Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+68
xeno
Dr.Snufflebug
Serberus
walle83
crod
Broski
ludovicense
11E
ALAMO
Azi
Sprut-B
psg
PhSt
Krepost
Scorpius
OminousSpudd
franco
Singular_Transform
billybatts91
calripson
pavi
ATLASCUB
zorobabel
owais.usmani
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
DerWolf
d_taddei2
Ned86
Odin of Ossetia
Stealthflanker
Sujoy
Airbornewolf
Backman
sepheronx
mnztr
SolidarityWithRussia
VARGR198
Erk
thegopnik
Arrow
SeigSoloyvov
nomadski
LMFS
limb
dionis
Firebird
ucmvulcan
AlfaT8
TMA1
GunshipDemocracy
Werewolf
Isos
PapaDragon
Ispan
Hole
Regular
ArgentinaGuard
Belisarius
Mir
Kiko
caveat emptor
Big_Gazza
GarryB
Arkanghelsk
lyle6
JohninMK
flamming_python
kvs
72 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    limb
    limb


    Posts : 1185
    Points : 1211
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  limb Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:32 pm

    Isos wrote:I'm really wondering why the **** they show this when it gives away the range of the r-77-1 which looks by the way very weak. The plane is going at mach 1.3 at high altitude and the ranges are very low meanwhile the target, a su-25, is subsonic.

    They should hurry to produce the r-77M.


    I guess all these months you were wrong with assuring me that the R-77-1 is adequate Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


    TMA1 wrote:The last video released with three r-77-1 missiles released showed the release at around 60 klicks. This is very good. Yes they could probably stretch ut out to 70/80 klicks against a fighter but that would probably fail to connect.

    Everything I've seen of these so far is pretty astounding. They are sounding quite effective. Fighter pilots are almost never going to launch at maximum range unless it is first salvo against a rival who has equal or better weaponry and wishes to spam missiles to cause the enemy to break up and turn to evade

    Edit: had to add a thought

    As I kept saying, these are absolutely pathetic against the  AIM-120D, PL-15 and meteor. Even 110km range is pathetic, especially against nonmaneuverable targets. We have ZERO evidence that there is even a SINGLE R-77M in production, which is highly concerning. Russia is one generation behind in mass production of AAMs. By the time the R-77M arrives in service, China will have a PL-15 successor, meteor will be upgraded and the AIM-260 will be in production.

    Western and chinese AAMs most likely have a NEZ of around 80+km against fighter sized targets.

    This is most likely the fault of retarded penny pinchers in the MoD, and probably lobbying by the air defence troops for funding SAMs, which resulted in neglect in developing adequate AAMs. After all the R-77-1 was put into service in 2015, but it has the performance of AIM-120s from 1999.


    Last edited by limb on Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:40 pm

    How is a 3 kill with R-77-1 inadequate?

    More western fanboys just mad

    The range of R77-1 was shown to be much longer

    That Su35 was close in and scored 3 kills on 1 mig 29 and 2 su25

    it shows excellent parameters, and was an easy kill

    GarryB, psg, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole and like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:41 pm

    limb wrote:
    Isos wrote:I'm really wondering why the **** they show this when it gives away the range of the r-77-1 which looks by the way very weak. The plane is going at mach 1.3 at high altitude and the ranges are very low meanwhile the target, a su-25, is subsonic.

    They should hurry to produce the r-77M.


    I guess all these months you were wrong with assuring me that the R-77-1 is adequate Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


    TMA1 wrote:The last video released with three r-77-1 missiles released showed the release at around 60 klicks. This is very good. Yes they could probably stretch ut out to 70/80 klicks against a fighter but that would probably fail to connect.

    Everything I've seen of these so far is pretty astounding. They are sounding quite effective. Fighter pilots are almost never going to launch at maximum range unless it is first salvo against a rival who has equal or better weaponry and wishes to spam missiles to cause the enemy to break up and turn to evade

    Edit: had to add a thought

    As I kept saying, these are absolutely pathetic against the  AIM-120D, PL-15 and meteor. Even 110km range is pathetic, especially against nonmaneuverable targets. We have ZERO evidence that there is even a SINGLE R-77M in production, which is highly concerning. Russia is one generation behind in mass production of AAMs. By the time the R-77M arrives in service, China will have a PL-15 successor, meteor will be upgraded and the AIM-260 will be in production.

    This is most likely the fault of retarded penny pinchers in the MoD, and probably lobbying by the air defence troops for funding SAMs, which resulted in neglect in developing adequate AAMs. After all the R-77-1 was put into service in 2015, but it has the performance of AIM-120s from 1999.

    You missed the part where none of those vaporware missiles were used in combat

    AIM120 never scored a kill at those ranges, the kills in Iraq were done within 40km as well

    Bunch of western clowns

    Vann derangement syndrome

    Meteor cannot be equated to R77, but R37 which has longer range than all these missiles

    R77 has a performance scope and it performed excellent scoring 3 kills

    Has Meteor even seen combat? Pl15? Lmao


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, flamming_python, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B and like this post

    limb
    limb


    Posts : 1185
    Points : 1211
    Join date : 2020-09-17

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  limb Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:42 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:How is a 3 kill with R-77-1 inadequate?

    More western fanboys just mad

    The range of R77-1 was shown to be much longer

    That Su35 was close in and scored 3 kills on 1 mig 29 and 2 su25

    it shows excellent parameters,  and was an easy kill
    Yes against aircraft from the early 80s. Try that against a Rafale with meteors.
    avatar
    dionis


    Posts : 154
    Points : 155
    Join date : 2012-12-13

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  dionis Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:46 pm


    Yes against aircraft from the early 80s. Try that against a Rafale with meteors.

    All these planes will be swatted out of the sky by mid range SAMs more than anything.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza and Belisarius like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:47 pm

    So much bullshit , Rafale flies in combat simulation only

    Meteor should be used, then we can draw conclusions

    Not just from brochure

    As for AIM120 they were used against 1980 Iraqi Air Force with AWACS guidance

    Gtfo

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs and Belisarius like this post

    avatar
    Belisarius


    Posts : 336
    Points : 336
    Join date : 2022-01-04

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Belisarius Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:50 pm

    oh yes because russia doesn't have the R-37M with 300-400km range...

    GarryB, kvs, LMFS and Hole like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 11763
    Points : 11890
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  JohninMK Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:05 pm

    Trainer on their weapons?

    Russians With Attitude
    @RWApodcast
    ·
    1h
    Swedish media reports that a 28-year-old officer of the Swedish army was killed on the Donetsk front


    GarryB, psg, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, PapaDragon, VARGR198 and like this post

    Werewolf
    Werewolf


    Posts : 5744
    Points : 5941
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Werewolf Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:36 pm

    limb wrote:
    Yes against aircraft from the early 80s. Try that against a Rafale with meteors.

    If you did not notice from the video...

    The first engagement shows that the enemy's aircraft was flying from 9' to 3', meaning the AAM needs to have an aimpoint far infront of it's target. This is by definition chasing a maneuverable aircraft, which burns a lot of fuel in the process. Not a head-on launch, which the maximum range of AAMs is always advertized as.

    The second engagement shows that the target's range indicator isn't changing even a bit. That is proof that the enemy was fleeing.
    A chasing missile will never reach its maximum engagement range on the HUD display even if it would cover that advertized distance.

    I have already shown where the range and target's range indicators are. Even you should be able to read a display with instructions.


    Like Isos already said, the actual real-world ranges of such weapons are lower than what is advertized, let alone the decision of Pilot and Commander if he gets confirmition and authorization to launch or not. All that takes time which directly translates to getting closer to the target.

    I have an impression you start to play dumb like RTN.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, LMFS, Hole, Mir and Belisarius like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:38 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Trainer on their weapons?

    Russians With Attitude
    @RWApodcast
    ·
    1h
    Swedish media reports that a 28-year-old officer of the Swedish army was killed on the Donetsk front



    Probably showing how to operate Carl Gustav, as well as other Swedish weaponry they said they were giving robot 17 Ashm maybe they also were completing NASAMS deal with Ukrainian air force

    **** them, waste them in the outhouse

    GarryB, flamming_python, Big_Gazza, Belisarius and Urluber like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 34883
    Points : 35401
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:47 pm

    Are the Su-27SM, Su-27SM3 and Su-34 not R-77 capable?

    They are, but how many were in service in the 1990s or early 2000s?

    The Su-27SM didn't start to enter service till the middle of the 2000s and they hardly flowed into service in enormous numbers... many parts of the RVV-AE being Ukrainian so most of those bought were for export only.

    I hope that they will really get several hundred drones.

    I hope they start working together on developing drones... Russia has lots of things that would improve Iranian drones and I am sure Iran has experience the Russians would benefit from too.

    I guess all these months you were wrong with assuring me that the R-77-1 is adequate

    They seemed to have killed the targets they were fired at... what were you expecting in terms of adequacy?

    As I kept saying, these are absolutely pathetic against the AIM-120D, PL-15 and meteor.

    The kill performance for those missiles is largely marketing BS and propaganda isn't it?

    Even 110km range is pathetic, especially against nonmaneuverable targets. We have ZERO evidence that there is even a SINGLE R-77M in production, which is highly concerning. Russia is one generation behind in mass production of AAMs. By the time the R-77M arrives in service, China will have a PL-15 successor, meteor will be upgraded and the AIM-260 will be in production.

    I understand all the many kills by PL-15 and AMRAAM and of course the hundreds of kills by Meteor is putting these kills by R-77s to shame but by all means talk us through how greater range makes a missile so much better.

    Western and chinese AAMs most likely have a NEZ of around 80+km against fighter sized targets.

    Only 80km.... why not a million kms?

    This is most likely the fault of retarded penny pinchers in the MoD, and probably lobbying by the air defence troops for funding SAMs, which resulted in neglect in developing adequate AAMs. After all the R-77-1 was put into service in 2015, but it has the performance of AIM-120s from 1999.

    The fact that you can say that tells me not to listen to anything you say.

    But humour me... how many R-77s have the Russians used in this conflict and how many aircraft have been shot down as a result of those launches?

    What is their kill rate?

    Don't know?

    But it is still a bad missile?

    Hmmm... interesting.

    The range of R77-1 was shown to be much longer

    Using any AAM at max range is an act of desperation and never a smart thing to do... it alerts the enemy and gives them their best chances of evading the missile.

    Yes against aircraft from the early 80s. Try that against a Rafale with meteors.

    Well they can't because the French and HATO refuse to man up and fight... they prefer to send weapons and ammo and hide behind the Ukrainians.

    Last superpower and the most powerful military grouping on the planet and too afraid to send fighter planes towards Russia...

    How many Meteors do they even have in service anyway... if they joined the fight how long would they last?

    Big_Gazza, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    LMFS
    LMFS


    Posts : 4995
    Points : 4995
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  LMFS Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:33 pm

    Oh my... let yet more of those Western Wunderwaffen try their luck against MiG-31 and we will see what the NEZ of their missiles is, compared to the respective value for R-37 that will be hunting them Embarassed

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 2123
    Points : 2133
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  nomadski Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:57 pm

    Any Russian Air to Air missile has Nuclear or Emp warhead ? Most of these considerations will then become irrelevant . Americans had some . I wonder if they still have them ? I would arm with nukes now . Particularly the SAM to be used in Russian territory . Same with AA missiles over Russian territory !
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3258
    Points : 3240
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:00 pm

    nomadski wrote:Any Russian Air to Air missile has Nuclear or Emp warhead ? Most of these considerations will then become irrelevant . Americans had some . I wonder if they still have them ? I would arm with nukes now . Particularly the SAM to be used in Russian territory . Same with AA missiles over Russian territory  !

    A nuclear air to air missile scratch

    There is no reason you'd need such a thing

    Werewolf likes this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:15 pm

    https://t.me/swodki/135847?single

    Fighter got downed, hope it's not ours
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 2411
    Points : 2415
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Mir Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:16 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    nomadski wrote:Any Russian Air to Air missile has Nuclear or Emp warhead ? Most of these considerations will then become irrelevant . Americans had some . I wonder if they still have them ? I would arm with nukes now . Particularly the SAM to be used in Russian territory . Same with AA missiles over Russian territory  !

    A nuclear air to air missile scratch

    There is no reason you'd need such a thing

    The US had both a guided and an unguided nuclear tipped air to air missiles. The AIM-26 Falcon and the AIR-2 Genie (unguided rocket).

    GarryB likes this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:17 pm

    https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/15107

    Ukrainians boasting its su35

    Hope not some saying drone, others missile
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 2411
    Points : 2415
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Mir Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:20 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/15107

    Ukrainians boasting its su35

    Hope not some saying drone, others missile

    Don't see any parachute?
    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 1748
    Points : 1742
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arrow Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:28 pm

    One more movie.

    https://t.me/milinfolive/87331
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:30 pm

    https://t.me/milinfolive/87334

    Yea SAR working, still no word
    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 1748
    Points : 1742
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arrow Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:38 pm

    Probably friendly fire.
    https://m.vk.com/video-123538639_456286838
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 8000
    Points : 7988
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 46
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Hole Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:50 pm

    https://thesaker.is/on-liberating-europe/

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/because-they-are-incompetent.html

    GarryB and LMFS like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 2573
    Points : 2575
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:53 pm

    Looks like it was Su35, not good , a su34 then su35 within a day of each other

    Even if it was friendly fire, it's not good at all

    * edit some said it was su34, but only 1 pilot is seen

    Isos likes this post

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 10251
    Points : 10237
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Isos Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:31 pm

    Friendly fire it seems. I wonder if it is not some system given to Donbass separatists. Or worse Ukro cracked their IFF which is doubtfull since they change it every hour or so.

    Too bad to loose 2 sukhoi in 2 days.

    They need more strike drones and desperatly need the Checkmate to be mass produced.
    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1287
    Points : 1289
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  caveat emptor Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:34 pm

    Isos wrote:Friendly fire it seems. I wonder if it is not some system given to Donbass separatists. Or worse Ukro cracked their IFF which is doubtfull since they change it every hour or so.

    Too bad to loose 2 sukhoi in 2 days.

    They need more strike drones and desperatly need the Checkmate to be mass produced.
    I was thinking the same thing. LDPR got Buk-M1 systems recently. Might be lack of training or something.

    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 4 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:25 pm