Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23

PhSt wrote:Where is the FOABs? Start Bombing all critical infrastructures in Pukraine already! Bomb all powerplants, water stations, make the entire Pukranian nation suffer from starvation! This is a War of Extermination and the Russian MOD needs to understand that!

Let's leave the Nazi tactics to the Ukrainians

Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

billybatts91 wrote:This retreat from Kharkov is reminding me of the retreat from Kiev a few months back. I don't understand the point of this SMO anymore. Is the point for Russia to embarrass itself and look weak on the world stage? Are they even truly trying to win this war anymore? WTF is going on?

It's the decision of stubborn politcians!!! Especially a politician who has mostly made very good decisions but does not want to see a change in his previous military course in Ukraine.

Either the Russian army is really just a paper tiger and the soldiers run at the first opportunity if they even hear gunshots, but that is very, very unrealistic. Or someone doesn't want to use the full potential of the army because they think that too many casualties would lead to uprisings and ultimately regime change in Moscow.

Russia deploys only a fraction of its armed forces in Ukraine, but internationally it looks like the entire Russian army will be wiped out. Russia makes a joke of itself internationally. If opponents want to harm Russia, they do it now. NATO is encouraged to get even more involved than it has done so far.

The first days of operation in Ukraine were perfect! Even if you look at the losses in relation, there were of course many painful losses but they were limited. Russia then made the mistake of not making a pause and replenishing territorial gains with reserves, but fleeing the northern territories. But precisely guaranteeing security in the hinterland is a good job for conscripts. They are not involved in heavy combat, but only in support roles. At the moment everything has to be managed by volunteer associations, temporary and professional soldiers. And only 50,000 soldiers more or less can decisively influence the course of the war.

It looks like the tactic of Russian Army will not change! No reinforcements, no mobilization, no conscripts! With maneuver warfare like in the beginning of the operation they could win Nikolaev, Krivy Rog, Kharkov in only 3 weeks...and with only a fraction of the losses compared to the start of the conflict.

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Well where's your proof that this will turn around and anybody should be optimistic now? Putin and Co. have not done what is necessary in this entire war, why would they change now all of a sudden after so many losses?

billybatts91 wrote:This retreat from Kharkov is reminding me of the retreat from Kiev a few months back. I don't understand the point of this SMO anymore. Is the point for Russia to embarrass itself and look weak on the world stage? Are they even truly trying to win this war anymore? WTF is going on?

Retreat from Kiev made sense as their supply lines for the eastern side of the theatre were too long and they didn't control roads well. This is completely different situation. Why leave part of the Kharkov oblast in the north? It's very close to Russia and easy to resupply. Also, to the west of Volchansk amd Velikiy Burluk you have reservoir on Severskiy Donets.

flamming_python wrote:
Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fair and reasonable person, but from my observation, this "Humanitarian" tactic by Russia is not helping them win this war. I don't know about you, but for me ANY type of method is acceptable as long as the Ends are met.

billybatts91 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Well where's your proof that this will turn around and anybody should be optimistic now? Putin and Co. have not done what is necessary in this entire war, why would they change now all of a sudden after so many losses?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the fact Lugansk was entirely liberated and most of Kherson is still under Russian control when back in February Russia didn't hold a single spot of it with Kherson gonna hold its own elections eventually.

But you know better than Russian MoD so I guess you made your mind already anyway.

GarryB, I'll ask again, can this thread be locked?

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Is it a FREE forum for discussing the specific topic? "Russian special military operation in Ukraine"

Azi wrote:

billybatts91 wrote:This retreat from Kharkov is reminding me of the retreat from Kiev a few months back. I don't understand the point of this SMO anymore. Is the point for Russia to embarrass itself and look weak on the world stage? Are they even truly trying to win this war anymore? WTF is going on?

It's the decision of stubborn politcians!!! Especially a politician who has mostly made very good decisions but does not want to see a change in his previous military course in Ukraine.

Either the Russian army is really just a paper tiger and the soldiers run at the first opportunity if they even hear gunshots, but that is very, very unrealistic. Or someone doesn't want to use the full potential of the army because they think that too many casualties would lead to uprisings and ultimately regime change in Moscow.

Russia deploys only a fraction of its armed forces in Ukraine, but internationally it looks like the entire Russian army will be wiped out. Russia makes a joke of itself internationally. If opponents want to harm Russia, they do it now. NATO is encouraged to get even more involved than it has done so far.

The first days of operation in Ukraine were perfect! Even if you look at the losses in relation, there were of course many painful losses but they were limited. Russia then made the mistake of not making a pause and replenishing territorial gains with reserves, but fleeing the northern territories. But precisely guaranteeing security in the hinterland is a good job for conscripts. They are not involved in heavy combat, but only in support roles. At the moment everything has to be managed by volunteer associations, temporary and professional soldiers. And only 50,000 soldiers more or less can decisively influence the course of the war.

It looks like the tactic of Russian Army will not change! No reinforcements, no mobilization, no conscripts! With maneuver warfare like in the beginning of the operation they could win Nikolaev, Krivy Rog, Kharkov in only 3 weeks...and with only a fraction of the losses compared to the start of the conflict.

Biggest Russian failure is failing to take more of the Ukraine initially. Putting part of their trust in the rotten Ukrainian political class. They wasted time negotiating with retired politicians in Bucha, coming to deals with oligarchs in Kharkov, etc...
Only place it worked was in Kherson.
More effort should have been spent securing these places; Kharkov, Zaporozhie at the least.

Loss of the Moskva was also a serious embarrassment and failure.

And tactics of first few days, with far too stringent rules of engagement - although I understand why it was done.

But as for everything else, taking it nice and slow, I have no objections. Nor about taking advantage of superior mobility and complete freedom of movement unharnessed by air-power to come and go as convenient, including as now drawing in the enemy or setting the terms as to where their forces will be confronted and how.

caveat emptor wrote:

billybatts91 wrote:This retreat from Kharkov is reminding me of the retreat from Kiev a few months back. I don't understand the point of this SMO anymore. Is the point for Russia to embarrass itself and look weak on the world stage? Are they even truly trying to win this war anymore? WTF is going on?

Retreat from Kiev made sense as their supply lines for the eastern side of the theatre were too long and they didn't control roads well. This is completely different situation. Why leave part of the Kharkov oblast in the north? It's very close to Russia and easy to resupply. Also, to the west of Volchansk amd Velikiy Burluk you have reservoir on Severskiy Donets.

It's almost like Putin wants to wind this war down and focus on Donetsk and Kherson? But here's the thing, Ukraine and NATO will not stop. They're gonna go after everything and soon even Crimea. So retreating and giving up territory at this point is fucking stupid and suicide for Russia on the world stage. What will China, Iran and India think of their friend now, if this turns into some sort of rout inf favor of Ukraine? I doubt they'll want to be too friendly with such a loser like that. I hope Russia has some tricks up its sleaves, but I'm not seeing it. I have a bad feeling like Russian leadership is not interested in pushing deep into Ukraine anymore and going on the offensives and are content with maybe just defending Donetsk and Kherson. Big mistake imo.

PhSt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fair and reasonable person, but from my observation, this "Humanitarian" tactic by Russia is not helping them win this war. I don't know about you, but for me ANY type of method is acceptable as long as the Ends are met.

Not every method...respect the Geneva Conventions and that's it! You don't have to be more papal than the Pope.

Azi wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Is it a FREE forum for discussing the specific topic? "Russian special military operation in Ukraine"

No, because dumb fucks like you who seem to think you know what's happening keep harping on and actually flooding this thread with trash.

Honestly I wish people like yourself would go fight on the frontline already instead of constantly crying over and over again flooding this thread. Like Papa said, crying won't help. You going to fight will.

Alright, hope to see you on front lines soldier.

sepheronx wrote:

Azi wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Is it a FREE forum for discussing the specific topic? "Russian special military operation in Ukraine"

No, because dumb fucks like you who seem to think you know what's happening keep harping on and actually flooding this thread with trash.

Honestly  I wish people like yourself would go fight on the frontline already instead of constantly crying over and over again flooding this thread.  Like Papa said, crying won't help. You going to fight will.

Alright, hope to see you on front lines soldier.

Ok oh infinitely wise one: whats the logic in the russians completely abandoning kharkov oblast and moving to donbass?

PhSt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fair and reasonable person, but from my observation, this "Humanitarian" tactic by Russia is not helping them win this war. I don't know about you, but for me ANY type of method is acceptable as long as the Ends are met.

What if those methods are having to pull back to fight another day?

Ever thought of that?

sepheronx wrote:

Azi wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Is it a FREE forum for discussing the specific topic? "Russian special military operation in Ukraine"

No, because dumb fucks like you who seem to think you know what's happening keep harping on and actually flooding this thread with trash.

Honestly  I wish people like yourself would go fight on the frontline already instead of constantly crying over and over again flooding this thread.  Like Papa said, crying won't help. You going to fight will.

Alright, hope to see you on front lines soldier.

Seems like your dumbass doesn't want to live in reality. You'd rather lie to yourself than live in truth.

sepheronx wrote:

Azi wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Is it a FREE forum for discussing the specific topic? "Russian special military operation in Ukraine"

No, because dumb fucks like you who seem to think you know what's happening keep harping on and actually flooding this thread with trash.

Honestly  I wish people like yourself would go fight on the frontline already instead of constantly crying over and over again flooding this thread.  Like Papa said, crying won't help. You going to fight will.

Alright, hope to see you on front lines soldier.

And dumb fucks like you knows whats going on there? To flee the whole Kharkov region is a good decision? How many russian soldiers died here to liberate these territories? I think many thousands of russian soldiers, because Kharkov was one of the hottest spots in the war. And you simply shit on the graves of these heroes! Shame on you!!!

billybatts91 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Azi wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Is it a FREE forum for discussing the specific topic? "Russian special military operation in Ukraine"

No, because dumb fucks like you who seem to think you know what's happening keep harping on and actually flooding this thread with trash.

Honestly  I wish people like yourself would go fight on the frontline already instead of constantly crying over and over again flooding this thread.  Like Papa said, crying won't help. You going to fight will.

Alright, hope to see you on front lines soldier.

Seems like your dumbass doesn't want to live in reality. You'd rather lie to yourself than live in truth.

So exactly where was I wrong again? Oh wait, I wasn't so you are now just showing everyone that still has an ounce of intelligence left you got nothing.

So I'll ask again, where has Ukraine taken Lugansk as example?

sepheronx wrote:

PhSt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fair and reasonable person, but from my observation, this "Humanitarian" tactic by Russia is not helping them win this war. I don't know about you, but for me ANY type of method is acceptable as long as the Ends are met.

What if those methods are having to pull back to fight another day?

Ever thought of that?

That's what clowns like you said when they retreated from Kiev. Kharkov is lost.

Azi wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Azi wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I see this forum has turned into a shitstorm with armchair generals and couch commandos have decided what needs to be done.

I suppose Garry can lock this thread now since Ukraine apparently won the war.  I guess it's over now.

Is it a FREE forum for discussing the specific topic? "Russian special military operation in Ukraine"

No, because dumb fucks like you who seem to think you know what's happening keep harping on and actually flooding this thread with trash.

Honestly  I wish people like yourself would go fight on the frontline already instead of constantly crying over and over again flooding this thread.  Like Papa said, crying won't help. You going to fight will.

Alright, hope to see you on front lines soldier.

And dumb fucks like you knows whats going on there? To flee the whole Kharkov region is a good decision? How many russian soldiers died here to liberate these territories? I think many thousands of russian soldiers, because Kharkov was one of the hottest spots in the war. And you simply shit on the graves of these heroes! Shame on you!!!

Kharkov was taken and lost, twice.

There is a point to that you know.

Like I said, if you think you know better, get packing. Oh wait, you are a pussy and will not fight, but sit and complain.

billybatts91 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

PhSt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fair and reasonable person, but from my observation, this "Humanitarian" tactic by Russia is not helping them win this war. I don't know about you, but for me ANY type of method is acceptable as long as the Ends are met.

What if those methods are having to pull back to fight another day?

Ever thought of that?

That's what clowns like you said when they retreated from Kiev. Kharkov is lost.

I see you don't even bother to respond with what I asked, which means you really don't even know the events happening.

Flaming is right.  Too many armchair generals.

So I'll ask again, if the war is lost already, why are you even here discussing it? You said it's over and lost with DNR and Lugansk gone as Ukraine took it, so why continue to be here?

sepheronx wrote:
What if those methods are having to pull back to fight another day?

Ever thought of that?

I agree with that conclusion. But how do you come from a tactical **** up in the region around Balakleya to this? In a matter of few days? Wasn't there any second line of defense deployed at all?

Lost territories can always be recaptured. Dead soldiers don't have respawn tickets.

And Russia's inflicting at least 10:1 exchanges. Do the math.

lyle6 wrote:Lost territories can always be recaptured. Dead soldiers don't have respawn tickets.

And Russia's inflicting at least 10:1 exchanges. Do the math.

BS

billybatts91 wrote:
BS

I hadn't asked you what you had for breakfast.

sepheronx wrote:
Kharkov was taken and lost, twice.

There is a point to that you know.

Like I said, if you think you know better, get packing. Oh wait, you are a pussy and will not fight, but sit and complain.

Kharkov was not taken twice...BULLSHIT! Russia retreated from northern parts of the city to be out of artillery range...the magic 20 km of Grad systems. The retreat was a bit more of 30 km and later they pushed 10 km forward. They never retreated from areas like Balaklija or Izyum! Especially Izyum is a huge loss, the fight for Izyum was very hard. The towns and villages at russian border are no problem, but Izyum will be a hard nut again, like Bakhmut now.