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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #29

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:14 am

    ucmvulcan wrote:

    As we say in America, "winner winner, chicken dinner."  Seriously, most of those who come from the west are on here because the news media here is so biased its bordering on propaganda.  If I wanted to read pro Western stuff I'd just turn on the tv and read the top stories on google.  I came here to get the Russian side of the story and I am generally sympathetic to Russia because our foreign policy is a such a nightmare of a shitshow and because I love Russia's language, history, literature, ballet, and film.  From studying Russia's history I am painfully aware of how similar NATO in Ukraine looks to the situation in 1812 and 1941.  Hell, some of the wording of the western propaganda machine looks like something right out of those wars.

    It is not bordering on propaganda, it is full bore hate propaganda consisting of outright fantasy fiction. The western MSM was already in this mode
    decades ago and is not just recently. I recall some hack at the CBC whose coverage of Russia well over 20 years ago was pure cringe. There was
    no balance or attempt at such. Alternative voices only existed in alternative media. Now the move is to suppress these voices to force the proles
    to consume only refined official excrement.

    The current "fall out" with NATzO by Russia was inevitable. The Cold War did not end in 1990 and kept going with new pretexts being used to replace
    the old ones about communism and exporting revolution. I am happy that it has gelled in the minds of Russians that the west is a pathological enemy
    and it is not Russia's alleged bad deeds that are the problem.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:21 am

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    crod wrote:What the heck happened here?
    Concentration lapse is all I can assume?
    https://t.me/grey_zone/15275

    Looks like it.  I would think the driver should see enough of the road to notice the mines.  

    Soldiers are generally sleep deprived at the front.   This is not a minor issue, it can lead to the sort of events captured in the video.


    Considering the constant forgeries on the part of Ukraine, this could be weaponized.
    An empty vehicle (captured or Ukrainian) is used and driven into that area, filming everything, to show any success against the Russians.

    You are right, the video is ambiguous enough that it could be staged.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:49 am

    kvs wrote:
    ucmvulcan wrote:

    As we say in America, "winner winner, chicken dinner."  Seriously, most of those who come from the west are on here because the news media here is so biased its bordering on propaganda.  If I wanted to read pro Western stuff I'd just turn on the tv and read the top stories on google.  I came here to get the Russian side of the story and I am generally sympathetic to Russia because our foreign policy is a such a nightmare of a shitshow and because I love Russia's language, history, literature, ballet, and film.  From studying Russia's history I am painfully aware of how similar NATO in Ukraine looks to the situation in 1812 and 1941.  Hell, some of the wording of the western propaganda machine looks like something right out of those wars.

    It is not bordering on propaganda, it is full bore hate propaganda consisting of outright fantasy fiction.   The western MSM was already in this mode
    decades ago and is not just recently.  I recall some hack at the CBC whose coverage of Russia well over 20 years ago was pure cringe.   There was
    no balance or attempt at such.  Alternative voices only existed in alternative media.   Now the move is to suppress these voices to force the proles
    to consume only refined official excrement.

    The current "fall out" with NATzO by Russia was inevitable.   The Cold War did not end in 1990 and kept going with new pretexts being used to replace
    the old ones about communism and exporting revolution.    I am happy that it has gelled in the minds of Russians that the west is a pathological enemy
    and it is not Russia's alleged bad deeds that are the problem.  

    Cold War era Jackson-Vanick ammendments repealed, only to be immediately replaced by the Magnitsky Sanctions (which were based on a bunch of transparent LIES from a carpetbagger & thief) .  Obvious continuation of cold-warian bullshittery on display to anyone with more than a pair of neurons. angry

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    mavaff
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    Post  mavaff Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:02 pm

    Those Iranian drones seem very effective but with a good AD system like Tugunska and Pantsir I think it should be easy to shoot them down without missiles, just firing rounds (they fly very slowly): this makes their interception pretty inexpensive.
    Don't Ukranians have any Tugunksa left?
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:07 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Elon stops financing the Starlink operations in 404, and asked Pentagon to pay the bills from now on.

    Is it only me, or the guy really went through some metamorphosis? scratch

    Elon is an arm of US intelligence so this is just a way for them to send out public feelers for some sort of peace agreement. I suspect anyway. It could really just be his own latest marijuana fueled idea but does he have the courage or motivation to confront US policy so publicly?

    I personally hope very much for peace but it's useless if the Ukraine is simply armed up again for another confrontation.
    There has to be a recognition of new territorial boundaries, guarantees of access through to Pridnestrovie, and military neutrality with no foreign troops or bases for the Ukraine.
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    Post  RTN Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:07 pm

    Werewolf wrote:You both are showing internet in a nutshell...
    Meaning after you and a few other forum members posted stuff about jews you didn't expect them to come in droves, malign every non jew member all with the intention of defiling the forum? You must be a very simple person.
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:14 pm

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    crod wrote:What the heck happened here?
    Concentration lapse is all I can assume?
    https://t.me/grey_zone/15275

    Looks like it.  I would think the driver should see enough of the road to notice the mines.  

    Soldiers are generally sleep deprived at the front.   This is not a minor issue, it can lead to the sort of events captured in the video.


    Considering the constant forgeries on the part of Ukraine, this could be weaponized.
    An empty vehicle (captured or Ukrainian) is used and driven into that area, filming everything, to show any success against the Russians.

    Especially as there was a simple way through if it was a metre or so to the right.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:27 pm

    mavaff wrote:Those Iranian drones seem very effective but with a good AD system like Tugunska and Pantsir I think it should be easy to shoot them down without missiles, just firing rounds (they fly very slowly): this makes their interception pretty inexpensive.
    Don't Ukranians have any Tugunksa left?

    They had both Tunguska and Tors, but I suppose all are already gone for a while due to a lack of spare parts.
    They were staging some propaganda footage with those, burning them and pretending to be Russian ones.

    What is being revealed in some Russian sources (I was reporting that already), those drones are quite hard to track. Made of plastic, that is more or less transparent to radar. The engine is small, and totally exposed making it perfectly well cooled by the flowing air. That makes it hard to lock on with the MANPADs of the old generation, which is the core of what Ukrs have. The best solution they have is optical tracking and engaging with arms fire, as the only system with an effective optical channel they have is Buk again.
    Sure that some of those drones are being shot down, but they cost close to nothing. Russkie are claimed to purchased additional 2300 pcs of those, and some rumors that those are already produced locally in Russia.

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    Post  franco Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:35 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:Who knows, maybe there will be a "Surovikin" class of aircraft carriers, cruisers or destroyers in the future.
    Time and his actions will tell..
    He seems kind... Laughing  Laughing

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #29 - Page 2 Surovi11




    It takes a period of time for an officer upon assuming a post to even accustom himself to the new responsibilities and requirements, get acquainted with direct subordinates and superiors, and catch up on his paperwork.

    Much less draw up a whole operation together with his staff.

    Whatever's happening right now would have happened anyway, Surovikin or no Surovikin; it has been planned well ahead of time

    1. Surovikin had already taken over command of the southern operation from the Southern Military District Commander while Lapin had taken over the Western operation from the Western Military District Commander or at least some parts. The reasons are apparently self evident. russia

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    Post  psg Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:37 pm

    mavaff wrote:Those Iranian drones seem very effective but with a good AD system like Tugunska and Pantsir I think it should be easy to shoot them down without missiles, just firing rounds (they fly very slowly): this makes their interception pretty inexpensive.
    Don't Ukranians have any Tugunksa left?

    They did, am sure there was a video in the first few weeks where the dumb ba$tards set fire to about 5 or 6 of them, claiming they were captured from the Russian Forces.
    Absolute stupidity, also how many gepards have they left??

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:45 pm

    I higly doubt if Gepard old radar is even capable to find&track this kind of target.
    It is a 60s technology for Gods sake.
    And with the number of those provided by the Germans, they can do shit about a mass strikes.
    I guess the most effective way of using them would be ground support rather than air defence.

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    Post  Isos Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:48 pm

    franco wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:Who knows, maybe there will be a "Surovikin" class of aircraft carriers, cruisers or destroyers in the future.
    Time and his actions will tell..
    He seems kind... Laughing  Laughing

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #29 - Page 2 Surovi11




    It takes a period of time for an officer upon assuming a post to even accustom himself to the new responsibilities and requirements, get acquainted with direct subordinates and superiors, and catch up on his paperwork.

    Much less draw up a whole operation together with his staff.

    Whatever's happening right now would have happened anyway, Surovikin or no Surovikin; it has been planned well ahead of time

    1. Surovikin had already taken over command of the southern operation from the Southern Military District Commander while Lapin had taken over the Western operation from the Western Military District Commander or at least some parts. The reasons are apparently self evident. russia  

    Not really evident. According to people here Russia is doing great since february.

    Can you explain why it is evident to replace former command staff ?

    Alamo is to shy to ask.
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:55 pm

    The last thing than can be said about me is being shy.
    But I won't ask the questions anybody here knows the answer.
    That would be a waste of my time, and I don't like that.
    We can only guess, and the guy is not replacing anyone, but constituting all the powers into one fist.
    Till now, there was no one operational commander for the operation, now he was appointed.
    Was it because of the character of the conflict? IDK. dunno
    And as IDK, I won't make any entries that can sound simply stupid if confronted.
    You are a specialist in making stupid claims with no basis, so be my guest Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    franco
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    Post  franco Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:02 pm

    Difficult choice for General Surovikin

    Why Surovikin? Because this people needs a hero. A hero who will defeat Poganoe Idolishche and bring peace to the peoples, land to the peasants and further on in fairy tales, no matter who wrote them, Russian storytellers or Soviet communists.

    In our country, in general, only a fairy tale story can go to the people, otherwise there is simply no way. Otherwise it is simply impossible to live. And so - sickening, but possible.

    The general himself was not particularly asked, as the same fairy-tale character who is always sent in legends on the most impossible tasks. But Surovikin does not impress Ivanushka or Tom Cruise, and therefore he probably won out such preferences for himself with which his hands will not be tied.

    From the people who studied and served with him, he put together a portrait of a tough, even cruel and pragmatic officer. Not exactly an inveterate careerist, but do not believe those who are not going to the army for a career (according to them). There are no careerists in the army. General Surovikin is ambitious, but in moderation. And this measure is clear to everyone who knows him.

    But the fact that Surovikin is smart and knows how to use his head is noted by everyone. And the charisma of the general too.

    The country does not even need a symbol. The country needs an image

    2014 gave us a lot of images. Poklonskaya, Strelkov, Mozgovoy, Givi, Motorola. Some images then faded and faded, some, alas, became the property of history , having left this world.

    The NWO began as a completely unprincipled event. Moreover, the emphasized vagueness of wordings like "demilitarization" and "denazification" only exacerbated the perception, especially after statements that "the main tasks of the NWO are being carried out." Which... by whom... where...

    Heroes are not needed for an unprincipled event. Yes, they were not. Today, many note that from the very beginning of the special operation, we were not informed about who was in command, who organized, who ...

    As in the immortal reprise of Arkady Raikin: “Who sewed the suit? - We!". That is, the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff. But according to the rules of the game, Shoigu and Gerasimov could not be touched, so all the negativity flew towards Konashenkov, who could not fit into the truthful presentation of what was happening.

    No ideas - no heroes. Somehow it turned out that Kadyrov and Prigozhin got into their role, but you must admit that these are far from the worst candidates. At least Kadyrov says and does what he sees fit, while Prigozhin does. From the heart.

    Exactly those Images that Russia needs. But more is needed.

    And now - "General Armageddon"

    Quite a normal general who suits almost everyone. "Almost" is not just that. But Surovikin suits us, the people, the electorate, first of all, by his mere presence. The special operation has a commander, if you like - responsible for what is happening. Leader.
    This gives a lot, first of all, to those who are trying to understand the situation both as a whole and in parts. To everyone who is sick with soul and heart for those who are there at the front.

    Now at least the SVO has a commander in the eighth month of the war.

    And Surovikin has a very difficult situation. By his appointment (I don’t think that he was specifically asked for consent there, at most they were allowed to bargain) led the so-called “Party of Peace through Victory”. So-so name, but not to call it the "Party of War"?

    We already have the "Party of Peace". Unfortunately. All those statements that fly from a huge number of all sorts of pugache, comb and other runaways are trifles. More important is the big fish.

    The main fish here is Matvienko, if you carefully look at the words. Moreover, not her, but Zelensky. The President of Ukraine signs a shooting decree banning negotiations with Russia for all officials in the country. And almost immediately Matvienko comes out with an appeal to sit down at the negotiating table. Provocation? Maybe. Signal? Not excluded.

    In general, the situation is peculiar. The call "surrender before it's too late" would have been appropriate when the Russian army stood near Kyiv and Kharkov, Chernigov and Sumy. And after the “regroupings”, after the gloomy mobilization, when Russian society is, to put it mildly, agitated – all this looks more than strange. Or even ugly.

    A call for negotiations is a good thing. And negotiations that can save people's lives are beautiful in their essence. The whole question is when is the time for them and when is not.

    Matvienko's act can be compared with an invitation to negotiations in the autumn of 1941. Now, in the eyes of Ukrainians, this looks like a complete weakness. On October 10, a large part of Ukraine was in a great mood and rejoiced at the victory on the Bridge. On October 11, there was much less joy, on October 12 it is generally difficult to judge, because many TG channels of Ukraine fell silent.

    If there really was a safe opportunity to put Matviyenko's Ukrainian colleagues at the negotiating table, then it had to be done for the sake of one thing: to explain how much Zelensky's statements about nuclear strikes cost and how to interpret Zelensky's statements.

    The “inter-parliamentary cooperation” of Ms. Matvienko and her colleagues can be very well assessed by the depth and quality of the work done with such countries as Kazakhstan, Georgia, Moldova, Poland, the Baltic trio ... They now adore Russia and Russians so much that the work done is very noticeable.

    Now the most "worked out" Ukraine has to be worked out by completely non-parliamentary methods.

    In general, those who talk about the "peace party" are somewhat ... optimistic. If you call a spade a spade, it's more like a "party of fear." Yes, fear. These people are very afraid of losing what they have acquired. They are more afraid than Putin and the possible consequences.

    It is these people who, with the help of Deripaska and Abramovich, who are holed up outside the borders, arrange constant attempts at “peace agreements” in Turkey, the Emirates and other quiet places. It was these people who flew in droves, headlong, from Russia. It is these people who, having remained in Russia, carry out activities that are in no way aimed at the good of the country.

    A strange course of hostilities, when the army "forgot" about how easily it occupied Ukrainian territories at the beginning of the NVO and staged a "standing" that ended in "regrouping". This is a complete vacuum of information in the official media, these are constant attempts to shut up the mouths of military commissars and independent journalists, this is bedlam and chaos in the army.

    As expected, almost the entire Russian audience has gone to the Internet, where they obtain information about the course of the NMD, including on Ukrainian resources, where there is more real information than in the reports of the RF Ministry of Defense. And expectedly began to boil from what she sees.

    As an example of such opposition - exchanges. Do we know who was released from captivity, except for the obviously bogus fattened mugs who told how they were starved? And besides Medvedchuk? No. But it is worth seeing how it is served in Ukraine.

    It was these gentlemen from the "peace party" who regularly told Putin tales about how many pro-Russian oligarchs, governors and mayors are in Ukraine, ready to open the gates of their cities to Russian soldiers. About how many in the Armed Forces of Ukraine who want to join the "Russian world" and go over to the side of Russia. And so on, and all the more disgusting.

    And about how to preserve the infrastructure of Ukraine, so that future citizens of Russia, God forbid, would not be offended by anything. There is no need, you understand, to irritate the “fraternal” people with domestic inconveniences.

    Meanwhile, this very “brotherly” people, who were so taken care of, calmly watched and enjoyed the punishment of collaborators in the cities abandoned by the Russian army, discussed the sinking of the “Moscow”, squealed with delight from the explosion on the Crimean bridge.

    It is very difficult to say how many influential people there are in this "peace party", but it is clear that they are decent and they can really influence the processes in the country and beyond. And everything that is happening indirectly indicates that the same Ukrainian infrastructure may belong to non-citizens of Ukraine at all.

    Nothing personal, just business, right?

    Responsibility is what these little people are most afraid of. That you will have to answer for your cowardice and sabotage. For "import substitution", for the Russian army, which is "strongest" (at international competitions and forums) and capable of performing any task, for the wildest bureaucracy in the country, for ruined sectors of the economy, unable to replace anything, for the principle "do not let out, we'll buy everything." For brave reports about how good everything is in our country. For lying.

    You can talk about peace if the country and its army are strong. But not when, having got involved in a war, we find out that there are no reserves, the mobilization stock has been plundered, military enterprises go bankrupt for far-fetched reasons and go under the hammer, the army lacks many necessary things. And when the people begin at their own expense to dress, shoe, supply the army, from which everything has been stolen again before us.

    You can talk about peace when at the top, in the decision-making centers, everyone is united. But no, they are not united. And we are unlikely to see a clear explanation why such a crowd of State Duma deputies voted against the admission of new members to the Federation. Yes, and abstentions are also from the same cohort.

    Now many people will already boil over and start thinking to themselves: “What the hell is he talking about these, and not about Surovikin”?

    Yes, everything is simple. That the general will do his job, I have not the slightest doubt. He will do everything that depends on him. Another question is that behind him there will be a crowd of people who want to save their investments in Ukraine, and therefore in every possible way hinder Surovikin from fulfilling his duty and the orders of the president. After all, Surovikin is a protege of the party that wants peace through victory, and not just peace for the sake of preserving its profits.

    But God forbid, the Americans and the British, who lead the Ukrainians (and they do it, we admit it, great), outplay Surovikin, this is where the very Armageddon will begin. And the general will not be forgiven for anything. And every lost bayonet-knife will be remembered. And they will rinse in a way that no one has bowed before.

    The position of the commander-in-chief of the NWO, which has been empty for eight months, is not an easy place. It can elevate in case of success and drop into the abyss in case of failure. Although, if successful, it can also send you down, in the behind-the-scenes struggle, the members of the "party of fear" have become so adept that they have few opponents.

    I frankly sympathize with Surovikin, on whom so many hopes are pinned today. Praise, give advances and make references. The general took on a very difficult and thankless task, because Ukraine is not Syria at all. But - took.

    It will be very difficult, especially if something goes wrong. Nothing, get used to the screams, to the accusations too. The main thing is that the tasks are performed with as little losses as possible.

    General Surovikin chose a very difficult path for himself, where there are perhaps more enemies behind his back than in front of him. Nothing, there is such confidence that he can handle it.

    https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/203263-slozhnyj-vybor-dlja-generala-surovikina.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  Department Of Defense Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:06 pm

    Kherson offensive stalled because Musk geofenced the access

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    Post  Werewolf Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:09 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Meaning after you and a few other forum members posted stuff about jews you didn't expect them to come in droves, malign every non jew member all with the intention of defiling the forum? You must be a very simple person.
    If you have something to criticize about things I or anyone said, please go ahead and do so.
    But apparently there is nothing you can say other than like always low effort posts.
    You see, jews are not a protected class and Russians in general do not give a flying **** about censorship like westerners who will lick butholes left and right for PC culture.

    Isos wrote:
    Not really evident. According to people here Russia is doing great since february.

    Can you explain why it is evident to replace former command staff ?

    Alamo is to shy to ask.

    You know, there are quite good reasons to have a strategy of rotation of troops, generals and overall involved heads in the operation.
    Trying to have only a handful people skilled and experienced, playing the pillar of all future conflicts against NATO, which are evidently slowly but steadily unfolding before Russia, is very unstable construct to rely on.

    A trained and experienced army from top to bottom will have much higher chances of survival and will achieve goals better than relying on Generals who are reading reports and inner circle hearsay. If they going to be Generals then they may as well do their job and troops will have a much higher moral fighting when their leadership has experience and achievements.

    You can as well believe someone was ineffective and needs a replacement. All is possible, but your attitude seems to be more dooming rather than blooming. Others have cured themselves from mind clogging clouds.

    I would suggest taking a break from social media reports.  
    This is not sarcasm nor some attempt to troll you.


    Last edited by Werewolf on Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  RTN Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:25 pm

    Werewolf wrote:If you have something to criticize about things I or anyone said, please go ahead and do so.
    I've called Isos & Sujoy a "dick" in the past because they couldn't get a simple point, but in hindsight I realize that English is not their first language either which explains their poor comprehension and average writing skills.


    Werewolf wrote:You see, jews are not a protected class and Russians in general do not give a flying **** about censorship like westerners who will lick butholes left and right for PC culture.
    They ain't a protected race in the States either. But they behave that way. Especially that one jew in this forum with multiple accounts...who forces his narrative on others using multiple handles compelling them to shut up.

    Fortunately, for the rest of us there is also a fraud from India who has also created multiple accounts. So the effort of this jew might just shut down a few of those fraudulent Indian accounts.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:26 pm

    ALAMO wrote:The last thing than can be said about me is being shy.
    But I won't ask the questions anybody here knows the answer.
    That would be a waste of my time, and I don't like that.
    We can only guess, and the guy is not replacing anyone, but constituting all the powers into one fist.
    Till now, there was no one operational commander for the operation, now he was appointed.
    Was it because of the character of the conflict? IDK. dunno
    And as IDK, I won't make any entries that can sound simply stupid if confronted.
    You are a specialist in making stupid claims with no basis, so be my guest  Laughing Laughing Laughing


    JAY LENO has more cars than France has tanks and howitzers, so much for the "efficiency" of a country that spends over $50 billion a year on the military.
    In the West, everything is subordinated to the enrichment of the military-industrial complex, not to the creation of an army for a real war.


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    Post  famschopman Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:28 pm

    franco wrote:Difficult choice for General Surovikin

    Why Surovikin?

    The article overlooks an important aspect. In a fast-paced conflict where an opponent is employing pragmatic decision making, acting with flexibility and disregard for human live while supported by a wide variety of intelligence equipment you need to be able to make decisions, fast.

    The early indications of challenges in areas of communication, cooperation and alignment between the various teams battling on multiple fronts required a drastic change. Shortening the command lines does that.

    A dedicated skilled commander who has sufficient mandate to operate efficiently and thus can make decisions fast, anticipate and react on enemy troop movements makes all the difference you need on the battlefield.

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    Post  Isos Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:38 pm

    ALAMO wrote:The last thing than can be said about me is being shy.
    But I won't ask the questions anybody here knows the answer.
    That would be a waste of my time, and I don't like that.
    We can only guess, and the guy is not replacing anyone, but constituting all the powers into one fist.
    Till now, there was no one operational commander for the operation, now he was appointed.
    Was it because of the character of the conflict? IDK. dunno
    And as IDK, I won't make any entries that can sound simply stupid if confronted.
    You are a specialist in making stupid claims with no basis, so be my guest  Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Look who is lying again so that he doesn't face reality. lol1

    Even the chechen leader said the previous staff was shit and their entire war was shit.

    They just replaced loosers by a new guy.  That's why they are all happy. Not because this guy proved anything but because the previous staff was shitty and won't ve in charge.
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    Post  franco Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:58 pm

    @Isos - answered you but it got locked down in the switch from #28 thread to #29 thread and I don't have the time to redo it...
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    Post  billybatts91 Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:00 pm

    Very good interactive map of the conflict to follow -

    https://soar.earth/maps/13466?pos=48.85066143383509%2C33.2219995182818%2C6.70
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    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:25 pm

    Well the front has defenitly improved.

    As for the chechen leader, lets be real here, he has an image to keep up, politics are always in play.

    My view is that this has less to do with the staff, and more to with the kremlin making foolish demands of the staff.
    And now that the stupidity of these demands have been made clear to the public, in order to protect the kremlin, the staff takes the blame.
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    Post  Isos Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:27 pm

    They understood how to use those damn drones.




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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:07 pm

    NATO is supposedly expediting sending jammers to Ukr to defeat the Iranian drones. Any opinions on whether they may succeed at this?

    Depends how they work... are the HATO jammers optimised for Iranian drones... and if they are what if the Russian made versions use Russian datalinks and communications/navigation systems that the HATO jammers might not be designed for use against?

    These jammers would need to be very widely deployed to be useful so any Russian advance would lead to their compromise which I am sure Russia and Iran would both be interested in looking at... both to modify their own jammers and of course upgrade their drones to make the jammers ineffective.

    it has INS as well as satellite. In such case will be able to detect spoofing and if completely jammed can still complete the mission with slightly less accuracy.

    Even more fun they could programme half of their drones to start to fly erratically when they detect the jammers but the erratic flying can be used to pin point the jammer by flying one way and then another and then climbing etc etc.... once it has located the jammer accurately enough it could fly towards and hit the jammer.

    Tons of evidences where they (both sides) are dropping IEDs from the drones at tanks. In the best case scenario those carry 50-100g of explosives. Yet they do. Sure those can't penetrate the armor, but can kill the comm, destroy or damage the FCS cupola/elements, jamm something etc.
    If something is stupid yet works, it ain't stupid, you know

    Even if you do it all the time it can have a wearing effect that really stresses people out... but I would prefer to see them using custom designed weapons for the job rather than ad hoc things that might just annoy much of the time.

    It has been a problem with other drones too often it looks flashy and people on the interweb think it is cool and has now killed that tank, but it is obvious some time it is more a nuisance than anything else.

    It takes energy and effort and time and money to deliver those small bombs so why not make them more effective... I mean things like those stake mines... POMZ... the HE payload and fragmentation component could be integrated into some sort of tail fins and impact fuse... 40mm grenades with a small bounding charge to blow the grenade back up 1.5 to 2 metres in the air where the main charge explodes and scatters fragments around the place... that sort of thing which is simple and cheap and creates very effective airburst explosives...

    Drones can have internal guidance , very cheaply , not even INS , to be effective

    the computing power in a cell phone is plenty to allow intertial navigation without external updates needed, but GLONASS and other signals can be used for rough approximation of fixing your location in flight without emitting anything yourself... and when you get to the target area you have a camera so having an image of the target at a fixed location means your cell phone level computer on board can search the target coordinates for the target and recognise it and hit it very very accurately without any need for a datalink or communication of any kind, though obviously broadcasting its video view of the attack would be useful to determine if the target is hit... and follow up views can confirm if follow up hits are needed or not.

    Elon stops financing the Starlink operations in 404, and asked Pentagon to pay the bills from now on.

    Is it only me, or the guy really went through some metamorphosis?

    He has teeth marks on his hand, but the pro Orc lobby probably has not learned their lesson yet.

    also Elon talked to Putin in private before he put out the tweets

    He tweeted that he did not talk to Putin, even though some news agencies speculated that he might have.... who to believe.

    c) He just wants to make a good profit; after all he is a businessman, and he simply sees opportunity to receive a portion of the billions poured into Ukraine.

    The 80 million the system cost to roll out in Ukraine was not paid for, so he took that as a loss... now it seems he wants the pentagon to pay that tab... and I understand fully why.

    Would be amusing if he bought Twitter and then got rid of all the western propaganda bots and put Trump and all the republicans back on...

    BTW awesome response Musk... to the Ukrainian Ambassador that told him to leave in very undiplomatic terms....

    The current "fall out" with NATzO by Russia was inevitable.

    Putin tried everything he could to accommodate the west, but the west was not looking for a partner, they wanted a colony... a resource they could exploit to maintain their comfortable lifestyles... unfortunately the cost to keep a large middle class happy is exactly the same price as the cost to make the 1% slightly richer, and we know which roses got the premium fertiliser these last few decades...

    You are right, the video is ambiguous enough that it could be staged.

    You could say no no no... there is no way the Orcs would risk their own men in such propaganda... but of course they would... in a heart beat... over and over and over.

    Those Iranian drones seem very effective but with a good AD system like Tugunska and Pantsir I think it should be easy to shoot them down without missiles, just firing rounds (they fly very slowly): this makes their interception pretty inexpensive.
    Don't Ukranians have any Tugunksa left?

    They showed video of a couple of dozen in what appeared to be open storage burned up in an apparent attempt to pretend they were Russian vehicles that had been destroyed by the Ukraine.

    Ironically they likely had the 30mm ammo, but would not have had any production capacity for the missiles, and AFAIK the vehicles would require parts from Belarus or Russia to keep running...

    Air burst 30mm cannon shells would be ideal. Gepard shells with AHEAD rounds should also be effective but with standard shells you would fire a lot of rounds for a direct hit because of their small size relatively.

    There has to be a recognition of new territorial boundaries, guarantees of access through to Pridnestrovie, and military neutrality with no foreign troops or bases for the Ukraine.

    The current regime might sign that but what is that worth... next election someone gets elected promising to fix everything the way it was before and wins in a landslide...

    I higly doubt if Gepard old radar is even capable to find&track this kind of target.
    It is a 60s technology for Gods sake.

    With optical tracking they should get close enough for AHEAD type rounds to be effective... but AHEAD rounds wont be cheap or plentiful.

    They are a tricky target.

    And with the number of those provided by the Germans, they can do shit about a mass strikes.
    I guess the most effective way of using them would be ground support rather than air defenc

    That is a problem too... they simply wont have enough to protect everything and would struggle to shoot down drones that do come close without AHEAD rounds.

    I've called Isos & Sujoy a "dick" in the past because they couldn't get a simple point, but in hindsight I realize that English is not their first language either which explains their poor comprehension and average writing skills.

    But you are American so you can use the same excuse...

    My view is that this has less to do with the staff, and more to with the kremlin making foolish demands of the staff.
    And now that the stupidity of these demands have been made clear to the public, in order to protect the kremlin, the staff takes the blame.

    The Kremlin has more balls to keep in the air than the Armed forces does.... a hammer just wants to drive nails in to things... a builder knows that nails cost money and driving nails into wood for no reason is a waste of time and effort... and the builder also knows you can't nail glass or ceramic tiles... you have to treat them differently.

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