Surprise is important and everyone in the west thinks they will wait till winter makes the ground suitable for movement.
They say they have 10k soldiers in Belorussia. Not enough. And the mobilized still have not ended their training.
Depends on what they are doing there, they claim they are there to protect from a Kiev attack or HATO supported attack, which would mean that is plenty.
Smerches are typically used differently in Russian service, than the HIMARS are as almost guerilla-warfare instruments in Ukrainian service;
HIMARS make sense for the US and HATO because the tracked M270 is enormously expensive and is based on the Bradley chassis which only the US uses so it is a new logistics burden for most HATO countries, and they managed to make cheap simple devastating fire power system into expensive.
Don't know what their policy on relocation and such is. But they'll be able to relocate at will without thinking about whether they will be detected by the enemy. Moving will always be preferable to hiding.
Orc commanders complaining about their lack of drones means they can only fire on fixed known target coordinates which means Russian military forces are mostly safe but civilian targets in the region are not.
So now your turn. Show me those destroyed HIMARS or Cesar that got destroyed.
You are taking the word of nazis. The Ukraine had large numbers of Smerch and MSTA vehicles too but we are to believe their claims these ones are Russian?
Psychosis is when people lose some contact with reality. Mass formation psychosis is when a large part of a society focuses its attention to a leader(s) or a series of events and their attention focuses on one small point or issue.
The Americans are the most medicated people on the planet and I suspect drugging those conscripts and getting them to march forward so they can look at where the Russians are firing from would be how they would do things...
Do we really want Fascist vermin trying to spin their filth on a Russian Defence forum of all places?
I am sympathetic to what you are saying but where should lines be drawn.
Do you think banning people rids the world of what they represent?
Will banning racists stop all racism... more importantly if some white person goes on a rant about stupid black people, that of course is unacceptable racism, but if a white person has a rant about all the damage bloody white people have done around the place is that acceptable racism?
How about racist stereotypes... blacks are stupid is bad, but blacks are good at sport and have large dicks is OK.
If I start banning people for their views on different things the other people are just going to conceal their real views.
Isolating those who think differently to try to get them to conform with what you think is normal or acceptable... well that is what the west is doing to Russia and China and the rest of the world... ironically except Israel who can do as they please it seems.
Its foolish to attack Kiev. They really need to focus all their efforts on closing the western border. Ukraine CANNOT continue if they do this. It will be just like the Gulf of Inchon attack. We all know the Ukraine military is on a western lifeline. Cut that and you are cutting the jugular vein.
It would be easier to encircle and siege Kiev than to cut off any border... they don't have to take Kiev... but I agree that the NPPs are probably more important targets.
Big birds are coming
They are propeller driven so they would be subsonic... the Russian military likely has thousands of supersonic and transonic jet propelled anti ship missiles with better speed and better range and bigger warheads...
But these look interesting too.
If like you say, russian weapons are the best, produced in quantities more than needed and used very well, can you then explain us why this russian general that is in charge of the war is buying iranian drones and missiles and changing the whole strategy after he bought iranian stuff ?
He has been in his position a week and all of a sudden Iranian drones were his idea and now we are talking about Iranian ballistic missiles too?
I haven't found Smerch footage. I quickly look on twitter to provide yoy some footage. But Uragan is in the same class.
Uragan has less than half the range of Smerch.
Uragan and Msta S are behind the frontline troops. Managing to capture them is a big achievement.
Ukrainian ones are not behind Russian lines...
The price of one UAV is about $800. That is negligible.
That is less than the US will be charging Kiev for M4 rifles... so this new guy in charge managed to get these drones into production and into use before he took command... is there no miracle he cannot perform...
Ukrainian forces from the 93rd Mechanized Brigade destroyed a Russian T-90M outside of Bakhmut, Donetsk Oblast
Looks like smoke coming from the turret bustle... but the turret bustle on the T-90 is not connected to the crew compartment... ammo and propellent stubs is carried in the turret bustle but to actually use it you have to climb out of the turret and open the rear bustle and hand the rounds into the commanders hatch to load into the auto loader. Ammo burning in the turret bustle is not a huge problem because there are only about 8 rounds there and they are contained in water so one burning is unlikely to cause any explosions or set off other rounds there.
I'm curious where were the stocks of Russian Tochka ? I remember some of their missile regiment only get equipped with Iskander at 2019's. Meaning that there could still be relatively -large- amount of this missile.
It sounds like they transferred quite a few to Belarus...
I saw that the engine used for that drone is a copy of a german engine and it cost a couple thousand of dollars.
You don't set up a production line that easily. Il-76 have flown from iran which suggest hardware transfert.
This has 0 credibility. But the production line is probably being set up.
You are assuming they listen to your advice and only just decided that drones are useful.
They have years of experience in Syria with Iranian drones and likely tested their own and Iranian drones there.
They have a strong materials industry and aerospace capacity and could probably build drones on a massive scale if they decided it was necessary.
They knew their goal was to damage the AD capacity of the Ukraine and once it was sufficiently weakened that lots and lots of drones would be useful... they clearly had experience with these Iranian drones so licence production makes sense.
Regarding the motors there is no need to use high quality metalurgy and fine precision motors for these drones that are going to be run for a few hours at best... mass producing cheap simple engines is not hard... they might even offer to sell to Iran larger better quality engines for non suicide drones that are to be used repeatedly till they are shot down.
They are also working on a wide range of electric motors that would be much quieter for when that is useful.
The noisy engine in this case adds to the fear these things should cause.
The Kiev regime needs to be removed by physical force. Send commandos and Chechens in to kill whoever hasn't yet fled to Poland. Burn the US embassy to the ground. Then take someone from the Ukraine military and make them sign a peace deal.
They certainly need to be eliminated, but attacks towards Kiev will weaken defences down south in territory Russia benefits from taking... I would say the NPPs are more important than Zelensky... but then internal opposition to the war would be a better solution too.
Engine is simple design, but it is not a lawnmower engine as people call it.
There are simpler engines they could redesign it to use if needed.. the original buzz bomb used a very very simple jet engine that is still in use by drones today.
Maybe $8k and that is very doubtful. Even for very large orders. Components come from Iran or China. There has to be a mark up, as well.
Why would it be that expensive?
They are making it themselves so there would be no markup, and moulded plastic is cheap and simple.
Even fibreglass would be cheap and strong enough.
That's a mirror answer to HIMARS!
A mirror answer to HIMARS would be for Russia to send Iskander technology to Iran to make their ballistic rockets even harder to intercept...
Not 800 cheap but yeah.
$800 US dollars for the Russians to make... perhaps $1K to Iran for each one they make in royalties...
Apparently kamikaze drones. Ukrainians are demanding more air defence from NATO. Does it make sense to use a 1M missile to stop a 20K drone with a 50 KG warhead?
The US government would take that as being a bargain, and a nice tidy profit for the US company that makes their missiles.
You can clearly see Russian markings on them, which would be unusual for a drone manufactured in Iran. I bet the shipments from Iran are the electrical components / assembled boards for them. Assuming they're able to manufacture even just >=50 of them per day, I don't believe any existing air-defense would be able to cope well with a sustained campaign; it's simple math.
I would think datalink electronics might be Russian and of course the Russians could add GLONASS receivers to the system to improve accuracy (and share those same receivers with Iran to improve their drones as well).
I would think the Russians would be interested in the motors... their level of metalurgy should allow them to make simple and cheap copies of the engines the Iranians use and perhaps help them make the motors cheaper by using cheaper materials where possible.
They only have to operate for a few hours reliably and if anyone wonders about Russias capacity to design good enough with cheap and simple... compare the T-34 with the Tiger or Panther.
The engine is most likely a 2 stroke diesel engine, an upscaled RC type engine. Probab needs less then 20 HP. These engines are cheap and use a mixture of kerosene and ether so they can operate on the diesel cycle with lower compression ratio. In volume you can make this type of engine for maybe $100. Esp since it does not have to be too durable and runs on a fixed throttle setting. If you think about it RC type servos for control, a small 12V battery and a $50 of electronics. Its really not that hard. If you want more sophisticated targeting then the price goes up. But to hit a fixed target or home in on a laser. Its pretty cheap.
All the footage we have been seeing has a drone in overwatch positions spotting the target... certainly a video camera in the suicide drone that can see in IR would detect an IR laser spot easily enough... a short flash to indicate the target as the drone approaches could be used to achieve a lock... I have an IR camera with a normal CCD camera able to detect IR frequencies that cost about 20 New Zealand dollars so that would be less than 10 US dollars.
The electronics required to process that video date would be less that what is fitted to most current cell phones, so the claim of $800 US dollars could be right on the money... I have no reason to doubt it and it seems to be a very specific number... would normally expect 1K or less than 2K or some such number.
There have been many Russian offensives since the SMO started.
Why now, did Russia warn China?
Create tension and pressure...
Nobody ever saw a mythical "180km range" Tochka, including the users in GDR, Bulgaria or Czechoslovakia.
It is a myth or - more possible - some never finished project put into a drawer.
All the improvements in solid rocket propellent but no range increase for Tochka?
Can't use it for Iskander for obvious reasons, but for Tochka and improved models of Smerch...
If I met you, I'd happily put a bullet in your head.
Now sling your hook, leave the forum and preferably kill yourself you Nazi piece of shit.
This is the sort of thing I do ban people for... please do not threaten other members.
Reading his posts without being angry, he does not seem to be supporting Kiev and rather seems to be supporting Russia instead.
Perhaps we can all calm things down and accept that there might not be any solutions, but the solution of killing each other should not be the first or second choice.
Talking about it calmly and sensibly and accepting that not everyone is going to agree with you is important moving forward.
I would like to say I am not a communist, but I do believe that true communism is as impossible to achieve as a free market economy and open trade.
I personally think big business and private ownership should have nothing to do with providing the public with healthcare or education or police and security.
Last week he said that the financial condition of the U.K is so precarious that they are now approaching China to bail them out financially.
Translation - it's only a matter of time that U.K is unable to support Ukrainian war efforts which they are currently spearheading.
London is the financial centre of Europe... I wonder how long that is going to last before Germany and France want it shifted to their country.
Of course Germany wont have an industry soon so they might want to compensate by becoming an economic centre... and of course France will not do business in Germany so they will need their own centre too...
Surovikin has exactly the right idea, not in terms of using drones but of dealing a knockout blow to end the war. Although I do believe that this move has been months in the making and predates Surovikin.
Yeah, so many seem to think it is just a knockout blow and it all ends.
Personally I am thinking Russian forces in larger numbers need to push Orc groups out and shred them as they go... now that Orc air defence is weakened now is a good time to use drones, which previously would have taken up a lot of manpower to use which would have distracted from artillery which I believe would be more effective.
I think the Russians will push towards Kiev but only to surround it again and draw forces away from the east and south, and when that is achieved they will strike across the south and try to cut off Odessa and start referendums in the places they capture... with the orcs and nazis gone I rather expect the votes to join Russia or at least leave Kievs grasp will result in the neutrality that Russia is seeking to create... as pro Russia areas grow and even anti kiev neutral areas grow then potential alternatives to Zelenskys rule can be created and groomed to replace him.
Theyre actually all cardboard decoys because Ukrainianscare so good at disguise
They fool the west to think they are not nazis every day...
They are not bad at disguise...
More evidence that ATACMS has indeed been delivered by U.S to Ukraine
Also they have women in their front line units now... shortage of men?
PS I can't help but to find it amusing that out of all the vaunted "game changers" we've seen so far, the first actual one seems to be this plastic lawnmower "Dorito" that costs little more than a hobby RC jet.
Short of adding GLONASS receivers and making the engine out of cheaper but good enough materials I don't think it was probably worth changing them much...
They would have tested them in Syria for the last few years and probably agreed to licence produce them some time ago too... you can't just start making them in volume... but more importantly the recent vids of the lancet drones show drones flying overwatch so the claims they don't have any drones is clearly bullshit.
And they wanted to join the EU back then.
The EU wanted to join them after they invented democracy and Christianity and etiquette...